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View Poll Results: Who's gonna be the best of these QB's when all is said and done?
Josh Freeman, Bucs 59 15.05%
Matthew Stafford, Lions 126 32.14%
Sam Bradford, Rams 76 19.39%
Mark Sanchez, Jets 19 4.85%
Joe Flacco, Ravens 33 8.42%
Matt Ryan, Falcons 79 20.15%
Voters: 392. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell was sticking up for Flacco today saying no wonder he doesnt have success with the 1960s offense and WRs who cant get open. Cam seriously needs to get out of here, Harbaugh is managing his young QB as bad as possible it is just sad.
LOL dumbass Cosel. I'm going to download his podcast and here what he has to say now about Alex.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell was sticking up for Flacco today saying no wonder he doesnt have success with the 1960s offense and WRs who cant get open. Cam seriously needs to get out of here, Harbaugh is managing his young QB as bad as possible it is just sad.
The only time Cam Cameron was a good offensive coordinator he had Drew Brees breaking out, a mammoth offensive line a future hall of fame running back and tight end.

In baltimore he doesn't quite have those weapons. calls the most predictable plays in NFL history. Hell, he's been quoted as saying "the offensive predictability leads to it being unpredictable".

The man is a menace. When you're throwing deep routes to receivers who can't beat man coverage because the defense knows you're running early it makes it a lot harder on the offensive line and quarterback to be efficient.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell was sticking up for Flacco today saying no wonder he doesnt have success with the 1960s offense and WRs who cant get open. Cam seriously needs to get out of here, Harbaugh is managing his young QB as bad as possible it is just sad.
Maybe they bring back Hue Jackson?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Maybe they bring back Hue Jackson?
I would love it more then anything. It would be an absolute perfect fit.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I would love it more then anything. It would be an absolute perfect fit.
Not to mention Flacco loved Hue, and I can't stress how important it is for a QB and OC to be on the same page. (Cam and Flacco clearly aren't)
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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The only time Cam Cameron was a good offensive coordinator he had Drew Brees breaking out, a mammoth offensive line a future hall of fame running back and tight end.

In baltimore he doesn't quite have those weapons. calls the most predictable plays in NFL history. Hell, he's been quoted as saying "the offensive predictability leads to it being unpredictable".

The man is a menace. When you're throwing deep routes to receivers who can't beat man coverage because the defense knows you're running early it makes it a lot harder on the offensive line and quarterback to be efficient.
Or just maybe, Flacco is the problem and just cannot get the job done consistently no matter who his OC is. This is far more likely scenario if you ask me.
Why is it that homer fans always blame the coaches, I remember when Cleveland fans blamed BB for not winning enough and chased him to NE. We can all see how that worked out.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Or just maybe, Flacco is the problem and just cannot get the job done consistently no matter who his OC is. This is far more likely scenario if you ask me.
Why is it that homer fans always blame the coaches, I remember when Cleveland fans blamed BB for not winning enough and chased him to NE. We can all see how that worked out.
Well then you're a ******* idiot who has never watched a single Ravens game in the last 3 seasons. Flacco has his questionable moments, but anyone with a brain can see that Cam Cameron is the problem here.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Cam Cameron's claim to fame (as a play caller) is not being as bad as Jim Zorn.

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Well then you're a ******* idiot who has never watched a single Ravens game in the last 3 seasons. Flacco has his questionable moments, but anyone with a brain can see that Cam Cameron is the problem here.
I've seen a few Ravens games and personally, I feel like Flacco needs a QB coach that can teach him to throw the ball a little better. He throws it like he's throwing to a girl.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Cam Cameron's claim to fame (as a play caller) is not being as bad as Jim Zorn.
He was our QB coach last year :(
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I heard he was OK as a QB coach, but I mean as a play caller.

Jim Zorn ran a double reverse on a fake field goal. If anyone is wondering why he lost his playcalling duties in Washington, that's pretty much why.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Well then you're a ******* idiot who has never watched a single Ravens game in the last 3 seasons. Flacco has his questionable moments, but anyone with a brain can see that Cam Cameron is the problem here.
Yeah, everybody but the owner and the HC, I guess they should be fired as well. I guess they are idiots too. Fans are always right, who can question that, they have the football knowledge to pass judgment on their team without a doubt?????????
Oh wait, a lot of ex football players and HC's on NFL Network are questioning Flacco's abilities, but what do they know?????
Your obviously perfect so you have got to be right.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, everybody but the owner and the HC, I guess they should be fired as well. I guess they are idiots too. Fans are always right, who can question that, they have the football knowledge to pass judgment on their team without a doubt?????????
Oh wait, a lot of ex football players and HC's on NFL Network are questioning Flacco's abilities, but what do they know?????
Your obviously perfect so you have got to be right.
No QB is going to succeed in a system that refuses to tailor itself to the players available. I love Anquan Boldin, but running him 40 yard downfield on fades isn't going to work. And listen, you old piece of ****, for every ex player and HC on NFL network questioning Flacco, there is one questioning Cameron's playcalling as well. Looking beyond his absolute refusal to run the ball, his offensive system is incredibly outdated and his stubborn attitude prevents any tinkering or alterations to be made to that system. Moreover, Flacco isn't allowed to audible. What ******* NFL QB isn't allowed to change the play at the line? Cam Cameron needs to be fired.

