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Old 08-20-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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All we have going forward in the secondary is prince and hosley...
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I mean, if we have a stud CB and a great #2 then that's a big step. Safety is a huge issue, though.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:21 AM    (permalink
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I like hosley a lot but I think he's better off suited in the slot
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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You never know when a good FA CB will pop up also. We have a lot of money coming off the books and I know we have more guys to pay but we could always fit something in under the cap.

I agree with Scotty that Hosley is most likely just someone whol plays slot CB.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Diehl out for 6 weeks after having thumb surgery.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Hosley is absolutely a slot CB. I do like his speed and he definitely has potential, but for now he is a slot CB.

Who are our big FAs next off season, again? Nicks, Myers, Stevie and Andre Brown? If we let Nicks walk cause Randle steps up this year and Nicks is still dealing with injuries that frees up a lot of cap to go towards JPP and possibly a free agent CB(Shields, Tillman, DRC, etc.). I'm getting a little ahead of myself though
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Diehl out for 6 weeks after having thumb surgery.

Hate to do this when one of our players gets injured, but
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JPP enjoys raping offensive tackles.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Yeah honestly Diehl shouldn't even make the team. He's that bad. But they'll NEVER do Diehl dirty like that. He's on the final year of his contract, he'll play out this year and they won't re-sign him. That's how the Giants have been handling all of our key veterans.

I know this is messed up to say, but I just hope he has nagging injuries that prevent him from playing much this season and we just quietly and casually relegate him to backup/blocking TE duties this year.
I don't buy that. Diehl came back to compete and help the team any way he can.

He has beaten out the younger guys at this point.

I wonder if the coaches are condidering Brewer and/or Mosely at LG?
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Hate to do this when one of our players gets injured, but
I find this attitude very poor. An injury to a team mate should never be a cause for celebration and fans shouldback our players
.
We have plenty of young guys in the system and they haven't been able beat Diehl out. Sure Diehl needs to improve but he is what Flaherty and co consider our best option at this point. If the younger guys were a better option they would be playing.

Diehl has been a workman here for eleven years. We have won two superbowls wirh Diehl stepping in at left tackle. Sure he isnt flashy, but I think he deserves the respect of fans.

I also think I Diehl has earned the right to finish his career on his terms.

Diehl like all Giants need to prove it on the field. Let's not forget Diehl has gotten tge job done when the chips are down.

Injuries are part of football, but to me hoping or wishing for injuries on your team is pathetic and the idea that injuries somehow improves your team is insane.

I know mist if the guys here are a grest bunch but I am over people celebrating Diehl getting hurt (mainly eksewhere). I had to say something.

I know injuries open up opportunity for players, but that is entirely what training camp and preseason is all about - an opportunity for players to prove what they can do.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Hosley is absolutely a slot CB. I do like his speed and he definitely has potential, but for now he is a slot CB.

Who are our big FAs next off season, again? Nicks, Myers, Stevie and Andre Brown? If we let Nicks walk cause Randle steps up this year and Nicks is still dealing with injuries that frees up a lot of cap to go towards JPP and possibly a free agent CB(Shields, Tillman, DRC, etc.). I'm getting a little ahead of myself though
From the top of my head, our major freeagents next year include

Carr, Nicks, Murphy, Myers, Diehl, Snee (player option), Boothe? Tuck, Tracy, Joseph, Rogers, Rivers, Connor, Paysinger, Williams, Herzlich, Curry, Bosworth, Webster, Ross, Brown, Mundy, DeIssie?

Not sure on a couple of them but it's something like this
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Diehl out for 6 weeks after having thumb surgery.
So our OL is looking stellar thus far

Beatty...?? - Boothe-Snee-Pugh


Mosley, Brewer.. Or Boothe back to LG and Cordle at C?

