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Old 11-20-2011, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Get after Vince Young!!! Pressure him, and come on Fewell blitz him!
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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once again, we're terrible at running the ball and our LB's really screwed us on 3rd downs.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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and on a side note, even though there were a few rookie mistakes by Amukamara (stumbling, mistiming jump even though he did get the INT, and not following a guy leaving his zone when there was no other threatening receiver in the area) I thought that he did very well for his first game back. He's a big guy, looks solid in run support too. Having him, Web, and TT would be incredible for us. Ross probably won't come back because of his good season this year, I'd like to try to keep him though.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:57 AM    (permalink
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Okay, so here are some of my thoughts on this game and the Giants this season in general:

-Let's start with Mark Herzlich. I was really excited to see what he could do, because not only is he a great story, he also has the potential to become a great player if he can return to form. I thought he looked pretty good against the run, he had a few tackles for a loss and always seemed to be around the ballcarrier. on a number of occasions he showed pretty good instincts, in my opinion.

-His play against the pass was a different story though. He looked confused and slow in his zone drops all game long,and was the main man to blame for multiple completions over the middle. We all knew he's lost some speed after the cancer treatment, but he looked real slow and overmatched in coverage. He at least needs to correct the mental lapses in pass coverage, because his physical abilities are not there to play the pass at this point.

- This was not surprising coming into this game, but all of our LBs were abused against the pass really. Paysinger also struggled a lot, while Jaquian Williams did OK. And the TD Smith scored was identical to the Vernon Davis TD last weekend. good job by philly designing a play where Smith came on on one against Kiwanuka. That's a mismatch if I ever saw one. Giants need to correct that coverage this week, because you can bet your ass that Sean Payton and Drew Brees took notice of that play in particular and the LB coverage woes in general.

-Our O-line flat out sucks. There's no way to sugarcoat this. Beatty sucks and allowed pressures all game long. He also committed multiple penalties. Diehl is washed up, and gets pushed back two yards almost every play. Baas is new to the offense, so he gets a tiny free pass, but by now he should have corrected some of the mistakes he makes. But I'm pretty sure he looks worse because he plays next to Diehl and Snee as well. Snee was sick yesterday, so that kind of explains the down game. But he's had a subpar season for his standards as well. not sure if it's because of his linemates poor play, himself, or a combination. McKenzie needs to be replaced very soon as well. He can't handle the pass rushers good enough any more.

-Run Blocking is non-existant. No push. Blown assignments. miscommunications. It looks horrible. 29 yards on the ground. Really? We're doomed if this isn' fixed. At this point it looks like it can't be fixed anymore.

-The WRs looked unfocused yesterday. Ballard had three drops on very catchable balls, and almost caused an INT when he slipped on his in cut when he got his arm injured. Cruz played great overall, but he was guilty of two bad drops.Hakeem Nicks dropped the big deep ball as well. That ball was heavily contested by Samuels, yes. But it's a play Hak normally makes 9 out of 10 times.

-The long-awaited debut of Prince Amukamara was positive in my eyes. He looked overmatched on his INT against Jackson, but at least he recovered nicely and made the play. And after that, he played real well. I don't think he gave up a single completion in man coverage all night long( have to rewatch the game to be certain). It's early, but he looks like a keeper so far.

Now, on to our favorite co-ordinators!

-It's hard for me to blame Kevin Gilbride too much on offense. He called a pretty good game i think, but the players let him down out there, especially the O-line. Eli had no time to throw, and there was no running room whatsoever. He stuck to the run, and i like that, but there was no help to be found for Gilbride and Eli yesterday. He still has his flaws as a playcaller, but overall I woudn't place too much of the blame for yesterday on playcalling. The players just didn't execute. We need to go offense for most of this next draft.

-Perry Fewell needs to go. I'm sick and tired of this. Whenever we play a bad QB, he treats it like a preseason game and stops blitzing. We have four losses this year. The QBs we lost against? Rex Grossman,Clipboard Jesus,Alex Smith and Vince Young. Smith is playing pretty good this year, but the other three guys are among the worst 10 guys to have started a game at QB this season. It's atrocious that he just sits back in his soft zones and rush three or four guys against these guys. Just pressure them god dammit. It's the New York Giant defensive style. I'm dreading rewatching that final eagles scoring drive because there's a third and 10 completion in there where we rush three guys and drop eight in coverage. I called out "first down the minute i saw this. And predictably enough, Young gets five seconds in the pocket and throws to Riley Cooper sitting in a soft spot between two LBs 14 yards down the field. UGH.

