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Old 11-01-2010, 02:20 PM    (permalink
katnip
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Default Brian Dawkins place in among safety's?

Just wondering what his place is.. Considering he's made quite a few pro bowl & all pro teams
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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As an Eagles fan, I'm somewhat biased, but his place among safeties is way up on the list. I'm not going to go all out homer and say he is the best Safety to ever play the game, but he is a man who will get into the HOF, and if it were up to me, it'd be first ballot. That said, it may be tough to make first ballot HOF for him, but it is definitely possible. In his prime he was an elite force in every aspect of his game, and even now is still a feared member of the secondary. As far as his "place in history", I'd say he is right in the second tier of greatest Safeties.
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Dawkins helped redefine the position of FS. He was amazingly effective in coverage and at the line of scrimmage. In his prime, he covered amazing amounts of ground. His numbers stack up well, and he's the only safety with 20+ INT's and 20+ sacks in his career. He was the best or one of the best safeties in football for about 10 years. Might not be a first ballot HOFer, but he will make it to Canton eventually.
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter, pure safeties rarely make it into Canton, no matter who they are.

Darren Woodson, Steve Atwater, John Lynch, etc. and endless names I'm certainly forgetting are on par with kickers and special teamers when it comes to HOF voters.

We'll see if safeties start to receive more consideration as times passes, but I doubt it.
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Woodson will eventually make it as a CB/S. He has the numbers and the titles. Dawkins was a revolutionary type of safety. He will eventually make it. I believe he had a greater impact and for longer than Atwater and Lynch. He is likely the best of his generation.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Dawkins helped redefine the position of FS. He was amazingly effective in coverage and at the line of scrimmage. In his prime, he covered amazing amounts of ground. His numbers stack up well, and he's the only safety with 20+ INT's and 20+ sacks in his career. He was the best or one of the best safeties in football for about 10 years. Might not be a first ballot HOFer, but he will make it to Canton eventually.
Oh, hi... My name is Rodney.

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Old 11-01-2010, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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I think there may be 3 or 4 safeties with 20 and 20, but Harrison is the only with 30 and 30, and Dawk is the only with 20 sacks and 35 INTs. At least I think, its been a while since I looked at any of it. Either way, its a great accomplishment, for both of them.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Oh, hi... My name is Rodney.

Show him as a Charger. That is where he did his real damage. Rodney was my all-time favorite prior to his NE days...
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Show him as a Charger. That is where he did his real damage. Rodney was my all-time favorite prior to his NE days...
He was damn good in NE and actually showcased his abilities in the playoffs where he was a ******* beast. Probably one of the most underrated safeties over the last 15 years. I think he's a HOFer.

With Dawkins "generation" of safeties I would rank him 3rd/4th (really a toss up with Harrison imo).

1. Ed Reed
2. Tory Polamalu
3. Rodney Harrison
4. Brian Dawkins
5. Darren Sharper
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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He was damn good in NE and actually showcased his abilities in the playoffs where he was a ******* beast. Probably one of the most underrated safeties over the last 15 years. I think he's a HOFer.

With Dawkins "generation" of safeties I would rank him 3rd/4th (really a toss up with Harrison imo).

1. Ed Reed
2. Tory Polamalu
3. Rodney Harrison
4. Brian Dawkins
5. Darren Sharper
Ed Reed isn't in brian dawkins generation, he's five years younger (as is Troy) and isnt even close to the run supporting safety dawkins is. Reed is a playmaker, a ballhawk, an amazing cover safety, but he isnt near dawkins or harrison in run defense.

Dawkins wasn't used as a rover like Troy and Harrison were as well, he isn't in any way better than either, but he's no joke- he's vicious against run and pass and was the heart of his team for a very long time. I dont like the eagles, but i sure as hell respect Dawkins
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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He was damn good in NE and actually showcased his abilities in the playoffs where he was a ******* beast. Probably one of the most underrated safeties over the last 15 years. I think he's a HOFer.

With Dawkins "generation" of safeties I would rank him 3rd/4th (really a toss up with Harrison imo).

1. Ed Reed
2. Tory Polamalu
3. Rodney Harrison
4. Brian Dawkins
5. Darren Sharper
who the f*ck is Tory?
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I think there may be 3 or 4 safeties with 20 and 20, but Harrison is the only with 30 and 30, and Dawk is the only with 20 sacks and 35 INTs. At least I think, its been a while since I looked at any of it. Either way, its a great accomplishment, for both of them.
There are 3 currently playing. Dawkins, Adrian Wilson and Lawyer Milloy.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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I would argue that Dawkins is the "Ray Lewis" of safeties, all heart and soul, clearly from a leadership perspective one of the top safeties of all time (Harrison is in the conversation as well), smart, and he produced. If I had a vote for the Hall his name would be on it all ready...
Better in coverage than Troy, but not as good as Reed or Sharper, good in run support just below Troy and Harrison, but not more than a hair or two behind, over all I would put him behind Troy and Reed at #3 overall, and if Reed didnt control the air like he does, I would put him at #2 overall. In regards to this current generation in general.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I think like a lot of Safeties he may struggle when it comes to the Hall. I don't believe he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's right in the same group as Rodney Harrison, John Lynch etc IMO(just to clarify I believe Harrison would be most deserving as he has the stats, his play spoke for itself and the rings). However there were great safeties passed over and when it comes down they may have to compete directly with Ed Reed and Polamalu who are almost definite first ballot HoFers
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Ed Reed isn't in brian dawkins generation, he's five years younger (as is Troy) and isnt even close to the run supporting safety dawkins is. Reed is a playmaker, a ballhawk, an amazing cover safety, but he isnt near dawkins or harrison in run defense.

