I started posting on the Giants MB, started a thread, its a lot of reading but I hope you guys feel similarly.
there is a lot to read, but i think it is worth it
First off, I am a young college athlete and NOT a coach. I have no coaching experience, but I do have knowledge of the intricacies and techniques involved. I love the Giants, when the giants lose it ruins my week, when they win great all week, and when they win a super bowl (especially in the fashion of super bowl 42) I am eternally grateful.
I realize all (or most) of us fans are aggravated and upset, but you must realize that the wins are only great with losses to contrast. That win versus the Patriots will give me happiness for the next 40 years and then some.
This season was doomed at the start, we were ravaged by injuries, losses in FA (our leading receiver, our starting TE, our starting DT) , and were breaking in another new DC. Even when we had Spags, our defense took awhile to adapt to the schemes. To expect playoffs from that is asking for too much. Heck we've been starting free agent and late draft picks at linebacker from the start! We have a lot to be happy about.
FA Losses: Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Barry Coffield
INJ Losses: Terrell Thomas, Jonathan Goff, Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin, Bruce Johnson.
That's 5 starters (two pro bowlers), 2 Fringe starters, and one accomplished backup
INJ during the season:
Domenik Hixon, Justin Tryon, Michael Coe, Michael Clayton, Will Beatty, Stacy Andrews, Brian Witherspoon (All on IR)
….Prince Amukamara, David Baas, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, Ahmad Bradshaw, James Brewer, Mark Herzlich, Brandon Jacobs, Mario Manningham, Spencer Paysinger, Henry Hynoski, Aaron Ross, Devin Thomas, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora (All missing multiple games)
… Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips (Both Banged up constantly and missing a game each)
When you look through our roster, it is hard to find players that weren't injured during this season. Without a doubt, we were overwhelmed by these injuries which happened to everyone and especially to our best players.
If I were the Giant Front Office, I would consider this into my equation, but there is no way I don't fire Fewell. His schemes are terrible, especially for a team that lacks linebackers and lost many starters. Secondly, our medical staff and trainers must be one of the worst in the league with the amount of injuries we have every year.
, there are a number of head coaches that have been(or will be) fired this year that would make excellent coordinators. Norv Turner, Steve Spagnuolo, Todd Haley and Jack Del Rio come to mind. Norv Turner's offensive system would be incredible for us, reverting back to a run team with placation base pass plays. Spags is ideal for us, not only because he has been a coordinator before for us or that he is familiar with the personnel we have, but because he runs man press, cover 1 shells, A gap pressures, and runs a variety of different blitz packages. We have the firepower to blitz and play man to man press with larger corners. He is also a player's coach, he is very emotional and inspires his players with his competitive drive. Haley and Del Rio both had success as coordinators, but I wouldn't want them as much because of their schemes not fitting our personnel as well.
has graced us with a season deserving of an MVP under normal circumstances. He has been our offense, made up for the faults of the entire team, and entered the realm of the elite without a doubt. He is a bright spot on the team, and no longer a liability in the pocket. He moves very well in the pocket and has developed such a presence that rivals his brother's. He may not have the strongest arm, or any mobility, but he is extremely accurate and good at putting his teammates in a position to make a play by reading the defense. We have something now that not many other franchises have, this development is worth the losses and interceptions.
replaced Steve Smith's production and then some. He is a threat in the open field, he runs creative routes and gets a lot of separation, he makes spectacular catches, and gave us miracles that other teams can only envy. We lost a pro bowl receiver, and gained another that is a threat to score on every play instead of just a possession receiver. Great body control, great hands, just needs more experience and to stop running before he catches. Eli now has two money receivers in Nicks and Cruz.
became the monster that Jerry Reese thought he'd be. Despite what (site that ranks players due to stats) ranks him as, he is easily a top 10 DE. He hasn't even developed pass rush moves for god's sake! His raw talent has been put on spotlight, and with the right coaching (our DL coach, Osi, and Tuck) and playing, he should be a premiere DE in the league. Not many teams have this either, pass rushers don't come as often as we have had, and for that we should be thankful.
