The Cameron Newton Thread

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by DaBrowns41

Well, I won't disagree with that at all, and I was wondering when somebody would make that mention.

And the Matt Jones comparison is very legit. Same athletic build, questionable hands and route running.

But I think that's what separates Pryor. The receivers above will never be #1's or even #2's. They are slot receivers, or guys that can burn you down field.

Pryor would be more of a 3rd down/possession receiver and with enough work could become at worst a solid #2.

But it's going to require A LOT of work. You don't just switch positions in the NFL over night.

Pryor could be Pro Bowl TE. He's already too big to be a WR. His freaking legs are huge.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by DaBrowns41

I agree with this, and of all the big, scramblers, I would rank Newton above Young and Young way above Pryor in terms of throwing ability.

Young made a lot of plays on his feet, but he knew how to find his receivers and he has shown that ability in the NFL. For as weak of an arm as Young seems to have, he's the most efficient passer in the NFL going into week 10 in passes over 20 yards.

That being said, I think Newton puts more zip on the ball and has steady accuracy. He doesn't try to force the ball in and he can hit the passes on the sidelines especially well. I think he needs work throwing to the middle, and he needs to learn to go through his progressions, but when you have the athletic ability that he does, it's hard not to tuck and run when you have 10 yards right in front of you.

I actually like Newton as a 2nd round guy, but in comparison to Tebow and Young, who were both very iffy passers in college, Newton has them beat in passing ability, and I think there will be a team that takes a chance on him in the first.

I do think Locker has the higher ceiling, and Newton's name shouldn't even be mentioned with Luck who is the best prospect in the nation, IMO. But Newton still looks like he can be a solid NFL QB.

Curious, how does Locker have a higher ceiling? A ceiling refers to how great a prospect can be if they achieve all they are capable of achieving at their position. I can't imagine anyone having a higher ceiling than Cam.

[nepg]

Depends on whether you'd rather have John Elway or Prime Daunte Culpepper, I guess.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Pryor could be Pro Bowl TE. He's already too big to be a WR. His freaking legs are huge.

Converting to TE implies that you'll try to block or catch passes in traffic subjecting yourself to hits from safeties and linebackers.

Not sure that would be an easy switch from QB.

Originally Posted by nepg

Depends on whether you'd rather have John Elway or Prime Daunte Culpepper, I guess.

Locker is more Steve Young than Elway.

[DaBrowns41]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Curious, how does Locker have a higher ceiling? A ceiling refers to how great a prospect can be if they achieve all they are capable of achieving at their position. I can't imagine anyone having a higher ceiling than Cam.

I mean, let's not all jump on and act like Cam is the best prospect in the history of the NFL.

He's a great prospect, but he has a LOT to learn about the QB position. He needs to improve decision making, learn how to play from under center, learn how to go through progressions, and improve his technique on his drops.

I think Locker is the better pure quarterback in terms of throwing ability, and has the higher ceiling.

Maybe as an offensive impact overall, Cam has a high ceiling. But as a pure passer, I'm going to give it to Locker who could be a top QB in the NFL with enough work.

[wonderbredd24]

people think Cam Newton is going to run all over NFL defenses like he has been in the SEC, but ask Vince Young about that. The NFL defenders are bigger than he is and they hit harder. It might work for a little while, but you gotta be a passer to win.

Right now, Cam Newton looks like the next Bobby Douglass.

[Babylon]

Newton is going to be a nightmare for NFL scouts and GMs. No doubt he'll come out after the soap opera that has gone on there and he'll enter the draft with 12 or 13 starts to his resume. Add to that questionable character and coming from a read option offense. I think with 3 or 4 surer things ahead of him he's probably going to be a 2nd round pick but it only takes one team to fall in love with what he brings to the table.

[hockey619]

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

people think Cam Newton is going to run all over NFL defenses like he has been in the SEC, but ask Vince Young about that. The NFL defenders are bigger than he is and they hit harder. It might work for a little while, but you gotta be a passer to win.

Right now, Cam Newton looks like the next Bobby Douglass.

What people? Who in the world thinks he'll run for over 100 yards a game against pro defenses? Never heard anyone even imply that.

His running will be a factor at the next level though, he'll be tough for a lot of linebackers and linemand to catch and for db's to bring down. But the bigger question to me is this:

Is there any coaches with the balls and creativeness to use him in a nonconventional offense to showoff his talents, play to his strengths, and allow him to flourish?