But you're probably right, I don't know anything about football or the Baltimore Ravens. I'm just a regular fan, right?
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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What ******* NFL QB isn't allowed to change the play at the line? Cam Cameron needs to be fired.
Mark Sanchez?
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Cosell also said that they compound the problem of having WRs who are unable to separate against man because they don't run any man beater concepts. No stack releases, no bunch, etc.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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No QB is going to succeed in a system that refuses to tailor itself to the players available. I love Anquan Boldin, but running him 40 yard downfield on fades isn't going to work. And listen, you old piece of ****, for every ex player and HC on NFL network questioning Flacco, there is one questioning Cameron's playcalling as well. Looking beyond his absolute refusal to run the ball, his offensive system is incredibly outdated and his stubborn attitude prevents any tinkering or alterations to be made to that system. Moreover, Flacco isn't allowed to audible. What ******* NFL QB isn't allowed to change the play at the line? Cam Cameron needs to be fired.

But you're probably right, I don't know anything about football or the Baltimore Ravens. I'm just a regular fan, right?
Actually, a lot of analysts are beginning to realize this as well.

(Glazer, Billick, Cosell, that one insider on the NFLN)

Most people just watch the games, and if they don't see a QB lighting it up, they blame him.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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cmon There was a stretch during the season when Flacco was throwing 49 percent.

It's naive to think 100 percent of fault goes on the OC. Same as with the Jets.

You're elevated by an amazing run game and by probably the best receiver if not one of the best out of the backfield. You mean to tell me he can't just check it down if his receivers aren't getting any separation?

If the Ravens lose to the patriots they should think about Signing peyton as much as the Jets should because let's face it, The ravens are pretty damn strong all around.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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cmon There was a stretch during the season when Flacco was throwing 49 percent.

It's naive to think 100 percent of fault goes on the OC. Same as with the Jets.

You're elevated by an amazing run game and by probably the best receiver if not one of the best out of the backfield. You mean to tell me he can't just check it down if his receivers aren't getting any separation?

If the Ravens lose to the patriots they should think about Signing peyton as much as the Jets should because let's face it, The ravens are pretty damn strong all around.
And this right here, proves you haven't been watching any Raven games.

Cam doesn't even know how to use Rice creatively. His receiving plays are usually the same for most of the game, making it easy on defenses.

His completion percentage was so low, because thats the type of offense Cam runs. Usually its all or nothing. Smith and Boldin were constantly sent on streaks. (even though we all know thats not a strength of Boldin) The past years his percentage was higher because he had the intermediate WR in Mason, but this year he didn't really have that type of player on offense.

To say Flacco is on Sanchez's level is plain ignorant, and shows your lack of knowledge.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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You're elevated by an amazing run game and by probably the best receiver if not one of the best out of the backfield. You mean to tell me he can't just check it down if his receivers aren't getting any separation?
But that's exactly what Flacco does. There's a reason people mock the Ravens passing offense for being chuck it deep or check down to Rice. If anything the Ravens are too dependent on Rice in the passing game.

Flacco is an erratic QB with spotty accuracy, but the Ravens offense is simplistic and poorly designed. Some of it is probably like that because of Flacco's limitations, but I still don't think Cameron is doing a very good job.

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Old 01-21-2012, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I love how Iamcanadian is hilarious. When it comes to Flacco his bad play is a result of him not playing well. When it comes to Sancez, it's all Shotty's fault and he just needs more time.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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And this right here, proves you haven't been watching any Raven games.

Cam doesn't even know how to use Rice creatively. His receiving plays are usually the same for most of the game, making it easy on defenses.

His completion percentage was so low, because thats the type of offense Cam runs. Usually its all or nothing. Smith and Boldin were constantly sent on streaks. (even though we all know thats not a strength of Boldin) The past years his percentage was higher because he had the intermediate WR in Mason, but this year he didn't really have that type of player on offense.

