The Cameron Newton Thread

[Halsey]

People that have defended Newton's attitude/intangibles/whatever are not doing him any favors. He needs to be told that he could be the next Vince Young if he doesn't get his head on straight. Not endlessly praised because he played well in college. He will only succeed in the NFL if he works on his faults and doesn't buy into all the praise he's getting from play in college.

[metafour]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

Don't forget, when Vince Young was coming out he too was touted for his leadership, intangibles and "It" factor... As for the root of the discussion, I don't think scouts will hold Newton's celebrating against him. What will hurt him is an apparent lack of respect for laws and rules, assuming the allegations about him cheating and asking for money to sign with a school are true.

What Newton has done in the SEC with a defense that has looked terrible 50% of the time beats out anything Young did at Texas. I agree that Young had similar hype, but those Texas teams were complete teams that tore through a whole lot of garbage. From a pure statistical standpoint Auburn's season this year is a complete anomaly...literally; their defensive rankings suggest next to no possibility of winning the championship. If they do win, it will be a "first time" type scenario.

You want to talk stats?

"Auburn came from behind for the eighth time in its 12 victories this season, and it was the fourth time Auburn came back from a double-digit deficit. Prior to this season, Auburn had not come back from more than two double-digit deficits since 1970."

[Mr. Offseason]

Originally Posted by keylime_5

I just hate watching that stupid spread offense. I wish he played in a system like USC's where he actually dropped back and threw it instead of just taking snaps and running forward every play. 90% of his throws are screens or short passes too, it's an ugly offense to watch. Makes it a lot harder to evaluate a QB too as a pro prospect.

I'd like to see him in a more pro-style offense also but would he really have a boatload of success in a pro-style offense? He and Terrelle Pryor are very similar to me, and Pryor is not a world beater in a pro style offense (no offense, I saw your avatar). He would probably be doing a similar thing: going through one or maybe two reads and then looking to scramble and buy time. His coaches might preach patience and poise in the pocket but I can't really say that I'd expect him to be a totally different QB if he was in a different offense. This offense that he is running is a good offense for him because it keeps his reads simple and plays to his strengths as a passer stretching the field and as a runner. That's why he is a Heisman candidate in this offense. But nothing I have seen of him, including this great comeback today, makes me think: Wow, he's a top 10 lock in the NFL Draft.

[keylime_5]

Originally Posted by raynman

thinking that it can't work in the NFL is just short sighted. a good OC would build an offense around newton's strengths and abilities. if it has him taking most of his snaps from the shotgun, so be it.

you can have a strong run game from the shotgun and it helps give you a better passing game. add the pistol formation and you have an improved run game.

when you have someone like cam leading your offense, you realize you don't have a prototypical QB and you build to his strengths. you'd be a fool not to find ways to use them.

NFL offensive coordinators aren't going to run the ****** spread offense that Auburn runs in the NFL. It is a superior offense if you have good personnel, which is why every single team in the NFL runs a pro style offense, that's why it's called a "pro" style offense. Look at Vince Young in Tennessee, that is what teams are going to try to do with Newton. They're not going to change the offense to where they run out of the shotgun all the time. You can't run the ball in the NFL if you only play 3 yards back, it doesn't work like that.

I really like Newton's potential, who doesn't, but it's not easy to read what he's gonna look like in that offense. Most of his film isn't very useful for scouting him b/c he's not making the throws he'll be asked to make at the next level.

[keylime_5]

Originally Posted by Mr. Offseason

I'd like to see him in a more pro-style offense also but would he really have a boatload of success in a pro-style offense? He and Terrelle Pryor are very similar to me, and Pryor is not a world beater in a pro style offense (no offense, I saw your avatar). He would probably be doing a similar thing: going through one or maybe two reads and then looking to scramble and buy time. His coaches might preach patience and poise in the pocket but I can't really say that I'd expect him to be a totally different QB if he was in a different offense. This offense that he is running is a good offense for him because it keeps his reads simple and plays to his strengths as a passer stretching the field and as a runner. That's why he is a Heisman candidate in this offense. But nothing I have seen of him, including this great comeback today, makes me think: Wow, he's a top 10 lock in the NFL Draft.

His numbers probably wouldn't be as good since a pro style is built around a passing QB unlike the offense he runs that is built to exploit his rushing ability - but it'd be easier to get a read on what he'd look like at the next level. Mike Vick was in a conventional pro style offense at Va Tech and that didn't hurt his production.

His game today didn't impress me that much, it was mostly the coaches adjusting the gameplan to make the running game sans Cam Newton shred Alabama and Newton using his arm instead of his legs to beat up on a bad Bama secondary, but he has had more than enough moments this year to flash his potential as an NFL Qb despite playing in that offense.