-This loss was devastating, because we really needed this W. I'm not sure how we are going to get by against the Saints and Packers without Boley, he really needs to come back fast. And if we come in to the week 14 game @the Cowboys down two games, we are effectively in a win or go home mode that game. And with the soft schedule for the Cowboys, we might have to win our final four games to have a chance. Luckily for us the Bears might not win another game with Cutler out, and I don't really trust the Falcons. So we just might be able to sneak into the Wildcard race if we don't win the division.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I agree about Herzlich. He's a 2 down Linebacker. What I saw from him, I liked more than Jones. However not having Boley hurts. None of these guys can cover.

Also I though Kiwi played a great game. Maybe his best ever as a LB?

The line was piss poor but Jacobs still bothers me. He's officially soft. He's so big that if the hole isn't there he needs to just get up the ass of the Oline and push forward. At least get 2-3 yards. He should never cut back. That is a guaranteed no gain or loss.

And of course I agree about Fewell. At no point EVER, should we only rush 3 down lineman. It needs to be taken out of the playbook. If we are rushing 3 down lineman, automatically we do not have our best talent on the field. Someone is sitting on the bench for someone not as good as him.

Thanksgiving games got interesting for us. It is officially time to root against other NFC teams. Hope the Packers beat the Lions and the Dolphins beat the Cowboys.

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Old 11-21-2011, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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.

Also I though Kiwi played a great game. Maybe his best ever as a LB?
Kiwi played great against the run he was beasting on McCoy all night long. He was ok against the pass, but he did obviously get exposed a few times in the passing game. That's not his fault though, it's because he's asked to do too much due to the injury to Boley.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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I hate our coordinators especially Fewell! 3 man rush against a backup QB!? Really? 3rd down after 3rd down converted one after another. I hate our offense, every part from the play calling to the fragile RBs and WRs. Our OL is beyond pathetic!

BBD, Screw this we are going offense in this years draft! 1-7! I know that's not logical or possible, but I want everything scraped. If that means firing Coughlin, and I like him a lot, then so be it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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I can't really blame Fewell for doing something Spags did when he was here to. At this point I'm pretty sure it's coming down from coughlin, not to "give away" too much in games we shouldn't have to.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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I can't really blame Fewell for doing something Spags did when he was here to. At this point I'm pretty sure it's coming down from coughlin, not to "give away" too much in games we shouldn't have to.
Fewell is the Anti spags. Spags overloaded A gap, and blitzed with the CB. Fewell is Mr. zone with a 3 man rush. Very stupid game he called! Why have DEs then if you plan on using 3 of them, or 2?
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Fewell is the Anti spags. Spags overloaded A gap, and blitzed with the CB. Fewell is Mr. zone with a 3 man rush. Very stupid game he called! Why have DEs then if you plan on using 3 of them, or 2?
Let's not act like there weren't games were we were bitching about spags being way to vanilla as well. I like spags more than I like Fewell, clearly as I'm not a moron, but when Fewell decides to be aggressive he's a plenty good play caller in his own right and there were more than enough games were Spags' play calling left you wanting that I can't help but assume that it's coming down from higher up. Let us not forgot how vanilla our D was for so much of that 2008 season when we were just smacking people around in the trenches and offensively.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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yeah, we need OL, LB and RB this draft. Like, that's it. Along with a quick TE to be Eli's safety valve if he's going to have defenders in his face after 2 steps. Boley out killed us. But we need at least one more LB to be able to cover, and right now, we just don't have that
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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Let's not act like there weren't games were we were bitching about spags being way to vanilla as well. I like spags more than I like Fewell, clearly as I'm not a moron, but when Fewell decides to be aggressive he's a plenty good play caller in his own right and there were more than enough games were Spags' play calling left you wanting that I can't help but assume that it's coming down from higher up. Let us not forgot how vanilla our D was for so much of that 2008 season when we were just smacking people around in the trenches and offensively.
We were. But Spags is much better than this filth! Spags was aggressive! You knew that he was going to come after QBs. This is garbage! How do you rush 3 against a backup QB?! That's inexcusable! Also, guys are wide open in this zone defense.

No blitzes, the QB has time to chill in the pocket, talk on the phone, eat a burrito and then throw to a skill player, just hanging out in the zone between giants defenders before catching it and running upfield.

