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Old 11-21-2010, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Come to Oakland. We'll treat you like the deserved star player that you are. :D
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
I get the feeling that Fisher was never on board the "draft Vince Young" train. Honestly if your coach can't get behind the QB you want to build your franchise around you should just fire him right there. No one will deny that Young has his issues but he's been effective the last couple years when he's played. Perfect? No, but better than a nearly retired Kerry Collins or some random rookie.

Maybe he isn't good enough or mature enough to be the franchise QB you want, but Fisher has done nothing to help foster a relationship that will allow him to develop and become that guy either
I thought it was public record that Fisher and Norm Chow wanted Lineart and that the owner wanted Young.
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
I thought it was public record that Fisher and Norm Chow wanted Lineart and that the owner wanted Young.
Yup, that was the case. Chow wanted Leinart bad. Fisher also preferred Cutler if my memory serves correctly. He was never on the Vince Young train until after the draft when he feigned excitement.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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Best I remember it was....

- Bud was in VY's corner.
- Fisher and Reese were on the Jay train.
- Chow wanted Leinart.

I even remember Leinart was wearing the Titan blue tie on draft day.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
I get the feeling that Fisher was never on board the "draft Vince Young" train. Honestly if your coach can't get behind the QB you want to build your franchise around you should just fire him right there. No one will deny that Young has his issues but he's been effective the last couple years when he's played. Perfect? No, but better than a nearly retired Kerry Collins or some random rookie.

Maybe he isn't good enough or mature enough to be the franchise QB you want, but Fisher has done nothing to help foster a relationship that will allow him to develop and become that guy either
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

Pretty much nailed it. And yes, Babylon in right, VY was Bud Adams's pick. VY and Chow wanted Leinart more. Fish also liked Cutler, and Shanahan actually called Fish on draft day to ask him his thoughts on Cutler, and apparently Fish gave a glowing review on him. I'm not sure if he liked Cutler more than VY, but I'm nearly positive Leinart was Fish's choice.

But guess who was right? Bud Adams. He may be a few years from senility and has an affination for flipping the bird, but he was right on VY over Leinart. VY has shown he can start in this league, and has had a stellar year thus far. Leinart is the 3rd QB in Houston. So why the relationship with Fisher is so forced is beyond my comprehension. VY has certainly made mistakes, but you would think as a "player's coach" that Fish would look beyond that and do what's best for the team which is supporting VY as the starting QB, especially since his transformation he made by sitting out in '08 and after McNair's death.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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Deion Sanders is saying hes got information that VY will be released as early as tomorrow.

Countdown to Minnesota? First I thought Carolina but Minni is juicier.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Deion Sanders is saying hes got information that VY will be released as early as tomorrow.

Countdown to Minnesota? First I thought Carolina but Minni is juicier.
Teams like Carolina and Buffalo would come first on waivers and while it's probably unlikely Buffalo would take him, Carolina would have to (you'd think.)
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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VY won't be able to pass a physical with his finger hurt.

But VY would be perfect in Minny. I know that some fans don't want that, but he's better than anyone they have and their WR's fit his throwing perfectly.

I'm hesitant on saying he'll be cut, though. Bud Adams may not be for that.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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Vince Young has become a joke. I thought he was going to be successful in the NFL. ...and he has been to a degree. But he hasn't taken his game to another level, nor do I think he can... not with his arm, at least. Take away his legs and he's a below average NFL QB. Regardless, he was still supposed to be a high character guy. Seems like since McNair passed away, his character has really taken a hit by incidents with the law, hard core clubbing... and now this? His character and leadership is shot. He'll need a new environment in order to get back on track... if that's even possible.

Funny... I thought Houston made the mistake for not taking him #1 overall. I wonder how that would've turned out. ...and I thought Tennessee should've taken Leinart... I wonder how that would've turned out too. Maybe Norm Chow is still the OC there and Leinart is a very good QB in the league??? Ah the what ifs....
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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Take away his legs and he's a below average NFL QB.
That's not true whatsoever.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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So 6 games left, 5 inside the division and we are going to cut the QB who gives us the best chance to win? Yikes...

Damn you Kenny Britt's hamstring...you getting injured was the worst thing that could happen to this team!
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Deion said that Vince was mad because he couldn't go back into the game. That everytime Kerry Collins plays bad, they never ask Vince to go into the game(they stick with Kerry) and when Kerry Collins gets hurt, they check to see if he can come back. I guess Vince got fed up Jeff Fisher, don't blame him (to mad the media will).