Snee better stay healthy!!!!!!!! If not, we have issues.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I could see signing a vet soon or when cuts are made.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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I find this attitude very poor. An injury to a team mate should never be a cause for celebration and fans shouldback our players
.
We have plenty of young guys in the system and they haven't been able beat Diehl out. Sure Diehl needs to improve but he is what Flaherty and co consider our best option at this point. If the younger guys were a better option they would be playing.

Diehl has been a workman here for eleven years. We have won two superbowls wirh Diehl stepping in at left tackle. Sure he isnt flashy, but I think he deserves the respect of fans.

I also think I Diehl has earned the right to finish his career on his terms.

Diehl like all Giants need to prove it on the field. Let's not forget Diehl has gotten tge job done when the chips are down.

Injuries are part of football, but to me hoping or wishing for injuries on your team is pathetic and the idea that injuries somehow improves your team is insane.

I know mist if the guys here are a grest bunch but I am over people celebrating Diehl getting hurt (mainly eksewhere). I had to say something.

I know injuries open up opportunity for players, but that is entirely what training camp and preseason is all about - an opportunity for players to prove what they can do.
I can understand your distaste, but to me, the team, the NY Giants, is the most important.

While it sucks for Diehl personally to get a relatively minor injury, and not be able to play, I feel it will almost certainly be beneficial to the team.

Anything that makes the Giants instantly better, I will feel happy about. Of course I'm not happy that one of our players gets injured, not for him personally.

But when those two sides conflict, I will put the team support first. I support the NY Giants, not the players on it (if that makes any sense).

For example I hate Perry Fewell, and I hated previous poor players like CC Brown. Do I hate them as persons? No, because how could I? I don't know them. Do I dislike them in their work capacities because in my mind they weaken the team I support? Damn straight. I feel that's my prerogative.

So I'm sorry if I offended any of you guys celebrating Diehls injury. It was not meant as a celebration that the person David Diehl suffered a personal blow. It was meant as a celebration of the fact that our offense, the NY Giants offense, will most likely be better off for it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I think we'll survive at LB. What did we win our Super Bowls with? Kawika Mitchell, Reggier Torbor...Gerris freakin' Wilkerson? Seriously, some of those guys even went on to get good deals after us and vanished. LBs are overrated. I know it's a beloved position for our franchise but LBs aren't that important anymore. You can have a great defense without them.

I like our CB situation going forward. Same with DT/DE. That leaves safety to really sure up on. To me that's a first round need next year.

I think if the offense produces like we think it will (and converts TDs in the red zone) and we play top 20 defense we should easily be a playoff team. I really feel like our division will struggle this year. Eagles will probably suck, Redskins who knows, and Dallas will be good but even they are far from elite.\

And, as we all know, once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.
There's so many things wrong with this i don't even know where to begin.

First and foremost, we run a zone defense. The middle of the field is defended by linebackers in our defense. How exactly does having ****** linebackers not drastically effect our pass coverage again?

In pass coverage, the flats are considered the hardest area to cover. Guess who covers the flats? Linebackers.

Our run defense sucks. Who makes tackles in the run game? Linebackers.

It's incredibly inaccurate to say linebackers aren't important to defense. Especially with the emergence of the read option and the 2 TE offense. Linebackers value has skyrocketed bc of this.

What we did in the past is the past. The past is dated. Our strategy on defense is dated. We built a defense designed to stop pocket passers and offenses that throw it all over the field from the pocket.

Offense has evolved since then. The read option has emerged. The 2 way TE who's a mismatch on the field has emerged. You can't use the same strategy on defense anymore, it's dated. Why do you think our defense has sucked balls so much? It's a dated strategy.

In 2011 we won with offense and pass rush. Our defense was 27th in the league. You can't tell me that our strategy on defense is sound when the last time we ranked in the top 10 on defense was 2008. That was 6 years ago.

The best defenses in the league have great linebacking corps.

The assumption that DBs cover, DLs rush, and LBs just fill the gaps is not accurate at all. You can't put garbage out there at linebacker and have a good defense. Not with the current trends on offense.

And definitely not when you run a predominately zone defense.