Dawkins wasn't used as a rover like Troy and Harrison were as well, he isn't in any way better than either, but he's no joke- he's vicious against run and pass and was the heart of his team for a very long time. I dont like the eagles, but i sure as hell respect Dawkins
I think the top 4 players I listed deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and I think they're all among the best safeties to ever play. That includes Dawkins. I put Dawkins in with Reed and Troy since Dawkins is still playing, and he was playing at a high level while Reed and Troy were playing at a high level. I used the word generation loosely (see quotation marks). They all played during the same time period. That, simply put, is a generation.

Reed didn't have to be up in the box. That wasn't his job. He could do it, but he was on a defense talented enough to utilize his ball hawking skills and take away the deep ball. Reed wasn't just a ballhawk, he was the best ballhawk to ever play and no one else is even close. Sean Taylor would have probably developed into that kind of rare ballhawk. Dawkins wasn't the best run support safety. He was a complete player, but not necessarily a better player than Reed. With that said, I think Dawkins is one of the best 5 or 10 safeties of all time and a guy who should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is one of my favorite players, but so is Troy Polamalu, Rodney Harrison and Ed Reed.

My list would be:

1. Ronnie Lott
2. Ed Reed
3. Troy Polamalu
4. Rodney Harrison
5. Brian Dawkins
6. Steve Atwater
7. Jack Tatum
8. Larry Wilson
9. John Lynch
10. Darren Sharper

I think the top 8 are all Hall of Fame caliber players.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I think the top 4 players I listed deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and I think they're all among the best safeties to ever play. That includes Dawkins. I put Dawkins in with Reed and Troy since Dawkins is still playing, and he was playing at a high level while Reed and Troy were playing at a high level. I used the word generation loosely (see quotation marks). They all played during the same time period. That, simply put, is a generation.

Reed didn't have to be up in the box. That wasn't his job. He could do it, but he was on a defense talented enough to utilize his ball hawking skills and take away the deep ball. Reed wasn't just a ballhawk, he was the best ballhawk to ever play and no one else is even close. Sean Taylor would have probably developed into that kind of rare ballhawk. Dawkins wasn't the best run support safety. He was a complete player, but not necessarily a better player than Reed. With that said, I think Dawkins is one of the best 5 or 10 safeties of all time and a guy who should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is one of my favorite players, but so is Troy Polamalu, Rodney Harrison and Ed Reed.

My list would be:

1. Ronnie Lott
2. Ed Reed
3. Troy Polamalu
4. Rodney Harrison
5. Brian Dawkins
6. Steve Atwater
7. Jack Tatum
8. Larry Wilson
9. John Lynch
10. Darren Sharper

I think the top 8 are all Hall of Fame caliber players.
Am I the only one that thinks Troy Polamalu is slightly overrated?
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one that thinks Troy Polamalu is slightly overrated?
If you're dominating games as a safety, you cannot be overrated IMO

that list above is slightly out of whack though, where is Ken Houston
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
His numbers stack up well, and he's the only safety with 20+ INT's and 20+ sacks in his career.
Adrian Wilson also has 20/20
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:35 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Why should I care about sacks for a safety? They are nice but I can't see them as being of any importance when debating who is the best.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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If you're dominating games as a safety, you cannot be overrated IMO

that list above is slightly out of whack though, where is Ken Houston
I agree, it's just that I think Troy should be at least behind other game dominating safeties like Harrison and Dawkins.

Also, where is Emlen Tunnel?
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I think there may be 3 or 4 safeties with 20 and 20, but Harrison is the only with 30 and 30, and Dawk is the only with 20 sacks and 35 INTs. At least I think, its been a while since I looked at any of it. Either way, its a great accomplishment, for both of them.

4 Safeties 6 LBs and 1 CB in the 20/20 club.

Adrian Wilson joined in 2009 and Lawyer Milloy joined earlier this year.

Wilson was actually the fastest safety to join the club. He joined in his 9th season as a pro, Harrison in his 10th, Dawkins in his 13th and Milloy in his 15th.