has a bright future. Despite some rookie mistakes and bad coordinating, Williams has been a good overall linebacker versus the run and the pass. This guy is going to start for us, and his speed, blitzing ability, and fluidity will be very useful once he gains some coaching. He is definitely physically gifted and has a high motor just like JPP, he just needs to be put in a position to utilize them in the right way.
was a steal. Many people don't watch the offensive line, but this guy has done a number on DL's in the run game. He was a walk-on at Arkansas (also a wrestler) and played TE, FB, G, and C. He isn't as inept at pass protection, but there is no reason to bet against this guy with the effort he puts forth. Guard of the future.
impressed us all. He is basically an extra offensive lineman at 6-6 280ish, He is very slow, but he is good at route running due to his suddenness and hands (which have become inconsistent). Production-wise, he is better than Boss, but it is important to know that Boss did open up things for our receivers outside due to his speed which occupied the safeties.
is one of the best linebackers in the NFC. He neutralizes opponents TE's and RB's, he and Williams are similar and both are the reason why we didn't get killed by TE's and RB's all year. Previously quick RB's and TE's were our problem, but no more. Boley has always been a good coverage LB, but since joining us he has developed much more as a passrusher, and is above average versus the run.
showed us another flash of his incredible potential. He isn't quick off the line, he doesn't run the best routes, but he sure as hell can use his body and long arms to snag balls away from DB's. I know it's early, but I think we've got another very good receiver here.
is a very good run defender and special teamer. He isn't washed up by any means, but he isn't 100% percent yet. The longer separated from cancer he is, the better he will be. To expect him or Greg Jones to pop up unexpectedly and fill the role of MLB especially with this offseason is ridiculous. But both have a fire that the Giants like, and whether they start or are special teamers, they will have an impact.
is lightning in a bottle. How we don't play this kid more is beyond me, he is the only back we have that can take it all the way any given play. He has the speed, has some shake, but he needs to be more fluid in his cuts and more sudden. He hasn't displayed elusiveness despite the preseason, but we know its there at least.
is having growing pains and everyone shouldn't be quick to judge. When a player has an injury and misses camp there is a much bigger learning curve, couple this with the shortened offseason and not receiving the playbook until the lockout ended, there is no reason to hate on him. Looking at him out there you can tell that he is struggling to know his assignments. When you are struggling to know your assignments and have to remember and act on them in the seconds before a play. You aren't sure on your job, how do you do that with 100% effort? Apart from the results of his play recently, he played well man to man in his first two games. He has the size, speed, and fluidity to play corner, he just needs to adapt to the speed of the game.
isn't worth starting anymore. He only goes for the QB by overshooting the LT. He is capable of using other passrush moves, but the sack fumble is the easiest way to get it, and he is all about himself now. I do not want him on this team based solely on that and his attitude in the offseason. He may be utilized better with other teams, but for now he is done in NY. Get rid of him, you might get a late 2nd, or 3rd, but its worth it now.
has become a straight ahead runner only. He has hardly any change of direction despite weight loss, and now he can only use his speed and power to get yardage. Whatever happened that set him off in this stretch of productivity beats me, but I am still tired of the plays he had where he stopped at the line and did nothing. They became lost plays for Eli.
With this young talent, and Jerry Reese as our GM, we can be sure we will have a team with a bright future.
Right now, if we lose these next two games, we could wind up with a pick anywhere from 9-13ish which would be a significant improvement in draft position from 21 which would be a one and done in the playoffs. There is talent in this draft, specifically at linebacker, OL, and DL where we need some help.
If we make the playoffs there is a small chance that we do well, but it depends on our coordinator and Tuck. If Fewell runs these zone coverages and lets receivers run free we are doomed, its a free release and our personnel is not equipped to cover the middle lack of linebackers. Tuck being healthy is necessary because JPP cannot be the only person to generate a passrush, there is clearly something wrong with Tuck and either he plays through it and plays well or he shouldn't play at all.
All in all the major changes I want to see made are:
-Firing Fewell and Gilbride (gilbride should do so much better than he is)
-Firing the training and medical staff
-Hiring Spagnuolo as DC
-Hiring Norv Turner as OC (wishful thinking)
-Letting Jerry Reese do his thing in the draft
-Let our younger players play the rest of the year so we can see what we have
-Rebuilding our OL
-Trade or restructure Jacobs's deal, he is not worth that money
Originally Posted by jomo
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.
