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Old 06-17-2014, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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We should seriously give Terrell Thomas a call and try him out at safety this year.

We cut Will Hill, we could use another camp body. Why not? He was solid last year. He's lost some speed and his health is obviously a concern but it can't hurt to try.

He's another year removed from his ACL, played every game last year, is familiar with our system, good locker room guy, we have 5 mill in cap money, it can't hurt to give him a try and see if he can be our big nickel safety.

Why? The fact no one signed our Cbs says a lot of what the league thinks of them. No more for Webster, Ross and TT. I dont want any of them. Move on. Turn the page.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Why? The fact no one signed our Cbs says a lot of what the league thinks of them. No more for Webster, Ross and TT. I dont want any of them. Move on. Turn the page.
Sometimes a player is more valueable to the organization that trained him than to outside organizations. Knowledge of the system goes a long way sometimes.

It's why teams bring in familiar faces when they're in a bind. Thomas played well last year. I'd like to see what he can do 2 years removed from his ACL.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Sometimes a player is more valueable to the organization that trained him than to outside organizations. Knowledge of the system goes a long way sometimes.

It's why teams bring in familiar faces when they're in a bind. Thomas played well last year. I'd like to see what he can do 2 years removed from his ACL.
Sometimes.. Not this time. Clearly we are shedding dead weight AND players who we deem not productive anymore. We basically told Tuck no thanks. But.. I can give you a cheap discount, Mara and Reese? No thanks. But why? I can play for cheap? No thanks, but we appreciate your service.

Thats the trend. Just look at the big picture of what are doing. We will not sign a guy who messed up his knee that many times. Doesnt matter if he has a PHd in the system.

Just look at the players we cast out. That's the new vision.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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Sometimes.. Not this time. Clearly we are shedding dead weight AND players who we deem not productive anymore. We basically told Tuck no thanks. But.. I can give you a cheap discount, Mara and Reese? No thanks. But why? I can play for cheap? No thanks, but we appreciate your service.

Thats the trend. Just look at the big picture of what are doing. We will not sign a guy who messed up his knee that many times. Doesnt matter if he has a PHd in the system.

Just look at the players we cast out. That's the new vision.
I'm perfectly fine with most of our cuts, I just really like Thomas. He's a hard worker, a good locker room guy, he was productive, he just caught some bad breaks.

As a camp body for the vet minimum it can't hurt. Let me have this one bro.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I'm perfectly fine with most of our cuts, I just really like Thomas. He's a hard worker, a good locker room guy, he was productive, he just caught some bad breaks.

As a camp body for the vet minimum it can't hurt. Let me have this one bro.
Bad breaks, is sadly, part of the game. Look at D. Hixon.. Another damn knee injury. He is a hard worker too. Its terrible, but we are running a business and finally Reese has realized stop being nostalgic and turn the page. healthier and younger was the mantra. So no Ross, No Webster, No Tuck, No TT. We are systematically getting younger. There is no way TT would be re-signed.

I agree with what you said, but its not happening because that's not the vision.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Bad breaks, is sadly, part of the game. Look at D. Hixon.. Another damn knee injury. He is a hard worker too. Its terrible, but we are running a business and finally Reese has realized stop being nostalgic and turn the page. healthier and younger was the mantra. So no Ross, No Webster, No Tuck, No TT. We are systematically getting younger. There is no way TT would be re-signed.

I agree with what you said, but its not happening because that's not the vision.
It works when you draft well. But we're so thin it's going to take several years to rebuild this 53 with young guys across the board.

We need 3 LBs, 2 safeties, 1 DT, 1 DE, and 1 CB (nickel) and that's just on defense! And that doesn't include depth either.

Just to rebuild the defense with youth will take 2 years alone. And we still need 1 or 2 guys on the OL and a TE on offense.

Jeez. So much work to do with this roster. We can remain competitive with our FAs to fill the void while we retool but we need so much youth on this team its ridiculous.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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It works when you draft well. But we're so thin it's going to take several years to rebuild this 53 with young guys across the board.

We need 3 LBs, 2 safeties, 1 DT, 1 DE, and 1 CB (nickel) and that's just on defense! And that doesn't include depth either.

Just to rebuild the defense with youth will take 2 years alone. And we still need 1 or 2 guys on the OL and a TE on offense.

Jeez. So much work to do with this roster. We can remain competitive with our FAs to fill the void while we retool but we need so much youth on this team its ridiculous.

Its going to take a while. If we fail this year we could let TC and Eli go. Elis contract ends in 2 years. He will be 35 years old. So he is at that age where we can go in another direction OR extend him for a few years.

