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Old 04-07-2012, 11:56 AM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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I know it's fan talk. It's basically me saying I feel confident enough that if he's taken at 32 (if he's there) that the scouts and coaching staff feel the same way about him as I do.

If we can't have fan talk here, then there's no point of even having this forum. Bc none of us know anything about what goes on in the building. We can only speculate.
To an extent, we can talk about personnel, and scheme and how they are utilized. You and I do a good job of bypassing the normal fan BS that you read on a MB. I don't see it as a problem with you. When you do bring your A game, it's a good game. I am just saying in general, we don't know about the lazy and such part without access to the kid. That's what I meant by that.

Also, I would even say out of the people on this board, you're one of the very, very few who actually talk football, and not the normal fan talk nonsense. So that's a credit to you even then you like the other side of the ball.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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To an extent, we can talk about personnel, and scheme and how they are utilized. You and I do a good job of bypassing the normal fan BS that you read on a MB. I don't see it as a problem with you. When you do bring your A game, it's a good game. I am just saying in general, we don't know about the lazy and such part without access to the kid. That's what I meant by that.

Also, I would even say out of the people on this board, you're one of the very, very few who actually talk football, and not the normal fan talk nonsense. So that's a credit to you even then you like the other side of the ball.
Oh I know it wasn't a shot at me. Don't worry, I was just saying in general.

Stephen Hill to me, is like JPP in the sense that he can easily bust as well as easily become a stud. He needs to go to the right team to succeed. I think we're one of the best teams in the league at developing talent and we have a very good program in doing so, which is why for our team I'm a big fan of getting the athletes that we can mold into good players.

That approach doesn't work with every team, or for every individual for that matter. That's why, when I look at a workout warrior, I look for for the following:

1. Good character/work ethic
-We cannot say with certainty that Hill has this, but all indications by ppl with sources says he's a model citizen with great work ethic and no character concerns. So that's a good sign.

2. Does he flash potential?
-Hill clearly does. He made tough catches in college, gives full effort all the time, is a willing blocker, and I've seen him absolutely beast it. At the combine he ran the route tree brilliantly, and gave a lot of effort running his routes (more than a lot of guys there) and made great hand catches.

If he has the character, motor and work ethic to go with the measurables, I'm willing to gamble on the workout warrior. I think we have the locker room and coaching staff to develop a workout warrior if he has the right personality traits.

The route tree is a little overrated. Maclin didn't run any pro style routes in college either and isn't half the athlete that Hill is. He's doing just fine. And with Hill developing as our 3, he won't have to be "the guy" from day one, he can take his time to develop.

And I'm sure he can't be any worse than Mario. I view him in a worst case scenario, as a taller faster version of Mario who can run down the field and catch 2 big passes every now and then.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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And before you say it bc I know it's coming, yes I'm very aware that our system is much more complex and our route combinations/tree is very different.

Even with our complexity, I'm ok with taking him bc I feel he can develop with time. He's not a guy I expect to come in and beast from day 1, he's a long term investment to me.

Which is fine.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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And before you say it bc I know it's coming, yes I'm very aware that our system is much more complex and our route combinations/tree is very different.

Even with our complexity, I'm ok with taking him bc I feel he can develop with time. He's not a guy I expect to come in and beast from day 1, he's a long term investment to me.

Which is fine.
That's the key part. Route tree is all fine and good. I am not worried about that when it comes to us. I care about the many, many adjustments in the form of option and choice routes. That's what would keep me up all night. Potential is there, I agree. But can that potential be translated to our system? I'd bring him in and see if he can be taught in limited amount of time, and go up to the board, and remember what I taught him.

I like his potential a lot, but WR is a very tricky thing especially in our system. If we ran another system, I'd say sure, bring any guy down, and let's coach him up and see what we have. But within the confines of our system, which you are aware of, I am very skeptical of new toys that come in the form of WR.

If we draft him round 1 then I am sure the staff and scouts think he could be a good fit. Then let him play Z, Nicks X, and have Cruz and JJ be F and H respectively. In a 2 X 2 set, I think we'd have a deadly personnel package there.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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to be fair, if Mario started to get somewhat of a hang in our offense, and cruz seems to have picked it up after 2 years pretty well, I feel like Hill wouldn't have too much trouble, especially if he does have football smarts
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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He'll be BPA. He's not Barden. Barden is slow off the line, lazy, and soft. This guy has none of those traits.
That's just not true about Barden at all.

