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Old 01-29-2011, 12:25 PM    (permalink
bullg8rdaddy
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Default Most successful coaching tree of the past 20 years?

Jimmy Johnson?

Bill Parcells?

Steve Walsh?

Tony Dungy?

Pretty sure there are more out there.

Who you got and why?

Go.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Mike Holmgren's is pretty impressive from the time he was with Green Bay.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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While Bill Walsh has a massive coaching tree with numerous current or former head coaches, the relative success has not been great. Only really Billick, Gruden and Shanahan have had any Superbowl success and many credit Tony Dungy for most of Tampa Bay's success.

I would go with the Parcells tree personally. While there are not as many high profile coaches the success of those coaches has been very good. Belichick, Payton and Coughlin directly worked with Parcells and have all won at least one Superbowl. However, after these, not many further disciples have had much success, ie Crennel, McDaniels, Petrino, Jauron etc
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Who were/are the coaches under Holmgren?

Gruden
Mornhinweg
Reid?
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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FYI Dungy's tree

Lovie Smith 1 Super Bowl as HC and 1 as Rams DC (unfortunately had Grossman as QB)
Herm Edwards
Rod Marinelli
Mike Tomlin 3 Super Bowls (2 rings a chance at another)
Raheem Morris
Leslie Frazier 3-3 as interim HC now permanent HC
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
While Bill Walsh has a massive coaching tree with numerous current or former head coaches, the relative success has not been great. Only really Billick, Gruden and Shanahan have had any Superbowl success and many credit Tony Dungy for most of Tampa Bay's success.

I would go with the Parcells tree personally. While there are not as many high profile coaches the success of those coaches has been very good. Belichick, Payton and Coughlin directly worked with Parcells and have all won at least one Superbowl. However, after these, not many further disciples have had much success, ie Crennel, McDaniels, Petrino, Jauron etc
Very impressive.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Dungy?

- Lovie Smith
- Herm Edwards
- Mike Tomlin
- Rod Marinelli (bad situation in Detroit however, good d-coach)
- Leslie Frazier (asst. Indy)
- Jim Caldwell

All had some/great (Tomlin) success as head coaches (except Marinelli)
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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D'OH

I forgot Caldwell.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Dungy?

- Lovie Smith
- Herm Edwards
- Mike Tomlin
- Rod Marinelli (bad situation in Detroit however, good d-coach)
- Leslie Frazier (asst. Indy)
- Jim Caldwell

All had some/great (Tomlin) success as head coaches (except Marinelli)
Does Manning count? lol.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Parcells FTW!!!!! Sure he had that one Bellicheck dude and he has done okay. Payton has done alright too. But Tom Coughlin worked with Spags. So Spags is on Coughlin's and Spags is awesome. Coughlin is on Parcells. So trickle up affect. PARCELLS FTW!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bullg8rdaddy View Post
FYI Dungy's tree

Lovie Smith 1 Super Bowl as HC and 1 as Rams DC (unfortunately had Grossman as QB)
Herm Edwards
Rod Marinelli
Mike Tomlin 3 Super Bowls (2 rings a chance at another)
Raheem Morris
Leslie Frazier 3-3 as interim HC now permanent HC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Raheem become a part of the Tampa Coaching staff in 2002, when Dungy was not there?
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Raheem become a part of the Tampa Coaching staff in 2002, when Dungy was not there?
I think you're right. According to wikipedia, Morris is not part of Dungy's coaching tree.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Bill Walsh, no questions asked. Half of the league can be traced back to him.



Holmgren, Fox, Reid, McCarthy, Gruden, Shanahan, Fisher, Dungy, Lovie, and Tomlin have all made it to a Superbowl, and I'm sure there are more on the list, but I don't know them and what they did.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Bill Walsh, no questions asked. Half of the league can be traced back to him.



Holmgren, Fox, Reid, McCarthy, Gruden, Shanahan, Fisher, Dungy, Lovie, and Tomlin have all made it to a Superbowl, and I'm sure there are more on the list, but I don't know them and what they did.
But in all fairness, how many of those coaches can be considered to be even better than average let alone very good/elite? Holmgren done a very good job in Seattle and Green Bay, Shanahan had a great period in the late 90s, Dungy speaks for himself as does Tomlin, Billick was an offensive genius who had a team that won with a ridiculous defense and a below average offense, Gruden is ehh as is Fisher, Andy Reid was never able to get over the hump, Fox had one or two good years and the rest are mediocre. The sheer numbers of guys who have become head coaches go in the favour of Walsh's tree but few have been very successful and you could argue that the Parcells tree has had as much success with far less numbers.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I think you're right. According to wikipedia, Morris is not part of Dungy's coaching tree.
You are correct, my bust. Thanks.