This isn't a 1 year rebuild. We still are not done. Tc and the staff are on a 2 year deal. So massive changes everywhere are still on the horizon. Its not done yet.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Its going to take a while. If we fail this year we could let TC and Eli go. Elis contract ends in 2 years. He will be 35 years old. So he is at that age where we can go in another direction OR extend him for a few years.

This isn't a 1 year rebuild. We still are not done. Tc and the staff are on a 2 year deal. So massive changes everywhere are still on the horizon. Its not done yet.
Who's left to weed out? Snee is a definite goner after this year. Maaaybe Beatty. Other than that I think offensively we don't have anymore aging vets on the outs. Eli is here to stay. He's not going anywhere.

Even if Coughlin gets fired they won't hire a GM/coach that doesn't want to keep Eli. Eli is safe.

Defensively we got Rolle and Kiwi as aging vets on the outs. Maybe Beason?

We have other guys who could be on the way out too I just didn't include them bc they're not old vets. I'm just talking about the old guys right now.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Who's left to weed out? Snee is a definite goner after this year. Maaaybe Beatty. Other than that I think offensively we don't have anymore aging vets on the outs. Eli is here to stay. He's not going anywhere.

Even if Coughlin gets fired they won't hire a GM/coach that doesn't want to keep Eli. Eli is safe.

Defensively we got Rolle and Kiwi as aging vets on the outs. Maybe Beason?

We have other guys who could be on the way out too I just didn't include them bc they're not old vets. I'm just talking about the old guys right now.
Rolle, Kiwi, Beatty, Snee, not to mention 1 year contract guys. Coaching staff and Eli are on 2 year deals. RR and AR are on 2 year deals and Wilson. JJ is on a 1 year deal.

Eli is safe for NOW.. But two years will fly right by. What happens to the staff then?

If JPP doesnt come back to himself and commands a lot of money, we wont pay that much for a guy who may or may not produce. We have see this year.

We have a lot of what ifs on this team. So nothing is set in stone. Guys like Cruz, and new additions are safe. Everyone else is on a 1-2 year deals. Just check the contracts on BBI. No one really has more than a 3 year deal. It's all 1 and 2 year deals.

Hence, we can have another massive turnover.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I know many of you want to be optomistic about Bromley but I think he sucks. Sorry. I'll be shocked if he pans out.

I felt the same way when I saw Austin's tape. Just didn't get a good feeling about his ability, and I feel like Bromley is even worse. I don't see it at all. There's absolutely nothing about him that is remotely interesting to me.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it.

We got 3 players out of this draft. I think ODB will be solid (not special, but soild), we got a reliable Center who will be a solid but not spectacular starter for the next 10 years, and we got a solid RB in round 4. Everyone else is meh.

So in a draft that we really needed to hit a grand slam, we got a solid C+ draft class. 3 solid to ok players is not good enough.

I'm slowly losing faith in this front office.
I am waiting to see what happens, firstly no one knows how our new offense will look or how effective it will be. We know there will be bumps along the way, but I also think it is the chance to be genuinely explosive.

I think of Bromley in a similar light to Jay Alford, I wasn't a fan of Austin either.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Rolle, Kiwi, Beatty, Snee, not to mention 1 year contract guys. Coaching staff and Eli are on 2 year deals. RR and AR are on 2 year deals and Wilson. JJ is on a 1 year deal.

I am not convinced Eli is secure either, it will depend on how well he rebounds this year.

There is likely some changes imminent on defence next offseason.

LB Paysinger, Williams and Herzlich are all off contract after this season.

DL Pierre Paul, Jenkins, Patterson and Markus Kuhn are all off contract after this season.