In our division alone we have Vick and RGIII. Who the hell is going to chase those guys? Linebackers. And our linebackers blow. You gotta win the division first. It's going to be difficult to win the division when you have 2 QBs in our own division that's going to run all over your linebackers faces.

Our strategy is dated and needs to change.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Combo plays are becoming popular in the NFL now. The best way to run a no huddle with combo packages is having multiple TEs on the field who can line up in a variety of ways. Chip Kelly is the master of this.

So how do you defend this up tempo style that can line 4 wide on one play and 3 TE on another and run it down your throat? VERSATILE LBS.

Linebackers. Linebackers linebackers linebackers. With up tempo offenses become a league wide trend, versatile personnel who can line up in a variety of formations and run and pass equally out of those formations while keeping defensive personnel on the field, you NEED linebackers to counter this.

Linebackers are important guys. Watch the 2 gap defense re-emerge bc of the read option, watch linebackers increase in value as a result as well. Think forward. The game is evolving, you have to adjust with it.

What we did in the past won't work in the future.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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And for those who don't know what combo plays are, there's a lot of information online about it. I suggest googling it and reading up on it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I can understand your distaste, but to me, the team, the NY Giants, is the most important.

While it sucks for Diehl personally to get a relatively minor injury, and not be able to play, I feel it will almost certainly be beneficial to the team.

Anything that makes the Giants instantly better, I will feel happy about. Of course I'm not happy that one of our players gets injured, not for him personally.
.[
I do understand where you are coming from

However implying the coaches are not putting the players that give us the best chances to succeed implies we have incompetent coaches and I certainly don't believe that is the case with Flaherty.

Of course they will play the guys that give us the best chance to do what we want to do. There are always a lot if factors in play including intangible and group dynamics etc.

I guess the gist of what I am saying is calm down and see how we peform in the season.
All players have good and bad games and you can be sure the players and coaching staff are working hard.

Also trust in the team, Coughlin's giants aways start well (though it isn't always pretty). The worst start our team has had is 5-2. So let's see how they play
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I tell you what guys, I've been studying Jim Cordle lately, and I think we have our future C in house with him.

He's pretty good. I think we have our OTs of the future with Beatty (who quietly has turned into a really really good LT), Pugh at RT, and I think Cordle can be our future C.

That leaves the 2 G positions as potential holes in the future. I think Mosely has potential at RG. I still need to review some tape and check him out before I can give you a solid answer with him.

But if Mosely shows promise, I think our future OL can be in pretty good shape.

The offense as a whole is going to be set for awhile I think. We just need to overhaul the defense, the back 7 in particular.

I only like Prince and Hosely in the secondary moving forward, and we need an entirely new LB corp outside of JWill, whos also injury prone.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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He got demoted as soon as they saw the tape of him in the Colts game. Not exactly good. Needs more consistency.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Oh lord, BBD. Yes LBs are not as important when compared relatively to the importance of CBs, Safeties, DTs, and DEs. LBs are last in importance (that is of course not to say they aren't important, though). I also think it's funny you're citing how they are incredibly important now with the development of the read option.

A couple things are flawed about this. First, the exposure to the read option is EXCEPTIONALLY low. We have basically seen it be prominent for one year. Defensive coordinators will adjust. They always do. Unlike with the passing game, there is no huge advantage given to the offense for running the read option. DBs are at a huge disadvantage because of the rules now. This is why the run game has died in the NFL. Why run the ball when the rules significantly favor passing it?

Also, guess who won the Super Bowl? A team with a pure pocket passer. When is the last time a team with a QB run heavy team won the Super Bowl? Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers certainly don't count. The read option comes with huge risks too, such as putting your QB in a position to be injured. And a lot of QBs are not built like RBs to withstand the punishment. Kaep is a stick, RG III isn't huge and already has multiple knee issues, Vick is a walking injury, and Wilson is undersized. The only guy I would be scared of is Cam Newton, but he's more of a pocket passer anyway.

