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Old 11-11-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
SeanTaylorRIP
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Luck and Stanzi, who both have better passing numbers than Newton, are supposed to feel guilty, i dont think so.
Except Cam only has like 100 yards and 1 or 2 TD's less passing than them while having over 1000 more yards and over 10TD's more rushing for the most likely #1 or 2 team. Not saying anyone who would win it would feel guilty or feel like they don't deserve it, but they have to know that they weren't the true #1 player in the country. I was actually pretty shocked looking at the passing numbers how close Cam is to someone like Luck when some games Cam never even threw the ball. I know a lot is stat padding against bad teams, but still.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it will be all that different than when someone wins it and there are more deserving players. It will just be the most recent case of it, and while it will be remembered for the scandal(s) costing Newton, it will likely be forgotten after like 5 years.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
Except Cam only has like 100 yards and 1 or 2 TD's less passing than them while having over 1000 more yards and over 10TD's more rushing for the most likely #1 or 2 team. Not saying anyone who would win it would feel guilty or feel like they don't deserve it, but they have to know that they weren't the true #1 player in the country. I was actually pretty shocked looking at the passing numbers how close Cam is to someone like Luck when some games Cam never even threw the ball. I know a lot is stat padding against bad teams, but still.
Most of the time the Heisman doesn't go to the #1 overall player anyway.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Usually though when the wrong guy is chosen it's because it goes to the QB or top player of the #1 team in the nation, and since Darron Thomas isn't considered a Heisman candidate for whatever reason, that guy is Newton as well.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Except Cam only has like 100 yards and 1 or 2 TD's less passing than them while having over 1000 more yards and over 10TD's more rushing for the most likely #1 or 2 team. Not saying anyone who would win it would feel guilty or feel like they don't deserve it, but they have to know that they weren't the true #1 player in the country. I was actually pretty shocked looking at the passing numbers how close Cam is to someone like Luck when some games Cam never even threw the ball. I know a lot is stat padding against bad teams, but still.
Minor correction, but Cam has 400 yards and 1-3 TDs less passing in 1 more game.

He also has 400 more total yards than Luck in 1 more game, but 9 more total TDs. And yea, 13 of his 34 TDs have come against teams I could beat by myself, where as Luck had 4 TDs against his only non-BCS caliber opponent, and Stanzi 4 TDs against his 2 non-BCS caliber opponent.

Not disagreeing that Newton isn't most deserving, just clarifying some stats and showing that there is also more to it than numbers, as you stated. And it's not Cam's fault Auburn has a pathetic schedule.

Side note: Stanford is awesome. They have ONE non-BCS caliber opponent on their schedule. That's how every BCS teams should schedule. Granted, they only have 3 OOC not 4, but still.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Most of the time the Heisman doesn't go to the #1 overall player anyway.
Yup. The "Most Outstanding Player in the Country" award has turned into "The Best Player on the Best Team" award.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Side note: Stanford is awesome. They have ONE non-BCS caliber opponent on their schedule. That's how every BCS teams should schedule. Granted, they only have 3 OOC not 4, but still.
Yeah, I'm sick of OSU's pathetic OOC scheduling. They usually get one premier BCS OOC opponent and then a bunch of schlubs.

And this year their premiere opponent turned out to suck ass.

Cam so far deserves the Hypesman. Great player on a great team. Luck and Denard need to be in the conversation as well.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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He'll still win the Heisman and still play for the national title (not sure how Oregon's O will do against Auburns D or how Auburn's O will deal with Oregon's D).

There is almost no way the NCAA could find a smoking gun in less than a few years. And they are not going to derail this for one school's claims. So far the only sources all come out of Mississippi State - a school that could quite frankly be jealous. No one else that had dealings with Newton has suggested that he was after cash.

So, while 5 years from now we might be saying that he cheated, right now the show will likely go on as it has.

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Most of the time the Heisman doesn't go to the #1 overall player anyway.
Eh, Stats are not everything. If they were, someone from a QB friendly offense in a conference like the MWC would win it every year.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm sick of OSU's pathetic OOC scheduling. They usually get one premier BCS OOC opponent and then a bunch of schlubs.

And this year their premiere opponent turned out to suck ass.

Cam so far deserves the Hypesman. Great player on a great team. Luck and Denard need to be in the conversation as well.
Nothing screams premier out of conference scheduling like Chattanooga
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Nothing screams premier out of conference scheduling like Chattanooga
I will see your Chattanooga and raise you a directional state school (Eastern Illinois).

To compound this argument, at least schedule the cupcakes at the beginning of the year. I hate that teams will schedule crap teams in like week 9 or 10 when it's more likely that A. your team will be running on all cylinders and B. the other team will be worn down, and thus even more pathetic.

