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Old 03-21-2007, 08:07 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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Default Trade With Atlanta?

Who thinks ATL might move up to #2 for CJ? They now have two second round picks and the 8th pick instead of 10th . . .

I wonder if they'd be willing to deal us #8, their own 2nd rounder, and their 3rd?
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Who thinks ATL might move up to #2 for CJ? They now have two second round picks and the 8th pick instead of 10th . . .

I wonder if they'd be willing to deal us #8, their own 2nd rounder, and their 3rd?
gotta get more than that to drop 8 spots. More like 1st (this year's) and next years + their 2nd
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I would take this years first, second and third. It may not be a fair trade according to the value chart, but the value chart may be a tad overrated, much like the 40. At 8 we could still get Willis which is probably who we are targeting at this point, or maybe Landry. With the extra second and all those 5th rounds we could move back up into the first or maybe with the third and 5ths move into the second. Atlanta did just sign Joe Horn so they may just be looking for a replacement for Kearney.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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i would absolutely trade down to #8, for a second and a third. we could get PWillis there and use the later picks to trade up if we want.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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The truth whatever Millen does will back fire. Cover 2 is completely ignorant and that again is Millens fault. When you hire a yes man and an x head coach that wants to fight his own players, and to them nude streakers at Wendy's and son-in-laws you pretty much cant fix anything through a draft. How bout instead of dreaming of drafting players to help the team we fix the organization. Millen is a hardheaded arrogant selfish man, so I it doesnt matter what pick we have it only matters what player Millen choses.

In theory Quinn is the man that best fits a team overhaul. The ATL trade would also be very intelligent if you went that route. But I have watched Millen's quick fixes for 6 some years and I've personally seen him put the blame on others that being every coach under his tenur.

We need to be honest with this situation and build from scratch, so again either Quinn or make the trade with ATL, but the worst team in the NFL over the past six years can't rely on 30 something career backups to get the job done. And if they really wanted to change the atmosphere in the locker room guys like Roy Williams and Big BABY need to shut up or get packing. NO ONE is above the game.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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I would take this years first, second and third. It may not be a fair trade according to the value chart, but the value chart may be a tad overrated, much like the 40.
Saying that it may be unfair according to the chart is an understatement with the scenario you presented.
2nd overall pick is 2600 pts.

The 8th overall pick is worth 1400 pts, the 2nd and 3rd round picks are worth 510 points and 215, respectively. In return we'd only be getting 2125 points. The difference is equivalent to that of a 2nd round pick.

There are guys in the media who have spoken with GM's and industry pro's. The system is not some fake numbers game, it is real and is employed. Those who choose not to employ it will get fleeced.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure that Atlanta makes that jump. They are well-stocked to rebuild a lot of key areas, and they have plenty of needs for a team with high ambitions. They have 4 WR's in Jenkins, White, Horn, Finnerna.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Atlanta has to many holes to trade up to #2. If they give up that many 1st day picks I would be upset. If they do trade up I think it will be with tampa where the would only have to give up a 2nd rounder
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I was just thinking about this, and I am wondering if that's why they did the trade. Maybe we were talking with them, we said we didn't want shaub, so they went out and got some firepower to try and trade up?
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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I think what the Falcons did was jump ahead of the Dolphins so they can take LaRon Landry without any trouble... They could very well move up for CJ, but I wouldn't see it as making or breaking their draft.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Lets say that Willis is two on the Lions big board, behind only CJ. If you can trade down to 8 and still get Willis, and get a second and third in the process, how are we getting fleeced? We pay millions less, get the man we want, and acquire more picks that can be used to move up or give us a solid player. If Atlanta wants to throw in a next years first, great. But at the end of the day i would rather the Lion heads pull the trigger on the deal and not end up getting nothing because of what the trade value chart adds up too.
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Lets say that Willis is two on the Lions big board, behind only CJ. If you can trade down to 8 and still get Willis, and get a second and third in the process, how are we getting fleeced? We pay millions less, get the man we want, and acquire more picks that can be used to move up or give us a solid player. If Atlanta wants to throw in a next years first, great. But at the end of the day i would rather the Lion heads pull the trigger on the deal and not end up getting nothing because of what the trade value chart adds up too.
Because you're not getting equal value in return for trading down. Like I said earlier, if you go by the points system, the #2 pick is worth 2600 points.

If you trade down you better get the picks in return which accumulate to about 2600 points, give or take a few. Their first pick at 8th overall(1400 pts)+Their 2nd round pick(510 pts)+Their 3rd round pick(215 pts) only equal 2125 points. How is that not getting fleeced????