The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).
Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.
Ditto for Boss.
Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.
Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.
Losing Hixon did hurt.
Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.
Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.
Nice job with breaking it down.
You can say that Smith and Boss were meaningless now, but entering the season the general census was panic. Cruz and Ballard were nonfactors. We essentially had no TE and two WR's that hurt their QB with drops for interceptions. Boss and Smith were eli's safety valves, and although they were solid but not spectacular, they were very good players for us.
Smith's route running was second to none, he ran routes to pinpoint, and was able to get consistent separation, theres no wonder why he had over 100 receptions. I hope we resign him because Manningham will not be worth the money in all likelihood.
Boss had pretty good speed and caught balls and took hits (many gave us crucial first downs off of penalties) that had to make fans love him. He wasn't the greatest run blocker, never really set an edge, but his speed and height allowed our receivers to do work by occupying the safeties and we simply don't have that on our roster right now.
Technically, Spags wouldn't be new. He had a lot of these players on his defense, and his ability to play to his personnel's strength would alone be a dominating factor to picking Spags over Fewell. Zimmer is the only other DC I would want that could possibly be available, and he would most likely need to be signed as a HC.
As much as people like to hate on Goff, he was a leader and underrated by most people. I never really liked him because I wanted a freakishly athletic linebacker. But he was a monster against the run, great power and above average instincts. His pass coverage was average, but he wasn't as terrible as people want to believe, the backs that he was forced to cover gave Pierce fits in the past, and he did as well if not better than him.
Sintim was a sad coincidence. He never should've been playing as a 4-3 OLB. He simply didn't have the fluidity or agility to keep up in coverage. But man, he could rush the passer. If he wound up in a 3-4 i think it wouldve been an entirely different story, he played in a complex Al Groh system in virginia and racked up double digit sacks (mightve been the sack leader one year in the NCAA or pretty damn close). He had two bad injuries and was out of position, just bad luck.
Cofield was not just another DT for us. He got rush, we are severely missing interior rush this year. Him and Robbins were both well rounded DT's that were somewhat average in all aspects, but even having minimal rush mattered alot, now QB's can step up in the pocket and see over the line for easy throws in the middle. A gap pressure means a lot, it leads to alot of checkdowns and interceptions off of sideline throws (ball has to travel a longer distance) and sailed balls in the middle by not getting enough on a throw because the QB can't step up and plant. This is another reason why FEWELL SUCKS, no A gap pressure (spags loved to blitz the A gap).
Agree on Hixon, terrible field position off every kickoff and most punts.
Losing backup players still hurts, you cannot honestly say that it doesn't because you don't have full force of your roster. In a battle of fruition that the nfl has become, injuries to ANYONE matters. Coe and Clayton were also good special teamers, and with a special team like ours, we need all the help we can get.
Lol, Cruz was essentially a rookie this season, let him be! He's trying to do too much, running before he catches it, but its not like receivers don't do this. hakeem did this all the time, and has become a lot better. The drop nicks had was because of the sun, he needs to wear a visor.
he is clearly in the light, he probably could see the shadow of the ball, but not the ball itself. This is hard for a receiver because you cannot locate the tip and see the rotation. If you don't see either, you can't depend on using your hands which is why he was trying to catch it with his body. It's just an unfortunate thing that could've been avoided with a visor.
Completely agree on PF.
Originally Posted by JMFP2
Sorry for the late reply. As you said, that was a pretty long post, and took me some time to get through it all.
I don't agree with everything you've said, but that was a great post. Your opinions are clearly presented and supported with information or examples.
I'd love to see Spags return, but if the Eagles want to land him, I see them pulling Reese's pants down again in the offseason.
I'd like to see Del Rio as DC if Spags is not available. I think LB is a huge defensive need next season....it's should be Reese's number one concern.
I like your idea on Norv Turner, espeically with a guy as bright and gifted as Eli at QB.
At this stage of his career, Eli is capable of running the same sort of offense that Aikman ran under Turner.
The key is getting some new talent on the offensive line, and someone to replace Jacobs and Bradshaw next year.
