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Old 10-15-2010, 01:49 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Originally Posted by etk View Post
.......Saints are the defending Super Bowl champs. I don't think the Saints even know why they're struggling...it just happens....
Reggie Bush and Pierre Thomas have a few guesses, so does Darren Sharper, the All Pro safety from a year ago who saved them about 3 games last season.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Reggie Bush and Pierre Thomas have a few guesses, so does Darren Sharper, the All Pro safety from a year ago who saved them about 3 games last season.
I agree to an extent but the Saints issues go a lot deeper than that. I'll have a full answer on Sunday when I get to see a whole game.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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As much as I love Brees I have to say he is also making lesser throws, even the deep bomb of last week was quite underthrown.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I agree to an extent but the Saints issues go a lot deeper than that. I'll have a full answer on Sunday when I get to see a whole game.
Here's the best way I can explain it when people say it can't just be this one injury, or that one guy missing, etc....

Think about a high performance sports car.

One cylinder goes out. OK, the car still goes on. It still looks pretty good.
But eventually something else goes out because of the extra wear & tear on the parts remaining..... and on, and on, and on.

Missing both the featured running back, and the multi-talented RB Bush takes a huge toll on an offense.

And Sharper on defense last year was almost the DPOY. He made big plays, sealed some games for them. That can't be replaced. They had some luck last year too, beating Minny in the NFCCG even though they were totally outplayed.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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As much as I love Brees I have to say he is also making lesser throws, even the deep bomb of last week was quite underthrown.
This.

I won't pretend to be a Saints know-it-all but whenever I turn on their games Brees and the offense looks out-of-sync. imo a RB doesn't make that big of a difference, unless it's a guy like Adrian Peterson. RBs are pretty interchangeable imo, although Bush is a nice weapon overall that can't be replaced.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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This.

I won't pretend to be a Saints know-it-all but whenever I turn on their games Brees and the offense looks out-of-sync. imo a RB doesn't make that big of a difference, unless it's a guy like Adrian Peterson. RBs are pretty interchangeable imo, although Bush is a nice weapon overall that can't be replaced.
See, for a team like the Saints or even the Packers, the RB isn't as interchangeable as it would be on a heavy running team due to all the things they are required to do as part of the passing game.

Pierre Thomas may not be a world-beater as a runner, but he's super versatile and plays a big role in their passing game as a blocker and check down option. Bush too when he is in there, and he can also split out wide.

Those two guys go out, and the Saints are left with journeyman Ladell Betts and UDFA Chris Ivory. Neither is going to pick up the complexities of the passing game to be as effective as Thomas or Bush, and that is hamstringing the Saints right now.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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See, for a team like the Saints or even the Packers, the RB isn't as interchangeable as it would be on a heavy running team due to all the things they are required to do as part of the passing game.

Pierre Thomas may not be a world-beater as a runner, but he's super versatile and plays a big role in their passing game as a blocker and check down option. Bush too when he is in there, and he can also split out wide.

Those two guys go out, and the Saints are left with journeyman Ladell Betts and UDFA Chris Ivory. Neither is going to pick up the complexities of the passing game to be as effective as Thomas or Bush, and that is hamstringing the Saints right now.
I agree to this to a certain extend with this statement but Brees is just making bad throws at times which he barely did last season. I agree that he is also getting a tougher hand at times but he is also throwing to wrong shoulders, missing his deep balls by miles and just not hitting receivers he would every single time last season.

But with that being said it doesnt help that his easy decisions/dumpoffs are being taken away. Thomas is almost irreplacable in the screen game and bush is just a special matchup problem (who ive defended very often on this side although people are now overestimating his importance, PT is just as if not more important for this offense as noone is better in running screens than he is)
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Old 10-15-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Madden Curse. Why do players keep going on the cover?
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I agree to this to a certain extend with this statement but Brees is just making bad throws at times which he barely did last season. I agree that he is also getting a tougher hand at times but he is also throwing to wrong shoulders, missing his deep balls by miles and just not hitting receivers he would every single time last season.

