Marcel Dareus...a NT???

[D-Unit]

What are your thoughts about that?



I know, I know... I'm expecting the majority to disagree. What I'm expecting to hear is "why would you put him there? It'd be a waste of his talents. blah blah blah." Just like the people who said Glenn Dorsey would be a waste as a 3-4 DE...yet looked terrible as a DT, but has turned it on with KC's switch to the 3-4. Heck, he's doing better than Tyson Jackson who was drafted to be a 3-4 DE. Anyways, without getting off topic... Do you think teams would look at him as a NT? He's a biscuit away from having the prototype weight.

As a Dallas fan, I would draft him to play NT... if it didn't work, then DE. But is that crazy or brilliant?

[wonderbredd24]

Haloti Ngata can play nose tackle, but the reason you don't want him to play nose tackle is because he's so freakishly athletic, he can play end and it's like having a second nose in there at left end.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Haloti Ngata can play nose tackle, but the reason you don't want him to play nose tackle is because he's so freakishly athletic, he can play end and it's like having a second nose in there at left end.

They also have a pretty good NT already playing the position. Most teams don't have that luxury.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Is Dareus a top 10 pick??

[K Train]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

What are your thoughts about that?



I know, I know... I'm expecting the majority to disagree. What I'm expecting to hear is "why would you put him there? It'd be a waste of his talents. blah blah blah." Just like the people who said Glenn Dorsey would be a waste as a 3-4 DE...yet looked terrible as a DT, but has turned it on with KC's switch to the 3-4. Heck, he's doing better than Tyson Jackson who was drafted to be a 3-4 DE. Anyways, without getting off topic... Do you think teams would look at him as a NT? He's a biscuit away from having the prototype weight.

As a Dallas fan, I would draft him to play NT... if it didn't work, then DE. But is that crazy or brilliant?

they were using dorsey all wrong as a rookie...making him act like an 43 NT like he was john henderson or something, he was clearly a UT.

he would still be much better as a UT even though he tightened up his game enough to play end.

i think dareus is definitely a 34 end, i wouldnt even want him inside in a 43, he looks the part but he plays like an end, not an inside guy

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

They also have a pretty good NT already playing the position. Most teams don't have that luxury.

Last I checked, so do the Cowboys.

And so do the Browns, so if we drafted him, it'd be for an end.

And... so do the Tide.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Is Dareus a top 10 pick??

I think he's very much in the conversation.

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I think he's very much in the conversation.

He better test well, because it's not showing up on the field right now

[BeerBaron]

If you're speaking about Dallas' scheme like it is/was under Phillips, then possibly. But you already have Ratliff who's been great in that role.

If you're looking to keep the 3-4, you'll probably have to get a more typical NT. A heavy, squatty kind of guy like a Wilfork or Hampton. Phillips scheme is the only 3-4 I know of that uses the NT in a more attacking role like he had Ratliff doing. Most others need that clogging, blocker-absorbing whale in the middle.

And if you're lucky like the Ravens, you can get a couple of those and one will be freakishly athletic to also play end. But a look around the league tells me he is definitely more of an exception than the rule.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

If you're speaking about Dallas' scheme like it is/was under Phillips, then possibly. But you already have Ratliff who's been great in that role.

If you're looking to keep the 3-4, you'll probably have to get a more typical NT. A heavy, squatty kind of guy like a Wilfork or Hampton. Phillips scheme is the only 3-4 I know of that uses the NT in a more attacking role like he had Ratliff doing. Most others need that clogging, blocker-absorbing whale in the middle.

And if you're lucky like the Ravens, you can get a couple of those and one will be freakishly athletic to also play end. But a look around the league tells me he is definitely more of an exception than the rule.