Also, Dawkins is the only safety in the 20/20/20 club (the last 20 being fumbles forced.)
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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I think that the general legacy of Dawkins would be significantly different had the Eagles managed to win a Superbowl. There was a time where Dawkins was the unquestioned leader of one of the best defenses in the NFL, a unit who's versatility was matched perfectly by Dawkins' ability to do just about everything. Behind Raw Lewis, I'd venture that he's the most recognized defender of the last 10 years for his leadership and playoff performances.

Dawkins was a pretty awesome player, but maybe his versatility hurt him. He wasn't like Polamalu, who's just awesome within 10 yards of the LOS, nor was he was he like Reed, who made plays on the ball at a higher rate than basically any defensive back since Rod Woodson. He was somewhere in between, which puts him in a somewhat nebulous area.
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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I would argue he should be a first ballot HOFer. I think the safety position has changed in this last generation and with the evolution of the passing game safety has become even more important.

Just have a look at the top defensive teams of the past decade and you will find Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and New England are just about the top 4. Not some shock that the names Reed, Polamalu, Dawkins and Harrison go hand in hand with that.

Cardinals defense has been pretty damn good the last few years, around the same time that Wilson became a star. With Sanders the Colts are a good defense, without they are woeful. Patriots current unit seems to ebb and flow with Merriweather. The Titans seem to ebb and flow with Griffin. With Sharper the Saints are a turnover machine, without him they are a walkover.

Safeties have become pivotal and I think that should be reflected by the HOF. Just as people will list that only x WR have gotten in they do it with safeties, the game has changed though, there are probably only 3 or 4 RBs in the league and the last few years who have put together or look like possibly putting together HOF careers, ditto for LBs. You could argue that right now that Patrick Willis and DeMarcus Ware are the only two LBs in the entire league under 30 that are likely HOF guys(I'm probably forgetting someone) but the league has changed in the last 10 years and I think the HOF should reflect that.

For mine Dawkins, Reed and Harrison should already be 1st ballot HOF players and Polamalu is 2nd ballot on the doorstep of 1st. I guess the question should extend if guys like Sharper or Lynch also have a case. Sharper was a great ball hawk who has really elevated his career the last two years after being below average in Minnesota, what is going for him is that even when he was playing very poorly in Minnesota he was putting up stats which when looked back on will look good.

Going to be very interesting, the HOF and the NFL in general have shown to be very resistant to change and adapting to it so will be interesting to see how delayed their reaction to the changing game is and I think WR and S will be the two positions that will reflect the change when/if it happens.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I would argue he should be a first ballot HOFer. I think the safety position has changed in this last generation and with the evolution of the passing game safety has become even more important.

Just have a look at the top defensive teams of the past decade and you will find Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and New England are just about the top 4. Not some shock that the names Reed, Polamalu, Dawkins and Harrison go hand in hand with that.

Cardinals defense has been pretty damn good the last few years, around the same time that Wilson became a star. With Sanders the Colts are a good defense, without they are woeful. Patriots current unit seems to ebb and flow with Merriweather. The Titans seem to ebb and flow with Griffin. With Sharper the Saints are a turnover machine, without him they are a walkover.

Safeties have become pivotal and I think that should be reflected by the HOF. Just as people will list that only x WR have gotten in they do it with safeties, the game has changed though, there are probably only 3 or 4 RBs in the league and the last few years who have put together or look like possibly putting together HOF careers, ditto for LBs. You could argue that right now that Patrick Willis and DeMarcus Ware are the only two LBs in the entire league under 30 that are likely HOF guys(I'm probably forgetting someone) but the league has changed in the last 10 years and I think the HOF should reflect that.

For mine Dawkins, Reed and Harrison should already be 1st ballot HOF players and Polamalu is 2nd ballot on the doorstep of 1st. I guess the question should extend if guys like Sharper or Lynch also have a case. Sharper was a great ball hawk who has really elevated his career the last two years after being below average in Minnesota, what is going for him is that even when he was playing very poorly in Minnesota he was putting up stats which when looked back on will look good.

Going to be very interesting, the HOF and the NFL in general have shown to be very resistant to change and adapting to it so will be interesting to see how delayed their reaction to the changing game is and I think WR and S will be the two positions that will reflect the change when/if it happens.
I pretty much co-sign this whole post.

As an aside, I've always said the biggest difference between the colts and the bears that year was that Bob Sanders played and Mike Brown didn't.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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4 Safeties 6 LBs and 1 CB in the 20/20 club.

Adrian Wilson joined in 2009 and Lawyer Milloy joined earlier this year.

Wilson was actually the fastest safety to join the club. He joined in his 9th season as a pro, Harrison in his 10th, Dawkins in his 13th and Milloy in his 15th.


Also, Dawkins is the only safety in the 20/20/20 club (the last 20 being fumbles forced.)
That is probably what bsaza was thinking of when he had the 20/20 post. I remember seeing that two years ago too.
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