Sometimes, the skill player, in yesterday's game Jackson was WIDE OPEN, with no giant in the tv frame! That's BS in my mind!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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We were. But Spags is much better than this filth! Spags was aggressive! You knew that he was going to come after QBs. This is garbage! How do you rush 3 against a backup QB?! That's inexcusable! Also, guys are wide open in this zone defense.

No blitzes, the QB has time to chill in the pocket, talk on the phone, eat a burrito and then throw to a skill player, just hanging out in the zone between giants defenders before catching it and running upfield.

Sometimes, the skill player, in yesterday's game Jackson was WIDE OPEN, with no giant in the tv frame! That's BS in my mind!
That's what I'm trying to say. We're letting nostalgia taint our view of spags cause we're only remembering the games where he brought it. What i'm trying to say is there were games even with spags where we were not aggressive and played frustratingly passively. And then other games where spags let loose. We seen a similar trend with Fewell except he's less inherently aggressive so he doesn't fight coughlin as much on it and when he's given the green light he's not as aggressive as spags because very few play callers are.

Lets look at the dolphins game, we sat back and played passive all game long and then the Dolphins get the ball back for one last drive and what happens? 3 straights sacks on 3 straight blitzes. Why? Because we needed to ice the game so Fewell got the go ahead to get it done. That's why I can't blame Fewell he's shown that he can be aggressive and get things done (pats game), but then there are games were we just don't, and that passive zone crap has reared it's ugly head for this team well before Fewell got here and has happened under every DC we've had, including Spags. It just can't not come from Coughlin.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
That's what I'm trying to say. We're letting nostalgia taint our view of spags cause we're only remembering the games where he brought it. What i'm trying to say is there were games even with spags where we were not aggressive and played frustratingly passively. And then other games where spags let loose. We seen a similar trend with Fewell except he's less inherently aggressive so he doesn't fight coughlin as much on it and when he's given the green light he's not as aggressive as spags because very few play callers are.

Lets look at the dolphins game, we sat back and played passive all game long and then the Dolphins get the ball back for one last drive and what happens? 3 straights sacks on 3 straight blitzes. Why? Because we needed to ice the game so Fewell got the go ahead to get it done. That's why I can't blame Fewell he's shown that he can be aggressive and get things done (pats game), but then there are games were we just don't, and that passive zone crap has reared it's ugly head for this team well before Fewell got here and has happened under every DC we've had, including Spags. It just can't not come from Coughlin.



Well our pass rush got them. I don't think the blitzes got home. I think it was a function of our natural pass rush getting to Moore. We did this with Charlie Whitehurst too! Just examine the last long drive the Eagles had. 3rd down and long, and easily picking apart the scheme. That's a big red flag when Young can do that.

What do you think will happen when we play Brees and AR? 3 man rush them? LOL. Do you think Finley or the Saints TE will not find the soft zone? I cringe at the end result of that game.

That's not even factoring our stupid offense!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Well our pass rush got them. I don't think the blitzes got home. I think it was a function of our natural pass rush getting to Moore. We did this with Charlie Whitehurst too! Just examine the last long drive the Eagles had. 3rd down and long, and easily picking apart the scheme. That's a big red flag when Young can do that.

What do you think will happen when we play Brees and AR? 3 man rush them? LOL. Do you think Finley or the Saints TE will not find the soft zone? I cringe at the end result of that game.

That's not even factoring our stupid offense!
If you're bringing heavy heat that results in multiple guys getting through to the QB the blitz worked, whether it's a lineman getting the sack or the LB/DB you're blitzing.

What happens when we face Brees and AR? The same thing that happened when we played Vick and Brady earlier in the year, Fewell will get to be aggressive and actually call a good game before going all Vanilla again when we play the Redskins.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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If you're bringing heavy heat that results in multiple guys getting through to the QB the blitz worked, whether it's a lineman getting the sack or the LB/DB you're blitzing.