Something along those line I forgot exactly what Deion said
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:06 AM    (permalink
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That's not true whatsoever.
I have a hard time putting him in my Top 16 of all QBs WITH his legs... take the legs away.... he ain't gonna sniff the Top 20.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:42 AM    (permalink
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I have a hard time putting him in my Top 16 of all QBs WITH his legs... take the legs away.... he ain't gonna sniff the Top 20.
id would make him shorter than brees
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:35 AM    (permalink
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I have a hard time putting him in my Top 16 of all QBs WITH his legs... take the legs away.... he ain't gonna sniff the Top 20.


D, I can't tell if this is a time where you're just trying to say something to be provacotive, or if you're saying this because you genuinely don't know enough about VY's play over the past 21 games to make an accurate statement...

I'm thinking it's the latter, because you point out VY's legs making him almost Top 16 worthy when his running really isn't that big a part of his game anymore. He's rushed 25 times this season, none of which have been TD runs, and are only 5 YPC. He has the ability, sure, but that's not what's giving him success.

I just don't see how you can objectively make that statement, D. How do you rationalize him being Top 5 in QB rating, Top 5 in Y/A, and having a 10/3 TD/INT ratio? His completion percentage leaves something to be desired, but his Y/A shows he throwing downfield rather than dumping it off for high percentage passing. He has the statistics. If it's not the stats that matter, then how do you rationalize the winning percentage? Or QB'ing a Top 5 scoring offense?

Even if the facts aren't good enough, anyone who has watched VY notices the improvements he's made. His footwork is leaps and bounds better, he's not turning the ball over, and he's developed one of the best deep balls in the league. He's become a very good QB. Is he all the way there yet? Obviously not. But I think that only shows how high his ceiling is. Now if only the offense was more passer friendly and not run-heavy so he could be the focal point of the offense, as he's shown he's been able to do since the offense became a more balanced attack, which started in the Dallas game, actually.

Now, I don't like rankings, especially over the QB position. I think it's ok to debate the top few guys, like Manning v. Brady, or which young QB's you like more, such as the Young Guns thread. But creating a 1-20 list is just a time waster. I think it's more accurate to separate them by tiers, which would be the super elite guys, then the franchise QB's, the journey man starters, and then backups.

VY has evolved into a franchise QB (on the field), and for all the knocks he's getting for his work ethic and effort, how, logically speaking, did he improve so drastically with a poor work ethic and effort? By putting out minimal effort? Doesn't make sense, so he had to have put in the work to improve. Below average? Right, nothing says mediocrity like a 98.6 QB rating and winning games. Please, if he was below average, then he'd still be on the bench (actually, he'd be cut since he would've never stayed on the field in '09 if he was a below average player).

But why should I expect people to think logically or make opinions based off of demonstrable and empirical evidence? And such is why I have to tell the other Titans fans to not pay attention to the outsider opinion. Everyone else is just perpetuating a false opinion or stereotype.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:53 AM    (permalink
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Pretty much nailed it. And yes, Babylon in right, VY was Bud Adams's pick. VY and Chow wanted Leinart more. Fish also liked Cutler, and Shanahan actually called Fish on draft day to ask him his thoughts on Cutler, and apparently Fish gave a glowing review on him. I'm not sure if he liked Cutler more than VY, but I'm nearly positive Leinart was Fish's choice.

But guess who was right? Bud Adams. He may be a few years from senility and has an affination for flipping the bird, but he was right on VY over Leinart. VY has shown he can start in this league, and has had a stellar year thus far. Leinart is the 3rd QB in Houston. So why the relationship with Fisher is so forced is beyond my comprehension. VY has certainly made mistakes, but you would think as a "player's coach" that Fish would look beyond that and do what's best for the team which is supporting VY as the starting QB, especially since his transformation he made by sitting out in '08 and after McNair's death.
Albert hinted towards this when he left - if you get on the bad side of Fisher, you are there for good. Full stop. The *only* reason Vince has hung around is because of Bud. And this ******** relationship between HC and QB results.

And yeah, some people are stuck in the old arguments against Vince. He isn't really a running QB at all anymore. He is a passer who very occasionally gets a small first down on the ground but mostly looks downfield, on an offense aimed at running the ball. This is all a big disappointment because Vince has proven he can be an effective NFL QB with a poor relationship with his coaching staff - imagine if he had his Mac Brown equivalent. A guy who is fully invested into him as the starting QB. Michael Griffin hinted at egos getting in the way and I think that's probably the case here - as pointed out, you don't come back from Fisher's dog house, it is a tomb which Vince Young has been haunting in limbo.

So Griffin better watch out or he'll be on the bench soon. Unless he can find his way to Fisher's good side, in which case he'll be starting well past his prime. That's how Fisher works.

