Jimmy Clausen is the new Carolina Panthers starting QB - Page 9

njx9 · 10-19-2010, 04:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout

Again the Rams have a line based off of high drafted players.

completely irrelevant. but nice try.

Thecollegedropout · 10-19-2010, 04:31 PM

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

So the Browns have a better supporting cast, and situation, then the Panthers. Lol. What a turn of evens we've seen in only one month.

Better O-Line absolutely and that is what matters. Also losing Steve Smith for a few games does an effect likewise with no Otah fro the entire year(So far)

Thecollegedropout · 10-19-2010, 04:35 PM

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Originally Posted by njx9

completely irrelevant. but nice try.

So you're saying that the Rams line isn't built well because of the drafting of Saffold or Smith?

Cmon I am a Jets fan and our 2 best lineman were drafted together in round 1 in D'Brick and Mangold....a top 5 pick on a LT and a 1st round pick on a C. Jets had 5 1st rounders on the line last season and to no surprise it held its own in many games.

Thecollegedropout · 10-19-2010, 04:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Complex

Cribbs left the game early and so did the guy with the long name who eas their #1 or 2 WR any more excuses?

I am not going to say McCoy didn't have a good game but the Browns were playing catchup throughout the entire game with a injured RB in Hillis which meant McCoy had the luxury of throwing the ball for more downs.

Panthers try and institute the run attack first and foremost. Always have, always will.

njx9 · 10-19-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout

So you're saying that the Rams line isn't built well because of the drafting of Saffold or Smith?

Cmon I am a Jets fan and our 2 best lineman were drafted together in round 1 in D'Brick and Mangold....a top 5 pick on a LT and a 1st round pick on a C. Jets had 5 1st rounders on the line last season and to no surprise it held its own in many games.

i'm saying that the draft position of a player is completely irrelevant, when you're talking about how good that player is.

unless, of course, you'd like to argue that the late 90's, early 00's broncos had one of the worst o-lines in the history of football.

Thecollegedropout · 10-19-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i'm saying that the draft position of a player is completely irrelevant, when you're talking about how good that player is.

unless, of course, you'd like to argue that the late 90's, early 00's broncos had one of the worst o-lines in the history of football.

No I mean that the Rams put alot of their high selections and investment into their O-Line and thus far have been rewarded for doing so(Granted they really haven't battled a top defense like Cleveland's has but still good).

Bills haven't drafted a tackle in round 1 since Mike Williams....and we know what the deal is with their line. Its been ass for about a decade. They could get lucky like with Peters yes but the chances of that are very tough. Not to say all 1st round lineman are guaranteed studs, they're not(Look at Williams as a prime example) but like with any position drafted, you stand a better shot at getting premier talent at a spot with the higher pick.

scpanther22 · 10-19-2010, 07:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Complex

The panthers offense playbook is the same as the one at ND, even Jimmy Clausen said it(only a little bigger). The panther OC was taught by charlie Weis so lets not use this excuse.

The terminology is about the same around 85%.

The panthers run a offense based on a lot of play action something Clausen is not the best at.So its no excuse thats fact.

scpanther22 · 10-19-2010, 07:44 PM

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Exactly, it's just an easy cop out. After the draft everyone(especially Panthers fans) were so excited because the offense was a great fit, and so were the surrounding weapons. Funny how all that changes when he struggles.

Never changed for me.

Clausen strength is his accuracy.If I am not mistake Weis had a lot of West coast offense in his playbook?.Something the panthers dont do.

They do a more playaction and The Oline has really regressed.

BlindSite · 10-20-2010, 02:46 AM

Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

Saints-Tigers · 10-20-2010, 03:27 AM

I find it hard to evaluate rookie QBs to be honest. What they do as a rookie really means nothing, because the "best" rookie years you get for a QB is like Matt Ryan, where he's not totally incompetent.

