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Old 10-07-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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The only ones on that list I'd be okay with are Favre and Gonzales, since it's pretty much a given they'll retire at the end of this season. The rest still have a handful of years where they can significantly impact their position on the rankings.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
The only ones on that list I'd be okay with are Favre and Gonzales, since it's pretty much a given they'll retire at the end of this season. The rest still have a handful of years where they can significantly impact their position on the rankings.
k that's fine with me.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Bump.

1. Dick Butkus
2. Ray Lewis

Ray Nitschke (7)
Mike Singletary (4)
Willie Lanier (3)
Jack Lambert (1)

Other candidates (in the order they occurred to me)...
Sam Huff
Joe Schmidt
Harry Carson
Randy Gradishar
Sam Mills
Lee Roy Jordan

anyone else deserve mention?
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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anyone else deserve mention?
Zach Thomas.

but on a serious note, I vote Ray Nitschke (8)
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Old 10-08-2010, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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anyone else deserve mention?
Bill George, an 8-time 1st team All-Pro for the Bears in the 50's and early 60s.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...G/GeorBi00.htm
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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bumpity bump bump

everyone get your votes in!
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Lambert. Yup.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Bump.

1. Dick Butkus
2. Ray Lewis

Ray Nitschke (7)
Mike Singletary (4)
Willie Lanier (3)
Jack Lambert (1)

Other candidates (in the order they occurred to me)...
Sam Huff
Joe Schmidt
Harry Carson
Randy Gradishar
Sam Mills
Lee Roy Jordan

anyone else deserve mention?
Chuck Bednarik
E.J. Holub
Tommy Nobis
Nick Buoniconti
Mike Curtis
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Bednarik was mostly an outside linebacker, wasn't he?
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Bednarik was mostly an outside linebacker, wasn't he?
I remembered him in the middle, Frank Gifford would know, or maybe not.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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PFR has him listed as a LLB for the vast majority of his career.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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PFR has him listed as a LLB for the vast majority of his career.
I'd say scratch him then but he'd probably hunt us down and hurt us, he was a tough sob.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Ray Nitschke (8)

The 24 hour clock has started if noone has another vote by this time tomm. Nitschke will get the spot.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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I'll go Nitschke.

Lanier was damn good too. Man. Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier and Jim Lynch. What a sick LB group.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:22 AM    (permalink
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I'd say scratch him then but he'd probably hunt us down and hurt us, he was a tough sob.
Yeah, that was a pretty bad miss in the OLB voting. What a shame.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:01 AM    (permalink
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My response was directed at Lewis as a player in the 3-4, not the entire defensive unit. I know what I saw with my eyes, and he wasn't the best 3-4 linebacker in the NFL. That's what the original argument was. He was a very nice playmaker in that scheme, but I know what I saw with my two eyes - he was too small to play in it and it led to injuries and struggles against the run.

And, really, who cares about the coaching tree stuff? Does the fact that Tony Dungy sprouted his own coaching tree of Tampa Two guys make Derrick Brooks the best OLB ever? I mean, that Bucs defense was damn good for a long time, right up there with the Ravens for that 90s-early 2000s. Or would the credit for that go to Jack Lambert, on whom the Noll (and subsequent Dungy) coaching tree was founded upon? What about Rex and Rob Ryan? Is Mike Singletary the reason for their success, since their dad coached them in Chicago? You can do that with just about any great player.

I'm not trying to knock on Ray Lewis, because I love him as a player. He's been one of my favorite players to watch ever. But he's definitely not a guy you casually dismiss all-time greats like Lambert and Singletary for, especially when you consider how much more brutal and physically demanding the era they played in was.

I'm not sure how you can substantiate that claim.
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:41 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, that was a pretty bad miss in the OLB voting. What a shame.
Doesn't matter. Anyone over 30 looks at these threads, laughs, and mutters "stupid kids," anyway. This forum thinks that the NFL started in 2000.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure how you can substantiate that claim.
There were basically no rules in existence for player safety and teams ran the ball 75% of the time. It's a far cry from the basketball on grass era we see today, where you have to hit people between their shoulders and hips and you have to do it nicely and make sure you apologize and hug after the tackle is made.

Guys are bigger now, but the violence of the game is far more controlled than it used to be.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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There were basically no rules in existence for player safety and teams ran the ball 75% of the time. It's a far cry from the basketball on grass era we see today, where you have to hit people between their shoulders and hips and you have to do it nicely and make sure you apologize and hug after the tackle is made.

Guys are bigger now, but the violence of the game is far more controlled than it used to be.
Well if things are closely watched and there are so many rules Ray Lewis got all his stats and everything having to worry about where and when he hits someone at all times. Wouldn't it be harder to play as a defender in todays game than before? Ray is the G.O.A.T.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Well if things are closely watched and there are so many rules Ray Lewis got all his stats and everything having to worry about where and when he hits someone at all times. Wouldn't it be harder to play as a defender in todays game than before? Ray is the G.O.A.T.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm as big of a Ray Lewis fan anywhere and even I have to admit that that argument is terrible.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Explain to me why it was harder for a defensive player back in the day compared to today? I mean it sounds like to me the game got harder for defense and easier for offense. I'm pretty sure Ray's stats are way better than just about any other MLB. He has dominated at his position for over 10 years. What more do you want out of a LB? It's funny how people say that a lot of people think football started in 2000 but there are a lot of people who think just because someone played a long time ago there isn't anyone recently who can be better.
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We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

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Old 10-13-2010, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Explain to me why it was harder for a defensive player back in the day compared to today? I mean it sounds like to me the game got harder for defense and easier for offense.
Nobody said it was harder, I said it was more physically demanding and brutal. Reading comprehension ftw.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:20 PM    (permalink
RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
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Nobody said it was harder, I said it was more physically demanding and brutal. Reading comprehension ftw.
This is what you said "I'm not trying to knock on Ray Lewis, because I love him as a player. He's been one of my favorite players to watch ever. But he's definitely not a guy you casually dismiss all-time greats like Lambert and Singletary for, especially when you consider how much more brutal and physically demanding the era they played in was."

So what exactly was your point when you said you don't dismiss all time greats like Lambert and Singletary because of the era?
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Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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He's saying that a player's proximity to your lifespan doesn't make that player better in any objective sense. Which is correct.

I don't necessarily think that one type of game was obviously more demanding than another. This modern game requires more dedication from it's athletes, demands that they stay in peak physical form later into their careers. The old game was one where, as a defender, an offensive line could attack your knees while you were engaged while your man tries to gouge your eye out. They had their unique difficulties.
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