Thank you, and thank you and the rest of you all for giving me legitimate responses instead of what other people do and give out immature comments or personal attacks.
I did hear rumors about eagles and spags, but we are at a point where we can't afford NOT to get him back. He is the ideal person for our defense. They need a kick in the ass and he does that, he knows how to motivate players. I would throw money, a future HC job, and keys to our personnel choices (to a certain degree like we did before).
As far as Del Rio, I am not as familiar with his schemes, but I know he likes to blitz so I have no problem with that. If you are not going to be aggressive then you are giving the offense free yardage and free first downs, prolonging a drive.
LB is really a huge need, I think we ignored it because we saw the transition to a passing league, but the problem is, you still need LB's who can line players up, who can diagnose a play or what the defense has to do to stay in position. Pierce was great at that, we need someone like that, a leader or quarterback of the defense. I like Vontaze Burfict, although he's a headcase, players feed off of him and he delivers difference making plays. He doesn't play controlled and sometimes gets himself out of position, but there is talent there that isn't in any other prospect i've seen this year.
Turner is ideal, he is a QB and WR friendly OC, and runs a system based on run. He and Spags both would fit us like gloves. I'm tired of Coughlin's Cover 2 coordinators, we aren't that kind of team, and i don't like the scheme itself because you are relying on quarterbacks trying to take too much. Its predictable and opposing OC's eat this up all day.
I agree with new offensive linemen too. McKenzie is done, he is average in all aspects now, even run blocking where he was very good two years ago. Diehl has taken a few steps back, Snee too. I think what would be best right now is to move Diehl to RT, keep Snee at RG. They already have a good relationship and work well together, so it won't be hard for them to gel next to eachother.
Next I would get rid of any hope I had for Beatty, he was sub par in all aspects this year, and I think he was alot of the reason why Diehl looked soo bad.
Petrus should be starting at LG, unless we decide to go out and sign a FA. Petrus is very good at run blocking and I don't think he will be a liability in pass blocking
Two prospects I really like are Peter Konz C from Wisconsin, and Riley Reiff from Iowa. Both could start early in their careers, both are great run blockers.
a starting line of:
would create a much improved run blocking line. I don't like Baas, he is very average, and Seubert was much better than him for us IMO.
Originally Posted by netplus
Originally Posted by BallinNY
<P>a starting line of:
Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.
Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)
Diehl is fine, he has strayed from the pro caliber player we had a few years ago, he is definitely not a LT. He doesn't handle speed rushers well, and because of this he sometimes over compensates and gets knocked off balance by a bull rush. He is not a natural LT, but he would probably be very good at RT.
At RT he would most likely encounter slower passrushers, but better run defenders. This is an easier matchup for a former guard that is forced to take on DT's. Imo this would be even more ideal for us with the emergence of Petrus and so that the right side of the line along with a pulling left guard can be consistent for running yardage.
I will do DB's in a few I have to do something.
All in all, the DB's are being misused and because of the lack of A and B gap pressure (see my previous posts in this thread), they are having to cover crossing routes while the QB's are able to step into throws, which makes it very hard for them to undercut those routes for potential interceptions or a deflection.
Antrel Rolle, we spent a lot of money on him but we aren't getting the playmaking ability we have seen. The plays where he is lethal is when he is in single high safety, which we rarely are able to use him in because he needs to cover the slot (our linebackers definitely cannot do this) or the runningback. He is a ballhawk, i suggest we use him that way or in blitz packages where we did last year. He is much more talented than his performance this year, and i attribute most of that to him not being used as he should. If you remember correctly, he did a pretty good job against Wes Welker as a SAFETY! that means a lot, and should tell you he is very very good. Now he does miss tackles and gives up plays, but any DB does that, especially if we aren't getting enough pressure with the front 4. He isn't extremely fast, but is quick, has good ball skills, and is instinctive.
Kenny Phillips isn't what we thought he'd be, but he is a pretty damn good player nonetheless. Very good in run support, covers a lot of ground as a deep safety, but isn't as instinctive as we thought. He is still growing as a player, but he has that constant knee injury that hinders his play. He's the most humble of our DB's, a good guy, and I am rooting for the light bulb in his head to really click. He isn't as agile as Rolle, probably a little faster, less instinctive, but he is more consistent versus the run.
