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Old 01-03-2014, 09:08 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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You grade position coaches just like position coaches grade their players for their position. Sure Eli and the OL has issues. However, you can look at and see how many mistakes did the WR make? Murphy was targeted at one point 5 times, and had 3 turnovers, 2 ints, and 1 fumble. R.R. was boom or bust and accounted for Ints. Nicks was useless but effort was an issue.

That's all on the players but the position coach has to get his whole unit to play better. That's the stuff you grade on. For example, on my grading sheet, I graded my players on effort, technique, and accuracy I think the last one was. For example, route running.. So you can tell if the player had no production due to the ball not going to hit, or inconsistent production with mental errors. Mental errors is on the player, and if it occurs over and over, that's on the position coach.
Interesting, how would you grade our position coaches this season?
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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As mentioned in my post earlier, Cleveland actually saves $9,900,000 against the 2014 salary cap with the way his contract is structured.

Sure trades are rare, but it did happen twice this year with Revis (1st and 3rd/4th) and Harvin (1st).



Here is what I find interesting: if the Browns are looking at Josh McDaniel as their head coach and they need the franchise QB. They have tried a few times and blown it.

Cleveland currently has No. 4 and No. 26* picks (from Indy in Richardson trade)

The RG3 trade is probably the best example here. In order to trade up 4 spots from to No. 2, it cost the Redskins their No. 6 overall pick in 2012, their second-round pick in 2012, and their first-round picks in 2013 and 2014.

Teddy Bridgewater is the clear top QB and by some margin. If this is who the Browns want for their franchise QB then perhaps the No. 4, No. 12 and No 26 picks could get it done.
You can't save money when you trade a star player who just signed a new deal. You owe all guaranteed money to that player.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:23 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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You can't save money when you trade a star player who just signed a new deal. You owe all guaranteed money to that player.
Yes you can it depends on how the contract is structured. I did look into this initially to see how viable this was. i was actually surprised how the numbers shaped up.

Joe Thomas currently has a cap value of $12,300,000 for 2014

If he is traded they will have dead money of $2,400,000 in 2014

That means Cleveland would actually save $9,900,000 against the 2014 cap

check out this reference:
http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=J...LT&Team=Browns

I don't know whether it should happen and it need sufficient benefit to both sides. All I am saying is that the numbers indicate it could be possible.

I would like to see Reese can co kick the tires on this idea.

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Old 01-03-2014, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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I was at overthecap.com also but I think we have a disconnect. He's owed $28 million guaranteed at beginning of deal and they up fronted most of that??
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I was at overthecap.com also but I think we have a disconnect. He's owed $28 million guaranteed at beginning of deal and they up fronted most of that??
8/22/2011: Signed an eight-year, $92 million contract. The deal contains $44 million guaranteed. There is a $200,000 workout bonus in each year of 2012-18 and a $1 million roster bonus in each year of 2016-18. 2013: $10 million, 2014: $10.9 million, 2015: $8.8 million, 2016: $8.3 million, 2017-2018: $8.8 million, 2019: Free Agent

It looks like he had $6m in signing bonus over the first 5 years of the eight year deal.

I imagine the rest of the $44m guaranteed was his first four years salaries.

It looks like they front loaded it quite a bit, interesting
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Interesting, how would you grade our position coaches this season?
Honestly, I normally pay attention to TE and Wrs, since I coached TEs. WRs I give Gilbride Jr. an F. I mean we saw a mess from lack of effort to wrong routes. Everything that can go wrong for a 1st year position coach went wrong. That's the stuff that gets a coach fired.