McDaniels might have been able to, but hes got Tebow instead so thats not happening. Outside of that or some college coach (not happening but i can dream...chris petersen) going to the NFL and getting his hands on him, Im not liking his odds of being any better than vince, maybe a little better passer. Thats the thing, outside of him he isnt playing with talent thats overwhelming the opposition so hes got that going toward his development. After that, lots of question marks.

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by hockey619

What people? Who in the world thinks he'll run for over 100 yards a game against pro defenses? Never heard anyone even imply that.

His running will be a factor at the next level though, he'll be tough for a lot of linebackers and linemand to catch and for db's to bring down. But the bigger question to me is this:

Is there any coaches with the balls and creativeness to use him in a nonconventional offense to showoff his talents, play to his strengths, and allow him to flourish?

McDaniels might have been able to, but hes got Tebow instead so thats not happening. Outside of that or some college coach (not happening but i can dream...chris petersen) going to the NFL and getting his hands on him, Im not liking his odds of being any better than vince, maybe a little better passer. Thats the thing, outside of him he isnt playing with talent thats overwhelming the opposition so hes got that going toward his development. After that, lots of question marks.

Dude runs for 200 yards and people on here are talking him being a 1st round pick or the 1st pick in the draft and it's not being implied that he will be able to do that in the NFL?

Of course, they were referring to his touch in the passing game.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Locker is more Steve Young than Elway.

Or Daunte Cullpepper.

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

people think Cam Newton is going to run all over NFL defenses like he has been in the SEC, but ask Vince Young about that. The NFL defenders are bigger than he is and they hit harder. It might work for a little while, but you gotta be a passer to win.

I didn't say he'd make a career out of it, but I do think he can be in an offense immediately as a weapon of some kind as he develops into a passer in the NFL. 5-6 gadget plays per game his rookie year.

[hockey619]

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Dude runs for 200 yards and people on here are talking him being a 1st round pick or the 1st pick in the draft and it's not being implied that he will be able to do that in the NFL?

Of course, they were referring to his touch in the passing game.

Who said first pick? who? anywhere? and you know what, dont bother look because its actually not as crazy as it sounds. vince got picked third and Cam takes over games in a very similar fashion in an offense that also does nothing to prepare him. So going high or at least in the first round is not impossible. But itll have more to do with his lack of experience and character questions that might keep him out of the first, definitely not his skillset.

How much have you seen him play? i hate saying that but you dont seem like youve seen a whole lot of him considering youre ripping his throwing when hes actually thrown pretty well, very good arm with accuracy that is getting better week after week, just needs some polish on his footwork. can he make the reads? a question with any qb coming out of college. and he still has the ability to escape and give himself time or pickup a few with his feet. The tools are there, its just a matter of how theyll be used at the next level.



My questions about does anyone have the creativity to use him are the ones that matter most to me though. I dont really give a crap where hes picked, doesnt matter, but id like to see him succeed, hes an exciting player, but i worry about whether or not his talents will be harnessed or if someone will try to morph him like they failed with vick in atlanta.

[DaBrowns41]

Like Hockey was saying, it's possible based on draft trends alone, not even looking at his ability.

Because Vince Young was a scrambling QB with a mediocre arm, he was a play maker in college, and was taken 3rd overall. Tim Tebow was a mediocre passer and he was drafted in the first round.

It's not crazy to think that a guy that can run like Vince, and has a strong arm with solid accuracy can be a first round pick.

[A Perfect Score]

Vince Young has never, nor will he ever have a weak arm. He had accuracy concerns, and rightfully so, but his ability as a passer coming out is severely underrated. He was lightyears ahead of where Newton is coming out, and its why VY can go 3rd overall and Newton will struggle to be a first round draft pick as a QB.

[DaBrowns41]

Young's arm isn't that strong. He doesn't put much zip on his passes. A bit too much arc. But he still knew how to make plays.

Newton puts zip on his passes and throws lines to his receivers more often than not. If you think Young's passing is overrated, then I encourage you to watch more of Newton.

[A Perfect Score]

There isn't any more of Newton to watch, thats the point. The guy has less then 200 career passing attempts. I'm sorry, but you just cannot draft a guy in the first round to play QB with that small of a sample size, especially in the offense he's running now with the question marks that he has surrounding his ability as a passer and especially towards his character. It just shouldn't happen. And I say shouldn't instead of won't because I've learned not to underestimate the stupidity of NFL front offices, but the guy just isn't a first round pick at QB.

