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Old 12-25-2010, 05:34 PM    (permalink
superman8456
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
Greatest comeback ever? get the hell out of here. Yea, he stopped brutally murdering animals, went to jail, and then came back to the NFL. he came back from his own stupidty? Not disrupting the natural order? This is just stupid.
I don't believe people think it might be the greatest comeback ever because "he cam back from his own stupidity". I believe it is the fact that for 18 months, he only got one hour of exercise per day and lived on a diet that isn't very beneficial for athletes. Despite those two factors, he came back to the NFL and played at a level that is higher to his previous playing days. Michael Vick isn't just playing well, he is absolutely dominating. He is the sole reason the Eagles are even competitive this season.

Edit: But then again, I also believe he faced the greatest adversity, so I'm biased. I also believe that it is a little awkward because he technically played last year, so he's not really coming back this season.

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Old 12-25-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I think what it comes down to is whether or not a person believes he really has become a changed man and he feels bad for what he has done or that he is just playing along with it and hasn't changed at all. I certainly hope hes honest when he says he understands whathe did was wrong and he wishes he could take it back, but no one can know for certain. Thus far he's done what he's needed to do to prove he's changed but like I said who can say? What it's come down to here is whether people believe what he did was unforgivable, or that he really is sorry for what he's done, realizes he made a mistake and is trying to get back to the top. If were talking about CPOTY then no one has missed as much time as he has and then come back to this elite of a level, regardless of what he's done.
Personally, I do believe he has changed. But regardless of said changes, it can't alter the past. He is still accountable for his mistakes and as such I find it difficult to give him an award which is meant to be inspiring and not solely based on statistics (as the past as indicated), but rather based on coming back from something out of your control, like an injury.

There's no doubt him coming back and playing at this high of a level is amazing, but I really don't feel like that's the point of the award. If you want to give him the MVP, I'm fine with that, because it has to do with being the Most Valuable Player - which he easily may be.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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he also had a whole freaking year of doing nothing but working out, practicing, and holding clipboards last year. He didn't walk straight from a jail cell to the starting QB job and putting up the asburd numbers he is now.
And yea, he only got an hour a day. But it's not like he sat in prison pounding down brewskies and cupcakes. He was still in shape. Granted not football shape, but still excellent shape due to conditioning and shape prior to prison. That year of doing nothing BUT getting in football shape balances that out pretty well.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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he also had a whole freaking year of doing nothing but working out, practicing, and holding clipboards last year. He didn't walk straight from a jail cell to the starting QB job and putting up the asburd numbers he is now.
And yea, he only got an hour a day. But it's not like he sat in prison pounding down brewskies and cupcakes. He was still in shape. Granted not football shape, but still excellent shape due to conditioning and shape prior to prison. That year of doing nothing BUT getting in football shape balances that out pretty well.
If this happened to 10 guys I bet only 1 would have the success Vick is having. I dont think people understand just how tough this comeback would be. This guy went 2 years in prison in which he may have been able to work out an hour a day, but I doubt he got to throw the pigskin around everyday, he didnt get to run routes, he didnt get to run sprints....these are all things that over a period of time go away.

Last year he was a formation specialist, he didnt get much playing time, so i dont see how last year really helped him to get into his success now....being a wildcat QB and playing everyday is much much different. He got to practice all the time, but practice speed and game speed is nowhere near the same. There is no comparison.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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it's not like he was a freaking rookie. He played, and started and was a moderately successful starting NFL QB. I said his stint last year helped him get in shape at practice and learn the playbook. it's not like he was thrust straight from jail to the field. he was able to get these things back with a full year of NFL practice...
but hey, David Robinson had to take 2 years off for military service and then became a HOF Center.
I'm just saying, is what he's doing amazing, especially considering his numbers and UNREAL play this year? yes. but it is FAR away from being the greatest comeback of all time
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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If this happened to 10 guys I bet only 1 would have the success Vick is having. I dont think people understand just how tough this comeback would be. This guy went 2 years in prison in which he may have been able to work out an hour a day, but I doubt he got to throw the pigskin around everyday, he didnt get to run routes, he didnt get to run sprints....these are all things that over a period of time go away.

