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View Poll Results: Were the Lions robbed of a win?
Yes 52 50.49%
No 6 5.83%
Not sure 0 0%
It was the right call, but don't agree with the rule. 18 17.48%
It was the right call, but they need to change the rule 18 17.48%
The refs should have used common sense 9 8.74%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-13-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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At this point in their career Shaun Hill isn't that much of a down grade to Matt Stafford. Obviously you want Stafford in there, and he has a ton more upside, but for a few games you could do worse than Hill IMO. And Yes that was one of the worst calls I've ever seen. Maybe one of the worst in history.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I want to say they were robbed by the rule but the right call was made although I don't agree with the rule. Where's that option?
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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it was straight robbery...might be how the rule is written but the rul is written wrong. maintaining possession throughout the catch should be the rule for toe tapping out of bounds catches, not clear catches in the middle of the field or endzone
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Someone raised an even bigger point in an earlier thread about this game. The bears had the ball on the Detroit one yard line, and were unable to punch it in for three downs. Chicago was trailing 13-14 and Detroit hadn't managed a single first down the entire 2nd half. Common sense says, kick the field goal and take the lead. Detrouts offense has been terrible with Shaun hill, we can hold them. No, they go for it and don't get it. The spread in that game was 6.5. A Chicago td and two point conversion would've put them up 7 and outside the spread. Seems fishy to me.

How is this relevant? Detroit losing this game will definitely have an effect on where the spread starts at for betting next week in their game, and so will the Chicago win. I say where there's smoke there's fire, and where there's money there's corruption.

Anyone remember when the NHL got busted for it's gambling ring? Don't say it's not possible. What about that ref in the NBA a couple years ago. Pete rose?
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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The refs called it correctly so don't blame them. They should change the rule but it's pretty dicey how you write the rule to have it clearly defined and fair and so it has exactly 1 interpretation.

Maybe say that if he establishes control of the football and then is down (knee, elbow) before the ball touches the ground than it is a catch. Or just say that if you catch the ball in the palm of your one hand in the endzone while falling to the ground and your nickname is Megatron then it's a touchdown.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
The refs called it correctly so don't blame them. They should change the rule but it's pretty dicey how you write the rule to have it clearly defined and fair and so it has exactly 1 interpretation.

Maybe say that if he establishes control of the football and then is down (knee, elbow) before the ball touches the ground than it is a catch. Or just say that if you catch the ball in the palm of your one hand in the endzone while falling to the ground and your nickname is Megatron then it's a touchdown.

As you are a Packers fan, I instantly question your credibility.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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The ref didn't call that **** correctly, or they're gonna have to start taking back a lot of TDs. Maintaining control to the ground shouldn't matter if you take two steps turn, and then fall, hit your ass, then your arm, THEN you touch the ball to the ground.

The dude took two steps, and landed on his ass. He had it firmly in two hands, took two steps, went down and still had control of it in one hand.

Terrible terrible call.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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When is the "process" over? Two feet, one knee, one ass, one forearm WITH possession. I'm sorry NFL, the "process" is over at that point. I've never heard of the receiver having to stand up with the football to complete the catch.
This sums up my argument. Next thing you know, the receiver will have to carefully walk the ball over to the ref and place it in his hands in order for it to be a TD. Unless, of course, the ref drops the ball, in which case, it's not a TD.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Someone raised an even bigger point in an earlier thread about this game. The bears had the ball on the Detroit one yard line, and were unable to punch it in for three downs. Chicago was trailing 13-14 and Detroit hadn't managed a single first down the entire 2nd half. Common sense says, kick the field goal and take the lead. Detrouts offense has been terrible with Shaun hill, we can hold them. No, they go for it and don't get it. The spread in that game was 6.5. A Chicago td and two point conversion would've put them up 7 and outside the spread. Seems fishy to me.

How is this relevant? Detroit losing this game will definitely have an effect on where the spread starts at for betting next week in their game, and so will the Chicago win. I say where there's smoke there's fire, and where there's money there's corruption.

Anyone remember when the NHL got busted for it's gambling ring? Don't say it's not possible. What about that ref in the NBA a couple years ago. Pete rose?
I don't understand. Are you saying the Bears staff/team, or the refs, or both? were worried about the line, and/or had money on the game/something like that?

Chicago went for the TD instead of a FG. Very dumb, yes. You say if they would have gotten it, they would have gone for 2 to go up 7. Well no ****. They scored later and went for 2. Reason? Because you'd rather be up 7 than 5. Kicking the PAT only puts you up 6, meaning a DET TD and PAT wins it. It had nothing to do with trying to get outside the line.

And if you think the refs had any collusion on this, yea it's pretty obvious because either way the line was beat. So disallowing the TD had nothing to do with the line. It was either going to be Chicago by 6 or Detroit by 1. Unless you bet Detroit straight up to win, that doesn't change anything.

This situation has minimal connection to what could be construed as gambling within the league (whether it be the team/coaches/players or refs). It makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I always believed that refs try to influence spreads and over/unders in all sports. It's so easy to manipulate those without ruining a game or being obvious and forcing a team to lose all the time.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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As you are a Packers fan, I instantly question your credibility.
I thought it was complete garbage. I was rooting for the Lions to win. It made me as angry as I was when that golfer was later told to add 2 strokes and miss a playoff because he barely grazed an area that didn't even resemble a bunker for a grounding call. Or about as angry as Jim Joyce's imperfect call. Once it happens, as much as you hate it and think it's wrong, you have to call it by the rulebook but then you damn well better figure out a way to stop it from happening again.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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sorry to snipe, but i want further explanation. the rule is ambiguous enough that i have a hard time believing that there's a rational explanation for your opinion.

edit: which, on re-reading sounds snarky, but i mean it to read as 'what is your explanation because maybe i'm wrong.'
When I saw the play I immediately knew it would be determined an incomplete pass. It's not that I can (or even want to) break down the rule, it's simply based on previous application of said rule.