And I say VY was underrated as a passer, not overrated. He was much further ahead coming out of Texas then Newton is at Auburn. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly drinking whatever Kool Aid Auburn has been selling this season.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

There isn't any more of Newton to watch, thats the point. The guy has less then 200 career passing attempts. I'm sorry, but you just cannot draft a guy in the first round to play QB with that small of a sample size, especially in the offense he's running now with the question marks that he has surrounding his ability as a passer and especially towards his character. It just shouldn't happen. And I say shouldn't instead of won't because I've learned not to underestimate the stupidity of NFL front offices, but the guy just isn't a first round pick at QB.

And I say VY was underrated as a passer, not overrated. He was much further ahead coming out of Texas then Newton is at Auburn. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly drinking whatever Kool Aid Auburn has been selling this season.

Agree, especially in areas of limited resume and severe character issues. There are just more sure things than Cam if you're a team in need of a QB. After the mid part of round 2 i think he becomes very attractive.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Agree, especially in areas of limited resume and severe character issues. There are just more sure things than Cam if you're a team in need of a QB. After the mid part of round 2 i think he becomes very attractive.

Not saying I agree or disagree with this line of thinking, but...

The very same things were being said about Tim Tebow last year. He was probably the most divisive prospect I've ever, ever seen. Going beyond posters on a message board, there were legitimate media personalities who thought he could be anything from a first round pick as a good charactered leader and winner to a late round pick as a TE or H-back.

Newton, in my opinion, has Tebow beat in everything but character and experience. He has a fantastically strong arm, (surprisingly) better accuracy than Tebow (not talking about completion %, they are two totally different things imo,) and perhaps most importantly, a quicker release. And that is strictly speaker as passers....if you include athleticism, Newton wins there too.

Not saying I agree or disagree with this line of thinking, I haven't made up my mind yet on Newton, but some team is going to make him a first round pick. I truly believe that now.

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Not saying I agree or disagree with this line of thinking, but...

The very same things were being said about Tim Tebow last year. He was probably the most divisive prospect I've ever, ever seen. Going beyond posters on a message board, there were legitimate media personalities who thought he could be anything from a first round pick as a good charactered leader and winner to a late round pick as a TE or H-back.

Newton, in my opinion, has Tebow beat in everything but character and experience. He has a fantastically strong arm, (surprisingly) better accuracy than Tebow (not talking about completion %, they are two totally different things imo,) and perhaps most importantly, a quicker release. And that is strictly speaker as passers....if you include athleticism, Newton wins there too.

Not saying I agree or disagree with this line of thinking, I haven't made up my mind yet on Newton, but some team is going to make him a first round pick. I truly believe that now.

Tim Tebow's character, attitude, leadership, etc was what propelled him into round 1. His physical QB skills were gonna land him round 3 or 4 and possibly switching positions.

So far, I know very little about how Newton's throwing will translate to the NFL, but he's either A. dumb or B. lazy in regards to this Florida cheating thing. Not sure which is preferable... I guess lazy, but that's not looking too good in draft rooms and I'm inclined to believe he's both dumb and lazy. And then if this pay to play **** is true, he's A. dumb B. think he is above the rules, and/or C. willing to let himself be used or some combination of those three. And I'm inclined to say D. All of the above.

Sign me up. 1st round pick.

[DaBrowns41]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

There isn't any more of Newton to watch, thats the point. The guy has less then 200 career passing attempts. I'm sorry, but you just cannot draft a guy in the first round to play QB with that small of a sample size, especially in the offense he's running now with the question marks that he has surrounding his ability as a passer and especially towards his character. It just shouldn't happen. And I say shouldn't instead of won't because I've learned not to underestimate the stupidity of NFL front offices, but the guy just isn't a first round pick at QB.

And I say VY was underrated as a passer, not overrated. He was much further ahead coming out of Texas then Newton is at Auburn. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly drinking whatever Kool Aid Auburn has been selling this season.

Yeah, I meant to say underrated. My bad.

But teams take chances on guys all the time. Mark Sanchez didn't have a great sample size, and was unproven. He was still taken at #5 overall.

If Cam comes out, and he can impress at the combine, there's no doubt a team will take a chance at a guy who can be a game changer at the next level.

It's not about drinking the kool aid. It's about recognizing that the guy is talented and not being naive enough to think that NFL teams don't draft unproven players.