I don't think while drafting you should worry about money, unless you're in a tight budget (something the lions don't face currently).

You're passing up on a potential future hall of fame type receiver, as Peter King called him the most secure pick to come along in years. With talent like this probably being available at #2, you better make sure you don't get owned.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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The truth whatever Millen does will back fire. Cover 2 is completely ignorant and that again is Millens fault. When you hire a yes man and an x head coach that wants to fight his own players, and to them nude streakers at Wendy's and son-in-laws you pretty much cant fix anything through a draft. How bout instead of dreaming of drafting players to help the team we fix the organization. Millen is a hardheaded arrogant selfish man, so I it doesnt matter what pick we have it only matters what player Millen choses.

In theory Quinn is the man that best fits a team overhaul. The ATL trade would also be very intelligent if you went that route. But I have watched Millen's quick fixes for 6 some years and I've personally seen him put the blame on others that being every coach under his tenur.

We need to be honest with this situation and build from scratch, so again either Quinn or make the trade with ATL, but the worst team in the NFL over the past six years can't rely on 30 something career backups to get the job done. And if they really wanted to change the atmosphere in the locker room guys like Roy Williams and Big BABY need to shut up or get packing. NO ONE is above the game.
Ok chill out,
-the cover 2 is not "ignorant", it won Tampa and Indy Championships something we would like to eventually get.
-Marinelli's "son-in-law" was also the linebackers coach in tampa and was a desired target of several other teams for d-coordinator, however the Lions wrapped him up early enough that there was no major hubbub made about it. I have no explanation for the naked driving.
-Millen does not have a stellar track record by ANY means, but he is truly buying into this system w/ marinelli and you cant blame him for making trades (BLY trade, possible trade down) and FA signings (DeWayne White, Shaun McDonald) that fit the system and better his team. And outside of BMW, Millens drafts havent been all too shabby. (see me if you want explanation)
- An entire team overhaul is a bit rash, but major changes are necessary and are taking place. The ATL trade would allow us to acquire more Draft picks and better our team.
-Kitna is a journeyman but he put up some really good numbers considering he was behind a patchwork line with no KJ for most of the season. The INT's dont help but that can be solved with better O-Line play. Quinn would make sense but all indications are that DStanton is becoming the choice in round 2.
-Roy Williams and Shaun Rogers simply want to win. They are both very passionate players from a very prestigious collegiate program (Texas) and they are not used to losing. Id rather have them talking about how badly they want to win then have them not talk at all.

Read Up before you go making huge posts like this.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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gotta get more than that to drop 8 spots. More like 1st (this year's) and next years + their 2nd
Only dropping 6 spots now, id rather your deal for obvious reasons but id take a 1,2,3 for a move down.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Ok chill out,
-the cover 2 is not "ignorant", it won Tampa and Indy Championships something we would like to eventually get.
-Marinelli's "son-in-law" was also the linebackers coach in tampa and was a desired target of several other teams for d-coordinator, however the Lions wrapped him up early enough that there was no major hubbub made about it. I have no explanation for the naked driving.
-Millen does not have a stellar track record by ANY means, but he is truly buying into this system w/ marinelli and you cant blame him for making trades (BLY trade, possible trade down) and FA signings (DeWayne White, Shaun McDonald) that fit the system and better his team. And outside of BMW, Millens drafts havent been all too shabby. (see me if you want explanation)
- An entire team overhaul is a bit rash, but major changes are necessary and are taking place. The ATL trade would allow us to acquire more Draft picks and better our team.
-Kitna is a journeyman but he put up some really good numbers considering he was behind a patchwork line with no KJ for most of the season. The INT's dont help but that can be solved with better O-Line play. Quinn would make sense but all indications are that DStanton is becoming the choice in round 2.
-Roy Williams and Shaun Rogers simply want to win. They are both very passionate players from a very prestigious collegiate program (Texas) and they are not used to losing. Id rather have them talking about how badly they want to win then have them not talk at all.

Read Up before you go making huge posts like this.