They have to take huge leaps no matter where they are to be a better than average starter at the position. It's nice to see GROWTH early on, but meh, I like to see what kind of leap they make late into the season, and into their second year, because the first year, the most you can hope for is something like Bradford is doing, just taking what the D gives, and keeping his team on teh field enough for his playmakers to make plays.

Rarely do you get a very young QB come out and dominate, and a QBs first season(as a rookie really) doesn't give a strong indication of the future. If they've been sitting a few years, and then come in, you really like to see some true playmaking though.

I don't see a big correlation to a guys first year if he starts as a rookie, to how he'll fair down the road, it seems like a hard thing to project.

That said, I expected more of Clausen thus far.

JPF · 10-20-2010, 07:13 AM

Personally, I don't think you can evaluate Clausen based on this season even if he had started the rest of the year. Our owner went cheap preparing for a possible lockout. He purged a good number of veterans from the payroll and didn't really try to sign anyone to replace them. Their biggest off-season signings were Ed Johnson and Marcus Hudson.

He let a starting RG walk (Keydrick Vincent) who was borderline anyway but an upgrade over Mackenzy Bernadeau who replaced him. Jeff Otah being out has further worsened the right side of the line. He's being replaced by Geoff Schwartz, who isn't horrible but just doesn't hold up against speed rushers (maybe if he moved inside to RG when Otah comes back he'll be more effective). Jordan Gross has been shaky but is starting to shake the rust off while Travelle Wharton and Ryan Kalil are playing decently.

At receiver it's pretty much the same thing except an even younger group trying to get the job done. Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett were the most experienced receivers on the roster entering the season. Jarrett has since been released (his career stats- 3 starts, 2 DUIs, 1 TD), and Smith got hurt in the 4th game of the year. That left 3 rookie WR's on the roster. Brandon LaFell hasn't shown anything, he's got 5 catches and at least 3 drops. David Gettis has shown more consistency catching the ball but he's only averaging 2.7 yards after the catch. Armanti Edwards is a project player. They brought in David Clowney and Devin Thomas. We'll see if they add anything to the team.

Our TE's are kind of a forgotten piece, at least by our OC. They continue to start Jeff King but he's not much of a receiving threat (with the right side of the line being so bad the extra blocking is needed), Dante Rosario is something of a receiving threat (he's at least a threat to get some yards after catch) but he's hardly ever in the game, and Gary Barnidge they misuse (he's the worst blocker by far of the three yet they continue to put him in to block- again the extra blocking is needed but putting in someone whose not a good blocker to do it doesn't make much sense).

DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are routinely facing 8 and 9 men in the box, and our line just can't get a push. Williams is averaging 4.7 ypc this year, but is only getting about 13 carries a game because of play-calling that has left most Panther fans scratching their heads (such as passing the ball 3 times in a row on the goal line).

As for the offensive coordinator, he seems to lack the imagination and creativity to move people around to create different looks and possible mismatches. And I don't say that based just on this year, I'm referring to his entire time in Carolina.

In other words, Clausen may or may not be the quarterback of the future for this team, but given the situation around him I don't think you can give a fair overall evaluation of him this year. I don't say that to take up for him, and there have been things I've seen from him I don't like (locking onto receivers, not giving a play time to develop when he does have time before checking it down, etc.), but the offense as a whole is a mess.

armageddon · 10-20-2010, 02:46 PM

Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

TACKLE · 10-20-2010, 02:48 PM

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Originally Posted by armageddon

Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

I don't see how they can't.

LonghornsLegend · 10-20-2010, 03:04 PM

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Originally Posted by BlindSite

Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

Actually unless I missed the post your the first person to even toss around the word bust. But if you want to pass up one of the big 3 potential franchise QB's for the hope that Clausen eventually gets it together then by all means. I'm sure the rest of the NFC South would love that.

keylime_5 · 10-20-2010, 03:06 PM

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Originally Posted by armageddon

Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

if they have a new coach/GM then that regime won't be married to Clausen, and chances are they would be in the group that didn't like Clausen that much coming out of college (considering how far he fell in the draft) - so I would say it's very possible.

