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Old 07-10-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
Ravens1991
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Default how come great players arent great coaches?

This has always been the case, yes Ditka was able to be a HOF TE and an amazing coach but that is rarely the case in the rest of the NFL. People always say this but they never seem to say why great players always fail as coaches.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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A lot of great players had great talent. That can't be taught or coached. It is something natural. Thus, they don't always have the ability to coach up players or notice the little things about other players. They never needed it themselves.
Great players who had to bust their ass to be great players will always make for better coaches IMO.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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I always kind of thought that the great players were too great and they'll expect everyone to be just like them. I can't imagine Peyton Manning trying to coach say, David Carr without losing his patience.

To be a coach at any level, you need to have patience and a lot of players may not have that.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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did you just diss Brodie?
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Coaching is a unique talent and requires the right blend of interpersonal, diagnostic, tactical and motivational skills to be successful.

Many great players are team leaders and inspirational figures by default simply because of their dominant play on the field, not because they possess any unique leadership qualities.

Anyway, most great players don't get into coaching; what HOFer really wants to start over at the bottom as a position coach and work his way up after 10 years, if he's lucky, to HC??

I don't think most of the greats have the humility or ego to handle the transition.

Now there are great position coaches, ( Russ Grimm/Joe Greene/Kevin Greene etc.) who were superstars as players.

Maybe one day one of these guys will break through.

And don't count out Singletary; he's a QB away from building a consistent playoff contender in SF.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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did you just diss Brodie?
Huh, what, huh?
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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A lot of great players had great talent. That can't be taught or coached. It is something natural. ...

Great players who had to bust their ass to be great players will always make for better coaches IMO.

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Coaching is a unique talent and requires the right blend of interpersonal, diagnostic, tactical and motivational skills to be successful.
I think both of you hit on some important points here. Talented players may lack the ability to verbally explain what they understand about their skill because of the fact that they are naturally inclined towards being able to learn a said skill or understand a certain concept. Also, some great players certainly lack the intra-personal skills needed to be an effective coach.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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They are completely different skill sets. To understand your role and execute it very well has very little to do with managing an organization and the expectations that arise.

Some players can cross over, but I think people too often think that all it takes to coach football is to understand the strategic side and not be socially inept, which is a gross simplification of the job.

edit -
That's not even to start talking about the large difference between being a head coach and a coordinator or assistant.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I always kind of thought that the great players were too great and they'll expect everyone to be just like them. I can't imagine Peyton Manning trying to coach say, David Carr without losing his patience.

To be a coach at any level, you need to have patience and a lot of players may not have that.
This...kind of. But not with patience. The best thing I can compare it to in my own life is directing musicals. The best actors/actresses I have worked with or been in shows with make lousy directors. I was never an exceptional on stage performer, but I worked my butt off to do a great job. I direct (and some have told me well).

When you have the natural talent of something, it is tough to figure out the strategies to get the people you are coaching/directing to do it. It comes naturally to you. For those it doesn't, they need to know HOW to get there. Naturally talented people don't know HOW to get there, they just are. The second tier and third tier talents had to figure out how to get there, sometimes trying numerous ways to accomplish it, and thus is translates to coaching/directing.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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What are you talking about, Mike Tice is a great coach!
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Knowledge
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Ability to work well with others
attention to detail
Ability to manage players
Organization ( schedule and meetings)
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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i dunno that that's necessarily always true. i think that, like playing, coaching can come naturally to some people. some people are able to just talk about the how or why in a manner others can follow easily. for instance, i teach snowboarding in the winter. some of our instructors, in spite of not being able to ski/ride a lick, can really easily tell someone else how to do it. some of the best guys/girls i've gone out with have no idea where to even start explaining the technical parts of something, or can't deal with teaching someone with a different learning style (visual/auditory/sensory).

high levels of natural ability may be correlated with a lower ability to translate that to someone else, but there isn't necessarily causation. the two are, imo, completely distinct skillsets.
That's actually a pretty fair point. It's kind of like how people are (or try to be) natural leaders. It's like teaching in a way. The smartest kids in school usually couldn't tutor or teach you.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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This...kind of. But not with patience. The best thing I can compare it to in my own life is directing musicals. The best actors/actresses I have worked with or been in shows with make lousy directors. I was never an exceptional on stage performer, but I worked my butt off to do a great job. I direct (and some have told me well).

When you have the natural talent of something, it is tough to figure out the strategies to get the people you are coaching/directing to do it. It comes naturally to you. For those it doesn't, they need to know HOW to get there. Naturally talented people don't know HOW to get there, they just are. The second tier and third tier talents had to figure out how to get there, sometimes trying numerous ways to accomplish it, and thus is translates to coaching/directing.
I recall seeing an interview with Dan Marino...probably around the time he got into the HoF....and he was asked if he would ever think of getting into coaching, maybe coach QBs or be an OC.

And he said no, and his reasoning was similar to what you have there. He said something about how it just came naturally to him, and he didn't know if he'd be able to actually teach it to another person.

I think that's a big part of it. Some great players could also explain it....some just can't.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Nowadays great players don't coach as much because as far as they are concerned, there is little or no money in it. Fans in Cleveland have been desperate to get Bernie Kosar on the sideline as a quarterback coach, but short of being an offensive coordinator, which is not going to happen right out of the shoot, the money just isn't there and Kosar was only a decent quarterback.

So, for players to coach now, they have to have a burning desire to do so like Mike Singletary or Ken Norton Jr. or Bryan Cox who are willing to put in the time as positional coaches and work their way up.

Otto Graham was one of the best quarterbacks ever and was a great coordinator too for the Redskins with Sonny Jurgensen. Are John Elway or Joe Montana or Dan Marino ever going to do that? No chance
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Being able to deal with different Egos is not an easy task for many to be able to do. Players that are detailed oriented make the best coaches imo.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning will be the coach of the Vols the day he retires from the Colts. That'll be awesome.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Peyton and Ray Lewis are two players IMO who would be awesome coaches at some point, but I doubt either will do so.

Pro football is too much of a grind to start over again as an assistant coach.

If Mike SIngletary had the bank account of Ray Lewis, I don't think he'd be in the coaching game either.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Peyton could succeed because he is a true student of the game and perfectionist.
He has the ability to notice nuances a lot of people dont have.
I could see Ray doing it to stay in the game. He always seemed like a football lifer to me.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Coaches work very long hours on positional work for what is practically no money for the first few years. It is a major grind that stars will feel has little impact and ins't worth their time or ability. If they do really well they will make more but nothing compared to how much they made before.

You see it a lot more in the NBA because former players are sometimes just handed the head coaching job with no prior experience. You'd see stars become coaches way more if they were handed OC/DC or head coach right from the start.
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