Last year he was a formation specialist, he didnt get much playing time, so i dont see how last year really helped him to get into his success now....being a wildcat QB and playing everyday is much much different. He got to practice all the time, but practice speed and game speed is nowhere near the same. There is no comparison.
Did you watch him last year? He looked really slow. He got a year plus of being able to get in shape, learn the playbook, improve his work ethic. Plus OTAs, minicamps, training camp, preseason, etc.

I don't think what he's done is anymore impressive than a guy coming off a knee injury. In fact, it's probably easier because knee injuries can hinder your ability to preform and train at a high level, where as Vick was just out of shape and missed some time playing.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Reminiscent of the Atlanta days. I do miss the hell out of Michael Vick, but I certainly have grown weary of the constant argument involved with him.


Who gives a **** if it's the greatest comeback story ever or not? The guy went from someone who carried a team (and quite frankly, a city) on pure athletic ability, to having everything taken away. And now he came back and has become one of the best players in the NFL by redirecting everything about himself. Call it whatever you want, but it's ******* amazing.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm very impressed with everything Vick has done and his comeback. I never thought he stood a chance at finding success in the league after his jail time. The season he is having is nothing short of shocking to me. He has made himself one of the most talented players in the league, not simply getting by on physical tools alone.

That said, I'm hesistant to give him too much credit because the only reason he missed any time is because of his own criminal actions. Great season and all, but I'd much rather give the title greatest comeback every a player that didn't cause their own demise in the first place. I think it should certianly go to someone that overcame an obstacle that they didn't put in front of themselves.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Now before I start this yes obviously I am an Eagles fan and can take what I say with a grain of salt. Also I do own 3 dogs and am also a Humane society volunteer and active in AKC events.

Now what Vick has done this season is amazing. He has turned his life around but putting this up with Armstrong, Mario Lemieux, and others that have faced down death or life threatening injuries is laughable.

Now as of CBPOTY yes I do believe he deserves it. He went from basically if you look in ATL one of the best players in the league to a season of holding a clipboard to probably runner up in the MVP race. 2 years in prison or not in between anyone that has done that been demoted to a gimmick/3rd string to where he is now is a comeback. Any other QB hands down going from starter to third string to starter at Vicks current level again would get the nod hands down.

Now as of the dog thing yes it makes me sick to think it but it is sadly all to common everywhere. This is not a race issue either but a society as a whole issue. People starve their pets, neglect them, abuse them, beat them, run puppy mills, among other things. Its a sad fact of life but not everyone holds animal life in the same regard. Now what Vick did is brutal, I mean worst of the worst but so have alot of people. Look it up compassion for animals is more of a learned behavior, It is not natural or genetic.

Hell even our species at one time would of pitted humans against humans in mortal combat during ancient times. Compassion for animals has evolved but yet still as a society we find dragging a fish in by a metal hook to the mouth is ok. (( and before you get on me I do love to fish and continue to do so))Do that to a dog drag it around by a hook is cruel. We have as a society placed certain standards on what animals we can be cruel to and what we can't. Not everyone has the same standards either.

I am not going to sit here and scream at Vick for what he did. It was wrong but I am not going to crucify him for it. My first response when he was signed was oh my god why my team. But he is making a honest effort to change his life, now do i think he totally loves dogs, probably not but I don't know. I do know this being around the Humane society and he gets to see the sadness of some of the things but also he gets to see acts of compassion and only Vick knows how that effects him.

