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View Poll Results: Who's gonna be the best of these QB's when all is said and done?
Josh Freeman, Bucs 59 15.09%
Matthew Stafford, Lions 125 31.97%
Sam Bradford, Rams 76 19.44%
Mark Sanchez, Jets 19 4.86%
Joe Flacco, Ravens 33 8.44%
Matt Ryan, Falcons 79 20.20%
Voters: 391. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2011, 12:37 AM    (permalink
SickwithIt1010
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
If that's the truth, then Freeman and the young Bucs might be dangerous.
the jets will be scarier.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:38 AM    (permalink
timewaster
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
I have come around a bit on Sanchez and I give him some serious props for his game tonight.

He showed some serious toughness withstanding that barrage from Woodley, Harrison, Timmons.

I think he does have a better future than I initially thought.

I like him better than Flacco. He's way tougher than Stafford.
Still not sure where Freeman and Bradford belong.....

Just tonight? Last week in NE? Two weeks ago in INDY. Kid has been in 6 playoff games. He is 4-2 in those games. And played well in all of them.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JETS5128 View Post
Are you ******* kidding me man? So what your saying is that we should discredit all the good things he does and emphasize the mistakes he makes. Sounds like a pretty fool-proof strategy to win an argument. The bolded sentence is where you almost got it right, except that Sanchez has been compensating for the other members of this team



Yes he is streaky, but that is assumed with a young, inexperienced QB. The few times in his career he has been relied on to win the game, he has come through. Mainly however, Schotty has tailored this offense to not rely on Sanchez to win games, and basically force him into managing the game. Mistake Prone? He had 11 less turnovers this year than he did last year, clearly he is learning to take care of the ball



That is nice. You know what else is nice? Throwing for 200+ yards and 2 TD's against the best D in the NFL in the biggest game of your career. Or having 9 TD's vs. 3 INT's in your post-season career. Just because Sanchez has considerable room for improvement doesn't mean he isnt already on his way to becoming a damn good QB
Soooo which is it...is he just on his way to becoming a damn good QB with considerable room for improvement (not a bad point perhaps), or is he top 5 in 2-3 years? You seem to be twisting the argument more towards me just nit-picking for over-analyzing him and trying to say he's just on his way toward being pretty damn good. I responded to your boast that he is going to be top 5 in 2 or 3 years...that is ridiculous. In 2-3 years Mark Sanchez will not be elevated over Brady, Manning. Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers or Ryan and you can make a strong case for Freeman, Cassel, Bradford, Romo, Eli Manning or Vick, if he's still starting. Top 5, no way. Top 10 he'd even have a hard time cracking. His play needs to improve drastically to reach that number. Again, if Edwards leaves, who is the big 6'5 target for him next year? As much as I hate Edwards, he did good things for Sanchez and the Jets this year. At times he was only guy that could reach his passes when they were floating...like in Indy. They better get that guy for him or he will miss that big target. You can only go so far on Santonio Holmes crossing routes or quick hitches. This isn't to attack Sanchez but it could affect his development.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by timewaster View Post
Just tonight? Last week in NE? Two weeks ago in INDY. Kid has been in 6 playoff games. He is 4-2 in those games. And played well in all of them.
He did not play well in Indy and I wouldn't classify today as anything special. People wanna call it gutsy but a lot of it was from them just watching Jay Cutler leave a game after being farted on. You pull that Cutler stuff in NY, you can't leave your own home for an entire year, and he damn well knows that. Without that team around him he isn't a playoff QB...people can't grasp that.there are plenty of better QBs with less talented teams around them that nobody is talking about because their team didn't go on a shopping spree in the offseason. Its not to say they're any less a QB than Mark Sanchez for having a lot of makeup put on his game.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:05 AM    (permalink
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His play needs to improve drastically to reach that number. Again, if Edwards leaves, who is the big 6'5 target for him next year?
He doesn't have a 6'5 target right now so why would it bother him if Edwards were not replaced by one.