Anyway Trattou will be getting the snaps most likely. He looked good in preseason and even played a little during the Redskins game in Week 1. We do need to have a white DE.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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That's just not true about Barden at all.

Anyway Trattou will be getting the snaps most likely. He looked good in preseason and even played a little during the Redskins game in Week 1. We do need to have a white DE.
Sash and Herzy are currently the only whites on our defense, castefootball must be fuming!
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Sash and Herzy are currently the only whites on our defense, castefootball must be fuming!
Haha. There might be a protest at the Timex center.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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That's just not true about Barden at all.

Anyway Trattou will be getting the snaps most likely. He looked good in preseason and even played a little during the Redskins game in Week 1. We do need to have a white DE.
How is it not true?

He is slow off the line. You jam him and make him re-accelerate and he comes out of his breaks very slow.

He is lazy, and soft, he's in Coughlin's doghouse for a reason. Him riding the bike all summer when he could have gutted it out and played did not please Coughlin.

Yes, if you're a good player you can ride that bike. When you're a guy trying to make the team, and show you can become a legit #3, you don't have that luxury. Suck it up and get out there.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Haha. There might be a protest at the Timex center.
I think we have less than 15 white people on our team....holy ****
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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How is it not true?

He is slow off the line. You jam him and make him re-accelerate and he comes out of his breaks very slow.

He is lazy, and soft, he's in Coughlin's doghouse for a reason. Him riding the bike all summer when he could have gutted it out and played did not please Coughlin.

Yes, if you're a good player you can ride that bike. When you're a guy trying to make the team, and show you can become a legit #3, you don't have that luxury. Suck it up and get out there.
He is not lazy and soft. That's just ridiculous and you are not at practice and have no idea. He's not in Coughlin's doghouse and was widely praised in camps as one of the harder working players. It's fine if you think he's slow off the line but the lazy and soft comments are a joke.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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He is not lazy and soft. That's just ridiculous and you are not at practice and have no idea. He's not in Coughlin's doghouse and was widely praised in camps as one of the harder working players. It's fine if you think he's slow off the line but the lazy and soft comments are a joke.
How is he not in Coughlin's doghouse? He was benched and basically inactivated after he was awful vs the Jets and didn't even suit up for the entire playoff run. And he was perfectly healthy. How is that not being in a dog house?

If we draft Hill I'm willing to give Barden this year as his final shot. But this truly is his final chance. I know you like him, but the guy has run out of chances.

If he can't step it up in this year, he needs to get cut. There's no use for an oft injured #4 WR who can't play special teams. It's a waste of a roster spot.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I had one growing up, but now don't really have one. I try to keep no emotional attachments which I feels gives me a better perspective on the game because I am not letting emotion dictate how I feel. Anyone and everyone can be replaced is the mentality I keep so this way I am not having 5 favorites and sad when they leave.
*shrug* It's part of being a fan for me. Sure it means I'll be a little disappointed when Eli's no longer our QB, but when that happens it'll probably be in the best interests of the team. Anyone can be replaced, but that doesn't mean that they're going to get replaced right away. Hell my favorite players don't always play for my favorite team, I'm a knicks fan but some of my favorite players in the NBA are Dirk Nowitzki, Ricky Rubio, Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Omer Asik, Manu and Danilo Gallinari...I think I just realized that I am a terrible racist...my point was it's not just about playing for my favorite team and being the best guys for our team to succeed, I've had plenty of favorite players that I hoped wouldn't start because ti would be better for the team, didn't mean I didn't have love for the guy...seriously still a little blown away by how quickly I was able to spit out 6 white guys in the NBA and one of the whitest black guys the league has ever had. Worst part is I didn't bring in some other white boys that I'm a big fan of from other teams like Love, Pekovic, Korver and Scalabrine...
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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*shrug* It's part of being a fan for me. Sure it means I'll be a little disappointed when Eli's no longer our QB, but when that happens it'll probably be in the best interests of the team. Anyone can be replaced, but that doesn't mean that they're going to get replaced right away. Hell my favorite players don't always play for my favorite team, I'm a knicks fan but some of my favorite players in the NBA are Dirk Nowitzki, Ricky Rubio, Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Omer Asik, Manu and Danilo Gallinari...I think I just realized that I am a terrible racist...my point was it's not just about playing for my favorite team and being the best guys for our team to succeed, I've had plenty of favorite players that I hoped wouldn't start because ti would be better for the team, didn't mean I didn't have love for the guy...seriously still a little blown away by how quickly I was able to spit out 6 white guys in the NBA and one of the whitest black guys the league has ever had. Worst part is I didn't bring in some other white boys that I'm a big fan of from other teams like Love, Pekovic, Korver and Scalabrine...
Haha! It's ok bud, I noticed it awhile ago. You love you some white basketball players. Especially the European ones.

