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Old 12-25-2010, 11:46 AM    (permalink
Nalej
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I'll admit I was one of those morons. Shame on me.
(To clarrify: We who thought he'd be better are now the morons)
I hope he's just one of those guys that needs to sit and watch for a year or two before starting.
but yea, I was way off as of today
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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...and some people here were comparing him to Aaron Rodgers....
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Old 12-25-2010, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I liked him in the draft, Scott definitely swayed me. I don't want to be blinded by hindsight bias so I'll just avoid saying who I liked better, but I did definitely feel both Bradford and Clausen were worthy of first round picks specifically top 15/top 20. Clausen has looked terrible, but who knows he might improve next year once he gets a better feel for the game. You never know, we could have a similar situation to Rivers and Brees if the Panthers go Luck. That's obviously best case scenario for Clausen, that or the Panthers stick with him as their guy.
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Old 12-25-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JPP90 View Post
Not big enough or strong enough, and his teammates don't respect him. Steve Smith insulting him in the media a couple weeks ago tells you all you need to know. If he had any redeeming qualities whatsoever, his teammates would have his back.
Cant really judge what his team feels about him based on what Smith says..Smith hates anyone that does not get him the ball.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Cant really judge what his team feels about him based on what Smith says..Smith hates anyone that does not get him the ball.
Smith had a couple pretty bad drops monday night also.
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
except for the small subset of this board who saw clausen for what he was, instead of drooling over a pretty, notre dame qb. but then, we were all ******* morons (to clarify, those of us who thought he was terrible were *called* morons, among other things).
Eh, i didnt drool over him because of being an ND qb. I liked him for his ball placement, timing, and ability to come through and lead the team late in the game. Not that it matters since hes suckin something else this year. Im a little worried though because going back and watching just highlights of him a bit ago, you can see he has happy feet at the slightest sign of pressure getting through. So thats not new, thats just a problem that he either needs to fix (grow some balls and take a hit) or you're all very right and he sucks.

I dont think its time to give up on him yet but i think if they can get luck they take him and trade clausen for a conditional pick in the next year or something. Carolina to me is the worst place for a qb to be developing right now because the owner is determined to cut costs and wont spend on coaches or anything to help him develop.

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Old 12-25-2010, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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except for the small subset of this board who saw clausen for what he was, instead of drooling over a pretty, notre dame qb. but then, we were all ******* morons (to clarify, those of us who thought he was terrible were *called* morons, among other things).
To be fair, what he did at Notre Dame (as a QB), he seemingly can't do in the NFL. You don't typically expect that from a pro-style offense trained QB.
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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i always thought he liked jimmy.

and i mean that as a double entendre.
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Total bust or not, you know if the guy didnt come from Norte Dame, we would not being talking about him as much. I dont remember this forum talking so much about John Beck, Pat White or Brian Brohm. All QBs taken in the 2nd round and turned out to be busts.

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Old 12-25-2010, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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just look at what the weis/patriot system has done for matt cassell this year. hell, throw kyle orton in there too with mcdaniels

if you watch notre dame highlights it's very difficult to see the problems unless youre looking for them. i went back and watched a couple full games and some highlights after the panthers drafted him and had trouble finding issue with him. the only thing that was really noticeable was the odd way he throws his deep ball

I've really only found one guy who basically called Clausen for what he is before the draft while explaining his flaws out perfectly without drawing the majority of his argument from the "intangible" knock (which I cant in good faith deny either, for what it's worth). Dude's name is Rob Staton. Not sure if I can link his website with the rules here tho

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Old 12-25-2010, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Total bust or not, you know if the guy didnt come from Norte Dame, we would not being talking about him as much. I dont remember this forum talking so much about John Beck, Pat White or Brian Brohm. All QBs taken in the 2nd round and turned out to be busts.
Well Beck, White and Brohm wasn't a possible 1/1 pick. Before the draft half of the guys wanted the Rams to pick Clausen as their signal caller, so that's why there's so much talking.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
except for the small subset of this board who saw clausen for what he was, instead of drooling over a pretty, notre dame qb. but then, we were all ******* morons (to clarify, those of us who thought he was terrible were *called* morons, among other things).
According to this board, Matt Leinart and Jimmy Clausen should have been inducted into the HOF before even being drafted.