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by DaBrowns41

But teams take chances on guys all the time. Mark Sanchez didn't have a great sample size, and was unproven. He was still taken at #5 overall.

A decision they should already be regretting.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by DaBrowns41

Yeah, I meant to say underrated. My bad.

But teams take chances on guys all the time. Mark Sanchez didn't have a great sample size, and was unproven. He was still taken at #5 overall.

If Cam comes out, and he can impress at the combine, there's no doubt a team will take a chance at a guy who can be a game changer at the next level.

It's not about drinking the kool aid. It's about recognizing that the guy is talented and not being naive enough to think that NFL teams don't draft unproven players.

Mark Sanchez had almost 300 more college attempts when he declared that Newton does now. Definitely a significantly higher amount of attempts and a huge sample size in comparison to what Newton has shown at this point. Its fine to be a fan of what the guy is doing at a college level, because thats hard to deny, Im just not one who thinks that his skillset transfers particularly well to the NFL and I do believe that his lack of college experience and his huge character concerns and the question marks surrounding him as a passer will prevent him from being a first round pick as a QB. Notice I keep saying that because if someone does decide to draft him based purely on athleticism then thats an entirely different story. That said, Im not of the mind that he's a first round quarterback.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Tim Tebow's character, attitude, leadership, etc was what propelled him into round 1. His physical QB skills were gonna land him round 3 or 4 and possibly switching positions.

So far, I know very little about how Newton's throwing will translate to the NFL, but he's either A. dumb or B. lazy in regards to this Florida cheating thing. Not sure which is preferable... I guess lazy, but that's not looking too good in draft rooms and I'm inclined to believe he's both dumb and lazy. And then if this pay to play **** is true, he's A. dumb B. think he is above the rules, and/or C. willing to let himself be used or some combination of those three. And I'm inclined to say D. All of the above.

Sign me up. 1st round pick.

Kellen Moore is probably going to be one of the winningest QBs in college football history with possibly two BCS bowls on his resume. He's not going to be drafted.

You have to have the physical tools too. Tebow had them....as wonky as some of them may have been.

Newton has anything Tebow has outside of the character and leadership in triplicate. He's going to go in the first round based on that.

And therein lies my point. For all the talk about where Tebow would go, he wound up in the first. So will Newton.

[Borat]

Newton's performance on Saturday triggered a bonus in his contract with Auburn that will pay him an additional $300,000. Hell of a deal.

[hockey619]

Idk if Newton will succeed or not, i dont really know about his work ethic, but i am rooting for him because he sure is fun to watch.

I believe he'll go in the first based on what i said before, though im not really good at the 'where will they be drafted thing' focus more on the how theyll translate/evaluating guys.

as for his lack of experience:
He did play a season of juco with 336 attempts
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colleg...asonselect=459

I know its a lower level of ball, but its been proven time and again that just because its not D-1 doesnt mean its worthless, Flacco came from a DII gimmiky offense and has managed at the pro level just fine. Lower level of competition will mean keep the numbers in perspective but it doesnt change that a ball thrown with good placement on that level is still an accurate throw, just means there is a bigger learning curve due to the speed increase at the next level.

[DaBrowns41]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Mark Sanchez had almost 300 more college attempts when he declared that Newton does now. Definitely a significantly higher amount of attempts and a huge sample size in comparison to what Newton has shown at this point. Its fine to be a fan of what the guy is doing at a college level, because thats hard to deny, Im just not one who thinks that his skillset transfers particularly well to the NFL and I do believe that his lack of college experience and his huge character concerns and the question marks surrounding him as a passer will prevent him from being a first round pick as a QB. Notice I keep saying that because if someone does decide to draft him based purely on athleticism then thats an entirely different story. That said, Im not of the mind that he's a first round quarterback.

But there's a difference in if you think his skills translate well into the NFL and what other teams will think. Based on trends with QB's who have great athletic ability and leadership, but need work passing, Cam Newton is a first round pick most likely.

Personally, I don't like to take a guy that hasn't had much experience either. But his athletic ability, and his arm strength, and surprising accuracy makes him an intriguing prospect.

If you honestly can't tell me his arm isn't better than Young's, then either you haven't watched him, or your a Vince Young homer. Newton's arm is very good. He'll just need to learn how to play QB in the NFL, and realize that there are linebackers and defensive ends as fast as him, much like Vince Young had to realize.