Pope was asked to make chicken soup using no meat, only tofu. His reputation and body of work speaks for himself. It must be frustrating to keep having a revolving door with TEs going and leaving.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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I was at overthecap.com also but I think we have a disconnect. He's owed $28 million guaranteed at beginning of deal and they up fronted most of that??
It has become fairly common to guarantee the early years salaries instead of a huge signing bonus

Look at the deal William Beatty signed. His first two years base salaries are guaranteed

2/27/2013: Signed a five-year, $37.5 million contract. The deal contains $19 million guaranteed -- a $12.5 million signing bonus, Beatty's first two base salaries, and $650,000 of his third-year salary. Beatty is eligible for annual $50,000 workout bonuses. Another $1.25 million is available through escalators in 2014-2017. 2014: $4.85 million, 2015: $5.5 million, 2016: $6.625 million, 2017: $6.775 million, 2018: Free Agent
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I normally pay attention to TE and Wrs, since I coached TEs. WRs I give Gilbride Jr. an F. I mean we saw a mess from lack of effort to wrong routes. Everything that can go wrong for a 1st year position coach went wrong. That's the stuff that gets a coach fired.

Pope was asked to make chicken soup using no meat, only tofu. His reputation and body of work speaks for himself. It must be frustrating to keep having a revolving door with TEs going and leaving.
Pope was the one guy I was really curious about.

I think our WR problem comes back to the complex offense. With so many options for the QB and for each receiver, it is easy to get off the same page particularly when the offense gets put under so much pressure.

Quote:
What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone considers a “quarterback-friendly” offense that puts a lot of responsibility on the receivers and control in the quarterbacks’ hands. They throw because they can. And it works.

“A lot is asked of the quarterback,” Carr says. “You’ve got the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want. The playbook’s open to you. You’ve got to be on your game. But if you are, it’s a great thing.”

Explained very simply, Manning has the ability to change the play to almost anything in that week’s game plan, based on what he sees in the defensive alignment. And when he calls a pass play, the receivers have several options to change their routes on each play, depending on what the defense does. It’s complicated and hard to learn, and it can be very tricky for the quarterback and receiver to make sure they’re seeing exactly the same thing out of each defender.

Because there are so many options in Gilbride’s offense, though, when it’s run correctly there are more chances for it to work.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2pOm6crpq
Having said that, I am not sure that Gilbride Jr should stay or go. I think it is safe to say that neither Sean Ryan nor Gilbride Jr did a good enough job this year.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I normally pay attention to TE and Wrs, since I coached TEs. WRs I give Gilbride Jr. an F. I mean we saw a mess from lack of effort to wrong routes. Everything that can go wrong for a 1st year position coach went wrong. That's the stuff that gets a coach fired.

Pope was asked to make chicken soup using no meat, only tofu. His reputation and body of work speaks for himself. It must be frustrating to keep having a revolving door with TEs going and leaving.
Hypothetically if we brought in Turner of Chud as or OC, who should be our assistants?
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget Pope was the only coach retained from the Fassel era.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Can you name a position coach whose whole unit stunk?
Sean Ryan....
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget Pope was the only coach retained from the Fassel era.
Do you think Pope should be fired?
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Do you think Pope should be fired?
Definitely not. He's made mountains out of ant hills. Myers was first problem under him in forever and even he improved as year went on. Pope is brilliant.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Definitely not. He's made mountains out of ant hills. Myers was first problem under him in forever and even he improved as year went on. Pope is brilliant.
I actually agree with you, but I was curious to see your thoughts.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Pope is the man. Do we know what kind offense he would run? Has he ever been an OC before? He does some brilliant stuff with TEs. I'd be curious to see if he ever got a chance to be an OC.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Pope has been a TE coach for 20 years I think. He'll never go to OC.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Sean Ryan....
Yeah he could be one. But his guys, Eli, painter and Nassib are all relying on an OL. He can always point to that, and the WR corps as critical factors effecting his Qbs. He can always bring up on a QBs internal clock gets buggered due to a bad OL. So it messes up your mechanics because at that point you just trying to survive.