It's like the tuck rule for TD catches. It sucks, but it's pretty clear how it will be ruled when reviewed.

The Lions did not get robbed. The players should know the rules well enough to take better care of the ball.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Robbery, pure and simple. It's a dubious interpretation of "process of the catch". I don't see any reason for extending it the way this ruling does. It's simply not harmonious with the general approach to scoring, for example, the "breaking the plane" rule has led to many weak ass touchdowns.

As an aside, CJ thought he had a TD and so did the official on the spot. I'm not clear on how the "ruling on the field" became an incomplete. Which official overruled the original call?
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Someone raised an even bigger point in an earlier thread about this game. The bears had the ball on the Detroit one yard line, and were unable to punch it in for three downs. Chicago was trailing 13-14 and Detroit hadn't managed a single first down the entire 2nd half. Common sense says, kick the field goal and take the lead. Detrouts offense has been terrible with Shaun hill, we can hold them. No, they go for it and don't get it. The spread in that game was 6.5. A Chicago td and two point conversion would've put them up 7 and outside the spread. Seems fishy to me.

How is this relevant? Detroit losing this game will definitely have an effect on where the spread starts at for betting next week in their game, and so will the Chicago win. I say where there's smoke there's fire, and where there's money there's corruption.

Anyone remember when the NHL got busted for it's gambling ring? Don't say it's not possible. What about that ref in the NBA a couple years ago. Pete rose?
Thats not to far fetched actually. Think about it, even refs in the NBA like Tim Donaghy got busted for fixing games and after he got out of prison, I remember him saying something along the lines of this, "Do you honestly think I am the only one that does this?" I can't find the exact quote, but I know he said something similar to that. But for this rule that costed the Lions the game. It should be either changed or thrown out completely. Its just one of those rules that you can easily use to your liking.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I guess the refs expected Calvin to maintain posession with two hands until taking the ball home and cuddling with it in bed.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Watching it live I thought it was the right call. I thought he had the touchdown at first too, but then saw the ball pop out and knew it wasn't. My friends I was watching it with thought I was crazy, but I knew it was the right call. When you watch it in slow motion it looks like a catch 100%, but watching it live he doesn't complete the catch. Yes, he had so much hit in bounds but he was never stopped with the ball. It was one fluid motion and the ball popped out. Not a catch.

And no I don't think it's a bad rule. Not a bad ruling, not a bad rule, it was all right. It sucks big time for the Lions, but it's not a catch and shouldn't be a catch.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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As you are a Packers fan, I instantly question your credibility.
yes, cause Packers fans love to defend the Chicago Bears.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Seemed like the correct call to me. Also, Calvin Johnson tries to do everything one handed far too much. If he tucked the ball tightly to his chest, they would have won the damn game.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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as I see it, he is not in the process of going down, he is in the process of getting up, while at all times keeping control of the ball thus making the call wrong. he doesn't loose control of the ball, he puts it on the ground (and yes, he is on my fantasy team)
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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To avoid calling it the Calvin Johnson play.... let's just refer to this as the Chicago Ruling.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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It's as *** of a rule as some of the golf rules that go against common sense.
Here's the best way I can illustrate how **** the rule is:

Reggie Bush takes off at the 6 yard line along the sideline. He's flying like Superman above the sideline. As he gets near the goalline, above out-of-bounds space, he reaches that ball over the pylon. It's a touchdown even though he never even set foot in the end zone. But when he lands out of bounds midway thru the end zone to the side, the ball flies out when he crashes to the ground. But it's still a touchdown as that ball crossed over the pylon.

Calvin Johnson went up, snatched the ball. Came down with two feet. Maintained it, no juggle. Went to the ground. Still had it, ground didn't cause it to jar loose. Then he rolled over and pushed himself up with the ball. No touchdown? Stupid as heII rule and the NFL knows it.

The only thing that is justice there, IMO, is the Bears dominated that game for the most part.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
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There's an ambiguity to the wording of this rule that needs to be eliminated. What Calvin Johnson made was a touchdown catch, but if there's any wiggle room in the rules that could mis-define that, it needs to be changed.

I don't think the ref made a good call, but the fact that he could have gone both ways on that ruling shows that the rule is crap.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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I agree that the rule was properly followed, that said, the rule is stupid and contradicts other rules. One of the reasons officiating is so inconsistent in the NFL is that the rulebook has gotten a lot bigger and that there are more rules open to interpretation.
The Bears did a lot of things to try and give the game away despite how much they outplayed the Lions. Thanks to 5 turnovers and bad decisions, the Bears should have handed the game away, but didn't thanks to a stupid rule.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
Shane P. Hallam
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It was ruled correctly, the rule just is vague and not great to begin with. It is a TOUGH rule to word. If you change the nature of the rule there be a lot of "non-catches" considered catches.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
It was ruled correctly, the rule just is vague and not great to begin with. It is a TOUGH rule to word. If you change the nature of the rule there be a lot of "non-catches" considered catches.
Sounds like a bunch of BS IMO to not address an issue. Its similar to the Bert Emanuel situation years back in the NFC Title Game. The rule, and by default the refs, effected the end of a game and that is something that should not happen. Goodell needs to deal with this, but based on reputation nothing will be done for awhile.
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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