Actually, I think you love European basketball players in general, regardless of race.

I'm still upset that we couldn't get Rubio btw. I still love that guy.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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How is he not in Coughlin's doghouse? He was benched and basically inactivated after he was awful vs the Jets and didn't even suit up for the entire playoff run. And he was perfectly healthy. How is that not being in a dog house?

If we draft Hill I'm willing to give Barden this year as his final shot. But this truly is his final chance. I know you like him, but the guy has run out of chances.

If he can't step it up in this year, he needs to get cut. There's no use for an oft injured #4 WR who can't play special teams. It's a waste of a roster spot.
He was benched because he doesn't play ST and everyone was finally back healthy.

I agree this is his definitely his final year. His contract is up after this year and if he shows nothing then of course they'll let him walk. Besides the Jets game he did flash a really good set of hands. Some of the catches he made he just went for the ball and grabbed a few out of the DB's hands. In the Jets game he didn't do that but at least he was open enough where Eli saw it fit to go his way.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I have some weird favorite Giants. Besides Eli I think Webster and Linval Joseph are my current favorites.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I have some weird favorite Giants. Besides Eli I think Webster and Linval Joseph are my current favorites.
For me it's gotta be Tuck, and after this year I've got quite the mancrush on JPP and Williams
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I like a lot of our players. I think it's harder for me to name players I dislike.

Beckum
Barden
Baas
Beatty
Jernigan

I think that's pretty much it.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
OSUGiants17
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I like a lot of our players. I think it's harder for me to name players I dislike.

Beckum
Barden
Baas
Beatty
Jernigan

I think that's pretty much it.
What do you have against B's!?!?!? Huh?
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Haha! It's ok bud, I noticed it awhile ago. You love you some white basketball players. Especially the European ones.

Actually, I think you love European basketball players in general, regardless of race.

I'm still upset that we couldn't get Rubio btw. I still love that guy.
Yeah, Dirk makes sense since he's a fellow German, the only one who's any good at basketball, Ricky and Gallo make sense to, I watched them play great as kids over in europe before coming to the NBA and they have the traits that are most important to me in basketball and hockey for players with the skillset to succeed, they have great work ethic, are mentally tough and have great awareness for what's going on on the court. Plus they've made me fans of the teams they play for since I started watching them a lot more this year.

Hell I have clear reasons for liking all of those players, Duncan, Nahs and Manu cause they're amazing and Asik because Stacy King is my 1b favorite announcer in any sport, Clyde being 1a, and not only is "asik and destroy" when of the best calls in sports, but he calls Asik out for not palying strong, which is what I've been jokingly saying about Asik for two years now. If I ever get rich the first thing I'm doing is hiring Stacy and Clyde to personally announce a knicks-bulls game live for me n my friends.

Still it's a crazy trend to just throw out a few of my favs and for all of them to be the whitest kids on the block. Makes sense as I grew up being the token whatever it was, white kid with my friends, not rich kid at school, white kid on my hockey team, boy with my other group of friends, but damn.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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What do you have against B's!?!?!? Huh?
C cups or bigger. Whaaaaat
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
OSUGiants17
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C cups or bigger. Whaaaaat
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Eli, Ahmad, Cruz, Nicks, Barden, Beatty, Petrus, Snee, JPP, Joseph, Boley, Webster, Kenny and Tuck are my favorite current giants. So at least I'm only half racist with football players...
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Kenny is my underrated favorite player. He's so damn good sitting back there and ball hawking. Most fans don't realize it bc what he does won't show up on TV, but man is he good.

Corey is a boss. I love DBs.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I like pretty much all of our players but I do have a tier system. I love Osi, Tuck, Jpp, and a lot of others as well. As BBD said it's easier for me to name players that I don't like and Beckum is the president of that group.
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