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Old 07-19-2010, 07:34 AM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:45 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.
The steelers lost one of their starting lineman on an already revolving door of a line with roethlisberger missing a chunk of the season who knows how he comes back, the pats are not the toast of their division the dolphins and jets wont be stepped all over, and the chargers have big question marks on offense. The above is how you develop an internet ego, attack something calling it stupid apparently thre are more important internet topics to discuss, ignore the topic at hand, and there you have made your internet ***** grow.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.

So maybe we should just make the list exactly by the final standings of last year. That way there is no change, or parity, and nobody can be over or underrated. I mean, obviously no teams ever go from being sorry to good, and all the playoff teams always make it the next season anyway.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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losing 2 of your 4 starters on the DL and the best guy in the Superbowl, LT, and still having a weak LB core isn't acutally getting better.
Who did we lose on the DL? Grant and McCray? You got to be kidding me about losing them makes us worse. Grant has been horrible since his new contract, which is why we let him go, and besides the Favre and Warner hit McCray wasn't anything either. And we got Alex Brown and Jimmy Wilkerson, two guys who I would put above McCray. So in essence, we got better there and that point isnt valid

We have never had a good LBing core, so getting to the SB and winning it shows we don't need that good of one because with the Blitzes in Greg Williams system we don't need all-pros. But then again we do have a Pro Bowler in Johnathan Vilma, at LB, so its better then most. And the reason we didn't draft a LB is because of Stanely Arnoux, who will be starting.

And who is LT? Are you talking about Jamaal Brown?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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The steelers lost one of their starting lineman on an already revolving door of a line with roethlisberger missing a chunk of the season who knows how he comes back, the pats are not the toast of their division the dolphins and jets wont be stepped all over, and the chargers have big question marks on offense. The above is how you develop an internet ego, attack something calling it stupid apparently thre are more important internet topics to discuss, ignore the topic at hand, and there you have made your internet ***** grow.
This is what is meant by when people say the Pats are underrated. The Pats arent the 'toast' of their division based off what exactly? The Jets got hot at the right time last year but don't forget they sneaked into the playoffs when they had to beat the Bengals and Colts who both rested their starters. The dolphins have been improving but they have not proven anything yet. They won the division two years ago but that was when Brady got hurt.

It is the easy option to say the Pats window is closing or they dont have the same 'it' they had a few years back.

A lot of the problems the Pats had where around a lack of experience at key times. With a further year in the system players like Mayo, Meriweather, Butler, Chung, Edelman, Vollmer, Tate etc should step it up.

I have yet to hear one convincing arguement as to why I would place either the Jets or Dolphins over the Patriots. Obviously I could be proven wrong but as of right now Im not buying the hype.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Well when the division has not had a repeat winner ya it makes sense. I didn't feel the need to break down how Moore is a better QB than Delhomme and the falcons will have a healthy Ryan and Turner. Just for fun ill throw out the madden curse. No reason to believe the saints will have back to back good seasons. The colts o-line still sucks it has not stopped them, Gonzo and Sanders has not stopped them(we still made the super bowl with those against us).
I will not argue with someone whose main reason why a team will not be good is because "history of the nfc south" and madden curse. That is just laughable.

And did I not say the Colts were good? I just said you didn't do anything to help you this year, which the other teams did. So basically, whie you stayed put, other teams jumped you. You get it?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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I will not argue with someone whose main reason why a team will not be good is because "history of the nfc south" and madden curse. That is just laughable.

And did I not say the Colts were good? I just said you didn't do anything to help you this year, which the other teams did. So basically, whie you stayed put, other teams jumped you. You get it?
You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.
Not in a league allegedly based on parity. The Colts should be a top 5 team in pretty much every power ranking, however not because they have gone to the playoffs so many years in a row. It's because they have done well surrounding Manning with targets and having a great pass rush. That sounds really simplistic but it's true. It also helps that Manning has been in the same system his whole career.

Without adding much of anything to their team(Hughes will be good but he's way down the depth chart now) they can't expect to stay at the top. If something happens to say Dwight Freeney then the pass rush goes and the Colts defense becomes a lot less formidable.

And remember Peyton Manning had something like 10 4th quarter comebacks last year. Eventually that's going to stop happening
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Not in a league allegedly based on parity. The Colts should be a top 5 team in pretty much every power ranking, however not because they have gone to the playoffs so many years in a row. It's because they have done well surrounding Manning with targets and having a great pass rush. That sounds really simplistic but it's true. It also helps that Manning has been in the same system his whole career.

Without adding much of anything to their team(Hughes will be good but he's way down the depth chart now) they can't expect to stay at the top. If something happens to say Dwight Freeney then the pass rush goes and the Colts defense becomes a lot less formidable.

