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Old 09-24-2010, 10:41 PM    (permalink
SenorGato
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I'll take Revis.

At this point I no longer think Polamalu is overrated, so that's his thing. He's a bigger Bob Sanders who actually plays football once in a while.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
Look at the Steelers front 7, and then look at the Jets front 7. If you take Polamalu away from that Steelers D, I guarantee they still produce at a very high level. You take Revis away from the Jets, and all that fancy stuff Rex Ryan does with his pressure schemes goes to ****. The only reason that defense is so successful is because Revis can shut down his side of the field and it leaves Rex free to be creative.
Should of told this to Brady in the second half of the Jets game.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Not trying to make a different debate. But, what was Brian Dawkins like a Troy to Philly?
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:19 AM    (permalink
steelersfan43
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
Look at the Steelers front 7, and then look at the Jets front 7. If you take Polamalu away from that Steelers D, I guarantee they still produce at a very high level. You take Revis away from the Jets, and all that fancy stuff Rex Ryan does with his pressure schemes goes to ****. The only reason that defense is so successful is because Revis can shut down his side of the field and it leaves Rex free to be creative.
I hate this. No he doesnt shut down a side of the field. He can shut down one guy, and he got torched for a td last week....





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^ 2 recievers on his side, he can only stop 1
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Just because it has to be said, Whitlock is an idiot.
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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Nnamdi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revis
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by steelersfan43 View Post
I hate this. No he doesnt shut down a side of the field. He can shut down one guy, and he got torched for a td last week....





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^ 2 recievers on his side, he can only stop 1
Don't be ridiculous. He can shut down the oppositions #1 WR. He has two years of gaudy proof to back that up. Nnamdi Asomugha only shuts down on side of the field (not technically, no, but he only cover's one side of the field 90% of the time). Revis tweeked his hammy and wasn't playing full speed. It was bound to happen. It is, after all, still Randy Moss. The last 2 years, Revis has dominated Moss. He's absolutely dominated him. He matches up against Moss on about 95% of the plays too.

2009 - Week 2 - 4 Catches, 24 Yards, 0 TDs (Long of 9 Yards) - Revis had 1 INT, 1 Pass Def.
2009 - Week 11 - 5 Catches, 34 Yards, 1 TDs (Long of 13 Yards) - Revis had 3 Pass Def.

2008 - Week 2 - 2 Catches, 22 Yards, 0 TDs (Long of 14 Yards) - Revis had 1 Pass Def.
2008 - Week 11 - 3 Catches, 26 Yards, 1 TDs (Long of 16 Yards) * Beat Ty Law for TD

That's why Revis is considered by many to be the best corner in the game. He doesn't sit there and cover the #2 or #3 or #4 WRs on a consistent basis. Revis lines up across from Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, and every other #1 WR he faces. And he does it all day long. He allows the NY Jets to dictate the game. He single handedly takes away a teams #1 passing option. Whoever that may be.

With Oakland and Nnamdi Asomugha, the offense can dictate how they attack him. Opposing teams can stick their #2 or #3 option out there and he can take away that, but a teams #1 WR can still gash Chris Johnson, one of the worst CBs in the NFL because of Asomugha, all day long.

When Andre Johnson faces the Jets and Revis lines up across from him all day, he ends up with 4 catches for 35 yards and becomes a non factor. Very few CBs can do that, or are even asked to do that.

Charles Woodson is asked to do a lot, he cover's TEs, he blitzes probably more than any other CB in the NFL, plays all kinds of zone coverages and still manages to follow a teams #1 WR for a great majority of the game. And then, he creates turnovers and does a great job against the run.

These are complete CBs. Nnamdi Asomugha? Not so much. Could he do everything Woodson and Revis do? Probably, but Oakland is full of retards that play man coverage all day with a safety high. They are about as bland as any defensive team in the NFL.


APS, is just an idiot and made one stupid comment after another in this thread, and then bragged about making stupid comments in other threads and quoted himself to prove how stupid he is. That's a very rare kind of obliviousness.


Quote:
If you take Polamalu away from that Steelers D, I guarantee they still produce at a very high level.
Fortunately, those of us who watched football last year have seen what happens when the Steelers don't have Polamalu. And we can all advise you, that no, the Steelers do not produce at a high level.

Quote:
Polamalu has nothing on Revis.
Yeah, shut up. Just stop talking.


It's very hard to compare which player is better. Revis is one of the very best at his position and Polamalu is the best at his position. Polamalu does more than any other safety in the game. Also, his pass defense has now gotten better than his run defense. Most people might be weary of that, but he has improved that much over the last 4 years against the pass. He takes a terrible secondary and makes them really good. He takes a good defense and makes them elite.

A lot of people are saying, "You guys are forgetting about their front 7." No one is forgetting about their front 7. It's one of, if not, the best in all of football. I might take Dallas over Pittsburgh. Minnesota is up there as well, but that's about it. There's no debating that, but that doesn't hurt Polamalu. Without Polamalu, the Steelers don't have a weak secondary, they have a terrible one. Ike "Brick Hands" Taylor is probably a top 20 CB with Polamalu. Without him, he's terrible, and after thought on a terrible secondary. Bryant McFadden was one of the worst CBs in the NFL last year. Now, he almost tolerable. Ryan Clark is a good player, but merely average without Troy.

Like Ray Lewis, Polamalu just makes everyone around him better. He's still not 100% after his injury last year. Doesn't have the same burst and quickness he did. In 2008, there was not a defensive player better than him. 2009, he came out just as good, if not better. He was incredible. He's had 13 INTs & 26 Passes Defended in his last 23 games. He has developed into a complete player instead of the more one-dimensional heat seeking missile he was coming out of college. The guy is simply amazing. I've considered him to be the best defensive player in the NFL since 2008. His injury has set him back a little bit, but he's still in the discussion. Revis is among the elite defensive players as well.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I think Troy Polamalu has potential to be considered the GOAT at safety by the end of his career.