Ratliff is terribly overrated. He's playing out of position. He gets his glory off of sacks and TFLs, but gets overpowered against the run. Nor does he demand a double team consistently like NTs are supposed to. Now that Wade is gone, I feel like Ratliff will suffer unless he moves to DE. So a guy like Dareus intrigues me because I think he could be tried at NT ...and if not, could easily move to DE. The DE part of it, does not worry me at all. But if he can play NT, that is very intriguing. Just want to know if that is a crazy thought.

Then again.. I don't know if I'll get than answer here. Nobody here would've said Ricky Jean Francios had the makings of a good 3-4 NT, yet San Fran is doing it and the results have been positive.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Ratliff is terribly overrated. He's playing out of position. He gets his glory off of sacks and TFLs, but gets overpowered against the run. Nor does he demand a double team consistently like NTs are supposed to. Now that Wade is gone, I feel like Ratliff will suffer unless he moves to DE. So a guy like Dareus intrigues me because I think he could be tried at NT ...and if not, could easily move to DE. The DE part of it, does not worry me at all. But if he can play NT, that is very intriguing. Just want to know if that is a crazy thought.

Then again.. I don't know if I'll get than answer here. Nobody here would've said Ricky Jean Francios had the makings of a good 3-4 NT, yet San Fran is doing it and the results have been positive.

Well, the point I was trying to get at with Ratliff was that outside of Phillips' scheme, he's going to struggle at NT. If this staff strings some wins together and keeps the jobs into next year, it could stay the same and then Ratliff could stay or you could draft another smaller DT to play NT while kicking Ratliff to end.

But I think a scheme change will come with the next coaching staff and you'll probably need a more prototypical NT like Jurrell Powe if you get him in the 2nd round or someone like Phil Taylor or Kendrick Ellis later.

[ElectricEye]

Don't think a 3-4 team looking for a NT would touch him. He's just not that type of game. Daerus' strength is setting the edge against the run. Playing him inside would not work out very well unless it was a Wade Phillips type scheme and even then, I just don't think he can do it.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Is Dareus a top 10 pick??

Borderline. I would play him as a 3-4 DE then move him inside when going to 4 down to rush the passer.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

If you're speaking about Dallas' scheme like it is/was under Phillips, then possibly. But you already have Ratliff who's been great in that role.If you're looking to keep the 3-4, you'll probably have to get a more typical NT. A heavy, squatty kind of guy like a Wilfork or Hampton. Phillips scheme is the only 3-4 I know of that uses the NT in a more attacking role like he had Ratliff doing. Most others need that clogging, blocker-absorbing whale in the middle.

And if you're lucky like the Ravens, you can get a couple of those and one will be freakishly athletic to also play end. But a look around the league tells me he is definitely more of an exception than the rule.

I was thinking the same thing, Ratliff is a very quick, agile NT. If Dareus would work anywhere as a 3-4 NT, it'd be under the same type of defense that is being run in Dallas. Honestly, though, Dareus' best fit is as a 3-4 End, and unless you needed him inside, I'd keep him as an End.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Don't think a 3-4 team looking for a NT would touch him. He's just not that type of game. Daerus' strength is setting the edge against the run. Playing him inside would not work out very well unless it was a Wade Phillips type scheme and even then, I just don't think he can do it.

When you say, that's just not his type of game that's a pretty generic statement. Where exactly does he fall short? At either position he would see double teams. Something he already sees a lot of at Alabama.

[ChiFan24]

I really don't see how he's a 3-4 anything in the NFL, ideally. Just look at the guy; that's not a 3-4 end's body type. I think he could do it, but I'd much rather use him in a 4-3 as a UT where he can get into the backfield and make plays, which is what he does best.

I think as a NT he'd be comparable to Ratliff; an undersized penetrating type. He does have a pretty good, stout build and he's probably strong enough to handle it, but based on the way he plays, I'm don't think I like the fit.

I will say that I'm glad a Dallas fan agrees with me that Ratliff isn't worth the hype he gets.

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

When you say, that's just not his type of game that's a pretty generic statement. Where exactly does he fall short? At either position he would see double teams. Something he already sees a lot of at Alabama.