And remember Peyton Manning had something like 10 4th quarter comebacks last year. Eventually that's going to stop happening
What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.
Ok well I skimmed over it so obviously my last post can be disregarded. I dont agree however that you can base having the Saints so far down because of what happened the previous 8 years in the division.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.
Do not mistake coincidence for fate.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Ok well I skimmed over it so obviously my last post can be disregarded. I dont agree however that you can base having the Saints so far down because of what happened the previous 8 years in the division.
It is also based on the panthers and falcons being better teams. On paper the Saints are about even with the falcons. If Matty ice is what people think he is the biggest disparity between the two teams will be closed.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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I hate these threads so much.

Save for a handful, most NFL teams are .500 squads. A bounce here or a bounce there could leave them from anywhere between 6-10 and 10-6.

Injuries and depth will have a far greater outcome on seasons than talent at the top of the roster.

So, other than the elite handful of teams, you're basically trying to guess which teams will catch a few lucky breaks and/or stay healthy and overcome injuries. Good luck Miss Cleo.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Is everyone just assuming the Giants are going to get savagely raped by injuries again this year?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.
No apparently you don't get it. None of those teams were built longer then to go one year.

The year the Bucs won they let go of Lynch and Sapp and they always had a suspect line and Brad Johnson playing QB. They won because of defense and nothing else.

The Falcons was next and they had Vick. So what you want, but Vick wins games. They didn't place last the next year, they went 8-8, but thats because that was the year everyone but the Saints did amazing, and they almost went to playoffs too. But of course Vicks troubles catch up and the Falcons suck after that.

Bucs won because of Caddilac Williams and Chris Simms did good as rookies. So you really think they would have kept winning the division too?

Saints went on that magical ride because Sean Payton and brees brought the air attack which not alot of teams could deal with, but also had Deuce doing good. Then we release Deuce and our DBs was horrible and everyone threw against us (Jason David much?)

Bucs again, and its Jeff Garcia and Ernest Graham leading the way... see a trend yet? Noone has been built to keep winning.

2008, the Falcons minimized Ryans mistakes and played good D and ran with Turner, then Ryan and Turner have off years because of injuries so no wonder they don't repeat.


So now thats why the "curse of the nfc south" is like it is. No team was built to repeat, the closest thing was the Falcons with Vick, but all his troubles go from there. Now the Falcons are close to the Saints, but is Turner going to be back? Will their DB's actually play well? Do they have someone opposite Abraham because its only him on the pass rush? Will Ryan play as well as everyone expects? And Carolina? Really? The team who has no pass rush, lost one of their star LBs, have a unproven QB, noone but Smith to throw to, and a coaching staff on a one year deal?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Is everyone just assuming the Giants are going to get savagely raped by injuries again this year?
The Giants are an absolutely perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Good luck + relatively injury free=Superbowl winner
Bad bounces + mounting injuries=8-8

And the Giants are much, much more talented than most teams in the league.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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No apparently you don't get it. None of those teams were built longer then to go one year.

The year the Bucs won they let go of Lynch and Sapp and they always had a suspect line and Brad Johnson playing QB. They won because of defense and nothing else.

The Falcons was next and they had Vick. So what you want, but Vick wins games. They didn't place last the next year, they went 8-8, but thats because that was the year everyone but the Saints did amazing, and they almost went to playoffs too. But of course Vicks troubles catch up and the Falcons suck after that.

Bucs won because of Caddilac Williams and Chris Simms did good as rookies. So you really think they would have kept winning the division too?

Saints went on that magical ride because Sean Payton and brees brought the air attack which not alot of teams could deal with, but also had Deuce doing good. Then we release Deuce and our DBs was horrible and everyone threw against us (Jason David much?)

Bucs again, and its Jeff Garcia and Ernest Graham leading the way... see a trend yet? Noone has been built to keep winning.

2008, the Falcons minimized Ryans mistakes and played good D and ran with Turner, then Ryan and Turner have off years because of injuries so no wonder they don't repeat.


So now thats why the "curse of the nfc south" is like it is. No team was built to repeat, the closest thing was the Falcons with Vick, but all his troubles go from there. Now the Falcons are close to the Saints, but is Turner going to be back? Will their DB's actually play well? Do they have someone opposite Abraham because its only him on the pass rush? Will Ryan play as well as everyone expects? And Carolina? Really? The team who has no pass rush, lost one of their star LBs, have a unproven QB, noone but Smith to throw to, and a coaching staff on a one year deal?
The saints could have the same question marks. Will the young DB's continue to develop? Is Darren Sharper to old to continue his ballhawk ways? Will the wide outs be ok with Brees spreading the ball around? Can Jamaal Brown be replaced? The panthers upgraded their QB position. It is hard to get much worse than Delhomme was playing. The saints play was shaky the last 4 games of the season till they got their heads on straight. There could be more of the team that lost to tampa bay and needed OT to beat the redskins.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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The Giants are an absolutely perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Good luck + relatively injury free=Superbowl winner
Bad bounces + mounting injuries=8-8

And the Giants are much, much more talented than most teams in the league.
I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.
I think you just really wanted to get that off you're chest, because you're just agreeing with what I said.

