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Old 09-26-2010, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
i still dont quite get where the Revis hype comes from
he's good, but I just think Nnamdi is better. I guess the thing is Revis works in NYC and Nnamdi in Oakland. Big difference.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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i still dont quite get where the Revis hype comes from
Because he was awesome last year? Dude was left on an island, targeted a whole bunch of times, and allowed a ridiculously small number of those attempts to be completed. He had a great season for a cornerback.
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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FWIW I think Safeties are more valuable than CBs. I'm not understanding the CB love lately. A CB duo is only as strong as the weakest link. I know having Revis there allows the Jets to do a ton of stuff with rotating the coverage to the other side, but if the guys on the other side can't cover, that doesn't do a whole lot of good.

To see the impact of a safety, just look at Polamalu. He's pretty much everything to that defense. I don't think it's a coincidence that where you find a great safety, there is usually a great defense. That doesn't work the other way. In the years before last season when Champ, and then Nnamdi after that, were considered the best CBs, the Broncos and Raiders weren't consistently putting dominant defenses out there.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I definitely value corners more then safties. Revis literally erases the other teams best receiver from the game.

Troy is a different type of difference maker. He creates turnovers and really makes the defense complete. He may not shut down an individual player, but he is the piece that makes this defense elite.

I wouldn't tray Troy for any defensive player.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Because he was awesome last year? Dude was left on an island, targeted a whole bunch of times, and allowed a ridiculously small number of those attempts to be completed. He had a great season for a cornerback.
he had a great pass rush, a lot of help on top actually and still was targeted 100 times
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
he had a great pass rush, a lot of help on top actually and still was targeted 100 times
And barely allowed any catches. That would seem to be the most vital piece of information you're ignoring.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
he had a great pass rush, a lot of help on top actually and still was targeted 100 times
IIRC, out of those hundred times, thirty something were completions, which is a far lower percentage than anyone who played enough to make it a valid comparison.

Against guys like Reggie Wayne, Terrell Owens, Chad OchoCinco, Andre Johnson and Randy Moss.

You don't understand the hype? Really? It's fairly cut and dry.

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Old 09-26-2010, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Nnamdi was targeted 100 times the last three seasons altogether, you dont hear nearly enough about him anywhere
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Nnamdi was targeted 100 times the last three seasons altogether, you dont hear nearly enough about him anywhere
Asomugha is a concensus top three NFL conrerback. Yes we do.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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on this board, yes. but you heard about Revis every single day the whole season + offseason, you hardly heard that about Nnamdi this last 3 years.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Most people here haven't even ever seen a Raiders game in the past 3 years.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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on this board, yes. but you heard about Revis every single day the whole season + offseason, you hardly heard that about Nnamdi this last 3 years.
And every single time someone mentioned Revis here, three seconds later I'd hear Woodson. Four and three quarters seconds later, I'd hear Asomugha.


I "don't" hear about Nnamdi Asomugha about as much as I "don't" hear about Ryan Mallett on these forums. And no, I'm not comparing Nnamdi Asomugha with Ryan Mallett. Just that I "don't hear about them" constantly.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Flowers > Revis.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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I cant' believe I agree with Whitlock again!
But he's right. I have said before that I think Polamalu is the best player in the NFL, QB's included. I think them losing him last year kind of showed that. That defense was not even a shell of it's normal self without his glue back there.

And for the record, Charles Woodson was the best CB in the NFL last year, not Revis.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/B...-Truths-092310
J-Mike88 you are a wise man, I concur with your speculation.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I, for one, while I do value safeties and appreciate how great a playmaking safety is, feel they're getting a bit too much love in general. The Giants won a Super Bowl with Gibril Wilson and James Butler. so yea, there's that.
I know I'll get the "blah blah blah PASS RUSH ZOMGZ PASS RUSH".
But I'll take a CB who can hold the other team's #1 WR to virtually nothing and shut him down. Not going to say anything on T-Pain or Revis because this **** is just too funny.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Flowers > Revis.
Aqib Talib > Brandon Flowers > Revis.

Fixed it for ya. :)
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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i still dont quite get where the Revis hype comes from
Well, then you probably didn't watch much of Revis last season, and as such your opinion is highly biased to begin with. To say you prefer Troy is one thing. To say this is another. Anything you've said has little meaning now.