But with that being said it doesnt help that his easy decisions/dumpoffs are being taken away. Thomas is almost irreplacable in the screen game and bush is just a special matchup problem (who ive defended very often on this side although people are now overestimating his importance, PT is just as if not more important for this offense as noone is better in running screens than he is)
This year I've only watched one Saints game but I thought Reggie Bush really opened up the linebackers and confused the safeties making it easier for Brees to find an open receiver. They also ran a ton of screens that looked like they worked because of good game planning and awesome OL play but maybe they're not able to run those without Bush. JMO, maybe Brees is making those bad throws because he's trying to force it into tighter coverage because the screens aren't working.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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See, for a team like the Saints or even the Packers, the RB isn't as interchangeable as it would be on a heavy running team due to all the things they are required to do as part of the passing game.

Pierre Thomas may not be a world-beater as a runner, but he's super versatile and plays a big role in their passing game as a blocker and check down option. Bush too when he is in there, and he can also split out wide.

Those two guys go out, and the Saints are left with journeyman Ladell Betts and UDFA Chris Ivory. Neither is going to pick up the complexities of the passing game to be as effective as Thomas or Bush, and that is hamstringing the Saints right now.

That's very true, but people also need to consider how lucky the Saints were, and how many small breaks that went in their favor last year. Also consider as someone mentioned Darren Sharper is not there and how many turnovers he created that turned into 6 points, hell the entire defense was creating turnovers at an uncanny rate and scoring off of the turnover or on the next possession. It's alot easier to win games when those things are happening.


I'm also not seeing the Marques Colston from a few years ago, he's been pretty average recently for whatever reason. I know he is a good WR, but not sure if he's not getting targeted or what, but he should go back to being that go to guy, especially when they are missing weapons and right now he looks like just an average guy out there.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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That's very true, but people also need to consider how lucky the Saints were, and how many small breaks that went in their favor last year. Also consider as someone mentioned Darren Sharper is not there and how many turnovers he created that turned into 6 points, hell the entire defense was creating turnovers at an uncanny rate and scoring off of the turnover or on the next possession. It's alot easier to win games when those things are happening.
I refuse to buy into Darren Sharper being that good of a player. Maybe whoever they replaced him with is just god awful and that's the problem. Last year, not to take anything away from them, the Saints had a ton of luck during games and with injuries. This year, they are on the other side of it.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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I refuse to buy into Darren Sharper being that good of a player. Maybe whoever they replaced him with is just god awful and that's the problem. Last year, not to take anything away from them, the Saints had a ton of luck during games and with injuries. This year, they are on the other side of it.
I don't think Malcolm Jenkins has been that bad......and Sharper was really dominating for them. He's the king of timely pick 6's......he's either first or second all time in them iirc. He was doing something right.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I refuse to buy into Darren Sharper being that good of a player. Maybe whoever they replaced him with is just god awful and that's the problem. Last year, not to take anything away from them, the Saints had a ton of luck during games and with injuries. This year, they are on the other side of it.
Overall as a player/safety no he's not that good but a pick 6 speaks for itself, especially when it comes in crucial times of the games. Even if you replace that with a guy who has better coverage skills but isn't making as many plays on the ball that can be the difference between winning and losing a close game.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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I suppose I can believe that his style of play fit the Saints perfectly and Jenkins doesn't very well, but I'd like to add that he got a little lucky too. Credit him for the execution, but he wasn't making crazy diving interceptions or line toeing catches, he was the benefit of a lot of mistakes.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes taking advantage of the other team's mistakes can be the best thing you can do for your team. And it's harder to do than it may seem.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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I refuse to buy into Darren Sharper being that good of a player.
Don't let a funny thing like evidence, production, or a bunch of pick-6's change your mind.

I know, I know.....the Packers let Sharper go a few years ago so he must not have been any good anymore right? Like Jon Ryan, Longwell, Favre, etc.

This guy has had the knack for coming up with key interceptions, pick 6's with the Vikings and Saints since we discarded him, and he keeps getting paid for those reasons.

I do wonder how and when he got hurt though. Anyone know that?
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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Don't let a funny thing like evidence, production, or a bunch of pick-6's change your mind.

I know, I know.....the Packers let Sharper go a few years ago so he must not have been any good anymore right? Like Jon Ryan, Longwell, Favre, etc.

This guy has had the knack for coming up with key interceptions, pick 6's with the Vikings and Saints since we discarded him, and he keeps getting paid for those reasons.

I do wonder how and when he got hurt though. Anyone know that?
I'm not really even positively sure, but I believe in the Off-season he had knee surgery for something that was bothering him through out last season... and he was still recovering from it which is why he was placed on the PUP list.