Having said that, I'll take Revis. Revis is the best CB in the game, 1 of only 2 true shutdown CBs left in today's era of football. I'll take him and what he brings to the table over a safety any day.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Posted this in the other thread:




Polamalu has nothing on Revis.
Wow that quote from the other thread is so patently false it's laughable. Any Steeler fan that watches the team regularly will tell you that the defense has gotten better with Troy playing further away from the line of scrimmage. He had to do more when we were getting less pressure on the QB with our front seven. With Harrison and Woodley kicking ass he plays more coverage and our pass defense has improved tremendously. Troy has 12 picks in his last 23 games including 5 in his last 7.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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I think Troy Polamalu has potential to be considered the GOAT at safety by the end of his career.


Having said that, I'll take Revis. Revis is the best CB in the game, 1 of only 2 true shutdown CBs left in today's era of football. I'll take him and what he brings to the table over a safety any day.
I think Polamalu is the 3rd best safety of his generation. 2nd at best IMO.

That said, I'd much prefer a guy that can control the deep middle and force a ton of turnovers over a guy that locks down one guy and takes him out of the game.

I just prefer a safety over a CB by a lot.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Id take Revis and I dont think it is my Ravens bias. I would rather have a elite shutdown CB then a elite S. IMO S is a luxury position. And now adays with these rules I would take Revis.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Well, I think the top 3 defenses of the 2000's had the top 3 safeties.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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who the Ravens, Steelers and who else?


But the 2000 Ravens didnt have Reed. They had Kim Herring and Rod Woodson at S. Woodson was a pro bowler but he never was at the level Polamalu or Reed were.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Well, I think the top 3 defenses of the 2000's had the top 3 safeties.
John Lynch? No way.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Woodson was a pro bowler but he never was at the level Polamalu or Reed were.
Gwah?

Rod Woodson, a first ballot HOF'er, former defensive player of the year, modern-era interception leader was absolutely at their level.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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not at his time in Baltimore. In 2000 Woodson had 4 INTs and in 2001 for the Ravens he had 3 picks. He was still a very good player but in those 2 years he wasnt at the Reed and Polamalu level.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Nnamdi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revis
I agree with you.

also: Safeties are more important than corners? When did this happen?
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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who the Ravens, Steelers and who else?


But the 2000 Ravens didnt have Reed. They had Kim Herring and Rod Woodson at S. Woodson was a pro bowler but he never was at the level Polamalu or Reed were.
Eagles. Jim Johnson really had that defense near the top for almost the entire decade, his biggest playmaker was the safety Brian Dawkins who was better than Troy P.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Importance is hard to measure. I think though that a really good CB can give the D more predictability in how the offense plays, so if the style of the D is to dictate how the O plays them, a really good CB is probably more valuable. On the other hand, a really good S is probably going to do more statistical stuff because he's harder for an O to try and avoid. Stats don't mean more importance though - just more exposure. Really, if one D has a top S and one D has a top CB, both are probably as important as each other for their respective D's because that's how their D is built.

I do agree that the CB position is becomming less valuable as a whole though due to rule changes and what not. The elite few are exceptions, but these are getting harder to find so I think if I were building a D i'd probably try and go the top S route.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Werowance View Post
Eagles. Jim Johnson really had that defense near the top for almost the entire decade, his biggest playmaker was the safety Brian Dawkins who was better than Troy P.
Yea, no. The Eagles were never as good as the Bucs defenses.

But John Lynch was definitely not one of the 3 best safeties of the 2000s.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Yea, no. The Eagles were never as good as the Bucs defenses.

But John Lynch was definitely not one of the 3 best safeties of the 2000s.
The top 3 defenses of the 2000s, meaning over the course of the decade. Those defenses were the Ravens, Steelers and Eagles. Under Jim Johnson, the Eagles have ranked near the top in almost every important defensive category in the last decade. Since 2000 (these numbers are from 7/24/09), the Eagles have been second in sacks (390), tied for second in tackles for a loss (457), second in forced fumbles (159), second in red zone efficiency (43.9 percent), and second in third down efficiency (34 percent). During the Johnson era, the Eagles have finished fourth in the NFL in points allowed -- just 17.7 per game. The Eagles were one of the top 3 defenses of the decade.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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if u guy by specific years though the top 3 defenses would be 2000 Ravens, 2001 Bucs, and i guess 2008 Steelers. the steelers definetly had a elite S. The Ravens not so much, and IDK if you could consider Lynch elite in 2001, I honestly dont really remember. The Ravens and Bucs had very good Safety play, but IDK if I would have considered Lynch and Woodson elite in those years.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I still maintain that a healthy Aaron Smith is more important to the Pitt D than Troy. The two years he's gone down, their defense has turned into an absolute sieve. Troy P was playing when Smith went down in 2007 and their defense was abysmal going down the stretch. Same goes for last year, where he only played in two games.
This guy knows what he is talking about. Aaron Smith is the key to our D.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you.

also: Safeties are more important than corners? When did this happen?
They have the best view.

I think even Revis the Jets' D would blow minds and set records if it had a great free safety...I think the Steelers would really, really love a great corner and I know they wanted Revis when he was coming out despite having Troy P...sooo...really it's not such a big deal after all.
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:32 AM    (permalink
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I agree with you.

also: Safeties are more important than corners? When did this happen?
i still dont quite get where the Revis hype comes from
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