[Miaoww]

Originally Posted by metafour

What Newton has done in the SEC with a defense that has looked terrible 50% of the time beats out anything Young did at Texas. I agree that Young had similar hype, but those Texas teams were complete teams that tore through a whole lot of garbage. From a pure statistical standpoint Auburn's season this year is a complete anomaly...literally; their defensive rankings suggest next to no possibility of winning the championship. If they do win, it will be a "first time" type scenario.

You want to talk stats?

"Auburn came from behind for the eighth time in its 12 victories this season, and it was the fourth time Auburn came back from a double-digit deficit. Prior to this season, Auburn had not come back from more than two double-digit deficits since 1970."

Clearly you're forgetting the 2005 National Championship game. Literally the best game of football I've ever seen and the biggest example of one guy taking over a game I can think of.

[Dagagad]

It is just a fact of life that NFL guys will have to evaluate players coming out of the various kinds of shotgun spreads. Those kinds of offenses are superior in college in terms of maximizing talent so they will continue to be run. I don't know why a college coach wouldn't want a mobile QB. It is the hardest thing for a defense to defend.

I can understand going pro style if you have absolutely overwhelming talent as it can help you continue to grab the elite nfl prospects at skill positions. However I'd always take a Young/Tebow over a Stafford.

Anyway, whilst the NFL still is a pro style league (iform, proset etc) it is becoming more and more a passing league. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats for example ran more plays from the gun the past few years than college 'pro style' teams like USC do.

[keylime_5]

Originally Posted by Dagagad

It is just a fact of life that NFL guys will have to evaluate players coming out of the various kinds of shotgun spreads. Those kinds of offenses are superior in college in terms of maximizing talent so they will continue to be run. I don't know why a college coach wouldn't want a mobile QB. It is the hardest thing for a defense to defend.

I can understand going pro style if you have absolutely overwhelming talent as it can help you continue to grab the elite nfl prospects at skill positions. However I'd always take a Young/Tebow over a Stafford.

Anyway, whilst the NFL still is a pro style league (iform, proset etc) it is becoming more and more a passing league. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats for example ran more plays from the gun the past few years than college 'pro style' teams like USC do.

meaning they are superior in college at making teams with less talent compete with teams with more talent. Bigger schools like Michigan or West Virginia for instance use it to put QBs who are great runners behind center so they can spread out defense and run into open spaces. In the NFL the defenses are so fast that this doesn't work no matter how you try to spread the defensive personnel out.

[metafour]

Some of you really know very little about Malzahn's offense BTW. Lumping it in with "system" spread offenses is a joke. His offense takes on whatever shape he wants it to, and it has looked different in every incarnation it has taken. Auburn does pass down field (in fact one of the key's to Malzahn's philosophy is deep passes off of play action, albeit he has toned that down this year to accommodate more pounding the ball with Newton). Auburn runs a lot of screens? So does Alabama, and they are about as traditional as it gets.

[metafour]

Originally Posted by Halsey

I know this won't bother a lot of people, but when Newton runs around acting the fool and taunting other fans after a game it just demonstrates another sign that he lacks top intangibles. Top QBs act like grown men, not bratty adolescents.

BTW; he ran to the Auburn section after the game. Any more BS you want to make up?

[Dagagad]

Originally Posted by keylime_5

meaning they are superior in college at making teams with less talent compete with teams with more talent. Bigger schools like Michigan or West Virginia for instance use it to put QBs who are great runners behind center so they can spread out defense and run into open spaces. In the NFL the defenses are so fast that this doesn't work no matter how you try to spread the defensive personnel out.

Yea sure, I don't think it would work in the NFL(running QB).

I think it maximizes talent across the board tho in college. With a Gus Malzahn, Chip Kelly or Dan Mullen at O Co-Ordinator I think OSU win more games the last few seasons. Sure they already won alot of games, but I still think they would have been better. It is just a much easier learning curve for QBs in those offenses. That can be seen in Texas' return to a pro style offense this year.

Spreading it out to pass absolutely does work in the NFL. More and more teams are playing more and more snaps out of the gun. It is not a teams entire offense but it has become a big part.

[Dagagad]

Originally Posted by metafour

Some of you really know very little about Malzahn's offense BTW. Lumping it in with "system" spread offenses is a joke. His offense takes on whatever shape he wants it to, and it has looked different in every incarnation it has taken. Auburn does pass down field (in fact one of the key's to Malzahn's philosophy is deep passes off of play action, albeit he has toned that down this year to accommodate more pounding the ball with Newton). Auburn runs a lot of screens? So does Alabama, and they are about as traditional as it gets.

His offense is great. I don't buy all the hate for the 'system spread' offenses. System just means that the offense actually wins more than the talent they have. That should be a good thing. Teams take way too much pride in running inefficient offenses and winning with sheer talent.

