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Old 01-17-2011, 04:26 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
because matt light couldn't block an overweight pre-schooler.
And needed help on Jason Taylor.

Jason ******* Taylor. The man is so washed up, you can probably block him with a RB at this point. And the Pats needed to double him.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
Also, I'd like to point out that I think it's fairly disingenuous to call Brady a caretaker or game manager early in his career, especially when you consider what he was working with on offense. Before the Pats went on the Welker/Moss trade bonanza in 2007, the most skilled offensive player he worked with was Corey ******* Dillon. And that only worked out for a year. Meanwhile, he still had the statistical output of a top five quarterback.
Sorry, but no. He didn't put up the statistical output of a top 5 QB at all in those years. He did finish, iirc, 6th in passer rating in 2001. But that was a major down year for QBs and he only posted a PR in the mid-80s. After that, he was hanging around 10th. And passer rating is a stat that skews towards QBs who throw lots of short passes since it effectively gives double credit to completion percentage, which has always been a Brady strong suit. In his first 4 years, their offense was always middle of the pack. Its not like Brady dragged a bunch of misfits to a top 5 finish offensively. No, they produced middle-of-the-pack offense and won with defense, special teams and opportunistic TOs. Brady was just above average as a QB in those years.

His job was to not lose the game early and then get Vinatieri in position to hit the game winning FG if needed. That's it.

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I've said before, after his two MVP years (2007 and likely this year), his best season was the 2006 year when they lost to the Colts in the AFC Championship game. To make it that far with your top targets being Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Kevin Faulk, and Troy Brown (playing both ways)? That's just ridiculous.

I can agree with this, but Brady made huge strides from 2004 to 2006. That receiving crew was terrible. But at the same time, lets not ignore that that team was still a dominant defensive crew. A few highlights:

- 2nd in scoring defense
- 6th in YPG
- 5th in sacks
- 4th in TOs forced
- 4th in rush YPG allowed
- 2nd in defensive passer rating
- 2nd in points off turnovers

So while they did finish top 10 in scoring offense, it was largely a by product of the defense and special teams getting them in position to score (oh, and it didn't hurt that their division is annually a mess), considering that they only finished 12th in YPG.

Even after all this, it still took that miracle in SD after Brady threw what should have been the game-clinching pick just to get them to Indy for that AFC championship game.

All that said, I still think what he did with that joke of a receiving corps was impressive. But that was still a defense-centric team. Not quite on par with the 2003-04 ones, but a better defense than most elite QBs ever have the luxury of relying on.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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It's odd too, bc the Jets were so passive in that game. I don't get why he had happy feet when he saw such a passive pass rush.
I disagree, they blitzed plenty. The difference was that they used fire zones and ZBs, while rarely bringing more than 4 guys. I thought they had a great game plan: bring the heat as best you can while still giving yourself numbers in the secondary and the short-intermediate zones. Brady was sacked six times, lets not forget that. He was under a lot of pressure.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 01-17-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I disagree, they blitzed plenty. The difference was that they used fire zones and ZBs, while rarely bringing more than 4 guys. I thought they had a great game plan: bring the heat as best you can while still giving yourself numbers in the secondary and the short-intermediate zones. Brady was sacked six times, lets not forget that. He was under a lot of pressure.
Yeah, but it was still a 4 man rush, sometimes even a 3. In a 3-4 shell, that's not really a blitz to me.

5 or more pass rushers is a blitz to me, in simple terms. I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, you are absolutely right, I was just keeping my statement simple when I said what I said.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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On Roethlisberger:

He always gets grief because of how good his defense usually is, but he is far more of a difference-maker type than Brady ever was. I do think his 2005 Super Bowl was a joke of a performance, but he has had some great playoff performances, and he is the center of some prolific passing offenses. He does things that only 2 or 3 guys in the league can do. If he dedicated himself to the mental aspect the way that Rivers, Manning, Brady and Brees do, he would be the best QB in the league, clear cut.

Still, as is he can make as good a case as any. He gets the ball down the field and makes plays. He doesn't dink and dunk the way Brady, Brees and (this year) Peyton do. I love his game, and definitely think his play has gone a little under-appreciated.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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This thread makes me cringe a little. Brady is a top 5 QB of all time. He has little or nothing left to prove to anyone other than himself.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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because matt light couldn't block an overweight pre-schooler.
This. If you go into the Pats forum, we've been bitching about him all year.
What we'd like to see is Vollmer shifted to the left side and draft a new RT
A new center, bc Koppen is washed up and can't handle anyone who can bench 225 or more.
I hope to God we resign Mankin bc if we dont then we have an interior issue as well.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I mean, how many times have you seen a DB come free on a blitz against the Pats and blindside Brady? I don't know if I can count on one hand that amount of times that has happened.

