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Old 12-11-2010, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
There is zero chance that Urlacher is not on the team. He's leading in the votes and is having an incredible season.

London Fletcher....

Peppers is also leading in the voting, and will go as well.
Oh ok. I am just going by stats since I don't have the NFL ticket. I don't think brian U should make it. Peppers shouldn't even be in the discussion in my opinion.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Oh ok. I am just going by stats since I don't have the NFL ticket. I don't think brian U should make it. Peppers shouldn't even be in the discussion in my opinion.
*Shakes head*

The Bears have the best defense in the conference and you don't have a single player on the team. That's not going on stats, that's going on being a homer.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I doubt there is six Giants on the team. Hey, who knows though. The Cowboys have pulled it off before.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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*Shakes head*

The Bears have the best defense in the conference and you don't have a single player on the team. That's not going on stats, that's going on being a homer.
Let's be realistic here. Urlacher is only going to be on the Pro Bowl roster because Curtis Lofton will be turning it down to play in the Super Bowl the following week.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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*Shakes head*

The Bears have the best defense in the conference and you don't have a single player on the team. That's not going on stats, that's going on being a homer.

Of course it's going by stats. Peppers? What has he done that's rivaled the other DEs? He should not even be in the talk for pro bowl. Fletcher has had every bit as good as Brian U. It's not absurd to have him in there. He is ALWAYS been underrated in the NFL. However, saying that I am not surprised Brian U is there.

It says we have the 2nd best defense in the NFL behind the Chargers. You guys are after us.. barely.

And no, I am no homer I am going based on stats. I can back up my choices. It's not like I picked JG over Brian U. So let's no go crazy here.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I doubt there is six Giants on the team. Hey, who knows though. The Cowboys have pulled it off before.
I agree. I don't think realistically there will be. But when you have the 2nd best defense in the NFL, I would think the defense should have a bunch. I doubt offensively we will.

I can see.. Bradshaw, maybe Nicks, and Snee perhaps. The rest would come on defense alone. That's if they get picked.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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You have 6 Giants and 1 Bear, yet we have a better record than you.

As per the defense, you are 2nd in yards and 13th in points allowed. We are 3rd in yards and 3rd in points allowed. Yeah, our defense is better.

There is literally zero chance that there will be 6 Giants, especially when they very well may not even make the playoffs.

You're being a homer.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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You have 6 Giants and 1 Bear, yet we have a better record than you.

As per the defense, you are 2nd in yards and 13th in points allowed. We are 3rd in yards and 3rd in points allowed. Yeah, our defense is better.

There is literally zero chance that there will be 6 Giants, especially when they very well may not even make the playoffs.

You're being a homer.
There may be six Giants if you include O-Line. MAYBE. But if you are going by just the position we are right now, not including O-Line, there won't be six of them.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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You have 6 Giants and 1 Bear, yet we have a better record than you.

As per the defense, you are 2nd in yards and 13th in points allowed. We are 3rd in yards and 3rd in points allowed. Yeah, our defense is better.

There is literally zero chance that there will be 6 Giants, especially when they very well may not even make the playoffs.

You're being a homer.
Yeah you guys have a better record, but we beat you. We killed your QB. If we get back to full strength we would do it again.

Def. not being a homer. London Fletcher is a redskin first off. That was my initial pick and the one you included in your rebutal. Next, I said Peppers had no business in running too. Not enough tackles or Sacks. So I don't know where you're pulling this homer business from. I have spot on. Brian U making is your only point, and even then I choice the under rated guy, who has equal if not better stats.

Easy there,

Let's see how you guys do with your remaining games..


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If you guys do well, then I will tip my hat and give you props. But you can get bounced just as easily.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Peppers has no business being in the discussion? Have you watched a Bears game? The guy may not have the stats, but his presence is undeniable. He is a huge difference maker, and makes the whole defense better by just him being on the field. In my opinion, the Bears defense this year is good because of him.
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Peppers has no business being in the discussion? Have you watched a Bears game? The guy may not have the stats, but his presence is undeniable. He is a huge difference maker, and makes the whole defense better by just him being on the field. In my opinion, the Bears defense this year is good because of him.
Maybe but that doesn't diminish what the other DEs have done. And yeah, I like Peppers and I have seen him play against us. I thought he was the best player on the field, constantly getting in the backfield. I even said after, if it wasn't Bradshaw in the backfield, Jacobs would have kept getting tackled for a loss. However, the other guys have equally had great seasons. I like Peppers, but the other guys are doing the same, and still getting their numbers.

But anyways, it's been a good debate. I gotta go for a xmas party. Take care of yourself and have a great weekend buddy.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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He has the stats too. It's a silly argument. A 2 sack difference is easily negated by the fact that he's constantly double-teamed and is such a presence in the run game.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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there is really someone saying peppers shouldnt be in the the Pro bowl?
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Oh ok. I am just going by stats since I don't have the NFL ticket. I don't think brian U should make it. Peppers shouldn't even be in the discussion in my opinion.