I didn't say they were a .500 team. I said they're much, much more talented the the majority of the league. When they were healthy and lucky, they won the Superbowl. When riddled with injuries, they went 8-8. I'm just pointing out the extremes that could happen to a team, and why it's pointless to try and predict these things. You can't predict who is going to stay healthy and who is going to have good luck; it's impossible.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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The saints could have the same question marks. Will the young DB's continue to develop? Is Darren Sharper to old to continue his ballhawk ways? Will the wide outs be ok with Brees spreading the ball around? Can Jamaal Brown be replaced? The panthers upgraded their QB position. It is hard to get much worse than Delhomme was playing. The saints play was shaky the last 4 games of the season till they got their heads on straight. There could be more of the team that lost to tampa bay and needed OT to beat the redskins.
When one of your corners has been in the league for 7 years and the other 4, I dont see how they are young, unless your referring to our 1st roud corner, but of course I bet you knew that.

Darren Sharper is consistent. Check his career, which is a trend your trying to tell me? If he shows the past 8 years he can, why not now?

The wideouts have always been okay with Brees spreading it out, hence the reason you never hear them complain abotu it. They know they compliment each other, and has been talked about for years.

Jamaal didn't play last year, so not too hard to replace him when he wasn't there.

And last 4 games, you mean when we rested players? Because if you check the games, most of our starters didn't play once we locked HFA. Keep trying though.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.
I think it relies on if Jacobs can come back to form, Phillips can actually play (is he 100%?) and is it Goff your MLB now?
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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When one of your corners has been in the league for 7 years and the other 4, I dont see how they are young, unless your referring to our 1st roud corner, but of course I bet you knew that.

Darren Sharper is consistent. Check his career, which is a trend your trying to tell me? If he shows the past 8 years he can, why not now?

The wideouts have always been okay with Brees spreading it out, hence the reason you never hear them complain abotu it. They know they compliment each other, and has been talked about for years.

Jamaal didn't play last year, so not too hard to replace him when he wasn't there.

And last 4 games, you mean when we rested players? Because if you check the games, most of our starters didn't play once we locked HFA. Keep trying though.
You must not follow the saints closely. They did not lockup HFA advantage till the Vikings lost in week 16 yet the saints starters still played the entire game in a loss to the terrible buccaneers.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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I think you just really wanted to get that off you're chest, because you're just agreeing with what I said.

I didn't say they were a .500 team. I said they're much, much more talented the the majority of the league. When they were healthy and lucky, they won the Superbowl. When riddled with injuries, they went 8-8. I'm just pointing out the extremes that could happen to a team, and why it's pointless to try and predict these things. You can't predict who is going to stay healthy and who is going to have good luck; it's impossible.
I totally agree with your point about luck and injuries, but I disagreed with your comment that most teams in the league are .500 teams, there's a good handful of elite teams who are playoff locks barring epic injuries, another half dozen teams who could withstand a number of injuries provided a few key guys stay healthy and make the playoffs and then comes the dozen or so .500 teams who will be a few bounces away from 6-10 or 9-7/10-6.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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I think it relies on if Jacobs can come back to form, Phillips can actually play (is he 100%?) and is it Goff your MLB now?
Jacobs doesn't matter, our OL played like **** last year, but we've re-juvenated and we're deep at RB. Also that's less important because Eli has become a damn near elite QB, last year he was a beast and pretty much single handedly won us those 8 games and that was throwing to a bunch of first time NFL receivers who'll be a year more consistent and he won't have two injured feet stopping him from stepping into his throws.

And Goff has looked better when he's played than AP has in years, so he's our starter and we're damn happy to have him.

The biggest question for me is a giants fan is will be our run D. If our DTs are getting pushed around and the ones that aren't get injured again we'll be in a tough spot, but we look strong at DT right now. And we should be a playoff team regardless of if we've fixed the run D or not.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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I have to agree with the Bob Sanders guy on the NFC South. Not only is there a new winner every year, but also a new loser as in no team that finishes last, finishes last again. Tampa Bay will probably be good this year and everthing will go their way like New Orleans last year. Somebody that is expected to do good will do bad and end up last. I am going to say New Orleans if anybody though. Everything will go against them like Tampa Bay last year. That is the NFC South curse and it will strike again.
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