I really hate when people make **** up, Braylon Edwards isn't even 6'3 yet you want to call him 6'5... Say he is going to lose a big play receiver but don't make stuff up to try and diminish his achievements and I'm not even a big Sanchez fan, I just hate when people talk crap.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JPP90 View Post
Soooo which is it...is he just on his way to becoming a damn good QB with considerable room for improvement (not a bad point perhaps), or is he top 5 in 2-3 years? You seem to be twisting the argument more towards me just nit-picking for over-analyzing him and trying to say he's just on his way toward being pretty damn good. I responded to your boast that he is going to be top 5 in 2 or 3 years...that is ridiculous. In 2-3 years Mark Sanchez will not be elevated over Brady, Manning. Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers or Ryan and you can make a strong case for Freeman, Cassel, Bradford, Romo, Eli Manning or Vick, if he's still starting. Top 5, no way. Top 10 he'd even have a hard time cracking. His play needs to improve drastically to reach that number. Again, if Edwards leaves, who is the big 6'5 target for him next year? As much as I hate Edwards, he did good things for Sanchez and the Jets this year. At times he was only guy that could reach his passes when they were floating...like in Indy. They better get that guy for him or he will miss that big target. You can only go so far on Santonio Holmes crossing routes or quick hitches. This isn't to attack Sanchez but it could affect his development.
As someone already pointed out Braylon is not 6'5" get your **** straight and his hands are ver inconsistent...don't think him leaving will kill Mark. I'm not a big Sanchez fan...but he can definitely overtake Romo and Eli...Cassel...you ******** me??
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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Not getting injured doesn't make you tougher.
He played with an injured knee that needed surgery after last season and he's going to need shoulder surgery this off season

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Originally Posted by JPP90 View Post
I wouldn't classify today as anything special. People wanna call it gutsy but a lot of it was from them just watching Jay Cutler leave a game after being farted on. You pull that Cutler stuff in NY, you can't leave your own home for an entire year, and he damn well knows that.
Ahahaha, now you're just making up reasons to hate on him.

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Old 01-24-2011, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter because when all is said and done bradford will be the BEST!
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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JPP90:

Eli Manning - 25 interceptions.

Dude sucks. He makes too many mistakes. Any good things he does, is just him having to make up for the fact he sucks. If it wasn't for the talent on the rest of the team, he'd go 2-14 every year. He's so erratic, and his accuracy is questionable.


Is this argument borderline ********? Yes. Is it the argument you consistently use? ... hmmm ...
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JPP90 View Post
Soooo which is it...is he just on his way to becoming a damn good QB with considerable room for improvement (not a bad point perhaps), or is he top 5 in 2-3 years? You seem to be twisting the argument more towards me just nit-picking for over-analyzing him and trying to say he's just on his way toward being pretty damn good. I responded to your boast that he is going to be top 5 in 2 or 3 years...that is ridiculous. In 2-3 years Mark Sanchez will not be elevated over Brady, Manning. Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers or Ryan and you can make a strong case for Freeman, Cassel, Bradford, Romo, Eli Manning or Vick, if he's still starting.
I said he would arguably be in the top 5. I used 2-3 years because IMO, that is when Brady, Brees and Manning will start to decline (they will be 37, 36 and 38 respectively). Leaving Roethlisberger, Rivers and Rodgers as the truly elite QB's. After those 3 (who look like they could all be on the way to HOF careers) Sanchez will be in that next tier, with Romo and Eli and a couple other guys from this thread

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Top 5, no way. Top 10 he'd even have a hard time cracking. His play needs to improve drastically to reach that number. Again, if Edwards leaves, who is the big 6'5 target for him next year? As much as I hate Edwards, he did good things for Sanchez and the Jets this year. At times he was only guy that could reach his passes when they were floating...like in Indy. They better get that guy for him or he will miss that big target. You can only go so far on Santonio Holmes crossing routes or quick hitches. This isn't to attack Sanchez but it could affect his development.
His play does need to improve. But this guy literally has the work ethic of Peyton Manning, he will put in all the work he can in order to improve his mechanics and accuracy, while still getting an even better grasp of this playbook. He added 5 TDs and cut 7 INT's from his ROOKIE year. Marty told Brian Schottenheimer that if you can get a sophomore QB to play equal to his rookie year, he has made progress. Cleary Sanchez improved ALOT from his rookie year to this year, and I expect him to make even greater strides next year.

In his first 2 years Sanchez has shown that he has everything you need in an elite QB. It is just a question of when he will put it all together. In 2-3 years i see no reason why he won't have put it together
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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I'll admit that Sanchez has proven himself as he improved over the last 2 games, when they mattered. But to tell me he's going to be better than the likes of Ryan, Bradford, or Freeman? I don't agree. Even if Stafford could stay healthy, he'd be 5th on my list, but right now he's 4.