Pro style offense FTW!!!!11
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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BOE was 100% right on Clausen
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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BOE was 100% right on Clausen
Several of us were. But as njx mentioned, we were called out repeatedly. I actually had him as a late first rounder, I thought the Vikings would snag him.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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float poor passes to receivers who were head and shoulders more athletic than the navy dbs? that's true. make his weak arm look less ****** than it really was? he hasn't been able to do that against real competition.

the case for clausen is, was and always will be overblown. he was a mediocre qb, but because he played for ND and weis, everyone figured he'd be the gratest qb ever. and i only wish that were hyperbole.
What about the great passes over CBs from Stanford, and Michigan St from last year? Or does that not qualify?

That's part of the plan....use the tall and athletic Michael Floyd and Kyle Rudolph to your advantage. Likewise with Golden Tate who is a very talented WR in the air. Weis draws that up and its up to execution for Jimmy.

Its more than just him being with the Irish......its because after I saw most if not all of his 3 year career games, I came away with a very poised and impressive QB....so much that I gave him the Poor Man's Phil Rivers title. And that could very well come intuition if given the proper time and management by a team....though judging by some Panthers fans great patience, that probably will not happen.

Rivers sat for what 2 seasons and then suddenly got the program(Not where he is today obviously) when given the reigns and learning from an actual QB mentor in Brees....as opposed to learning from Matt Moore who's done absolutely nothing in the league or St Pierre who just came from being a stay home dad and knows even less of the offense than the rookies(Clausen and Pike).

Seriously guys look at Clausen's 1st year in ND.....it is the same situation as it is now. Poor O-Line, near dead last running attack(Though the Panthers RB attack finally showed up down this stretch), and a defense that left little room for error. Like I said before, most rookie QBs will flourish when put in the good situations and will falter when put in poor situations. Clausen probably won't be a game breaker until maybe year 3 unless he develops the Patrick Ramsey/David Carr syndrome by that enough hits and poor mismanagement becomes permanent and where Clausen's confidence takes a steady toll.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Every person in the media loved Clausen as a prospect. No one expected him to leave the top 15. His season was very good and he played thorugh injury to get his 28 touchdowns. The intangibles is what took Clausenen down. Im sure his interviews didn't go to well and his intangibles were questioned.

In fact I see a lot similarity's between Clausen and Luck. They both have just average arm strength and do seem to check down a lot with short passes allowing there receivers to gain the bulk of the yardage.

As a Bills fan I know the most important trait in a quarterback needed for the AFC east is arm strength. I just don't see the upside in having a Mark Sanchez 2.0 on the Bills with Luck.

That is why to me drafting Newton or Locker to groom under Fitzpatrick is the best scenario for the Bills in this draft.
Why exactly is that a bad thing now???
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:33 AM    (permalink
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That really is a bad football team he's playing on. It's not like he gets any help, even when he does play decent.

Does anyone think that the lame duck coaching staff in Carolina has anything to do with how poorly he's developing? I mean, is it possible that they all knew they were out at the end of this season anyway and just aren't dedicated to bringing Clausen along? There is no steady veteran quarterback mentor there for him to learn from.

Eli Manning's first 9 games of his career look awful similar to Clausen's, except even Manning had Kurt Warner.

As for Sam Bradford, I think the kid is great, but let's not put him in the HOF just yet. Anyone remember Rick Mirer's rookie season? He was awesome...even won ROY Award I believe, but crashed after that.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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Clausen has always had bad pocket presence and gets too skittish under pressure. He does have arm talent, anyone who says differently shouldn't be taken seriously. But he flat out looks like a deer in the headlights any time a blitz comes. Obviously that needs to change for him to have any remote success.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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Why exactly is that a bad thing now???
I think Luck is a great prospect, it's just I dont think the Buffalo weather is the best place for him to succeed. Sanchez is having terrible games in adverse conditions which is not what I want for Luck. The weather is worse in Buffalo than in the new meadowlands and I don't think Luck will be able to throw deep in December.