According to Sharper he was ready to start the season, but the team didn't feel that way apparently.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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We really aren't missing Sharper. The defense is playing well despite how poor the offense is, and Jenkins in particular is balling.

The major issue is that Colston is being doubled, and no one else is capable of busting coverage.

We need that other guy in there to draw double teams on passing downs, and Reggie is that.

And like someone said, Brees is forcing bad throws because Bush isn't there. Bush is a guy that on every single passing down, if no one gets open, we can come back to him and get 6-7 yards, and that sustains drives.

We also lost a game on a chip shot field goal, and even this week the whole dynamic changes if we tie it up with a freaking 30 yarder... we wouldn't have to force the issue leading to the pick 6 at the end, because it would have been tied up.

We were so "lucky" last year according to everyone, but we could easily be 4-1, and very close to 5-0 if not for terribly blown field goals. I don't consider makign 30 yarders part of luck.

We almost blew some easy wins this year though, but I like the grit the team showed to close out those close wins.

It's not gloom and doom yet for me. We've played poorly, sloppy, and we are pretty banged up, but our record isn't that bad, and tehre are some positives coming out of this (notably the growth of Jenkins and Patrick Robinson in the wake of injuries).
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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We really aren't missing Sharper. The defense is playing well despite how poor the offense is, and Jenkins in particular is balling.

The major issue is that Colston is being doubled, and no one else is capable of busting coverage.

We need that other guy in there to draw double teams on passing downs, and Reggie is that.

And like someone said, Brees is forcing bad throws because Bush isn't there. Bush is a guy that on every single passing down, if no one gets open, we can come back to him and get 6-7 yards, and that sustains drives.

We also lost a game on a chip shot field goal, and even this week the whole dynamic changes if we tie it up with a freaking 30 yarder... we wouldn't have to force the issue leading to the pick 6 at the end, because it would have been tied up.

We were so "lucky" last year according to everyone, but we could easily be 4-1, and very close to 5-0 if not for terribly blown field goals. I don't consider makign 30 yarders part of luck.

We almost blew some easy wins this year though, but I like the grit the team showed to close out those close wins.

It's not gloom and doom yet for me. We've played poorly, sloppy, and we are pretty banged up, but our record isn't that bad, and tehre are some positives coming out of this (notably the growth of Jenkins and Patrick Robinson in the wake of injuries).
I agree with parts of it but I would like to say that Brees has been sloppy, also on throws he didnt force or had to throw. Most specifically, his deep ball is off
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Yea, I think the knee is bothering him, and he won't say it. His passes just don't seem crisp. Both his INTs were the result of underthrowing a guy that he would normally get it to, and like you said, even the TD was an underthrow that MEachem had to fall down to get.

Madden curse, you know that injury was coming.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Running.......
On record, is everybody picking the Giants to make it to the Super Bowl now, or will one of these Big 4 rally?

Quite often, the best team in late October is not the best team come January. That's pretty obvious. Just as the best team in August isn't.

I'll go on record today and say the Giants will win the NFC.
Well-balanced running & passing game.
QB & Coach who has won it before.
Defense kills QBs.
Deep DL.
Haven't had 11 guys go on IR already and another 8 guys miss games like the Packers have.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Also, why is everyone surprised with the Saints sucking again? The NFL history is littered with "one-and-done" one-hit-wonder Super Bowl champs. It happens. A team gets exceedingly lucky one year, gets all the breaks, and takes some marginal talent all the way to the Super Bowl.

No doubt Drew Brees is a solid quarterback, but there is simply no way for a team like the Saints to be a "dynasty" or even a pernennial division winner. 2009 was an incredibly flukey and lucky year for their defense and offense. It seemed, in 2009, that every ball bounced into a Saints player's hands that year.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Talking

The new Big 4 is clearly the Bucs, Seahawks, Falcons, and Giants.
Ha!
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Madden Curse. Why do players keep going on the cover?
Because they don't buy into the idea that a picture on a video game box somehow magically affects football games.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay will heat up at the end of the season. One could still make an argument for the NO Saints, but I don't buy that they are going to be any better than a wildcard team this year. Min an Dallas are both out. Minnesota especially if they lose yet again this weekend.
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