Very well said... I don't think what is proposed as a possibility is a bad idea...think about this though... your thinking of taking Quinn at #2.. if you don't take him and say you moved down to #8 you potentially could still take him if Cleveland doesnt... yes the Browns will probably take him but I still think Adrian Peterson is going there and they will go after Drew Stanton or Troy Smith in later rounds...so you know Tampa isnt going after him, Arizona, Washinton, Minnesota same situation not going after Quinn so you possibly drop down and still get that franchise QB to play behind Kitna for a year and learn Martz's system. Plus you pick up some extra picks in later rounds to address your OL and secondary which this year you could make a lot of headway on depth and really building through the draft something you have not done well under Millen so I can see why there is some much hate for him. He wants to win though its not like he is trying to sabotage the Organization !!
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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Very well said... I don't think what is proposed as a possibility is a bad idea...think about this though... your thinking of taking Quinn at #2.. if you don't take him and say you moved down to #8 you potentially could still take him if Cleveland doesnt... yes the Browns will probably take him but I still think Adrian Peterson is going there and they will go after Drew Stanton or Troy Smith in later rounds...so you know Tampa isnt going after him, Arizona, Washinton, Minnesota same situation not going after Quinn so you possibly drop down and still get that franchise QB to play behind Kitna for a year and learn Martz's system. Plus you pick up some extra picks in later rounds to address your OL and secondary which this year you could make a lot of headway on depth and really building through the draft something you have not done well under Millen so I can see why there is some much hate for him. He wants to win though its not like he is trying to sabotage the Organization !!
no. If we pick a QB it's either Quinn or Stanton.

And to be honest with you, if ATL offers their first and second i'd consider it seriously, and if they add a 4th it becomes a no-brainer. We have no real use for the #2, and eight overall would get us the player that we both want and need (P Willis) as well as get a shot at drafting Stanton and a good CB in round two. It's a win win as long as we don't take the trade value chart too seriously.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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i was thinkin the same thing with ATL they have plenty of ammo but they also have a lot of wrs who asre pretty good. But none of them are a sure thign #1 wr IMO so they might be interested but i think they are gonna adress other areas unfortunatly
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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no. If we pick a QB it's either Quinn or Stanton.

And to be honest with you, if ATL offers their first and second i'd consider it seriously, and if they add a 4th it becomes a no-brainer. We have no real use for the #2, and eight overall would get us the player that we both want and need (P Willis) as well as get a shot at drafting Stanton and a good CB in round two. It's a win win as long as we don't take the trade value chart too seriously.
he was talking about the browns
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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And to be honest with you, if ATL offers their first and second i'd consider it seriously, and if they add a 4th it becomes a no-brainer. We have no real use for the #2, and eight overall would get us the player that we both want and need (P Willis) as well as get a shot at drafting Stanton and a good CB in round two. It's a win win as long as we don't take the trade value chart too seriously.
Exactly. If they offer a 1st and 2nd, it's a trade you have to take. Moving down to draft your main target and getting another 2nd round pick in the deal... perfect. Add any other picks and the deal just gets better.

asmitty... thanks for responding to that post. I was about to say something, but you covered it.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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If we could move up to #2 just by giving up #8 and our 2nd, I would do it in a heartbeat. It would be hard to choose between CJ and Joe Thomas though. I think that Vick behind an elite OL would be a scary thing to witness. That would still leave us with a pick in every round and 2 in the 3rd and 4th.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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If we could move up to #2 just by giving up #8 and our 2nd, I would do it in a heartbeat. It would be hard to choose between CJ and Joe Thomas though. I think that Vick behind an elite OL would be a scary thing to witness. That would still leave us with a pick in every round and 2 in the 3rd and 4th.
Honestly, if I were a Falcons fan and the Falcons spent some picks to move up... and drafted OLine (with CJesus on the board)... I'd be furious.

If you want OLine, draft OLine in the 2nd round. But, CJ will be incredible... the perfect fit for Vick.

That offense would be scary.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Honestly, if I were a Falcons fan and the Falcons spent some picks to move up... and drafted OLine (with CJesus on the board)... I'd be furious.

If you want OLine, draft OLine in the 2nd round. But, CJ will be incredible... the perfect fit for Vick.

That offense would be scary.
I said it would be hard to choose, but I would still choose CJ haha.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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I said it would be hard to choose, but I would still choose CJ haha.
*phew*

You had me scurred.

We almost had to have "the talk".

Fans shouldn't let Falcon's fans select ANY player at #2 over CJesus.
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Only dropping 6 spots now
I know, I mentioned that in post # 6.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I'd say no deal if I was getting only a 2nd and 3rd from atlanta.

IMO, it should be both 2nd round picks and a 4th as well. (based on the value chart)

Summary of Picks:
1st (#8), 3 2nd rounders, 3 rounder, 2 4th rounders, 4 5th rounders, 6th, 7th.

BTW, if they decided package say... two of the 2nd round picks they can move up into the middle of the first round.
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