JPF · 10-20-2010, 03:47 PM

From all accounts of the Charlotte media that I've read, the GM (Marty Hurney) appears to be safe. So a new coach-yes, a new GM-not likely.

That would possibly leave the franchise torn on the "do we draft a QB" issue.

Mr.Regular · 10-20-2010, 03:53 PM

I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.

LonghornsLegend · 10-20-2010, 05:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Mr.Regular

I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.

They can still draft Andrew Luck or Jake Locker and roll with Clausen, as we all know QB's can be very valuable commodities if they show some talent. If Clausen is as good as everyone says/though/thinks then he will still more then likely get to start next year ahead of the rookie QB and give them a chance to bring the new guy along slowly.

Still though it makes no sense to me to not keep him out there and get an idea of what you have because if he did start to reel together some wins and show a spark of a franchise signal caller that top 3 pick could very well be spent on talent to improve the team around him instead.

But I guess since Carolina is the worst place to play ever and they would make any QB look terrible, and STL and Cleveland are 10x better then it doesn't matter.

SchizophrenicBatman · 10-20-2010, 05:30 PM

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Originally Posted by BlindSite

Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

How's that Alex Smith thing working out for you? Ready to give him another 6 years to destroy that franchise?

Addict · 10-20-2010, 05:30 PM

I really don't understand why we are already calling him a bust this fast. I mean, come on guys, he hasn't even completed his first season and it's not like the Panthers are that great an offense.

SchizophrenicBatman · 10-20-2010, 05:33 PM

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Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I argued this earlier in the thread. Throw Clausen to the wolves...see what he is made of. If he continues to fail, draft a new QB. Benching him only serves to keep him as a question mark...the next staff comes in, says "Jimmy Clausen is my QB" and then he fails...setting them back by at least another year when that year could have been spent developing a real franchise QB.

Here's the problem with this logic: John Fox doesnt give a F about the Panthers future. In fact, if he's coaching an NFC team next year he probably wants it to be as screwed up as possible

Also, I can guarantee we hire some ball-less patsy coach next year. No chance Marty Hurney's chosen QB doesn't get another shot. If no real coach will commit to him, he's going to bring in Charlie Weis

yourfavestoner · 10-20-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I find it hard to evaluate rookie QBs to be honest. What they do as a rookie really means nothing, because the "best" rookie years you get for a QB is like Matt Ryan, where he's not totally incompetent.

They have to take huge leaps no matter where they are to be a better than average starter at the position. It's nice to see GROWTH early on, but meh, I like to see what kind of leap they make late into the season, and into their second year, because the first year, the most you can hope for is something like Bradford is doing, just taking what the D gives, and keeping his team on teh field enough for his playmakers to make plays.

Rarely do you get a very young QB come out and dominate, and a QBs first season(as a rookie really) doesn't give a strong indication of the future. If they've been sitting a few years, and then come in, you really like to see some true playmaking though.

I don't see a big correlation to a guys first year if he starts as a rookie, to how he'll fair down the road, it seems like a hard thing to project.

That said, I expected more of Clausen thus far.

A post I made in the Stafford vs Bradford thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco have set the bar for rookies so unrealistically high now that it's hard for people to figure out what to look for in a rookie quarterback.

Expecting anything other than bad QB play from play to play (let alone game to game) is just downright unrealistic. They're going to be bad, they're going to be inconsistent, they will not string drives together, they will turn the ball over, they will get sacked. For the most part, they have no idea what the **** they're doing out there. You're looking far more for flashes of talent to show through, and observe how they handle the adversity of being really unsuccessful.

And this in my "Truths" thread:

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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

I completely agree with this. Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco have created unrealistic expectations for rookie quarterbacks in recent years. We've gotta temper the expectations back down.

Like you said, you're looking for flashes of potential. You cannot expect them to be consistent from game to game, series to series, or even from play to play. Also, the biggest thing you're looking at is how he's carrying himself. How is he dealing with being the worst player on the field? Is he letting go of his mistakes and focusing on the next throw?