[Scott Wright]

Originally Posted by Mr. Offseason

I'd like to see him in a more pro-style offense also but would he really have a boatload of success in a pro-style offense? He and Terrelle Pryor are very similar to me, and Pryor is not a world beater in a pro style offense (no offense, I saw your avatar). He would probably be doing a similar thing: going through one or maybe two reads and then looking to scramble and buy time. His coaches might preach patience and poise in the pocket but I can't really say that I'd expect him to be a totally different QB if he was in a different offense. This offense that he is running is a good offense for him because it keeps his reads simple and plays to his strengths as a passer stretching the field and as a runner. That's why he is a Heisman candidate in this offense. But nothing I have seen of him, including this great comeback today, makes me think: Wow, he's a top 10 lock in the NFL Draft.

Good Post. Co-Sign.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I think that Newton is gonna surprise people with his ability to be primarily a passer in the NFL. All of us are underrating his ability to flat-out throw the football 35 times a game.
I just think Newton has more ability as a passer than he's being given credit for, which is the evaluation/bet that NFL scouts and GMs are going to have to make about Cam's pro future.

I know the sample data set for Newton is small, but IMO good things happen when Cam wings it downfield.
That pass to his FB in the redzone against Alabama was a 3rd/dumpoff read that Cam threw perfectly with touch to someone I'd assume isn't accustomed to catching a lot of balls for a touchdown.

After Luck, it's a push between Mallett and Newton as to whom I would select as the #2 QB in the 2011 draft.

IMO he's a much better natural passer than VY, and I suspect he's just a better QB from the neck up than Young too.

I was talking to a friend who got stuck on comparing Newton to Cunningham with the Eagles, which is a comparison I happen to like. Tall elusive runners who are at their best when a play breaks down and can throw the ball 55-60 yards in the air running out of the pocket.

[6270410908]

Randall cunningham was a headcase until he retired, found god, and came back a viking. I'm not a fan of newton so I love that comparison. Maybe newton and get an 80's style randall-geri curl and carry a mirror around with him everywhere he goes. Not for nothing but as a grown man, if your father was choosing your school for you, are you gonna tell me you would know nothing about it? How gullible do you have to be to believe cecil and cameron newton? Kid, the truth shall set you free. Cost you a heisman and a n.c. but intelligent fans would gain a shred of respect for him. Roll tide...

[raynman]

wow, lots of blind haters in here.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by Jake Locker

Randall cunningham was a headcase until he retired, found god, and came back a viking. I'm not a fan of newton so I love that comparison. Maybe newton and get an 80's style randall-geri curl and carry a mirror around with him everywhere he goes. Not for nothing but as a grown man, if your father was choosing your school for you, are you gonna tell me you would know nothing about it? How gullible do you have to be to believe cecil and cameron newton? Kid, the truth shall set you free. Cost you a heisman and a n.c. but intelligent fans would gain a shred of respect for him. Roll tide...

Cunningham a head case in Philly?? That's a bit much. He had an 'ego' because he knew he was the most physically gifted QB, at that time, in the NFL. Yeah Elway and Steve Young were in the league, but they weren't the pure runners that he was. Maybe he wasn't the best 'team guy' and kept to himself, but he wasn't a cancer on the level of the current crop of primadonnas in the NFL.

Randall didn't really rock a jheri curl in Philly either.

Give it up on his father potentially seeking payment for Cam to attend AU. It won't get past his father because NO WAY would his dad throw his soon to be multi-millionaire son under the bus.
One level of separation = plausible denial.
If you think Cam's situation is the only payola deal going on in the SEC, you are very naive, sir.

Cam Newton = better than the entire Alabama roster.

Real talk.

They only 'hate' you when you have game.lol

[6270410908]

Originally Posted by raynman

wow, lots of blind haters in here.

Nope not blind...I just read papers and look beyond sportscenter highlights. I had the same comments for vince young 5 years ago...thought he was a diva in a simplified situation and lacked the intelligence and maturity to be a top nfl qb and he never let me down. Now we basically have vince young+recruiting scandal+better throwing motion. Cam won't let me down...a rats a rat whether it changes uniforms or not. U buy the newton stock, I'm not.

[6270410908]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Cunningham a head case in Philly?? That's a bit much. He had an 'ego' because he knew he was the most physically gifted QB, at that time, in the NFL. Yeah Elway and Steve Young were in the league, but they weren't the pure runners that he was. Maybe he wasn't the best 'team guy' and kept to himself, but he wasn't a cancer on the level of the current crop of primadonnas in the NFL.

Randall didn't really rock a jheri curl in Philly either.

Give it up on his father potentially seeking payment for Cam to attend AU. It won't get past his father because NO WAY would his dad throw his soon to be multi-millionaire son under the bus.
One level of separation = plausible denial.
If you think Cam's situation is the only payola deal going on in the SEC, you are very naive, sir.

