The Cameron Newton Thread - Page 7

BeerBaron · 11-26-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Vince Young used to do it and he's........nevermind.

I think the lesson there is that the GM/Owner needs to make damn sure his coach actually wants the guy to be his franchise QB.

gpngc · 11-26-2010, 05:58 PM

I see Brad Smith on roids.

Babylon · 11-26-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I think the lesson there is that the GM/Owner needs to make damn sure his coach actually wants the guy to be his franchise QB.

Somehow Vince Young becomes the Rock of Gibraltar with a differant coach? i dont see it.

BeerBaron · 11-26-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Somehow Vince Young becomes the Rock of Gibraltar with a differant coach? i dont see it.

Neither do I, but if he had a coach from day 1 willing to bet everything on him and work with him, maybe things would have been different.

raynman · 11-26-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

unfortunately the kind of play action that Auburn runs is pretty much useless in the NFL. Taking the ball from under center and faking the handoff to a running back who is behind you in the backfield, not beside you in the shotgun, is what they do in the NFL.

thinking that it can't work in the NFL is just short sighted. a good OC would build an offense around newton's strengths and abilities. if it has him taking most of his snaps from the shotgun, so be it.

you can have a strong run game from the shotgun and it helps give you a better passing game. add the pistol formation and you have an improved run game.

when you have someone like cam leading your offense, you realize you don't have a prototypical QB and you build to his strengths. you'd be a fool not to find ways to use them.

the guy as a rookie could be as dangerous as vick is right now and given time and an offense built around his strengths could surpass him easily.

his passing skills are also massively underrated. again, you take the mature michael vick and big ben and mash them up together and you have cam newton. ideal situation, imo, is to have him sit behind mcnabb for a year or two (like mcnabb would last longer than a year as starter anywhere) to mentor him on being a pro QB and a professional grown up man.

Babylon · 11-26-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynman

thinking that it can't work in the NFL is just short sighted. a good OC would build an offense around newton's strengths and abilities. if it has him taking most of his snaps from the shotgun, so be it.

you can have a strong run game from the shotgun and it helps give you a better passing game. add the pistol formation and you have an improved run game.

when you have someone like cam leading your offense, you realize you don't have a prototypical QB and you build to his strengths. you'd be a fool not to find ways to use them.

the guy as a rookie could be as dangerous as vick is right now and given time and an offense built around his strengths could surpass him easily.

his passing skills are also massively underrated. again, you take the mature michael vick and big ben and mash them up together and you have cam newton. ideal situation, imo, is to have him sit behind mcnabb for a year or two (like mcnabb would last longer than a year as starter anywhere) to mentor him on being a pro QB and a professional grown up man.

He isnt in the same league as Vick as a runner, or a passer for that matter.

raynman · 11-26-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

I know this won't bother a lot of people, but when Newton runs around acting the fool and taunting other fans after a game it just demonstrates another sign that he lacks top intangibles. Top QBs act like grown men, not bratty adolescents.

meh...the only intangibles that matter is what during the game and in practice.

after a comeback like that in alabama he's got a right to celebrate. plus, he's a kid. let him have his fun. it's not a big deal.

everything that he does with his team...the leadership that he has over it plus the poise, confidence, and coolness that he has at all times regardless of the pressure he's put under is what matters to me. thats what is going to seperate him from the likes of russell, leaf, and carr, imo.

K Train · 11-26-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

Top QBs act like grown men, not bratty adolescents.

where are you getting this stat from?

rivers and brady yell at fans all the time during games, lienart and young party like adolescents all the time, culpepper went on sex boats, roethlisberger sexually assaults young girls, vick used to get high all the time, cutler has always been a dick, clausen is one of the cockiest players ive ever seen....im not sure being "bratty" after a huge comeback should label him as not having a top QB attitude

raynman · 11-26-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

He isnt in the same league as Vick as a runner, or a passer for that matter.

i dont know. i feel confident in saying that he's ahead of vick in both areas when vick came into the league. he's not as shifty as vick, but he's a lot more powerful and would have a lot more endurance, imo. as a passer he's better.

BUSTKUNTLAWL · 11-26-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL

1) Newton is definitely leaving early.

2) He is without a doubt a top-10 pick.

There really is no need to discuss this. He is a sure fire top-10 pick. Add him to your mocks and keep him there.

3rd round? LMAO

Yes, yes.

Someone is gambling in the top-10.

Hurricanes25 · 11-26-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL

Someone is gambling in the top-10.

Perhaps. But someone may gamble on Locker and Mallet in the top 10 so I wouldn't call him a sure fire top 10 pick like you said earlier.

Vox Populi · 11-26-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train

where are you getting this stat from?

rivers and brady yell at fans all the time during games, lienart and young party like adolescents all the time, culpepper went on sex boats, roethlisberger sexually assaults young girls, vick used to get high all the time, cutler has always been a dick, clausen is one of the cockiest players ive ever seen....im not sure being "bratty" after a huge comeback should label him as not having a top QB attitude

I was going to post exactly this. You can even throw in Orton's manbeardly drunken awesomeness as well.

Mr. Offseason · 11-26-2010, 07:27 PM

I have to say I don't really buy Cam Newton as a top 10 pick. Sure he has good arm strength and at times he can put the ball right where he wants it, but his footwork, pocket presence and ball placement from throw to throw just leaves a lot to be desired. He has a ton of potential, but that doesn't mean he will reach it as a passer. I saw him make probably three NFL throws in this game today, though I was very impressed by his mental toughness to keep fighting after that horrible start and he led a great comeback. That certainly doesn't mean he is a great NFL QB prospect though. Comparing his pocket poise and fundamentals to McElroy was particularly telling. McElroy is a solid mid-round QB prospect because he is so fundamentally sound, and while he doesn't have the ceiling Newton does he doesn't have the same floor either.