Please, please, please go back and watch a few Bears games and then rethink you're "opinion" on the matter.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I agree. I don't think realistically there will be. But when you have the 2nd best defense in the NFL, I would think the defense should have a bunch. I doubt offensively we will.
Too bad you don't. Packers, Bears, and Saints are better than the Giants in the NFC alone.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Most of the people on this board know who 7th round draft picks are. We're not exactly a great sample.
The best RB in the NFL in the moment was a 7th round pick.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Too bad you don't. Packers, Bears, and Saints are better than the Giants in the NFC alone.
There are hidden yards and hidden points so I always hate using numbers to quantify a defense personally. It's why in football you need the test more than what the numbers say. When there are no dominant defenses it's tough to say who's actually better.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Of course it's going by stats. Peppers? What has he done that's rivaled the other DEs? He should not even be in the talk for pro bowl. Fletcher has had every bit as good as Brian U. It's not absurd to have him in there. He is ALWAYS been underrated in the NFL. However, saying that I am not surprised Brian U is there.

It says we have the 2nd best defense in the NFL behind the Chargers. You guys are after us.. barely.

And no, I am no homer I am going based on stats. I can back up my choices. It's not like I picked JG over Brian U. So let's no go crazy here.
Peppers not only deserves to be in the Pro Bowl, he deserves legitimate DPOTY consideration. What he does for that Bears defense is unreal.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Too bad you don't. Packers, Bears, and Saints are better than the Giants in the NFC alone.
Saints and Bears better than the Giants? Are you smoking crack? Packers, MAYBE.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Saints and Bears better than the Giants? Are you smoking crack? Packers, MAYBE.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...G&d-447263-n=1
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Packers and Bears, yes. Saints, arguable, but I'd put them just ahead. I'll give the Giants 4th though.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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You have 6 Giants and 1 Bear, yet we have a better record than you.

As per the defense, you are 2nd in yards and 13th in points allowed. We are 3rd in yards and 3rd in points allowed. Yeah, our defense is better.

There is literally zero chance that there will be 6 Giants, especially when they very well may not even make the playoffs.

You're being a homer.
The reason the Bears are 3rd in points allowed is pretty obvious: look to the schedule where they played such offensive juggernauts as the Lions (twice), the Panthers, the Dolphins with a third-string QB, the Redskins, the Seahawks, the Bills, and the pre-Garret Cowboys and the crappy Favre Vikings.

You can't use stats like "points allowed" to realistically project the strength of a defense against playoff teams, because often times a team's regular season schedule will inflate their perceived strength. Look at the 2005 Chicago Bears, for instance. Extremely easy schedule with few offensive powerhouses, so they end up #1 in the league in points allowed. Then they get into the playoffs, and promptly get b****-smacked by Jake Delhomme and Steve Smith to the tune of 29 points and 434 total yards.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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I also don't like the points per game stat for the Giants because we had a new D coordinator at the beginning of the year. We needed some games to adjust to Fewell's system but since about Game 3 when it really clicked we're doing much better in the PPG area.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
The reason the Bears are 3rd in points allowed is pretty obvious: look to the schedule where they played such offensive juggernauts as the Lions (twice), the Panthers, the Dolphins with a third-string QB, the Redskins, the Seahawks, the Bills, and the pre-Garret Cowboys and the crappy Favre Vikings.

You can't use stats like "points allowed" to realistically project the strength of a defense against playoff teams, because often times a team's regular season schedule will inflate their perceived strength. Look at the 2005 Chicago Bears, for instance. Extremely easy schedule with few offensive powerhouses, so they end up #1 in the league in points allowed. Then they get into the playoffs, and promptly get b****-smacked by Jake Delhomme and Steve Smith to the tune of 29 points and 434 total yards.
The Packers have also played the Lions (and do again this weekend), the Bills with Trent Edwards, Miami, the Jets, the pre-Garrett Phillips, and the crappy Vikings twice. Not exactly a slate of offensive juggernauts there, either. They also made Aaron Rodgers (god himself) look terrible.

Last edited by yourfavestoner : 12-11-2010 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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The Packers have also played the Lions (and do again this weekend), the Bills with Trent Edwards, Miami, the Jets, the pre-Garrett Phillips, and the crappy Vikings twice. Not exactly a slate of offensive juggernauts there, either.
And their ranking as a top defense based on points allowed is sketchy, also.

Remember last year, when the Packers defense was ranked in the top 5 in points allowed, and everyone was saying how good they were?

What happened in the playoffs? That same defense gave up 50 bazillion points to Kurt Warner and the Cardinals and despite an All-World performance by Aaron Rodgers, the Packers were ousted in the first round.

Points allowed per game in the regular season is pretty much a red herring when it comes to predicting how well a team will ultimately do, or how strong their defense truly is.
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