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Old 11-01-2010, 07:43 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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His arm is good enough and he's deadly accurate.

Give the Chargers a ton of credit for building the perfect system and getting the perfect mix of players to tailor around Rivers' strengths and weaknesses.

If they fire Norv, they should keep an offensive system similar to the one they run right now, bc its built for Rivers to thrive in. He can't play a WCO or a run and shoot.

Playing in the AFC West surely helps to mask arm strength inadequacies as well, but it doesn't matter when you have a great system and great pieces that fit that system.

As much as we kill AJ Smith, you gotta give the guy a ton of credit for knowing what Rivers is and doing a tremendous job of building around him.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
IMO Philip Rivers is a rich man's Chad Pennington.
I was gonna just mosey by this thread but this is a really out of place comparison. Chad was the king of dink and dunk, which (not so secretly) is actually not Rivers' strength.

With the exception of super-saiyan Tom Brady I'm not sure anybody has had this kind of success rate with the deep ball over an extended period of time. It is freaking uncanny. The intermediate ins, hooks and slants are fierce too. He's got velocity and his placement is basically perfect most of the time. His protection is usually pretty great too. Can't ask for much more in a QB than what Rivers delivers.

Nobody through 8 games has ever had as much yardage as Philip this season. Record in sight? it could hapen.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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In the 2006 season Ron Jaworski started calling him Dan Marino, and that comparison has stuck with me ever since. He's got the quickest, most compact release since Marino.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Bernie Kosar-esque. Sidearm throw, coached by Marty Schottenheimer and everything.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Hey it works. I think he is a pretty good QB.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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i throw like rivers with the sidearm. my hand was too small to grip the ball as a little kid so i pushed it, i dont know his reason for his weird mechanics but while it looks weird hes like 6-4 so its not a big deal
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
IMO Philip Rivers is a rich man's Chad Pennington.
He's pre-injury Chad Pennington except bigger and meaner. Man I wish it was easy to show some Pennington '02 highlights to people because almost nobody remembers how good that guy looked before the two shoulder tears.

Rivers is the truth....Best under 30 QB in the league.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I love him as a QB. He just knows exactly what he's doing at all times. Which to me is 90% of being a good QB.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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It is a really ugly looking throwing action, looks like a girl basically, but damn it's effective.

He is pretty much the anti-Jamarcus.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Rivers is the truth....Best under 30 QB in the league.
lies....best physical passer maybe, but roethlisberger and rodgers>rivers as a QB
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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lies....best physical passer maybe, but roethlisberger and rodgers>rivers as a QB
Um, huh? Are you being serious?
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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lies....best physical passer maybe, but roethlisberger and rodgers>rivers as a QB
I can understand the Roethlisberger argument, but I have no idea how you can say with a straight face that Aaron Rodgers is better than Philip Rivers.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't buy either argument. Rodgers has a bunch of potential, but has largely failed to have the kind of success we all expected him to have this year. I think he'll be a great QB down the road, but I couldn't even come close to calling him better than Rivers right now.

And while Roethlisberger has the superbowl rings, Rivers is clearly the better regular season quarterback. Clearly.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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I can understand the Roethlisberger argument, but I have no idea how you can say with a straight face that Aaron Rodgers is better than Philip Rivers.
i think rodgers is having a down year while rivers gets a bunch of catch up stats while they are playing from behind....but id take rodgers all day.

with roethlisberger its close, and it might be a little homerism, but i dont know any reasons other than off field **** why you would take rivers over him
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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I don't buy either argument. Rodgers has a bunch of potential, but has largely failed to have the kind of success we all expected him to have this year. I think he'll be a great QB down the road, but I couldn't even come close to calling him better than Rivers right now.

And while Roethlisberger has the superbowl rings, Rivers is clearly the better regular season quarterback. Clearly.
Exactly...as far as pure passer goes there's not a single under 30 QB guy I think is better.

This isn't a knock against Roethlisberger...Rivers is just one of those QBs that is the master of his offense.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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hey i do not think ben is the greatest passer...i actually think hes the 3rd best of the 04 class, buttttt i think hes the best overall QB of the 3.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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The Roethlisberger argument can be made with a straight face because of the winning, but if you logically think about all the factors in evaluating the two players, Rivers is clearly better.

Big Ben does have two Super Bowls - I'm not knocking him at all, he's a fine QB (although he played terribly in the first one). But Rivers never had the defense, running game, and just overall Pittsburgh awesomeness helping him.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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It is a shame Rivers became great the same year LaDainian Tomlinson lost his burst.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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The Roethlisberger argument can be made with a straight face because of the winning, but if you logically think about all the factors in evaluating the two players, Rivers is clearly better.