The best way to combat animal abuse is through awareness not radical measures like making hate shirts of Vick like a certain group likes to do. The NFL is full of drug abuse, wife beaters, cheaters, and gods knows what else. If we all knew everything that goes on convicted or not we would be sick. And what happened with Vick's birthday party and shooting if you would of not just heard the news reports Vick didn't know that his former friend was there ran into him and left the party. Who shot him I dont know but there is no evidence whatsoever that Vick did or instructed anyone to. He removed himself from the situation the NFL and Eagles have the police report. If they thought in ANY way he was involved he would of been gone. To use that as an excuse is absurd.

In closing I know people are going to have their own opinions and whatever you feel is your own opinion. If you hate Vick I totally understand but do realize that a good part of the NFL is full of people that are not very good people. Alot have done things that deserve jail time some have gotten it some haven't. We all have made mistakes, some are stupid some are brutal and some are evil. But what are we to prove by being hateful towards another person.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Did you watch him last year? He looked really slow. He got a year plus of being able to get in shape, learn the playbook, improve his work ethic. Plus OTAs, minicamps, training camp, preseason, etc.

I don't think what he's done is anymore impressive than a guy coming off a knee injury. In fact, it's probably easier because knee injuries can hinder your ability to preform and train at a high level, where as Vick was just out of shape and missed some time playing.
What player can take off two years from the game at QB(!!??), be a backup for a year, and come back BETTER than he ever was playing the position??

I know he's a player on a rival squad, but come on let's give the man his due.

MV met his downfall from his own hubris, very human and all too common among very successful people.

For Vick to excel again in football when few teams even viewed him as an NFL starter coming out of prison really is unheard of.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Now before I start this yes obviously I am an Eagles fan and can take what I say with a grain of salt. Also I do own 3 dogs and am also a Humane society volunteer and active in AKC events.

Now what Vick has done this season is amazing. He has turned his life around but putting this up with Armstrong, Mario Lemieux, and others that have faced down death or life threatening injuries is laughable.

Now as of CBPOTY yes I do believe he deserves it. He went from basically if you look in ATL one of the best players in the league to a season of holding a clipboard to probably runner up in the MVP race. 2 years in prison or not in between anyone that has done that been demoted to a gimmick/3rd string to where he is now is a comeback. Any other QB hands down going from starter to third string to starter at Vicks current level again would get the nod hands down.

Now as of the dog thing yes it makes me sick to think it but it is sadly all to common everywhere. This is not a race issue either but a society as a whole issue. People starve their pets, neglect them, abuse them, beat them, run puppy mills, among other things. Its a sad fact of life but not everyone holds animal life in the same regard. Now what Vick did is brutal, I mean worst of the worst but so have alot of people. Look it up compassion for animals is more of a learned behavior, It is not natural or genetic.

Hell even our species at one time would of pitted humans against humans in mortal combat during ancient times. Compassion for animals has evolved but yet still as a society we find dragging a fish in by a metal hook to the mouth is ok. (( and before you get on me I do love to fish and continue to do so))Do that to a dog drag it around by a hook is cruel. We have as a society placed certain standards on what animals we can be cruel to and what we can't. Not everyone has the same standards either.

I am not going to sit here and scream at Vick for what he did. It was wrong but I am not going to crucify him for it. My first response when he was signed was oh my god why my team. But he is making a honest effort to change his life, now do i think he totally loves dogs, probably not but I don't know. I do know this being around the Humane society and he gets to see the sadness of some of the things but also he gets to see acts of compassion and only Vick knows how that effects him.

The best way to combat animal abuse is through awareness not radical measures like making hate shirts of Vick like a certain group likes to do. The NFL is full of drug abuse, wife beaters, cheaters, and gods knows what else. If we all knew everything that goes on convicted or not we would be sick. And what happened with Vick's birthday party and shooting if you would of not just heard the news reports Vick didn't know that his former friend was there ran into him and left the party. Who shot him I dont know but there is no evidence whatsoever that Vick did or instructed anyone to. He removed himself from the situation the NFL and Eagles have the police report. If they thought in ANY way he was involved he would of been gone. To use that as an excuse is absurd.

