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Old 07-16-2010, 11:58 PM    (permalink
Job
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
For those of you wondering when all this ridiculousness started, it was pretty much with Michael Vick. Peyton Manning and Tim Couch received $8 and $7 million per year, including 11.6 and 12.5 million bonus respectively.

Fast-forward two years, Michael Vick is getting over $10 million per year. Then it got even worse with Eli Manning. He got $9 million per year, but his guaranteed money doubled what Carson Palmer got the season before to 20 million.
Are you somehow arguing that Peyton and Couch's contracts weren't ridiculous to start with?
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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I can't see how the vets like this so I'd have to think they'd go along with the owners to create a rookie pay scale.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Agreed, the NFL needs a rookie wage scale desperately.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Am I the only one who thought Bradford was getting a music contract after reading the title?
yes, because he capitalized 'record' for some reason.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Are you guys actually surprised? This should be expected, they didn't implement a Rookie Wage Scale this year and the contracts are just going to keep going higher without it.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Alright. He may be one hell of a QB prospect.

But he's now worth it at all.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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The worst part of this is that, the rams might have been able to avoid some of this if they'd done their contract stuff before the draft. They could have offered Suh and Bradford the same contract and see if either of them would accept it. Pit them against each other and hope to drive the price down. Once they made their pick they lost all their leverage.

Regarding the rookie wage scale, my best idea is to use a percentage of the total salary cap. 1st pick gets 6% of the total cap ($7.2M a year on a $120M cap), 2nd pick gets 5.9%, and you can estimate the rest from there. By the 2nd round, it should be down to 1%.

Along with this, the rookie contracts should be shorter, so that the late first round picks aren't locked into a long-term low-pay contract (Chris Johnson). Perhaps as low as 3 years once the late 1st round happens, allowing teams to work with them as RFA's. Of course this is all pending what the new CBA looks like.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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No player is worth this much, but it's what the NFL is coming too!
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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No player is worth this much, but it's what the NFL is coming too!
Uh, no. I'm pretty much some guys like CJ and Revis are.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Uh, no. I'm pretty much some guys like CJ and Revis are.
Yeah but they didn't get picked first overall and who knew they would bow up like that?
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Uh, no. I'm pretty much some guys like CJ and Revis are.
Great players yeah, but no player should earn $50mil guaranteed. It's absolutely ridiculous.

It's just the way business is going now.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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I previously posted this in a different thread. I believe it would solve a bunch of issues, overpaying rookies (Jamrcus Russell), underpaying top players with bad contracts (Chris Johnson). It's a win win. Teams aren't set back years by drafting the wrong guy, players can escalate their contracts more than 3-5% a year if they preform. Players would earn what they are worth. What a novel idea.

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I agree with you 100% and I think its more than "a good chance" that Eric Berry is the highest paid Safety ever. His signing bonus alone, for being a top 5 pick, will put him in a different stratosphere.

As far as rookies getting paid what they are worth, I think baseball has it the best. Here is what I would do. Combine the best parts from the NBA and MLB and make it best for the NFL. You have a certain number of manditory years that a drafted player spends with a team that drafts him (the NFL can makeup their own length of time 4-6 years most likely). The player is given a "signing bonus" based upon the selection he was drafted (being the #1 overall pick should count for more than the #27 overall). The bonus is nowhere near what they receive today, but it is a nice payday. Your 1st years salary is based upon draft slot. Every following year, your salary is negotiated by the player and team based upon performance and players of like positions and stats salary. If a negotiated salary can't be agreed upon, then an arbitrator is brought in to determine the worth of a player based upon performance and like players of the position. After the determined time of indenturement (4-6 years) is over, the player becomes an unrestricted free-agent is is free to sign with any team for any price. The new CBA may allow teams to use franchise tags or transition tags and all those rules would apply to unrestricted free-agent players and the original team that drafted them.

I think this is the best way for everyone. Teams don't waste money on players that don't perform (JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith) and gets players that out perform their draft slot (CJ, Jared Allen) the money they earned.

The only arguement I could see agianst it would be how a team would have to adjust their salary cap every year based upon players performance. To me, it would be pretty easy. Take the Titans and CJ for example. CJ is clearly worth more than he is being paid and the Titans know that. If his performance dictated that he would be paid more, they would have a good idea what that amount would be 1 year ahead of when the payment would be due. Plus, players like Vince Young would be paid less than the rookie contract he signed and the teams payroll would almost even itself out. My plan would also due away with the NFLs arbitrary rookie salary cap that they impose on each team every year.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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yes, because he capitalized 'record' for some reason.
Well, in the title of something, you're supposed to capitalize all of the key words.....
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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It's easy. Just ban money from the NFL and start paying players with bacon.

I tried.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Well, in the title of something, you're supposed to capitalize all of the key words.....
You mean like 'get'? Or should it read Bradford to Receive Record Deal?

:D
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Of course these deals are ridiculous. Every #1 pick since Eli Manning has had me cringe in a similar way. Like others have suggested, the rookie wage scale can't come fast enough. I think Bradford will be a very good player but he'd have to reach the very top of his potential to warrant such money. I must say, though, that Quarterback is the only position I'd even consider deserving of this money... Meaning I think this deal would look far more crazy with Ndamukog Suh or Gerald McCoy's name attached. So, unless they fix this problem within a year, I believe we'll continue to see #1 picks at Quarterback regardless of the team's absolute, most-pressing needs.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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The worst part of this is that, the rams might have been able to avoid some of this if they'd done their contract stuff before the draft. They could have offered Suh and Bradford the same contract and see if either of them would accept it. Pit them against each other and hope to drive the price down. Once they made their pick they lost all their leverage.
They lost all leverage when they started sucking and couldn't get a QB.