To say Flacco is on Sanchez's level is plain ignorant, and shows your lack of knowledge.
ok so let me recap:
  • Sanchez sucks because Sanchez sucks
  • Flacco sucks because Cam Cameron sucks

Did I summarize that correctly?

EDIT: btw I love the, "ou obviously don't watch the games" argument. That's a cop out for people that have nothing else rational to say.

Last edited by soybean : 01-21-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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cmon There was a stretch during the season when Flacco was throwing 49 percent.

It's naive to think 100 percent of fault goes on the OC. Same as with the Jets.

You're elevated by an amazing run game and by probably the best receiver if not one of the best out of the backfield. You mean to tell me he can't just check it down if his receivers aren't getting any separation?

If the Ravens lose to the patriots they should think about Signing peyton as much as the Jets should because let's face it, The ravens are pretty damn strong all around.
A better coordinator might actually make the difference though and elevate Flacco's game. Is Cam Cameron really putting Flacco in the best position to win football games by passing it a lot of the time in certain situations? Is he using Ray Rice effectively and/or is he using Ray Rice at times when he should be? Personally I'm just not convinced that Flacco is the main guy that his holding the franchise back on offense. He has been a little inconsistent in his career, but he is good enough to help the Ravens win a championship.

As for this upcoming game, Flacco might play the best game of his career and the Ravens might still lose. So we can't just pin a loss, especially one that hasn't happened yet, on one guy. Flacco played pretty good last year in the playoffs and if it wasn't for his receivers dropping passes and a fumble by Ray Rice in crunch time, the Ravens had a shot to beat the Steelers.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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A better coordinator might actually make the difference though and elevate Flacco's game. Is Cam Cameron really putting Flacco in the best position to win football games by passing it a lot of the time in certain situations? Is he using Ray Rice effectively and/or is he using Ray Rice at times when he should be? Personally I'm just not convinced that Flacco is the main guy that his holding the franchise back on offense. He has been a little inconsistent in his career, but he is good enough to help the Ravens win a championship.

As for this upcoming game, Flacco might play the best game of his career and the Ravens might still lose. So we can't just pin a loss, especially one that hasn't happened yet, on one guy. Flacco played pretty good last year in the playoffs and if it wasn't for his receivers dropping passes and a fumble by Ray Rice in crunch time, the Ravens had a shot to beat the Steelers.
I'm not saying that Cam isn't partially responsible I just think it's kind of ridiculous to think he's FULLY responsible.

He made the post season each season he's been in the league. And aside from the Chiefs win last year he has yet to have a memorable or meaningful game. It can be argued they got to how far they did in spite of him.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Every Coach and GM is right, and the player is the problem. Unless it's Mark Sanchez.

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Old 01-21-2012, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Every Coach and GM is right, and the player is the problem. Unless it's Mark Sanchez.

/iamcanadian.
Yes. That's exactly how it is lol
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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ok so let me recap:
  • Sanchez sucks because Sanchez sucks
  • Flacco sucks because Cam Cameron sucks

Did I summarize that correctly?

EDIT: btw I love the, "ou obviously don't watch the games" argument. That's a cop out for people that have nothing else rational to say.
First of all, this isn't about Sanchez. Theres a reason everyone is debating if he comes back or not. Yet nobody will get into that type of debate about Flacco.

Let me give you same "rational" information.

1st year:
Flacco:
14 TD, 12 INT, 80.3 QBR
Sanchez:
12 TD, 20 INT, 63.0 QBR

2nd year:
Flacco:
21 TD, 12 INT, 88.9 QBR
Sanchez:
17 TD, 13 INT, 75.3 QBR

3rd year:
Flacco:
25 TD, 10 INT, 93.6 QBR
Sanchez:
26 TD, 18 INT, 78.2 QBR

Not to mention many consider this year to be Flacco's worst. (20 TD, 12 INT, 80.9 QBR) Which btw would have been Sanchez's career year. Not sure how anyone with common sense could even compare the 2.

Other than this year, the defenses have been pretty equal. But offensively Sanchez clearly has the better talent.

Drew Brees's 1st 3 years under Cam:
17 TD, 16 INT, 76.9 QBR
11 TD, 15 INT, 67.5 (played in 11 games)
27 TD, 7 INT, 104.8

Phillip Rivers only year under Cam:
22 TD, 9 INT, 92.0 QBR

Now are Brees' and Rivers' stats really that much different than Flacco's? Look at what kind of numbers these guys put up once Cam wasn't there oc.

Last edited by thegreatone : 01-21-2012 at 08:09 PM.
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