In closing I know people are going to have their own opinions and whatever you feel is your own opinion. If you hate Vick I totally understand but do realize that a good part of the NFL is full of people that are not very good people. Alot have done things that deserve jail time some have gotten it some haven't. We all have made mistakes, some are stupid some are brutal and some are evil. But what are we to prove by being hateful towards another person.
You sound like someone who's not blatantly ********. This board could use more of those. Please start posting more.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Good post, Igglez. Nice to see someone demonstrating a bit of perspective in this thread. You articulated a lot of what I was thinking, so that's all.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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How is it relevant at all if what he did was because of himself, or if what he did was gruesome??? He left the game, went to prison, and came back better than before, quite possibly the best player in the league this year. How is he not "eligible" for the greatest comeback ever?
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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I think what it comes down to is whether or not a person believes he really has become a changed man and he feels bad for what he has done or that he is just playing along with it and hasn't changed at all. I certainly hope hes honest when he says he understands whathe did was wrong and he wishes he could take it back, but no one can know for certain. Thus far he's done what he's needed to do to prove he's changed but like I said who can say?
Like I said, the shooting at the party is basically all I need to know to believe that he hasn't changed, is still a thug, and should be banned from the league permanently. The guy who got shot testified against Vick in court. I don't care if he got struck by a bolt of lighting in Siberia, I'd still be suspicious of Vick. The fact that he was shot at Vick's freaking party, and he and all witnesses refused to name the shooter, that shouldn't sit well with anyone with a pulse that has an IQ above 80.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:13 AM    (permalink
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Look, Vick screwed up by hosting an open party; he didn't order a 'hit' on some dude.
There are tons of Vick sycophants in Virginia Beach would have popped that guy just because....and MV would have had nothing to do with it.

Remember, the guy and Vick had words inside the club at the party, Vick immediately left, and I'm sure some people were pissed that this guy was responsible for Vick having to leave early from his own b-day party.

Next thing you know, someone gets shot.

Now Vick is ordering 'hits' AFTER he's been reinstated to the league?? If that was the case, you would think he would have silenced his co-conspirators to prevent them from testifying in the first place.

It was poor judgement attending an openly promoted event, IMO, but I don't see how you connect those dots back to MV.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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Chalk full of self righteous bull **** & hyperbole in this thread
and the winner...
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
So...who forced the guy to become the Hitler to the canine world's Jews?


Yes this comeback deserves to be in the same discussion with the greatest sports comebacks.

It doesn't matter if you walk into a bus or someone pushes you, your still seriously ****** up, and coming back from it, better, stronger and wiser is no less impressive. Focusing on the motivation for the tragedy is irrelevant.

Nothing is written that the conditions for honoring a comeback rests on whether it was personal choices made or unforeseen circumstances. Entering military service or rejecting it, early retirement, bad life choices or making sacrifices, all qualify.

It pains me to see a dog suffer but it's always struck me as morally off kilter to come down so harshly on a man for creating a dog fighting business with dogs historically bred to be fighting animals. Not much uproar over the ill treatment of greyhounds in dog racing or coyote hunting. Not to mention little issue at all with the upstanding man and women who like to "sport" hunt.

In addition to leading his team into the post season, by all accounts, Vick is a changed man and working to correct the damage he caused on his legion of young fans.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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The number of extremely talented athletes that signed up to serve after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, thereby giving up several great years of their professional sports careers in service to their country, and then came back (the ones that were able) and play at a very high level again think this thread is an absolute joke.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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How is it relevant at all if what he did was because of himself, or if what he did was gruesome??? He left the game, went to prison, and came back better than before, quite possibly the best player in the league this year. How is he not "eligible" for the greatest comeback ever?
he did it to himself. it was his own dumb fault he went to jail. doesn't matter if it was for cheating his freakin' taxes, he broke the law. it gets more headlines because of WHAT he did, but regardless, it was his own fault. and, i guess this is the key thing, my opinion, it shouldn't be the greatest comeback ever if it was due to his own stupidity and breaking the law.
is it really that hard to not be a criminal?
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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What player can take off two years from the game at QB(!!??), be a backup for a year, and come back BETTER than he ever was playing the position??