So even if they graded him badly in an exit interview, they wouldn't let him go unless there is a better option. I'd rather bring Sully as a WR or QB coach.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Hypothetically if we brought in Turner of Chud as or OC, who should be our assistants?
Realistically not sure. However, if it were me, I would move Ryan back to WR coach, Sully as QB coach, and Turner as our OC. I'd keep everyone else. Fire Quinn, promote Izzo.
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Realistically not sure. However, if it were me, I would move Ryan back to WR coach, Sully as QB coach, and Turner as our OC. I'd keep everyone else. Fire Quinn, promote Izzo.
You think Izzo would be a good coach for the kickers? I feel like he is there only to help out on coverage which we've been bad at over the years. Although this year did get a bit better.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
Realistically not sure. However, if it were me, I would move Ryan back to WR coach, Sully as QB coach, and Turner as our OC. I'd keep everyone else. Fire Quinn, promote Izzo.
The other guy i am unsure on is Pat Flahrety. He has done well at times, but the performance of the unit over the years has been a little inconsistent. If we had a change to upgrade, I would at least look at it. Mike Munchak is now available, he could be an interesting option, particularly if we moved to a zone blocking scheme.

I would rather try and bring in Mike Priefer to replace Quinn, keep Izzo though.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:13 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Add Munchak to the list of guys id like as our OC
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:26 PM    (permalink
Damix
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Originally Posted by Big_Pete View Post
The other guy i am unsure on is Pat Flahrety. He has done well at times, but the performance of the unit over the years has been a little inconsistent. If we had a change to upgrade, I would at least look at it. Mike Munchak is now available, he could be an interesting option, particularly if we moved to a zone blocking scheme.

I would rather try and bring in Mike Priefer to replace Quinn, keep Izzo though.
While Kluwe's article was clearly biased, there was definitely some truth in it, so no chance I want him even near the team.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big_Pete View Post
The other guy i am unsure on is Pat Flahrety. He has done well at times, but the performance of the unit over the years has been a little inconsistent. If we had a change to upgrade, I would at least look at it. Mike Munchak is now available, he could be an interesting option, particularly if we moved to a zone blocking scheme.

I would rather try and bring in Mike Priefer to replace Quinn, keep Izzo though.
After reading that Kluwe thing, I wouldn't touch Priefer. Kluwe is a little full of himself but I don't think he would just straight up make that up.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I have been looking at our teams Pro Football Focus offensive ratings fom 2008-2013

2008

Overall 5th (PFF 113.4)
Pass 18th (PFF -21.8)
Rush 2nd (PFF 8.3)
Pass Block 7th (PFF 30.7)
Run Block 5th (PFF 88.8)
Penalty 6th (PFF 7.4)

2009

Overall 5th (PFF 143.2)
Pass 8th (PFF 26.0)
Rush 29th (PFF -17.1)
Pass Block 10th (PFF 28.8)
Run Block 7th (PFF 94.3)
Penalty 5th (PFF 11.2)


2010

Overall 10th (PFF 113.4)
Pass 10th (PFF 15.3)
Rush 7th (PFF 4.0)
Pass Block 7th (PFF 16.2)
Run Block 16th (PFF 13.1)
Penalty 22nd (PFF -3.2)

2011

Overall 22nd (PFF -21.5)
Pass 3rd (PFF 88.4)
Rush 20th (PFF -0.4)
Pass Block 7th (PFF 30.7)
Run Block 5th (PFF 88.8)
Penalty 6th (PFF 7.4)

2012

Overall 6th (PFF 134)
Pass 18th (PFF -21.8)
Rush 2nd (PFF 8.3)
Pass Block 32nd (PFF -81.0)
Run Block 25th (PFF -29.8)
Penalty 14th (PFF 1.3)

2013

Overall 27th (PFF -72.9)
Pass 21st (PFF -12.1)
Rush 29th (PFF -4.3)
Pass Block 31st (PFF -58.6)
Run Block 17th (PFF -22.9)
Penalty 11th (PFF 25.0)

Last edited by Big_Pete : 01-04-2014 at 02:34 PM. Reason: fix typos
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:38 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damix View Post
While Kluwe's article was clearly biased, there was definitely some truth in it, so no chance I want him even near the team.

I am not sure on the Kluwe article, you could also interpret it that the player had a history of being difficult to work with and he took comments in ways that they were not intended and is being militant enough to push the issue and make a big deal out of something it really isn't..

Regardless, I think he would be fine here under Coughlin.
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