Why can't Richard Seymour play NT? Or Cullen Jenkins(Who Dareus reminds me a lot of)? He plays the game a different way than a Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork type. He probably could do it, but it just wouldn't be a good use of his skills and there would be times when he would likely be pushed around a bit due to lack of strength. It's hard to see him being a factor occupying the center and a guard on every play. He could probably do it, but that's not the best use of his length and short burst, which is his best quality. Just can't see it happening.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

When you say, that's just not his type of game that's a pretty generic statement. Where exactly does he fall short? At either position he would see double teams. Something he already sees a lot of at Alabama.

But he sees different types of double teams playing at an end spot than inside. Inside, he has (usually) two larger, stronger, shorter guys (Guards and the Center), making it harder to overpower, outleverage, or work through them. Outside, he is working against a guard and tackle, or tackle and TE/RB chipping/WR cracking, and because these players are usually smaller, weaker, taller (the tackles), or not proficient blockers (a lot of TEs, RBs, or WRs), which is much easier for someone with his skill set to beat. With his blend of quickness and power, it is easier for him to overpower or outleverage the tackle/skill position player combo, as well as the Guard/Tackle combo. Dareus just doesn't have the brute strength to just overpower most NFL interior O-linemen tandems, but outside, he has enough strength to work through those double teams and the quickness to cut through. Again, not saying he can't succeed inside in the NFL, but his skill set makes it much more likely for him so succeed at an end spot.

[oldman9er]

As others have correctly pointed out, it's all about scheme. If a 1-gap 3-4 system wanted that penetrating NT to hit ether A-gap, then I see no reason not to give Dareus a hard look. Teams may be hesitant to fully rely on him being the right fit. If the Niners can effectively utilize 308 lb Aubrayo Franklin in this role described, then why not Dareus? Worst case scenario is he doesn't fit best there, so you slide him out to DE. But Dareus anchors well, has good, quick hands to disengage, and has the leverage needed for such a role.

[DeepThreat]

In the Phillips 3-4, I can see it. Any other scheme, no. Dareus isn't as good of a penetrater as people make him out to be. He's stout at the point of attack, and I really think his best fit is in a 2 gap 3-4 at DE. He can get into the backfield, but it's not his best attribute.

[wonderbredd24]

Originally Posted by DeepThreat

In the Phillips 3-4, I can see it. Any other scheme, no. Dareus isn't as good of a penetrater as people make him out to be. He's stout at the point of attack, and I really think his best fit is in a 2 gap 3-4 at DE. He can get into the backfield, but it's not his best attribute.

I think you're mixing up terms here... Nick Fairley would be a penetrator. I assume you're questioning Dareus' ability to collapse the pocket.

[keylime_5]

He reminds me a lot of Marcus Spears, and I was never a big Marcus Spears fan. However I think Dareus can be a stud penetrating defensive tackle in the league. I would use him as a 2 gap end or a 4-3 tackle, not a nose. I don't think he can play nose except out of necessity due to injuries or a defensive coordinator trying to throw cute stuff out there.

[D-Unit]

How many people actually believe he's a few pounds over 300? To me he looks like he's easily over 315.

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

How many people actually believe he's a few pounds over 300? To me he looks like he's easily over 315.

That's complete speculation, but even if it were true, doesn't make him a NT prospect.That would still be undersized for the position anyway and then we're talking about bulking up a guy who already looks like he isn't conditioned particularly well and might be maxed out frame wise at 6'3 305. He just does not have the right size or skillset for it. Think your using quite a bit of wishful thinking here. He's just not a NT as far as things stand right now. Won't rule it out completely because you never know, but I can't see one team in the league looking at him as a NT in a two gap 3-4.

[scpanther22]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

How many people actually believe he's a few pounds over 300? To me he looks like he's easily over 315.

This is true..No way he is only 300 pounds

I think he could play in a 4-3