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Old 08-22-2010, 11:28 PM    (permalink
Xenos
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
How successful has he really been, though? He has yet to get a team to the Super Bowl, much less win it. I'm not saying he isn't a good GM but I think people consider him amongst the elite, which I really don't feel like he is.

They've made fairly deep runs in the playoffs and won the division consistently but in a pretty bad/mediocre division for quite some time now.

I just think he's ass, personally. An ass who's good at his job, but lets his personal feelings and ego get in the way of doing that job. That's just my opinion though, and I could be completely off base.
His job is to gather talent on the team. Everything after that is coaching and luck. His mentor Polian has more experience as a GM than him, and yet has only won one Superbowl.

The truth of the matter is that he's very much a huge factor in our most successful era as a franchise compared to Coryell or even the Beathard era where we actually did make the Superbowl.

Last edited by Xenos : 08-22-2010 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Get Jackson out of the AFC west and I will be real happy. Gets rid of the Chargers best WR. Just got to stop Gates
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why he doesn't sign Vincent Jackson. I can see why they wouldn't want to extend McNeil. It seems like a good GM would have seen this coming and handled it better. If Jackson and McNeil weren't part of the long term plan then he should have dealt them before the draft. Teams generally know if contract problems are coming. I think Smith has sat on these guys and lost trade value. It seems to me that he is passing on improving the Chargers to play personal games.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why he doesn't sign Vincent Jackson. I can see why they wouldn't want to extend McNeil. It seems like a good GM would have seen this coming and handled it better. If Jackson and McNeil weren't part of the long term plan then he should have dealt them before the draft. Teams generally know if contract problems are coming. I think Smith has sat on these guys and lost trade value. It seems to me that he is passing on improving the Chargers to play personal games.
Jackson is one more offense away from a possible year long suspension and he wants a lot more money than he is worth.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Jackson is one more offense away from a possible year long suspension and he wants a lot more money than he is worth.
If he gets suspended can't they go after his signing bonus? If they know his history can't they put a clause in his contract that deals with off the field incidents? I'm not sure what is allowed.

Why are they only allowing the Seahawks to talk to him? Doesn't that seem like they don't want him to find a trade partner?
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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If he gets suspended can't they go after his signing bonus? If they know his history can't they put a clause in his contract that deals with off the field incidents? I'm not sure what is allowed.

Why are they only allowing the Seahawks to talk to him? Doesn't that seem like they don't want him to find a trade partner?
It's possible that they could write something like that in. I know there are restrictions on going after a guys signing bonus though...I've read all kinds of things on both sides of the argument so I'm not actually sure what's allowed and what isn't.

They also probably want him out of the conference, and perhaps the Seahawks are the only NFC to inquire.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand why he doesn't sign Vincent Jackson. I can see why they wouldn't want to extend McNeil. It seems like a good GM would have seen this coming and handled it better. If Jackson and McNeil weren't part of the long term plan then he should have dealt them before the draft. Teams generally know if contract problems are coming. I think Smith has sat on these guys and lost trade value. It seems to me that he is passing on improving the Chargers to play personal games.
From what I hear they did try to negotiate a new contract with him before, but then he got his second DUI and negotiations stopped. And then he had the suspended license issue before the Jets game. And even after all that, I think they would have tried to work something out if he had signed his original tender like the 200 other RFA (Miles Austin comes to mind). Of course, that was before I learned that he wanted to be the highest paid wide receiver in the NFL.

Really, you can't really blame Smith if he can't negotiate that much for someone like VJ. Especially since he's not the one the offense runs through. That honor belongs to both Rivers and Gates. Hopefully Mathews becomes one of them in the future as well.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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His job is to gather talent on the team. Everything after that is coaching and luck. His mentor Polian has more experience as a GM than him, and yet has only won one Superbowl.

The truth of the matter is that he's very much a huge factor in our most successful era as a franchise compared to Coryell or even the Beathard era where we actually did make the Superbowl.
To be fair, Polians had what, 6+ teams get there as a GM?
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, Polians had what, 6+ teams get there as a GM?
What is it, four with the Bills and two with the Colts?
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Old 08-24-2010, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Word on the street has it that Atlanta has gotten permission to talk to Vincent Jackson. With the injuries to rookie WR Kerry Meier and veteran WR Michael Jenkins (along with Harry Douglas coming off of an ACL tear), "Coach Mike Smith [has] said there's a possibility the Falcons sign another wide receiver after the 53-man roster is established and Meier goes on IR." -Falcons RapidReports.

I don't know how they do it if VJ wants 9 million dollars a year, especially with so much money tied into Roddy. But the thought of that offense has me wet.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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I still don't see this happening (I wish), but if it did what would the Falcons have to give up for him. Brandon Marshall racked in two 2nds, Santonio Holmes brought in a 5th, I think for V Jax it would have to be either a 2nd, or maybe two 3rds. I doubt the latter because it seems like too little, but Jackson won't even be allowed to be 4 or 6 games this year due to suspension (can't remember the exact amount). I know Vincent Jackson and Roddy White have the same agent which could help out a little.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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He won't be traded...he will sit the time and come in when he comes in. Hopefully he'll do some damage in the playoffs.