But I did find that his first NFL gig was this:

Quote:
Also, in 2001, he spent time as a defensive minority intern with the New York Jets.
Under Herm Edwards.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Parcells or Walsh. Holmgren comes from Walsh's tree and Holmgren has a pretty impressive tree himself. Parcell had Belichick, but Belichick's assistants haven't found much success as head coaches so far (Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McDaniels).
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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But in all fairness, how many of those coaches can be considered to be even better than average let alone very good/elite? Holmgren done a very good job in Seattle and Green Bay, Shanahan had a great period in the late 90s, Dungy speaks for himself as does Tomlin, Billick was an offensive genius who had a team that won with a ridiculous defense and a below average offense, Gruden is ehh as is Fisher, Andy Reid was never able to get over the hump, Fox had one or two good years and the rest are mediocre. The sheer numbers of guys who have become head coaches go in the favour of Walsh's tree but few have been very successful and you could argue that the Parcells tree has had as much success with far less numbers.
I dont agree with your ring = success statement. Billick won a ring in the same tree but you wont remotely call him a good coach. Andy Reid Mike Shanahan were all elite coaches. Mccarthy is soon becoming one. Mike Holmgren was terrific with two teams, Fisher Fox and Gruden were all long tenured and well regarded. The sheer amount of good coaching talent that came out on both sides of the ball was what makes this tree so good.

Also it seems most of them share horrible clock management skills as well. ;)
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Only the ones that directly coached under them should count. I mean it's not like Marty Mornhinweg has no real connection to Walsh. And you can just keep going back. Bill Walsh coached under Paul Brown. So if that's how you're counting it then Brown has all the same guys Walsh had, plus Walsh and Weeb Ewbank, therefore his is much more impressive.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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I dont agree with your ring = success statement. Billick won a ring in the same tree but you wont remotely call him a good coach. Andy Reid Mike Shanahan were all elite coaches. Mccarthy is soon becoming one. Mike Holmgren was terrific with two teams, Fisher Fox and Gruden were all long tenured and well regarded. The sheer amount of good coaching talent that came out on both sides of the ball was what makes this tree so good.

Also it seems most of them share horrible clock management skills as well. ;)
Not necessarily just Superbowl rings but wins as well. I dont necessarily agree with the premise that being long tenured makes you a good coach either. Jeff Fisher only had, I think, 6 winning seasons in Tennessee.

I also don't think that at the minute any of those current coaches except Tomlin come close to either Belichick or Payton. At the moment I would consider Tomlin and McCarthy to be the only top coaches in that tree and they both benefit from excellent front offices too.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Agree. Just the ones that coached directly under them should count.
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Old 01-29-2011, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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The greatest coaching trees of all time were

Jim Lee Howell (Giants)
OC: Lombardi
DC: Landry

Parcells Coaching Tree
speaks for itself

Walsh's coaching Tree
speaks for itself
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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If we're talking solely about coaches who coached under the guy, then I'll say Walsh followed by Parcells and then Holmgren.

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Originally Posted by bullg8rdaddy View Post
D'OH

I forgot Caldwell.
Common mistake...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn View Post
If it's a branching tree like that, Jeff Fisher has Jim Schwartz and Gregg Williams as part of his tree.

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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Jeff Fisher only had, I think, 6 winning seasons in Tennessee.
He also only had 5 losing seasons. :)

Not to turn this thread off topic, but people need to understand why Fisher is seen as this great coach yet only has 6 winning seasons. In the modern NFL, rules have been put into place that force parity, such as the salary cap. In 16 full seasons, Fisher was .500 or better in 11 of them (I'm not going to count his interim year). Should .500 be applauded? No way. Just saying it's hard to escape that when your job is restricted towards that outcome.

Yet, we have many teams who are contenders year in and year out. That's because elite QB's, usually along with great HC's and/or top notch front offices, carry enough power to overcome such things.

Who and when was the last elite QB for the Titans?

Not only that, but do people realize he oversaw a franchise shift from Houston, TX to Nashville, TN that saw stops in Memphis and Vanderbilt's stadium, along with Floyd Reese getting the team into the depths of salary cap hell after '04. The Titans had one losing season after that, and went 8-8 two seasons later. And this is all without getting into the Bud Adams shenanigans.

It was time for the Titans and Fisher to split. I still like Fisher. A lot. I hope he goes to another team, where he actually gets to approve the player who plays the most vital position, and shows up the people who just skimmed his wikipedia page and started judging his career. If you're going to criticize something, target his **** playoff success. It literally took a miracle for him to get to the Super Bowl.

/rant
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.

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Old 01-29-2011, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Brian Billick has:

Marvin Lewis
Mike Nolan
Mike Smith
Jack Del Rio
Rex Ryan
Mike Singletary
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
Quote:
Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
Brian Billick has:

Marvin Lewis
Mike Nolan
Mike Smith
Jack Del Rio
Rex Ryan
Mike Singletary
Rex is from Buddy"s coaching tree more than anything else
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Rex is from Buddy"s coaching tree more than anything else
How? He broke into coaching on Billick's staff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
Quote:
Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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