What happens when we face Brees and AR? The same thing that happened when we played Vick and Brady earlier in the year, Fewell will get to be aggressive and actually call a good game before going all Vanilla again when we play the Redskins.
We will see on that. I hope you are right. But I hate Fewell and this system. Did you realize the key was running mesh all night long on us trying to confuse the rookie and inexperienced LBs. When they showed the tight shot you can see this. Mesh all day long it seemed.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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We will see on that. I hope you are right. But I hate Fewell and this system. Did you realize the key was running mesh all night long on us trying to confuse the rookie and inexperienced LBs. When they showed the tight shot you can see this. Mesh all day long it seemed.
I hear your frustration. I hate seeing our D when Fewell's being a passive little *****, but then there's games where it's like he's flipped the switch from ****** DC to really good DC and he does a really good job. A switch that strangely coincides with the quality of our opponents passing attack. This is something I remember bitching about with every other DC so I'm going to blame Coughlin rather than assuming every DC we've had is either bi-polar or a moron, although 2 clearly were morons.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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I hear your frustration. I hate seeing our D when Fewell's being a passive little *****, but then there's games where it's like he's flipped the switch from ****** DC to really good DC and he does a really good job. A switch that strangely coincides with the quality of our opponents passing attack. This is something I remember bitching about with every other DC so I'm going to blame Coughlin rather than assuming every DC we've had is either bi-polar or a moron, although 2 clearly were morons.
Blame TC! That's where I am headed now. I like him a lot, but I am have 1 foot on fire him, and clear house. Systems gone, and Quinn gone. Start new, and let's get this thing build carefully. Defensive HC who can be DC. Then bring in a good OC who has a QB friendly system. If that's Norv Turner cool. I love the Air C!!!!!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Blame TC! That's where I am headed now. I like him a lot, but I am have 1 foot on fire him, and clear house. Systems gone, and Quinn gone. Start new, and let's get this thing build carefully. Defensive HC who can be DC. Then bring in a good OC who has a QB friendly system. If that's Norv Turner cool. I love the Air C!!!!!
I'm not that opposed to replacing TC. But if it works and we make it into the playoffs and put together some wins there's nothing we can do about it. These regular season games are frustrating but if we're winning enough of the tough games to get us into the playoffs despite losing some of this games we should've won then ultimately it's fine, frustrating at the moment but perfectly fine in the long run.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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As a person who follows the offensive side of the ball, I am tired of streaky starts. I can't remember a game where we just played well from the start to the finish. It seems every week is a mr. toads wild ride. Boom or bust system, with NO middle ground. Is anyone else tired of that game after game? I am, I had it!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Blame TC! That's where I am headed now. I like him a lot, but I am have 1 foot on fire him, and clear house. Systems gone, and Quinn gone. Start new, and let's get this thing build carefully. Defensive HC who can be DC. Then bring in a good OC who has a QB friendly system. If that's Norv Turner cool. I love the Air C!!!!!
I think Eli and our offense would be awesome with Norv as our OC. I really want to see that happen if we decide to clean house. Coughlin needs to go if we don't make the playoffs this season. Three years in a row with no playoffs in Eli's prime. That not going to cut it. Stupid coordinator hires falls on him as well. And I'm starting to believe what Rosebud is preaching about TC giving orders to go soft in "easy" games on defense. That's an ignorant and stupid approach. There are no easy or slam-dunk games in the NFL.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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As a person who follows the offensive side of the ball, I am tired of streaky starts. I can't remember a game where we just played well from the start to the finish. It seems every week is a mr. toads wild ride. Boom or bust system, with NO middle ground. Is anyone else tired of that game after game? I am, I had it!
It's very frustrating, but I'm starting to worry that we might lose a lot of our clutch identity because for all of the frustrations the giants have managed to really step up in the clutch under coughlin. So I'm not on board yet, but 3 straight years without playoffs would get me aboard the fire coughlin express. So I'm very curious to see how this plays out. I've got a good feeling that we'll manage to go 2-2 in Packers, Saints and two Dallas games, with wins against the skins and Jets. That would put us at 10-6 and depending on where those losses transpire that could be enough for the division or the wildcard and from then who knows what'll happen. We have the talent to go on a roll if Fewell's at his best and we can just circumvent the redzone.

If you couldn't tell I also have trouble leaving girls who's **** I shouldn't have to put up with...
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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nobody I was watching the game with understood what I was talking about, but I must've screamed "Why are we rushing 3 and dropping into soft zones on 3rd and long?" at least 3-5 times last night. That's not gonna cut it. But kudos to the D, they played well despite being on the field the whole damn game. What it's coming down to is:

A) Jacobs blows. No explanation needed. He's trash. I was a supporter of his until he blew his chances this year.

B) Our Oline is trash. McKenzie has finally hit the wall. Diehl is just average, Beatty has regressed hard from early this year and Baas is...well he's average.

C) While I like Ballard, Eli really needs an athletic guy who can get open quickly off the line when he doesn't have time (ala now with our **** OL).

D) We got Bradshaw for a steal. He is so damn valuable to this team in every facet of his game, it's not even funny
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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I wonder if we promote Andre Brown off the practice squad. If Bradshaw and Ware can't go Monday night, we might have to.

He could ignite the running game. You never know.
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