The difference between a franchise QB and a franchise DT is simple: potential super bowl contender in 3-4 years versus 8-8 over the next 10 and no hope of getting a top pick to get a chance at that top tier QB.

Suh was the wrong pick even if Bradford busts. Throughout the NFL, very few teams ever win games without QBs.
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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It's easy. Just ban money from the NFL and start paying players with bacon.

I tried.
Then Sam Bradford would be on the verge of being awarded the most bacon-rich contract in NFL history.
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Then Sam Bradford would be on the verge of being awarded the most bacon-rich contract in NFL history.
10 million pigs in bacon.

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Old 07-17-2010, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is not even that good of a QB. This is wrong.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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You realize that if the rookies don't get the money, then no one does right? The owners aren't going to drop ticket prices or reduce commercial time or spread the money around. They'll pocket every penny they save and get that much richer while these players make them bank.

If there was some sort of compromise to lower ticket costs as they lower rookie salaries I would be all for it. But as it stands now, I would much rather let these players get an opportunity at the money then let it float back into the owner's pockets.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:05 AM    (permalink
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The reason this is spiraling out of control is because the #1 pick this year never takes the same or less than the #1 last year, and when you combine that with unregulated numbers, it's natural for control to be lost eventually. It's like an exponential rate of growth.

Each year the #1 team had been doing what it takes to sign their guy (well, most teams did). On their own, they're not so bad, but together they multiplied until we get to this point. Events like Eli's, where the Giants basically played their hand and obviously desperately wanted the guy, made it easy to up the price significantly (they wouldn't trade like they did and then let a holdout occur).

It's been growing so quickly relative to NFL veteran contracts because every year there is a #1 draft pick, but only a handful of vets get a new contract in any given offseason, and only a handful of those set any benchmarks

If NFL contracts were redone every offseason for every player, then naturally the rookie deals wouldn't look so big. That would achieve a better balance, but obviously the practical solution is rookie contract slotting.

Last edited by OzTitan : 07-18-2010 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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You realize that if the rookies don't get the money, then no one does right? The owners aren't going to drop ticket prices or reduce commercial time or spread the money around. They'll pocket every penny they save and get that much richer while these players make them bank.

If there was some sort of compromise to lower ticket costs as they lower rookie salaries I would be all for it. But as it stands now, I would much rather let these players get an opportunity at the money then let it float back into the owner's pockets.
Um.....false. The way CBA's have worked in the past, and likely will continue to work with a few minor changes, is that owners have to spend so much on the players. The old "salary floor" that all teams had to be over. Most, if not all teams, usually spent far more than that, up to the salary cap if they wanted.

And the floor and cap were based on certain percentages of the total shared revenue of all the teams iirc....

So if that money isn't being spent on rookies, and the CBA is set up in a similar fashion, it WILL go to other players.

The reason the owners opted out of that last CBA is because they felt the players % was too high. So, in this new CBA they'll likely make some concessions to the players (fewer years required to hit unrestricted FA? No or limited use of the franchise tag? etc...)

So...as least as far as I understand everything, your argument doesn't work. The players might get less money overall in a new CBA, but if a rookie salary structure is part of that, then the veteran players will get the most of the money saved.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Um.....false. The way CBA's have worked in the past, and likely will continue to work with a few minor changes, is that owners have to spend so much on the players. The old "salary floor" that all teams had to be over. Most, if not all teams, usually spent far more than that, up to the salary cap if they wanted.

And the floor and cap were based on certain percentages of the total shared revenue of all the teams iirc....

So if that money isn't being spent on rookies, and the CBA is set up in a similar fashion, it WILL go to other players.

The reason the owners opted out of that last CBA is because they felt the players % was too high. So, in this new CBA they'll likely make some concessions to the players (fewer years required to hit unrestricted FA? No or limited use of the franchise tag? etc...)

So...as least as far as I understand everything, your argument doesn't work. The players might get less money overall in a new CBA, but if a rookie salary structure is part of that, then the veteran players will get the most of the money saved.
Right. But the majority of the teams in the league don't have any trouble getting over the salary floor now. In fact, some have trouble staying under the cap.

Certainly some of this money will get spread to veterans, but I don't think it will change much.

This might give veterans who are on bad teams a break, which could be a good thing. But I highly doubt owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder are nervous about getting over the salary floor right now.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Right. But the majority of the teams in the league don't have any trouble getting over the salary floor now. In fact, some have trouble staying under the cap.

Certainly some of this money will get spread to veterans, but I don't think it will change much.

This might give veterans who are on bad teams a break, which could be a good thing. But I highly doubt owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder are nervous about getting over the salary floor right now.
Well, the floor is what they were required to spend on the players, and they all spent it. They mostly all spent well over it. So paying the players wasn't actually a problem.....and if anyone but the unproven rookies has a say in the matter (owners, fans, veteran players) they'd all much, much, much rather see that money invested in guys who've actually proven themselves.

And if you can cut back what those top rookies are making.....even by half would be a big help....then the bad teams picking at the top won't have to invest so much in those unproven players, and could use the rest to get better by attracting proven FA's and by extending what good players they do have more easily.
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