Although this whole situation has me pondering what the Chargers' draft next year could look like. They already have a probable but conditional 2nd from NYJ and a 3rd from Seattle. I don't see VJ getting shipped out for less than a 2nd. Could be quite a haul.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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He won't be traded...he will sit the time and come in when he comes in. Hopefully he'll do some damage in the playoffs.

Although this whole situation has me pondering what the Chargers' draft next year could look like. They already have a probable but conditional 2nd from NYJ and a 3rd from Seattle. I don't see VJ getting shipped out for less than a 2nd. Could be quite a haul.
Pretty adamant on your stance there. You think all these trade talks are bs? Hopefully he signs before Setember 3rd for the people, like me, who have him in fantasy. Him coming to the Falcons is pretty implausible, but there must be a reason why we are talking to him.
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Pretty adamant on your stance there. You think all these trade talks are bs? Hopefully he signs before Setember 3rd for the people, like me, who have him in fantasy. Him coming to the Falcons is pretty implausible, but there must be a reason why we are talking to him.
Well he is not backing down from the 30 mill guaranteed/50 mill contract...and he has two DUIs, and the last time the NFL world saw him he was getting arrested on the day of the playoff game for driving without a license, to the freaking stadium. Show me the team that is giving V-Jack the superstar contract and giving up picks right now.

It's a bad holdout. My thinking is he either comes in or he sits.
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Old 08-25-2010, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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People are overrating McNeil and underrating Jackson. Jackson is the more important player to keep from a skill standpoint.

To be honest, the Left Tackle position as a whole has become overrated in the NFL.

I know that sounds like blasphemy, but if you really think about it, it's true.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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People are overrating McNeil and underrating Jackson. Jackson is the more important player to keep from a skill standpoint.

To be honest, the Left Tackle position as a whole has become overrated in the NFL.

I know that sounds like blasphemy, but if you really think about it, it's true.
And on the same note, Right Tackles have become undervalued by fans/media. Though recently it seems that NFL teams much more comfortable with spending high draft picks on RT's. I think it may have to do with the spread of the 3-4. Now you have athletic pass rushers on both sides opposed to in an old school 4-3 where you'd have your pass rusher at RE and your 280lb run stuffer at LE.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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I don't think either player is so key to the Chargers' future...McNeill is an OL with back problems at an early age and Jackson is scary good because Rivers is scary good (plus Jackson's really tall).
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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People are overrating McNeil and underrating Jackson. Jackson is the more important player to keep from a skill standpoint.
Rivers is good enough at spreading the ball around and has enough weapons to get by with out Jackson but he has to be standing up right to do it.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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And on the same note, Right Tackles have become undervalued by fans/media. Though recently it seems that NFL teams much more comfortable with spending high draft picks on RT's. I think it may have to do with the spread of the 3-4. Now you have athletic pass rushers on both sides opposed to in an old school 4-3 where you'd have your pass rusher at RE and your 280lb run stuffer at LE.
The right end is still probably going to be the premier pass rusher and the left tackle the most athletic pass blocker, only because it is most QB's blind side. But I agree, even 4-3 teams are putting two pass rushers on the ends these days.

Colts - Freeney and Mathis
Eagles - Cole and Graham
Vikings - Allen and Edwards
Texans - Williams and Smith (kind of)
Giants - Tuck and Umenoria, or JPP, or Kiwi

etc.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/...e=HP_headlines

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NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora sat down for an exclusive interview with Vincent Jackson, who's training in Arizona while holding out from the San Diego Chargers over his contract situation. The interview will air Friday on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access," which starts at 7 p.m. ET.
If you click the link you can watch part of the interview.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
I don't think either player is so key to the Chargers' future...McNeill is an OL with back problems at an early age and Jackson is scary good because Rivers is scary good (plus Jackson's really tall).

I bet Naanae and Floyd play really, really well.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:50 PM    (permalink
CC.SD
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CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/...e=HP_headlines



If you click the link you can watch part of the interview.
Sigh, more drama. I hope they don't just lob him a bunch of softballs, there are some questions about this situation that make even VJ's biggest fans (myself) question this holdout. I mean...stop getting DUIs.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
Splat
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Sigh, more drama. I hope they don't just lob him a bunch of softballs, there are some questions about this situation that make even VJ's biggest fans (myself) question this holdout. I mean...stop getting DUIs.
This really is a the sticking point, if not for this I think he would all ready have a long term deal with SD or been traded.

I can see SD's fear of locking him up long term as well as a teams fear of giving up the moon for him in a trade/money the risk is to much.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Even without the DUI's, I'm not sure he's worth Brandon Marshall money, which last I heard, is what he's aiming for. That or even better. He isn't worth that.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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They would just put a clause in the contract that says if he gets another DUI the contract gets voided if that's what they were worried about. He is just asking for too much money.
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