I enjoy watching Newton play obviously, but how you could watch this game (among others) and watch his accuracy, his ball placement and his pocket poise and say that he was a potential top 10 pick and maybe a top 5 pick is absolutely beyond me.

Halsey · 11-26-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynman

meh...the only intangibles that matter is what during the game and in practice.

No. A QBs intangibles matter all the time. Whether it's passing up a night on the town to do some extra film study or staying after practice to work with his pass catchers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train

where are you getting this stat from?

rivers and brady yell at fans all the time during games, lienart and young party like adolescents all the time, culpepper went on sex boats, roethlisberger sexually assaults young girls, vick used to get high all the time, cutler has always been a dick, clausen is one of the cockiest players ive ever seen....im not sure being "bratty" after a huge comeback should label him as not having a top QB attitude

I said "Top QBs", not Leinart, Young, Culpepper or Clausen. I would hope Newton has higher goals than being like Leinart or Young.

Brady and Rivers yelling at fans after being established franchise QBs is different from a guy who's trying to impress NFL teams running around a stadium taunting another team's fans.

Newton is already known to have taken money in college(;)). He doesn't need to add more reasons to question his character.

Brent · 11-26-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

Newton is already known to have taken money in college(;)). He doesn't need to add more reasons to question his character.

I don't think NFL teams care about that as much as we're lead to believe.

Complex · 11-26-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

No. A QBs intangibles matter all the time. Whether it's passing up a night on the town to do some extra film study or staying after practice to work with his pass catchers.

I said "Top QBs", not Leinart, Young, Culpepper or Clausen. I would hope Newton has higher goals than being like Leinart or Young.

Brady and Rivers yelling at fans after being established franchise QBs is different from a guy who's trying to impress NFL teams running around a stadium taunting another team's fans.

Newton is already known to have taken money in college(;)). He doesn't need to add more reasons to question his character.

You said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

I know this won't bother a lot of people, but when Newton runs around acting the fool and taunting other fans after a game it just demonstrates another sign that he lacks top intangibles. Top QBs act like grown men, not bratty adolescents.

Brady and Phillips act like "bratty adolescents" sometimes and taking money is probaly not a big deal to NFL teams.

Halsey · 11-26-2010, 08:25 PM

I'm not going to spend another second of time on the Newton to Brady and Rivers comparisons. Newton is not Brady or Rivers. There's no comparison and it's not worth debating. Brady and Rivers didn't steal laptops, cheat in classes, get involved in agent scandals, etc. Nothing that Brady or Rivers did or didn't do means a thing regarding Newton. Newton clearly has intangible questions and bringing up Tom Brady yelling at fans doesn't change that.

K Train · 11-26-2010, 08:36 PM

didnt masoli steal the laptops?

Caulibflower · 11-26-2010, 09:25 PM

Um....how 'bout some mad points for leadership and composure?

keylime_5 · 11-26-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Offseason

I have to say I don't really buy Cam Newton as a top 10 pick. Sure he has good arm strength and at times he can put the ball right where he wants it, but his footwork, pocket presence and ball placement from throw to throw just leaves a lot to be desired. He has a ton of potential, but that doesn't mean he will reach it as a passer. I saw him make probably three NFL throws in this game today, though I was very impressed by his mental toughness to keep fighting after that horrible start and he led a great comeback. That certainly doesn't mean he is a great NFL QB prospect though. Comparing his pocket poise and fundamentals to McElroy was particularly telling. McElroy is a solid mid-round QB prospect because he is so fundamentally sound, and while he doesn't have the ceiling Newton does he doesn't have the same floor either.

I enjoy watching Newton play obviously, but how you could watch this game (among others) and watch his accuracy, his ball placement and his pocket poise and say that he was a potential top 10 pick and maybe a top 5 pick is absolutely beyond me.

I just hate watching that stupid spread offense. I wish he played in a system like USC's where he actually dropped back and threw it instead of just taking snaps and running forward every play. 90% of his throws are screens or short passes too, it's an ugly offense to watch. Makes it a lot harder to evaluate a QB too as a pro prospect.

metafour · 11-26-2010, 09:40 PM

Philip Rivers is one of the biggest bitches in football. I'd rather have Newton dancing around after a historic comeback than Rivers crying like he does every single game.

LMFAO @ fabricating BS "faults" on Newton. The guy doesn't lose games. He lacks intangibles? Really? A guy that always finds a way to win lacks intangibles?

Scott Wright · 11-26-2010, 09:47 PM

I haven't read this whole thread but are people really comparing Newton to Tom Brady and Philip Rivers? Talk about apples and oranges! The only comparison for Newton is Vince Young, which is apt in just about every way imaginable. They are, for all intents and purposes, carbon copies.

metafour · 11-26-2010, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I haven't read this whole thread but are people really comparing Newton to Tom Brady and Philip Rivers?

It was an "intangibles" comparison. Apparently; Newton lacks "intangibles" because he was running around celebrating after the biggest Auburn comeback win of all time in the biggest game of the season. Another poster mentioned that other top QBs (like Brady and Rivers) also get heated on the field. Rivers is constantly crying to refs; talking **** to opposing players.

metafour · 11-26-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

They are, for all intents and purposes, carbon copies.

Newton is a better physical package and has more "it factor" IMO. I'd also say his delivery is a lot more traditional (compared to Young's sidearm delivery).

Scott Wright · 11-26-2010, 10:02 PM

Don't forget, when Vince Young was coming out he too was touted for his leadership, intangibles and "It" factor... As for the root of the discussion, I don't think scouts will hold Newton's celebrating against him. What will hurt him is an apparent lack of respect for laws and rules, assuming the allegations about him cheating and asking for money to sign with a school are true.