Again, Sanchez got put into THE best situation out of all the QBs. The Jets have one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL (as much as I dislike him, Rex Ryan). They have a super bowl caliber defense and one heck of an offensive line to go along with a top 5 running game. He's got 3 1st round WR/TEs (Keller, Edwards, and Holmes) and Holmes is a veteran playmaker. So tell me how he doesn't have the best help around him? People bash Braylon Edwards, but from what I've seen, he's no where near the player he was when he was with Cleveland and has shown why he was a 1st round pick.

Now, his inconsistency and inaccuracy has made me suspect of his play and the fact that he couldn't do well even with the excellent supporting cast made me cast him off as a potential bust. However, he's showing he can be a solid starter, but he still hasn't showed me he can be an elite guy in this league. Guys like Freeman, who had a bunch of rookies too work with (talented yes, but still made a ton of rookie mistakes ex: drops, bad routes, etc.). Bradford had basically no one to work with and was in a worse situation. Granted he played in the NFC West, but without him, the Rams maybe win 2 games. I am not convinced the Bucs beat the Panthers without Freeman.

To me, the Jets would have been good enough to win atleast 7 or 8 games without Sanchez. Heck, he was the reason they lost some. I know Jets fans are about to go ahead and crown him as an elite guy, but again, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson had games like these, and yet they were just serviceable/average qb's benefiting from a great defense.

Note: Don't forget, the Jets defense absolutely dominated and shut down the Steelers in the 2nd half, so don't give Sanchez 100% of the credit for bringing them back.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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He did not play well in Indy and I wouldn't classify today as anything special. People wanna call it gutsy but a lot of it was from them just watching Jay Cutler leave a game after being farted on. You pull that Cutler stuff in NY, you can't leave your own home for an entire year, and he damn well knows that. Without that team around him he isn't a playoff QB...people can't grasp that.there are plenty of better QBs with less talented teams around them that nobody is talking about because their team didn't go on a shopping spree in the offseason. Its not to say they're any less a QB than Mark Sanchez for having a lot of makeup put on his game.
lolololololololol

Really? So you're saying that if it was just Mark Sanchez vs. the Bills he wouldn't be able to take them on 1 v 11? Damn.

I HAAAAAAAAAATE the "talent/team around him" argument. And making it at the NFL LEVEL is ridiculous. It's ALL about winning.

It is what it is. You can make judgments based on WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURS. When you start saying "without that, without this, if that, if this" your claims are BASELESS. There is no evidence of ANYTHING. Nothing you say can ever be proven.

What can be proven is what ACTUALLY OCCURS.

Sanchez played well throughout the playoffs, including against a great defense on the road in Pittsburgh. The feeling in the air at Heinz field was "we need this first down because we don't want that kid getting the ball back." THAT feeling right there tells you all you need to know about Sanchez as a player.

When you get into rating and ranking it's extremely hairy and difficult. I don't even really care because there's no way you can actually quantify each player and rank them in one ultimately correct list. They're football players - they don't have one set value.

But don't knock Sanchez because his team is good. He's a huge part of their success and HE'S also OBVIOUSLY good as EVIDENCED BY HIS PLAY (particularly when the game is on the line) and knack for WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES (particularly in the playoffs).
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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What impressed me most about sanchez yesterday was the way he was carrying himself. His body language and the way he was acting, you could tell he was in charge and confident, he was leading. The way he seemed calm and with it in the pocket, he showed a lot of composure and I thought he was pretty impressive, showed some real positive signs.

His mechanics need a little tweaking (long stride when he throws probably his biggest issue) but if the new sanchez is always confident like this then he can be a very good qb.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
I have come around a bit on Sanchez and I give him some serious props for his game tonight.

He showed some serious toughness withstanding that barrage from Woodley, Harrison, Timmons.

I think he does have a better future than I initially thought.

I like him better than Flacco. He's way tougher than Stafford.
Still not sure where Freeman and Bradford belong.....
You can say he is less injury prone than Stafford, but I dont see how you can question Staffords toughness?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugA8G4rv_8g
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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oh, and give me Stafford or give me death!!
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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lolololololololol

Really? So you're saying that if it was just Mark Sanchez vs. the Bills he wouldn't be able to take them on 1 v 11? Damn.
I think he means if you put Sanchez on a team like the Bucs, he doesnt even sniff 8-8.

Freeman is on a different level than both Sanchez and Bradford. 25 tds, 6 ints, 96 QBR and 10-6 at age 22 is way more impressive than anything any of these QBs have done. The top 3 QBs in 5 years being Rodgers, Rivers, and Freeman is way more likely than having Sanchez in there.