Big Ben does have two Super Bowls - I'm not knocking him at all, he's a fine QB (although he played terribly in the first one). But Rivers never had the defense, running game, and just overall Pittsburgh awesomeness helping him.
rivers had a STUD defense with jamaal willaims, cro, jammer, igor, and a roided up merriman.....he became so called "great" when LT wasnt all that and he had to throw most of the time cause sproles is a midgit

maybe im hard on him cause i hate him, but he doesnt have a running game and has legendary stats right now because of it
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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So...Rivers sucks because he stepped up his game when the Chargers needed him to? I'm confused.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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rivers doesnt suck....never said that. i actually called him a great passer as a QB, but theres more to being a QB imo, thats all im saying.

i just dont think he sucks, but i also dont think legendary garbage time numbers=greatness
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Rivers > Big Ben >>> Rodgers. To say Rivers had a stud Defense with the defense Big Ben has won super bowls with is a bit hilarious, considering his first SB appearance he payed pretty poorly. Rivers is getting underrated because of how poorly his team is playing, but dont be surprised to see him bring this team back from the dead to push for winning that division.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:21 AM    (permalink
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The Roethlisberger argument can be made with a straight face because of the winning, but if you logically think about all the factors in evaluating the two players, Rivers is clearly better.

Big Ben does have two Super Bowls - I'm not knocking him at all, he's a fine QB (although he played terribly in the first one). But Rivers never had the defense, running game, and just overall Pittsburgh awesomeness helping him.
I love both players and I think both are a bit underrated.

To play devils advocate here, Big Ben was in his second season when he played like dog **** against Seattle. Philip Rivers was sitting on the bench during his second season. Most QBs are usually just trying to take a step forward in year 2. Granted, Big Ben did choke and by his own admission, he played poorly because of nerves. We can also see this evidence by his annihilation of Denver in the Championship game where he had one of the best games of his career. He was also great against the Colts in the divisional playoffs (in a game much closer than it should have been due to a terrible call over ruling a clear INT by Polamlu) and against Cincinnati in the wild card game. That was one of the toughest schedules any QB has seen in the playoffs. His abysmal Super Bowl performance disguises some great QB play for a guy only in his second season. His play in the 2005 playoffs were still better than his play in the 2008 playoffs despite the atrocious SB performance. 2008 gave him his career defining drive and his signature play. That game winning drive was legendary stuff.

His second SB win was an MVP caliber game. Terrible play calling (giving the ball to the most overrated RB of the 00s, Willie Parker) made for a stagnate second and third QTs that allowed Arizona to get back in the game. They had Big Ben throw the ball all over the field and dominate the first half, then they thought they would be able to sit on it and play defense. That running game was terrible, and if you recall, their pass protection was atrocious that season (sacked 54 times in 19 games). Big Ben had that team on his back and has no business winning in the playoffs, let alone winning the Super Bowl. That was one of the worst offensive lines to ever win a Super Bowl. The great Steeler's defense didn't show up in that game either.

With Roethlisberger there is a lot of misconception that he is nothing more than a game manager that relies solely on his perennially great running game and defense. Simply not true. I said it when it happened and I'll say it again... no other QB could win the Super Bowl behind that offensive in 2008. He made more plays and kept more plays alive that it was simply astonishing. That was not a great team. Missing the playoffs the following season was not shocking.

In the 2008 playoffs, Philip Rivers and Big Ben went head-to-head, and Rivers only threw for 308 yards and 3 TDs against the great Steelers defense. This was one week after Rivers upset Peyton Manning. This was the great 8-8 team that started the season 4-8 and had an injured LT (who wasn't nearly as explosive as he is this year, let alone prior to that) and a hobbled Antonio Gates (who still played out of his mind) in the playoffs. He did lead a game tying drive to force OT where it was mostly all Sproles against IND. I thought that was an MVP caliber season for Rivers (he actually put up better numbers across the board than Manning other than in the win column). That was a below average team with a ton of holes. This was Rivers 3rd season a starter. So when Rivers just started peeking, he was surrounded by a declining, aging and underachieving team.