In the Giants SB, it was the line pressure. They just overwhelmed the Pats OLine. This game it was a team breakdown. Brady missed things pre-snap, which you almost never see happen
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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because matt light couldn't block an overweight pre-schooler.
Matt Light wasn't as bad as Dan Connolly.

edit: Connolly was mostly responsible for the Shaun Ellis Imprint on Brady's backside.

and the DB who blitzed free... was Brady's fault.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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This thread makes me cringe a little. Brady is a top 5 QB of all time. He has little or nothing left to prove to anyone other than himself.
Wrong.




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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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and the DB who blitzed free... was Brady's fault.
Yea, didn't he shift protection to the right side... when the blitz was disguised and came from his left side. Bad pre-snap read.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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It looked like he shifted it, 4 lineman ended up blocking 2 Jets and the DB came from and Brady never saw it coming.

The Jets simply out schemed the Pats and Brady was unable to recognize what was happening pre snap, which I think has been his greatest skill over the years. He has always been incredible at knowing who would be open simply be reading the defense. The Pats offense has always been great at using motion to try and help Brady figure out what the defense was doing.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Brady isn't top 5 all time? Name who's ahead of him.

I'd say my top 5 are:

1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Elway
4. Brady
4. Peyton

Tie btw Brady and Peyton.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Brady isn't top 5 all time? Name who's ahead of him.

I'd say my top 5 are:

1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Elway
4. Brady
4. Peyton

Tie btw Brady and Peyton.
Bump Unitas and Elway up one, replace Brady with Marino, and put Montana fourth.

As for Roethlisberger, I agree with an earlier poster. He is more of a difference maker than Brady. Brady has usually had a much better line, and he throws a lot of short passes and quicker passes like Montana did(that is why Bradshaw called the Walsh WCO the "Get rid of it and save your ***" offense) that were usually against soft coverage. If Big Ben had that line and system, he would be putting up much better numbers than Brady, and the Pats would be twice as dangerous because Ben can make something out of nothing.

As for Peyton, I think that the Colts have over-relied on him in the playoffs. They had the running game, but outside of 06, they didn't use it enough. Also, they had a lot of guys that shouldn't have been starting in the NFL the last 8 or so years on defense, like Clint Session, Mike Doss, Jason David, Philip Wheeler, Donald Muir, and Antonio Johnson. Dungy was tied too much to the Tampa 2, and he would get people to fit the scheme that were less talented. He would have been better served to change the scheme because he didn't have Sapp, Rice, Hardware, D-Brooks, Lynch, or Ronde in Indy.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure a lot of people here watched many of Johnny U's games... Even if you have watched every game that some QB from 40 years ago played, it's hard to compare them. I don't buy for a second that you can compare Brady vs Unitas if you haven't seen a whole lot of both of them. Totally different eras.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Brady is a greater QB than Elway.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Nice. Care to tell me where I said that? Good luck finding it, because I didn't.
I was only being semi-serious, but you are pretty harsh on QBs and seem to avoid the circumstances that may have contributed to their poor play. Not that it isn't unfair to hold players accountable, but I've always believed there can be other reasons for someone not having success.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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that's a cute opinion. you must like reading box scores.

Box scores, rings, wins... Really doesn't matter what you try to look at, Elway has always been overrated.

Elway's legend has grown exponentially since almost everyone here wasn't around to watch him.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Best QBs in the league today:
1. Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Big Ben
4. Rivers
5. A. Rodgers
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:07 PM    (permalink
Sniper
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5. A. Rodgers
Hahahahahahahahhahaha
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:22 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Brady isn't top 5 all time? Name who's ahead of him.

I'd say my top 5 are:

1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Elway
4. Brady
4. Peyton

Tie btw Brady and Peyton.
My order would be little different but I really don't see how it could be anyone else other than those five.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:25 PM    (permalink
Morton
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Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton Morton
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You don't have Favre in the top 5?
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:29 PM    (permalink
gsorace
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My order would be little different but I really don't see how it could be anyone else other than those five.
Otto Graham?
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:40 PM    (permalink
GB12
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Hahahahahahahahhahaha
What's so funny?
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:02 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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1. Matt Cassel
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my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
<TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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