The things Troy does are absolutely amazing. He's a game changer in every sense. What Revis did last season was IMO just as amazing, if not more, than what Troy does, only it doesn't necessarily provide the highlight reel plays that many adore. Revis last season was unlike any other corner i've ever seen in terms of coverage (Dion this, Dion that, new rules). However, i want to see him duplicate something close to it (no one will likely duplicate it over an entire season). On the flip side, Troy is amazing, done it over multiple seasons, but has injuries constantly to deal with. Great when he plays....but lets see him stay healthy for an entire season....

Take either, it really doesn't matter. People appear to be set with their thoughts, and there isn't a magical correct answer coming.....but i like the debate.


Lastly, Nnamdi is too amazing, but needs to vacate Oakland to get anywhere media-wise. His 'you never hear about him' card is getting old though. Say that on the streets, not on this football forum. It doesn't fool anyone....
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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FWIW I think Safeties are more valuable than CBs. I'm not understanding the CB love lately. A CB duo is only as strong as the weakest link. I know having Revis there allows the Jets to do a ton of stuff with rotating the coverage to the other side, but if the guys on the other side can't cover, that doesn't do a whole lot of good.

To see the impact of a safety, just look at Polamalu. He's pretty much everything to that defense. I don't think it's a coincidence that where you find a great safety, there is usually a great defense. That doesn't work the other way. In the years before last season when Champ, and then Nnamdi after that, were considered the best CBs, the Broncos and Raiders weren't consistently putting dominant defenses out there.
You know what's always perplexed me? How Denver's defense completely fell off the face of the earth in the middle of the 2006 seasons. Overnight, they went from one of the league's best units to one of the worst I've ever seen. They've been recovering since then.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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Nnamdi was targeted 100 times the last three seasons altogether, you dont hear nearly enough about him anywhere
It has been said multiple times. Revis has always followed the other number 1, Nnamdi stayed on his side. Teams could get away from Nnamdi by switching their best receiver over.

No team is going to simply IGNORE their best WR. The fact that Revis only allowed like 3.6 YPA is simply going over your head? He was like a full yard better than whoever was second...
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Nnamdi was targeted 100 times the last three seasons altogether, you dont hear nearly enough about him anywhere
Silly argument when you can just run on the Raiders rather than throw against them. They coulden't stop the run for a while already and with the overpaid Tommy Kelly, I don't think things will change a whole lot.

Jets had good blitz packages but every Jet fan can agree with me that they don't have an elite pass rusher. Pace is solid but he isn't a Woodley type of guy who comes after the throat of a QB.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout View Post
Jets had good blitz packages but every Jet fan can agree with me that they don't have an elite pass rusher. Pace is solid but he isn't a Woodley type of guy who comes after the throat of a QB.
Our pass rush is actually pathetic for how much we blitz. Most frustrating thing. Even when we bring the house we don't get there that often.

Look at how much we blitz, and then we sit in the middle of the field in sacks. Ugh.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Another thing is while its not his fault, Aso has yet to be on a winning team or appear in the playoffs as opposed to Revis who had a strong postseason last year.

Its the same argument I hold for Andre Johnson vs Larry Fitzgerald. Playoff time/crunch time does matter and Aso has very rarely experienced such.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AHungryWalrus View Post
Our pass rush is actually pathetic for how much we blitz. Most frustrating thing. Even when we bring the house we don't get there that often.

Look at how much we blitz, and then we sit in the middle of the field in sacks. Ugh.
Yeah we were terrible on Henne for instance this Sunday. Had 1 sack by Taylor and I think Ellis got around on him early but then things clamped and the solid Dolphins O-Line had its way as the game progressed.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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Our pass rush is actually pathetic for how much we blitz. Most frustrating thing. Even when we bring the house we don't get there that often.

Look at how much we blitz, and then we sit in the middle of the field in sacks. Ugh.
Can you imagine how insane the Jets defense would be if Vernon Gholston hadn't busted?
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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Can you imagine how insane the Jets defense would be if Vernon Gholston hadn't busted?
Every time I see his name I think of that, actually...

Ugh. Demarcus Ware for VG... come on Dallas...
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