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Old 11-22-2010, 07:33 AM    (permalink
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That's not true whatsoever.
Even if it was, it makes no sense. If you take away one of a guy's strengths, of course he's going to be worse. Guys, I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

Take away Peyton's brain and he's only average as a QB.

That statement makes as much sense as the VY minus legs one.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Young said he knows he made mistakes dealing with the situation Sunday and didn't react the way he should have. But he said his frustration of not playing and not having Fisher's faith had built up to the point in which he didn't know how to handle it. He now knows he did not handle matters the right way.

"It was just an awkward situation," Young said. "I just want to play football. I want to win games. I want to go to the Super Bowl. That's it."

Young, who tore the flexor tendon in his right thumb late in the third quarter and was replaced by rookie Rusty Smith, left for the locker room after being hurt but returned to the sideline and had the thumb taped and re-taped in an effort to return. He even tried a glove, but Fisher stuck with Smith.
What made it even more frustrating, Young said, was that the Titans opted to go with quarterback Kerry Collins in Week 10 against the Miami Dolphins when Young felt like he was physically ready to start.

Young also has had to endure a season in which he has had to battle through various ailments, from a sprained ankle he suffered during a Monday night win over Jacksonville to the thumb injury he incurred Sunday that led to an MRI on Monday morning.

Meanwhile, Young denied throwing his jersey in the stands, as was widely reported. He said he was simply giving it to the daughter of longtime Titans executive vice president Don MacLachlan.

"She's been very supportive of me and I wanted to give it to her as a sign of thanks because she knows what I'm going through," Young said.

Young also denied throwing "half his uniform" in the stands, as Fisher said his quarterback did after the game. "I throw my shoes into the stands after every game, my hat into the stands after every game, my wristbands into the stands after every game," Young said. "If it's a problem, I'll pay for my jersey."

When the team gathered in the locker room following the loss, Young began muttering and cursing under his breath as Fisher addressed the team, the Tennessean reported Sunday night.

After Fisher asked Young to be quiet, the paper said, the quarterback finished dressing and prepared to leave the room. Fisher told Young to stop and not to "run out on your teammates," sources told The Tennessean. Young told Fisher, "I'm not running out on my teammates, I'm running out on you," the paper said.

Fisher admitted he and Young spoke in the locker room, but wouldn't discuss what was said.

"That is between me and him and the team," Fisher said.

Young then left the locker room and ignored media members as Titans safety and former University of Texas teammate Michael Griffin chased after him. The Tennessean reported that Griffin was seen confronting Young in the players' parking lot.

Griffin reportedly pleaded with Young, "You can't leave, you can't do this," before Young shrugged and left.

Griffin denied chasing after Young, but multiple media outlets reported witnessing the incident. Griffin did say that he hoped people can set aside their egos and personal feelings so they could stick together as a team.

Young also said that Griffin did not chase him up the tunnel. "But I was upset with the way I was being treated and I just needed to get out of there," he said.

Young said he is frustrated and bewildered at the criticism now being leveled at him.

"It is not just me. It falls back on me, but I don't know how to respond to it when it's not just me. I'm outnumbered right now," he said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...e=NFLHeadlines

Vince should of started against the Dolphins, Kerry Collins was playing like garabge in that game and Vince played ok when he came in.


Quote:
“(My sources) told me that Vince is really upset because every time he messes up, they place Kerry Collins in the game,” Sanders said. “But when Collins messes up or someone else, nothing happens, and (Young) has just gotten fed up with it. He wanted to go back into the game. He and Fisher got into a shouting match where a policeman had to break them up. This all took place in front of the GM.

“This is what the Titans plan on doing with him: putting him on injured reserve or cutting him, as soon as [Monday].” - Deion Sanders
http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/22/sand...t-vince-young/
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Young also denied throwing "half his uniform" in the stands, as Fisher said his quarterback did after the game. "I throw my shoes into the stands after every game, my hat into the stands after every game, my wristbands into the stands after every game," Young said. "If it's a problem, I'll pay for my jersey."
I don't watch the Titan's much, or pay attention to VY's post-game routine, does he really do this after every game? If so, the way Fisher put that negative spin on it, saying he "threw half his uniform into the stands," as if it's out of the ordinary is pretty low.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't watch the Titan's much, or pay attention to VY's post-game routine, does he really do this after every game? If so, the way Fisher put that negative spin on it, saying he "threw half his uniform into the stands," as if it's out of the ordinary is pretty low.
Fisher threw VY under the bus in multiple ways, yesterday.

The kicker is that Fish didn't even witness VY throwing parts of his uniform into the stands. An assistant told him, and that's what he went off of.