The whole point of cupcakes is to play them early and work off all the rust from the offseason, not in the last 1/3 of the season so that your team can beat up on someone and avoid a let down. SEC teams are notorious for this, but other BCS teams as well.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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I think 4 guys will be invited to New York. Cam, LaMichael, Kellen Moore, and Luck. If Cam doesn't win it I'm leaning towards Moore winning it with James as the dark horse. After that I think it would be rated(Not my rankings but what I think the rankings will be):

5) Terelle Pryor
6) Darron Thomas
7) Andy Dalton
8 ) Justin Blackmon
9) Ricky Stanzi
10) Denard Robinson
guys after this Kendall Hunter, John Clay, Landry Jones, Nick Foles, etc.

I think Denard is out of the running now. Looking at Michigan's schedule they could easily have 4 or 5 loses when the season is done and I understand it's not Denard's fault his defense blows but Auburn and Oregon also have bad defenses. Also I don't think he's in the running anymore because he isn't getting anywhere near the 2,000 yards rushing that we thought he would, and since Cam Newton is right behind him in rushing yards it doesn't seem as special anymore. Also he's missed a bunch of time and Forcier has stepped in and played well, plus the 7 INT's.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Nothing screams premier out of conference scheduling like Chattanooga
Yea, while OSU doesn't have a major opponent for every OOC game, neither does anyone else.

While others might disagree with my BCS-love, I do think it's games like Chattanooga and Louisiana Lafayette that make it so hard to decide who is the best team in the country because it's so hard to determine which conference deserves the respect from year to year.

Last year, the Big 10s OOC scheduling was abysmal (the biggest win was Wisconsin's OT win over Fresno State or something like that). Yet, they showed up to their bowl games in force (PSU over LSU, OSU over Oregon, etc).
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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If you're going to criticize Newton for playing some weak out of conference opponents, tell us the player who hasn't played any weak teams. Kellen Moore? 75% of Boise State's schedule is weak teams.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Nothing screams premier out of conference scheduling like Chattanooga
Um, hello? Arkansas State? Louisiana-Monroe?
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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If you're going to criticize Newton for playing some weak out of conference opponents, tell us the player who hasn't played any weak teams. Kellen Moore? 75% of Boise State's schedule is weak teams.
More like 95 percent.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I don't necessarily have a problem with Moore, but with their schedule and how dominant their team is in all facets of the game against inferior competition, you could put Jordan Jefferson at QB for them and they'd still probably run the table with the possible exception of the Vatech game. Take Newton, Luck, Stanzi, Foles, etc, from their teams and they are bad teams. Ken Dorsey was a two time Heisman finalist so Moore deserves to be there, he just doesn't deserve to win it.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Side note: Stanford is awesome. They have ONE non-BCS caliber opponent on their schedule. That's how every BCS teams should schedule. Granted, they only have 3 OOC not 4, but still.
Side note:
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Eh, Stats are not everything. If they were, someone from a QB friendly offense in a conference like the MWC would win it every year.
Huh? I said nothing about stats, nor implied anything about stats.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Huh? I said nothing about stats, nor implied anything about stats.
Although Suh's stats were freaking awesome last year so maybe they do back up the statement ;)
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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It doesnt matter for Auburn if he wins the heisman or not the national championship is more important. and id rather just play him and risk getting an asterik by the win then not play him and just loss out. its if he is innocent we win if he isnt then oh well better to try and get screwed then screw yourself.

I agree the heisman is "the best player on the best team" but there is no perfect scenario to make all the schedules and conditions equal to see who is the best player imo. But obviously your team has to be doing something to get mentioned. the heisman should be a key role in a good team like LaMichael James and Luck but D-robs team is 6-3 and possibly getting worse he shouldnt be in consideration though if his team isnt that good.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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ESPN reporting now that the FBI will be talking to Bond now.

Bond said it's "b/c they don't want them buying children for hundreds of thousands of $..."

Buying children? I thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sportscenter...teve-smith-out

Auburn now saying No Comment on whether Newton will start or play vs. UGA Saturday.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Maybe. However, rivals in the SEC love dropping the bomb on other programs.
See Fulmer, Tennessee.
It was actually Arkansas that turned in Bama for the Albert Means violation. Fulmer will always be the face of it all and played a big part, considering his closed door meetings with the NCAA, the meeting with that Culpepper guy, and the absolute disdain that Bama fans have for him with the accusations of a UT-led conspiracy to bring them down, but Nutt, Fulmer, and Spurrier all had their fingers pointed at Bama. And after Bama was found guilty, can you blame them?

Not trying to start anything or get this off topic. Just trying to provide a little clarity.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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Buying children? I thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery.
This is the mentality that people have that lead them to believe that players should be paid, rightly or wrongly.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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So, Newton's Dad admitted to talking to schools about getting money, but claims Cam and his mother didn't know about it.

http://www.wsbtv.com/sports/25778803/detail.html
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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So, Newton's Dad admitted to talking to schools about getting money, but claims Cam and his mother didn't know about it.

http://www.wsbtv.com/sports/25778803/detail.html
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