I know he's a player on a rival squad, but come on let's give the man his due.

MV met his downfall from his own hubris, very human and all too common among very successful people.

For Vick to excel again in football when few teams even viewed him as an NFL starter coming out of prison really is unheard of.
Except if you'd ever read my other posts I give Mike Vick a ton credit and fully acknowledge he's one of the best players in the league, no question. But is it any more impressive than Drew Brees coming off a major shoulder injury and playing at an unreal level? Or Tom Brady coming off an ACL injury and playing at a MVP level? To me? Not really, no. I think it's more difficult coming back from a major knee injury than it is coming back off not playing football for 18 months and getting a redshirt year to regain your abilities.

But that doesn't mean it's not impressive in it's own right. Vick came back from a couple years off, but had plenty of time to get back in shape and study behind McNabb for a year. People are acting like he just got out of jail before this season. Had he been thrown into this situation last year he would have monumentally sucked.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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When Plax comes back to the NFL and makes the pro bowl, you won't see me dogging him out.

And yes, he'll deserve the Comeback POTY award too.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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ohhh...because I'm a Giants fan and Plax helped us win the super bowl...so now i'm supposed to agree with you so I can look good by calling Plax the greatest comeback ever...oh wait
that's a pretty fine strawman argument, kudos to you on it
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
What player can take off two years from the game at QB(!!??), be a backup for a year, and come back BETTER than he ever was playing the position??

I know he's a player on a rival squad, but come on let's give the man his due.

MV met his downfall from his own hubris, very human and all too common among very successful people.

For Vick to excel again in football when few teams even viewed him as an NFL starter coming out of prison really is unheard of.
Roger Staubach and how is this even close, the guy was out of football for almost 5 years and even spent a freaking year in Nam.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I think it's more difficult coming back from a major knee injury than it is coming back off not playing football for 18 months and getting a redshirt year to regain your abilities.
This right here makes me think that you've never played football. Practice is nothing like a game, he can go through a million practices and its not going to compare to the speed and atmosphere of a game, especially after sitting out playing as little as he did last year. He got to practice for a year, whoopty ******* doo, the fact that he played as well as he did so quickly is ridiculous.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Roger Staubach and how is this even close, the guy was out of football for almost 5 years and even spent a freaking year in Nam.
Chill out about Staubach going to 'Nam. He never saw combat, per orders from the U.S. military.

He admitted pushing paper during his tour of duty.

2 year in a federal penitentiary is IMO roughly equal to playing touch football on the beaches of Vietnam.

He's still one of fave QBs alltime, but let's stop acting like he was friggin' John Rambo!!!!

However, 5 years out of competitive football since college and then leading the Cowboys to 5 SB appearances is a bit more of a challenge than having been in the pros, out for two, and back in again.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Chill out about Staubach going to 'Nam. He never saw combat, per orders from the U.S. military.

He admitted pushing paper during his tour of duty.

2 year in a federal penitentiary is IMO roughly equal to playing touch football on the beaches of Vietnam.

He's still one of fave QBs alltime, but let's stop acting like he was friggin' John Rambo!!!!

However, 5 years out of competitive football since college and then leading the Cowboys to 5 SB appearances is a bit more of a challenge than having been in the pros, out for two, and back in again.
The differance with being in Nam as opposed to Iraq or Afghanistan is you had minimal contact with the world for a year unlike guys nowadays who are on the computers and cell phones all the time. I spent 13 months over there chasing Charlie but i never downplayed what others did while in country.

By the way China beach, which is in Danang, was not like being in Malibu, it was a very dangerous place back in 67.
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