Corey Webster is a top corner in this league. Yes, he has let up plays and touchdowns, but a corner without a rush is in deep water. Webster has become a lot more fluid, making it possible for him to overcome not having elite speed or agility. He's very physical, but very smart. This is why we see him being able to play with receivers despite Fewell's *** defense, he has more experience and was able to develop his game mentally and physically.
Terrell Thomas was a key loss for us not only because he was a starting corner, but he was a major turnover magnet. Turnovers are what fuel the Cover 2 defense. You are allowing receivers to run free and waiting for the quarterback to make an arrant throw. Thomas was very good at reacting to the ball in the air, he isn't very fast, but his quickness and play recognition are what made him one of the best corners in the league last season in that aspect. He however is a liability versus man, which is why the idea of him being used as a pseudo linebacker (as grant is being used now) was presented so that we could use him in a way that would be best fitted for his skillset. I am afraid that the ACL injury will most likely ruin him because of the suddenness needed to make these plays will most likely be lost. We'll see, different people recover in different ways, some worse or better.
Aaron Ross confuses the hell out of me. He hasn't had major injuries, but a bunch of nagging smaller ones, and many hamstring injuries. He is probably best fit for press man, but he hasn't been as physical as we thought he would, he doesn't get sufficient jams off the line, at least on a consistent basis. He is quick, fast, rangy, but he isn't as fluid as thomas or webster. He isn't mentally the player they are, but he has the ability of being a very good starting corner in the league. He is actually ok in most coverages, but bites on double moves and allows alot of separation. He's 29 i think, probably not worth keeping unless he comes back for cheaper than starter pay.
Deon Grant saved us this year in the secondary as far as I'm concerned. He plays very disciplined, which hurts us sometimes against players like Vick, but he is not anything more than average in most categories. Classic veteran player, good signing and true giants imo. He should be our leader on defense, he speaks with thought and plays with emotion.
Prince Amukamara is not a failure, people who say otherwise are dumb. He has a skillset that we are seeing more and more in the NFL being highly touted. He has size, speed, and although he doesn't have great ball skills, he is what we call an all around corner. He is very impressive versus the run (as are Thomas and Webster) and shows great ability to mirror the receiver. Problems he has are flipping his hips, and that is just about the only problem i have with him. He is fluid, but not comfortable in the position just yet. You have to remember that he has only been playing cornerback for 3 years prior to now. Regarding his performances of recent, you should take them with a grain of salt. He is playing with receivers in mid-season form as a rookie corner in preseason form that missed a training camp, and did not have the playbook until the lockout ended. If you have read my previous posts, you see my argument that he probably doesn't know his assignments well. If any of you have played football, even at the highschool level, you know that it is hard to play 100% effort without having your assignments down pat. He has had many plays against very good receivers, and some not so good plays. the plays that you see that are positive you rarely remember or actually saw, but the bad you do because they are obvious. Judgement is not final on him.
Bruce Johnson was a big loss imo, very underrated. He had elite speed, good quickness, closing speed, not very physical, but he was developing well. I hope we sign him again, unfortunate injury.
Coe and Tryon aren't very good, but not THAT bad, but i do not anticipate either being legitimate starters or contributing to this team as more than nickel corners or special teamers.
We typically don't get premiere free agents, spending all that money on players holds up alot of our cap and makes it hard to resign our own talent. Our own talent is more crucial because getting a free agent means that we don't know if they will be able to translate their talents to our system. Free agents
Like I proposed in my first post, losing these two games could get us maybe even a top 10 pick. Give Jerry something to work with, making the playoffs with the coordinators, injuries, and attitude we have now is pointless. All it takes is one or two good drafts to return a team to a playoff powerhouse, especially with the players we have in place already.
Diehl and Grant are two players that have been very good for us, I don't think you can say that Grant has regressed, individually he is still as good as he was in past seasons. Diehl isn't showing the power in the run game as much as he used to, which is something that really alarms me. I do think that Beatty sucking had something to do with that, but you're right in saying that he hasn't performed as well. Next season i hope he's an RT