You're not really looking for him to LEAD (but that doesn't hurt), but you need to make sure he's still exhibiting confidence in himself. If you get that out of your rookie quarterback, plus some flashes and key drives/moments mixed in there, you've quite possibly got yourself a keeper. The key is the development that occurs in years two and three.

That's a huge reason why I liked Josh Freeman so much coming into this season. Was the overall body of work good? No. He was terrible. But you definitely saw flashes of potential greatness with him last year.

BeerBaron · 10-20-2010, 06:48 PM

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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman

Here's the problem with this logic: John Fox doesnt give a F about the Panthers future. In fact, if he's coaching an NFC team next year he probably wants it to be as screwed up as possible

Also, I can guarantee we hire some ball-less patsy coach next year. No chance Marty Hurney's chosen QB doesn't get another shot. If no real coach will commit to him, he's going to bring in Charlie Weis

See, that's when ownership/management needs to step in and make something happen. If Fox doesn't like it, let him resign. It's a big reason why I don't JA traded for any offensive line talent or anything like that....Ownership might be looking to go a different direction, and they don't want him mortgaging a future he might not be there for.

SchizophrenicBatman · 10-20-2010, 07:57 PM

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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

A post I made in the Stafford vs Bradford thread:

That's a huge reason why I liked Josh Freeman so much coming into this season. Was the overall body of work good? No. He was terrible. But you definitely saw flashes of potential greatness with him last year.

This is the problem with Clausen, though. He hasn't shown any potential. No flashes. His one good play was a blown coverage where he didnt even have to make a good throw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UElsAl_aqKA). But at least he stepped up in the pocket and found his open receiver on that play

I haven't seen one other play that suggests Clausen could be a good or even above average NFL QB. To be fair, I haven't seen enough to suggest he couldn't be either, because he doesn't even try. Honestly, throwing interceptions as a rookie isn't bad for the most part. I remember the game Freeman threw 5 picks against the Panthers last year. He was actually moving the ball, throwing down field and finding out what windows he could and could not throw into. The Bucs ended up losing because pretty much every time he got the ball into the red zone he gave it up, but he threw for over 300 yards and you could see potential there. Extremely raw potential that may or may not ever develop, but at least you saw something.

People always bring up Peyton throwing 28 interceptions his rookie year like he sucked besides that. No, he was an exceptionally advanced rookie having to adjust to a league well above his and his team's current ability where he was basically their entire offense (see: Bradford, Sam...even though honestly the Rams should have more of a running game with S-Jax, that's not how their coaching staff has played it). Clausen has only thrown 3 interceptions because he doesn't take risks. He doesn't try to play quarterback at an NFL level. He just looks for his underneath receiver (a la David Carr) or breaks the pocket (unnecessarily) so he can scramble and only have to look at one side of the field.

bucfan12 · 10-20-2010, 08:16 PM

I never liked Jimmy Clausen coming out specifically because he isn't really a leader. I read somewhere during the draft process when coaches were breaking down film with him, he "threw his WRs under the bus" on a few of his INTs. That was a huge flag right there because QBs, even when it isn't there fault, always take the blame on there shoulder.

He never seemed like he was a leader and really does seem like a "cocky douchebag." His attitude reminds me of Ryan Leaf, that is why he fell. Also, he wasn't really that good with all that talent around him. He broke out in his JR year, but looked lost and confused his freshman and sophomore years, when he was deemed a top notch QB prospect.

From watching him this year, he looks very average. His arm strength is above average at the NFL level, but he just doesn't have the look of a franchise QB. He hasn't shown any flashes of making NFL like throws and just looks to dump the ball off. Targets one side of the field and doesn't see the field very well.

If I am Carolina, I would just let him play out the rest of the year. Maybe he improves and maybe they find out if they have something in him, but honestly, I never liked him coming out and he just doesn't have the attitude to be a great QB.