I still think the perfect place for Luck to end up is in San Francisco.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Seriously guys look at Clausen's 1st year in ND.....it is the same situation as it is now. Poor O-Line, near dead last running attack(Though the Panthers RB attack finally showed up down this stretch), and a defense that left little room for error. Like I said before, most rookie QBs will flourish when put in the good situations and will falter when put in poor situations. Clausen probably won't be a game breaker until maybe year 3 unless he develops the Patrick Ramsey/David Carr syndrome by that enough hits and poor mismanagement becomes permanent and where Clausen's confidence takes a steady toll.
Look im still on the clausen bandwagon, but these last couple weeks his team has looked better. Not the WRs they still look like crap, but the line has looked a little better, the run game has been doing well, and the defense held pitt to 3 until halfway through the second quarter (granted theyve been underperforming on O lately but youd think theyd tear a bad D apart). Clausen was facing the best D in league possibly, but it was w/o troy which makes them much more average and didnt do anything against them. But it is lebeau so i wasnt really expecting clausen to have the edge in that matchup. As ive said, i think he can be good but the situation sure doesnt look like its helping. No weapons, cheap owner, zombie coach, shakey everything else.

Yeah, njx and the rest are jumping to say hes a bust and they were right awful quick, but they have a point in that he hasnt really shown any signs of life. The one thing I still see from him is he doesnt look like hes too shaken from this. But also has some bad happy feet and if pressure gets through he basically eyes the rush and turtles and doesnt slide around (was an issue back in college too).
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I find Jim to make him sound like he lives in a trailer and fixes automobiles. James Clausen is far more stately.

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Old 12-26-2010, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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You guys are largely looking at this wrong, the offensive line and the running backs and the receivers have not been the issue.

With a competent QB Carolina is probably around about an 8-8 team. They've had a lot of injuries on the defensive side of the ball that cannot be understated and there have been knocks along the offensive line, but a year ago as anemic as the passing offense was there were two 1100 yard rushers on the team and had he stayed healthy it's likely Smith would've got over 1,000 yards.

This year there's been none of the same production a lot of teams had 9 guys stacked down in the box at various stages and Clausen still couldn't capitalise.

He doesn't make his reads well, he panics when he drops back, if he handles the snap correctly, and wings passes with poor mechanics inaccurately somewhere in the vicinity of his receivers.

His two touchdown passes, just two, despite all his starts came on broken coverage to Stewart who made some nice moves to score and to King, in both situations they were wide, wide, wide open and he still threw the pass behind King (despite not being pressured).

Sure Clausen was meant to sit for a couple of years, at least one and learn the trade, but he was touted coming out as being the most NFL ready QB and he's shown nothing for me to think that he'll be any good.

The receivers aren't great fair enough, but Steve Smith is still Steve Smith and both Gettis and LaFell have shown enough for me to think they have bright futures and the tight ends despite any scoffing this post might receive are solid receivers, as are all of the running backs.

The weapons such as they are, are there, Clausen is not an NFL calibre QB at the moment. Sure maybe eventually he will be and his defenders might not agree with Carolina drafting someone like Andrew Luck, but I see Clausen after seeing his play this year as having a ceiling of someone like Rex Grossman but without the powerful arm and Luck as a once in a decade prospect.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure Jimmy just hasn't gotten a fair chance yet.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I'm pretty sure Jimmy just hasn't gotten a fair chance yet.
I'm pretty sure you could bring in the best QB coaches and train him in a pro system for years and he'd be ok.

Oh wait!
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Come on. Everyone knows that Notre Dame quarterbacks need at least five years worth of starts before you can fairly judge them.
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