And also, using the 49ers as an example, how much did their LBs do for them their entire playoff run? They got DESTROYED on defense for much of that playoff run. Why? They couldn't get to the passer and their DBs were exposed. They won because their offense was clicking at the time.

You're too much of a reactionist. So lets ignore the fact that we are one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past 4-5 years simply because of ONE year of the read option. That is one of the dumber things I've seen you post, BBD. And please, covering the flats has ALWAYS been an issue. This is not new. Yet you ignore the fact I stated that we've won Super Bowls DESPITE garbage LBs. Saying that is irrelevant is incredibly foolish.

I'm not saying don't bother drafting and trying to get LBs, but if we have holes at safety and other premium positions on defense then hell yes, LB can suck it. Now, if a potential STUD LB, ala Von Miller or Patrick Willis is available, of course you take them. They are great players. But I'd rather have a good DB/DE any day over a good LB.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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BBD taken to the

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Old 08-23-2013, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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First off Kaepernick went to the SB as a read option qb with only 10 starts. So yeah. There's that.

Plus the read option doesn't effect defenses? Do you even know what the read option is? The read option offers a gigantic advantage. It slows the rush down. It basically negates the pass rush.

This is why it's difficult talking about football in such generalities, bc so many wildly inaccurate statements get thrown around. The league evolved into a pass rushing league. Teams have one gapped almost exclusively, looking for penetration on defense. Defenses have gotten smaller in the front 7 to defend the pass. It's turned into a pass rushing pass defense league to counter the passing offenses that have dominated the league the past 4 years.

So how have offenses evolved? The read option. The read option destroys the pass rush. It forces you to read and react. It forces you to 2 gap. It forces edge rushers to play contain. That leads to a slurried pass rush bc everyone is playing contain and 2 gapping to account for the extra gap created by the qb.

And it forces you to play more single high safety looks which opens up the vertical passing game.

Before you talk about how the read option is just a trend I strongly recommend you read up on it and understand it more. Bc it's not a trend it's highly effective and will only gather more steam.

My point is you can't base your blueprint on past success. You have to adjust to the evolution of the game. The game has changed man. Our system is dated. I don't have to say **** other than 27th and 31st. That was our defensive rank the past 2 years. Don't tell me our system works. It doesn't.

Yeah we've been successful and I'm grateful for that. But people who rest on past success are doomed to never repeat it. You have to adjust. The Giants have to adjust their strategy on defense. You can't just completely ignore the 2nd level of the defense anymore.

The one thing that I cannot stand, that annoys me like no other is breaking down defenses into sections and generalizing the importance of the positions. That's incredibly inaccurate. Defense is fluid. Every component matters. If you have a duck, it doesn't matter where that duck is, it will get exposed.

Individual talent is more important than positional importance. SF was one of the best defenses in the league the past 2 years and they have a terrible secondary. So they didn't win the SB. So what. You don't think we'd be a better team if we swapped our defense with theirs? You're kidding yourself if you don't think so.

The up tempo no huddle offense and the read option both attack the linebacking corps of defenses. Without versatile guys who can chase and defend multiple positions, you're in big trouble on defense.

This isn't a trend. The whole league is incorporating these principles into their offense.

I strongly recommend you read up on the read option before making blanket statements about it. Bc you're incredibly wrong about it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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I thought Mosely and Cordle did a decent job against the Colts. I was keeping an eye on them and I thought there's promise there. Cordle whiffed on a couple of run blocks but I thought overall he flashed some promise. Moseley looks better in pass pro but I think he has potential too. I wouldn't give up on either of them.

And I think Ojomo deserves more snaps with the 2nd unit. What more does he have to do? The guy deserves more quality reps.

And I agree with Jug, #43 was all over the place.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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I was also very impressed with Pugh. Pugh looks like he has LT potential. Obviously he won't play LT for us but I'm starting to feel comfortable with him as RT moving forward.

And Cox looks very good.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Ojomo might be like DaMonster where he doesn't time well but just makes plays.
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