Sanchez played great vs NE and solid vs PIT but he was lucky as hell to even be in the playoffs with his regular season QBR of what? 70 or something?
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
I think he means if you put Sanchez on a team like the Bucs, he doesnt even sniff 8-8.

Freeman is on a different level than both Sanchez and Bradford. 25 tds, 6 ints, 96 QBR and 10-6 at age 22 is way more impressive than anything any of these QBs have done. The top 3 QBs in 5 years being Rodgers, Rivers, and Freeman is way more likely than having Sanchez in there.

Sanchez played great vs NE and solid vs PIT but he was lucky as hell to even be in the playoffs with his regular season QBR of what? 70 or something?
I know that's what he means. It's just wrong. You don't know how he'd play on the Bucs. And it doesn't matter because he's on the Jets. It's completely hypothetical. Why would you judge someone based on how you THINK he'd perform on a DIFFERENT team when you COULD judge him on how he ACTUALLY PERFORMS ON HIS ACTUAL TEAM? That's my point.

I just don't like when guys who WIN get knocked because they're winning. When they win it's because of everyone else but when they lose it's because of him.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:38 AM    (permalink
Chucky
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I know that's what he means. It's just wrong. You don't know how he'd play on the Bucs. And it doesn't matter because he's on the Jets. It's completely hypothetical. Why would you judge someone based on how you THINK he'd perform on a DIFFERENT team when you COULD judge him on how he ACTUALLY PERFORMS ON HIS ACTUAL TEAM? That's my point.

I just don't like when guys who WIN get knocked because they're winning. When they win it's because of everyone else but when they lose it's because of him.
They don't get knocked for winning but completely ignoring the quality of a quarterbacks surrounding cast when evaluating him is just ******* idiotic.
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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They don't get knocked for winning but completely ignoring the quality of a quarterbacks surrounding cast when evaluating him is just ******* idiotic.
but there's no quantifiable measure... you're just assuming...
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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In fact you can take it even further. If you want to talk about supporting cast then why not also talk about level of competition, etc.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:01 AM    (permalink
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I think when Stafford is in the game the Lions are a different team. I think if he would have played this year the Lions would have won more games then they already did. Look at the Jets game, They were winning and then he gets injured and they lose.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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I think he means if you put Sanchez on a team like the Bucs, he doesnt even sniff 8-8.

Freeman is on a different level than both Sanchez and Bradford. 25 tds, 6 ints, 96 QBR and 10-6 at age 22 is way more impressive than anything any of these QBs have done. The top 3 QBs in 5 years being Rodgers, Rivers, and Freeman is way more likely than having Sanchez in there.

Sanchez played great vs NE and solid vs PIT but he was lucky as hell to even be in the playoffs with his regular season QBR of what? 70 or something?
Josh Freeman rookie season: 10 TDs 18 INTs COMP % 54. 4 QB rating 59.8
in 9 starts
Sam Bradford rookie season: 18 TDS 15 INTs COMP% 60. 0 QB rating 76.5
in 16 starts
but yeah Josh Freeman is totally on a whole different level
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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I think he means if you put Sanchez on a team like the Bucs, he doesnt even sniff 8-8.

Freeman is on a different level than both Sanchez and Bradford. 25 tds, 6 ints, 96 QBR and 10-6 at age 22 is way more impressive than anything any of these QBs have done. The top 3 QBs in 5 years being Rodgers, Rivers, and Freeman is way more likely than having Sanchez in there.

Sanchez played great vs NE and solid vs PIT but he was lucky as hell to even be in the playoffs with his regular season QBR of what? 70 or something?

Oh, 4-2 in the biggest games of his short career dont mean anything.....darn.

Ill take that any day of the week....brings his best game in the biggest moment.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:21 AM    (permalink
Complex
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Oh, 4-2 in the biggest games of his short career dont mean anything.....darn.
beating the panthers(2x), browns, cincy, cardinals, rams, seahawks, redskins and sains( I think they sat theirr starters) > anyone Mark Sanchez beat this year
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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I guess Sanchez finally stopped sulking when his team was playing poorly.

I'm not passing judgement until all of these guys have had 4 years in the league.

Though, I was perplexed in how Rex Ryan keeps jumping off the Sanchez bandwagon everytime something goes wrong and says "we should just run the ball." If Sanchez is that great, why doesn't the coach want the ball in his hands?
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