Cam Newton = better than the entire Alabama roster.

Real talk.

They only 'hate' you when you have game.lol

Oi.....what's this world coming to? Christ...u tell me what randall cunningham ever won other than a race or a beauty contest. Nothing. U can have all these "athletes"...I like quarterbacks. With heads on their shoulders. That can pass a test without cheating. Go google randall cunningham and geri curl too...tell me the old nfl films clip doesn't pop up from about 1987. Phew....

[essential]

Originally Posted by Halsey

People that have defended Newton's attitude/intangibles/whatever are not doing him any favors. He needs to be told that he could be the next Vince Young if he doesn't get his head on straight. Not endlessly praised because he played well in college. He will only succeed in the NFL if he works on his faults and doesn't buy into all the praise he's getting from play in college.

Don't forget that Cam has a strong father figure in his life (even if he asked for money, which I honestly don't care about because I assume most of the top guys do in some way). VY has no father figure and grew up in a rough situation, Cam had nothing like that, I can't say their attitudes are anything alike, Cam had a traditional upbringing, and that does make a difference. I think it makes him more mature and mentally strong. Also, sometimes I like when player gets caught doing things, they learn from it, and I think Cam is the kind of person who has learned from it. I'd rather they receive that learning experience in college, not the pro's.

[6270410908]

Just as I can't say for certain that u know cam newton has NOT learned anything, you can't speculate that he has, and for gods sakes, if anything this recruiting scandal shows that not only has he not grown up, his father has some growing up to do as well. His track record shows anything BUT maturity and to say different makes you look like your last name might be newton.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I'd just like to make sure that everyone understands that whether or not a quarterback is capable of succeeding in the NFL =/= whether a quarterback is physically capable of making NFL throws.

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Jake Locker

Just as I can't say for certain that u know cam newton has NOT learned anything, you can't speculate that he has, and for gods sakes, if anything this recruiting scandal shows that not only has he not grown up, his father has some growing up to do as well. His track record shows anything BUT maturity and to say different makes you look like your last name might be newton.

you look at it as being childish and immature, i look at it as being sensible....i really cant be too hard on newton for allowing this to go on, i would....same way i cant be mad at bush for taking gift from USC.....any 18 year old kid would have been easily persuaded.

not sayin it wasnt taking the easy way out....but i cant blame them. maybe i just have flimsy morals, but i could care less what agents they talk too, where they get money from while in college, or what gifts they take to attend the school. thats on the school imo

[binary]

Originally Posted by metafour

Newton is a better physical package and has more "it factor" IMO. I'd also say his delivery is a lot more traditional (compared to Young's sidearm delivery).

How in the heck does CAm have more "it" factor than Vince Young? Vince's whole career is based on "it".

[ThePudge]

Originally Posted by Jake Locker

Just as I can't say for certain that u know cam newton has NOT learned anything, you can't speculate that he has, and for gods sakes, if anything this recruiting scandal shows that not only has he not grown up, his father has some growing up to do as well. His track record shows anything BUT maturity and to say different makes you look like your last name might be newton.

When did Newton kick your dog? Just because he's having an incredible year and your boy Locker has been disappointing doesn't mean you have to come in here trying to discredit him as a player & as a person. I find Cam to be a decently intelligent, pleasant guy with a lot of personality. Teammates and coaches love him, they all respect him.

He doesn't have the kind of character issues that make NFL Quarterbacks bust, in fact I've never heard of anybody having a problem with the guy personally. The recruiting allegations came from a Mississippi State source, and though the coaches there knew of the situation, Dan Mullen says he absolutely loves the kid. Let's not act like Cam Newton's father is the only parent out there trying to profit off his son's ability.

I'm still waiting on proof that he or Auburn's program did anything wrong. I think people forget that they are only allegations at this point. Even if they're true I don't think it will keep Cam out of the Top 5-10 picks. As I said, he doesn't come across as any kind of thug, he always looks to be smiling & having a good time playing/talking football. You can sense his passion just by watching him in interviews and on the field. I don't think he's rub anyone but angry fans the wrong way. In addition, he's proven to be level-headed and poised on the field, leading his team back into games on several occasions.

It's not my fault people have compared Newton to Locker on this forum and you've done everything you can to discredit Cam & pump up your boy. I fail to see any correlation between the two other than the stupid arguments on this site. If Newton throws 3 Tds it doesn't take 3 Tds out of Locker's total. I fail to see how their performances are connected. Cam playing well doesn't take anything away from Jake Locker, and likewise Locker struggling doesn't make Newton a better prospect. The two are in dramatically different situations, Cam is the best player in the country for arguably the nation's best team, Locker is the best player on a bad team.