2007, he had a better team that finished 11-5, had a really strong finish to the regular season, but tore his ACL (in his plant leg) in his great performance against the defending champion Colts. Once again, LT was garbage and hardly played in the AFC Championship game after going down early with a knee injury against NE. That was, once again, with a hobbled Antonio Gates that had a dislocated toe where he was in and out of the lineup throughout the playoffs. That loss was to the undefeated New England Patriots. Although Rivers has been very pedestrian in the playoffs, he has not had the same talent around him as he's had during the regular season, especially on offense; mostly from injuries to key players.

Here are there stats for each year of each player.

Ben Roethlisberger

2009 - 15 Games - 4,328 yards, 66.6%, 8.6 AVG., 288.5 Yards/G, 26 TDs, 12 INTs, 100.5 QB rating
* Missed playoffs (9 wins, 7 Losses)

2008 - 16 Games - 3,301 yards, 59.9%, 7.0 AVG., 206.3 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 15 INTs, 80.1 QB rating
* Playoffs - (3-0) Won Super Bowl - 692 yards, 60.7%, 7.8 AVG. 3 TDs, 1 INT, 91.6 QB rating

2007 - 15 Games - 3,154 yards, 65.3%, 7.8 AVG., 210.3 Yards/G, 32 TDs, 11 INTs, 104.1 QB rating
* Playoffs - (0-1) - 337 yards, 60.7%, 8.0 AVG. 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 79.2 QB rating

2006 - 15 Games - 3,513 yards, 59.7%, 7.5 AVG., 234.2 Yards/G, 18 TDs, 23 INTs, 75.4 QB rating
* Missed playoffs (8 wins, 8 Losses)

2005 - 12 Games - 2,385 yards, 62.7%, 8.9 AVG., 198.8 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 9 INTs, 98.6 QB rating
* Playoffs - (4-0) Won Super Bowl - 803 yards, 60.7%, 8.6 AVG. 7 TDs, 3 INTs, 101.7 QB rating

2004 - 14 Games - 2,621 yards, 66.4%, 8.9 AVG., 187.2 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 11 INTs, 98.1 QB rating
* Playoffs - (1-1) - 407 yards, 57.4%, 7.5 AVG. 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 61.3 QB rating


Philip Rivers

2009 - 16 Games - 4,254 yards, 65%, 8.8 AVG., 265.9 Yards/G, 28 TDs, 9 INTs, 104.4 QB rating
* Playoffs - (0-1) - 298 yards, 67.5%, 7.5 AVG. 1 TD, 2 INTs, 76.9 QB rating

2008 - 16 Games - 4,009 yards, 65.3%, 8.4 AVG., 250.6 Yards/G, 34 TDs, 11 INTs, 105.5 QB rating
* Playoffs - (1-1) - 525 yards, 57.7%, 7.4 AVG. 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 83.4 QB rating

2007 - 16 Games - 3,152 yards, 60.2%, 8.4 AVG., 197.0 Yards/G, 21 TDs, 15 INTs, 82.4 QB rating
* Playoffs - (2-1) - 576 yards, 60.5%, 8.9 AVG. 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 85.8 QB rating

2006 - 16 Games - 3,388 yards, 60.2%, 7.4 AVG., 211.8 Yards/G, 22 TDs, 9 INTs, 92.0 QB rating
* Playoffs - (0-1) - 230 yards, 43.8%, 7.2 AVG. 0 TDs, 1 INT, 55.5 QB rating


Right now, I would say Rivers and Rodges have the most potential among QBs under 30, but Ben Roethlisberger is still the best QB under 30. He's done way too much, has played great in big games, has more comeback wins than every other QB not named Peyton Manning since he entered the league and has 2 rings. I know he's not on pace for 5,000 yards passing and 40 TDs like Rivers is this year, but he has had a pretty impressive start to his career. Minus some occasional raping and motorcycle accidents that have ****** him up, he been stellar. Off field issues have caused great inconsistency on a yearly basis. Rivers has been Peyton Manning-like consistent over the last 2 1/2 years.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:23 AM    (permalink
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all Big Ben did was beat "The worst playoff team in NFL history"

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Old 11-02-2010, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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Rivers > Big Ben >>> Rodgers. To say Rivers had a stud Defense with the defense Big Ben has won super bowls with is a bit hilarious, considering his first SB appearance he payed pretty poorly. Rivers is getting underrated because of how poorly his team is playing, but dont be surprised to see him bring this team back from the dead to push for winning that division.
see i think that like rivers and ben, rodgers runs a masterful offense....i think hes being a bit underrated right now cause of the unfortunate year hes had losing his entire running game and his favorite receiver.

sure steelers d>chargers d, but LT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>parker
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