But yes, VY typically runs up to the fans and celebrates with them after a win, or in this case a loss where he had people there. He usually brings guests to basically the front row so he can run over to them after the game. A lot of times it's been Steve McNair's kids, who VY has basically become a big brother to. Air Mac had 2 sons, so each of them usually got a glove or something. So it doesn't surprise me at all to hear he was throwing it to someone. And VY has come out and said he never threw his pads either. So it was just him tossing the executive's daughter his jersey, and I'm guessing he then threw his gloves and wristbands out into the crowd in frustration. But when people saw him throw his gloves, etc. in frustration right after he threw his jersey, they connected the two and assumed he also threw out his jersey in a tantrum as well.

This has been blown out of proportion as much as the 1st time he bolted from the stadium angry, and the organization basically put him on suicide watch. What did he do when he left the stadium? He went to a buddy's house to watch Sunday Night Football and eat some hot wings. But with sensational media, they had to spice it up. They added that he had a gun on him. Turns out that the gun was actually in his car's glovebox and it was unloaded. The main thing that happened was that VY's mom was worried after VY had turned off his phone, and like most moms, she over-reacted and alerted Fisher and the organization that she was worried about her son. But I guarantee you that everyone in this thread, sans Titans fans and a few others that have humored me and my rants, think that VY was suicidal that night.

I'm Team VY right now, me thinks. I'm kinda glad he finally confronted Fisher.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm Team VY right now, me thinks. I'm kinda glad he finally confronted Fisher.
I don't feel like Fisher is going anywhere though.....so you can follow VY to Minny or Oakland or someplace like that and change your name to "VikingsHope" or "RaidersHope"

;)
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Ridiculous. Young has been a very good QB for Tennessee this year. He doesn't need to light it up, just hit some deep balls and convert third downs, which he's done very well this year. This seems like a case of where Jeff Fisher does not like Vince Young and only plays Vince because Vince gives them the best chance of winning. Whenever something goes wrong, he is quick to pull the trigger on Vince, for whatever reason. After leaving Rusty Smith in there, its clear that Fisher doesn't like Vince. It's very surprising (and idiotic) that a QB that has played as well as Vince has could be cut because of head coaching differences.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Fisher threw VY under the bus in multiple ways, yesterday.

The kicker is that Fish didn't even witness VY throwing parts of his uniform into the stands. An assistant told him, and that's what he went off of.

But yes, VY typically runs up to the fans and celebrates with them after a win, or in this case a loss where he had people there. He usually brings guests to basically the front row so he can run over to them after the game. A lot of times it's been Steve McNair's kids, who VY has basically become a big brother to. Air Mac had 2 sons, so each of them usually got a glove or something. So it doesn't surprise me at all to hear he was throwing it to someone. And VY has come out and said he never threw his pads either. So it was just him tossing the executive's daughter his jersey, and I'm guessing he then threw his gloves and wristbands out into the crowd in frustration. But when people saw him throw his gloves, etc. in frustration right after he threw his jersey, they connected the two and assumed he also threw out his jersey in a tantrum as well.

This has been blown out of proportion as much as the 1st time he bolted from the stadium angry, and the organization basically put him on suicide watch. What did he do when he left the stadium? He went to a buddy's house to watch Sunday Night Football and eat some hot wings. But with sensational media, they had to spice it up. They added that he had a gun on him. Turns out that the gun was actually in his car's glovebox and it was unloaded. The main thing that happened was that VY's mom was worried after VY had turned off his phone, and like most moms, she over-reacted and alerted Fisher and the organization that she was worried about her son. But I guarantee you that everyone in this thread, sans Titans fans and a few others that have humored me and my rants, think that VY was suicidal that night.

I'm Team VY right now, me thinks. I'm kinda glad he finally confronted Fisher.
Wow, didn't realize this. That's very interesting...

I appreciate the clarification.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I don't feel like Fisher is going anywhere though.....so you can follow VY to Minny or Oakland or someplace like that and change your name to "VikingsHope" or "RaidersHope"

;)
Lol, I dunno about Fisher being safe. This isn't exactly reflecting well on his leadership abilities, and with the way the team is looking with Collins and Crusty Rusty QB'ing the team, there's a good chance we finish with a losing record. If that happens, especially after Fish had alienated VY, then Fish could very well get the axe.

I will be hardcore rooting for VY when he goes to his new team, though. Still a Titans fans through-and-through, but I hope he lights the league on fire except for in the games he plays the Titans. But I've always wished ex-Titans the best.

And that is even if VY is cut or isn't re-signed. If he goes on IR and the Titans plummet, Fish could be out, VY could be in, and the next coach will have to deal
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Bud adams has said they'll have to get along with each other and that young is still our qb. Sounds like fisher might be the one to go after the season.
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