DB Rolle, Brown, Demps, Thurmond, Bowman, Hosley and James are all off contract after this season.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Last Update: June 16, 2014
2014 .........2015.... 2016
Quarterbacks:
Eli Manning........... 15,150,000 17,000,000
Curtis Painter 730,000
Ryan Nassib 495,000 585,000 675,000
Halfbacks:
Rashad Jennings 730,000 2,230,000 2,230,000
David Wilson 997,682 1,301,523
Peyton Hillis 730,000 870,000
Andre Williams 420,000 510,000 600,000
Michael Cox 495,000 585,000 675,000
Kendall Gaskins 420,000 510,000
Fullbacks:
John Conner 730,000
Henry Hynoski 725,000
Wide Receivers:
Victor Cruz 3,999,000 6,150,000 7,900,000
Odell Beckham, Jr. 420,000 893,009 1,366,018
Rueben Randle 664,266 813,899
Jerrel Jernigan 645,000
Mario Manningham 730,000
Trindon Holliday 570,000
Julian Talley 420,000 510,000
Marcus Harris 420,000 510,000
Preston Parker 570,000 660,000
Travis Harvey 420,000
Corey Washington 420,000 510,000 600,000
Kris Adams ????
Tight Ends/H-Backs:
Daniel Fells 730,000
Kellen Davis 730,000
Larry Donnell 495,000
Adrien Robinson 570,000 660,000
Xavier Grimble 420,000 510,000 600,000
Offensive Linemen:
William Beatty 4,850,000 5,500,000 6,625,000
Justin Pugh 784,359 1,163,718 1,157,307
Charles Brown 730,000
James Brewer 650,000
Steven Baker 420,000 510,000
Troy Kropog 645,000 745,000
Jamaal Johnson-Webb 420,000 510,000
Rogers Gaines 420,000 510,000
Geoff Schwartz 1,500,000 3,675,000 3,925,000
Chris Snee 2,000,000
John Jerry 730,000
Brandon Mosley 570,000 660,000
Eric Herman 420,000 510,000
J.D. Walton 1,250,000 2,250,000
Weston Richburg 420,000 641,697 863,394
Dallas Reynolds 570,000
Defensive Linemen:
Jason Pierre-Paul 3,161,000 680,000
Mathias Kiwanuka 1,500,000 4,775,000
Damontre Moore 495,000 585,000 675,000
Robert Ayers 730,000 1,230,000
Kendrick Adams 420,000 510,000
Kerry Wynn 420,000 510,000 600,000
Emmanuel Dieke 420,000 510,000 600,000
Jordan Stanton 420,000 510,000 600,000
Cullen Jenkins 2,450,000 2,200,000
Johnathan Hankins 588,213 771,426 954,639
Mike Patterson 855,000
Markus Kuhn 570,000 660,000
Jay Bromley ????
Kelcy Quarles 420,000 510,000 600,000
Eathyn Manumaleuna 420,000 510,000 600,000
Linebackers:
Jon Beason 730,000 3,600,000 2,800,000
Spencer Paysinger 1,431,000
Jacquian Williams 1,431,000
Jameel McClain 1,350,000 1,750,000
Mark Herzlich 775,000
Spencer Adkins 645,000
Devon Kennard 420,000 510,000 600,000
Justin Anderson 420,000 510,000 600,000
Dan Fox 420,000 510,000 600,000
Terrell Manning ????
Defensive Backs:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 730,000 4,230,000 5,980,000
Prince Amukamara 795,200 6,898,000
Walter Thurmond 1,975,000
Trumaine McBride 750,000 1,000,000
Jayron Hosley 570,000 660,000
Zack Bowman 730,000
Charles James 495,000
Bennett Jackson 420,000 510,000 600,000
Ross Weaver 420,000 510,000
Travis Howard 420,000 510,000
Antrel Rolle 7,000,000
Stevie Brown 1,725,000
Quintin Demps 730,000
Cooper Taylor 495,000 585,000 675,000
Nat Berhe 420,000 510,000 600,000
Thomas Gordon 420,000 510,000 600,000
C.J. Barnett 420,000 510,000 600,000
Kyle Sebetic 420,000 510,000 600,000
Kickers and Snappers:
Steve Weatherford 900,000 2,175,000 2,325,000
Josh Brown 1,000,000 1,000,000
Brandon McManus 420,000 510,000
Zak DeOssie 925,000 975,000





Credit to BBI for this.

But check how many 1 and 2 year deals there are.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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My God we're so screwed. We're a good 4 years worth of rebuilding away from being back to our 07-11 level of contending.

We're just going to have to keep drafting and replacing guys, and signing 1 to 2 year rental free agents over the next 3 or so years while we retool to remain competitive.

Either that or just blow this **** up and start all over. Seeing these contracts really pisses me off now bc why didn't Reese trade back and collect draft picks?

Was an undersized WR really that important that we couldn't trade into the late 1st and collect a 2nd rounder out of it?

We could've drafted Bitonio in the late 1st, Jordan Matthews and Richburg in the 2nd and be better off.

Sure that's hindsight, but you get my point.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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My God we're so screwed. We're a good 4 years worth of rebuilding away from being back to our 07-11 level of contending.

We're just going to have to keep drafting and replacing guys, and signing 1 to 2 year rental free agents over the next 3 or so years while we retool to remain competitive.

Either that or just blow this **** up and start all over. Seeing these contracts really pisses me off now bc why didn't Reese trade back and collect draft picks?

Was an undersized WR really that important that we couldn't trade into the late 1st and collect a 2nd rounder out of it?

We could've drafted Bitonio in the late 1st, Jordan Matthews and Richburg in the 2nd and be better off.

Sure that's hindsight, but you get my point.

Haha, what the hell do you think I been telling you? Look at it from a big picture standpoint. Look at all the 1-2 year deals above and ADD the whole coaching staff.

That's a lot of players that will be turned over and it that could mean Eli and our coaching staff. Even if Eli plays lights out, do we really want to break the bank for a 35 year old QB?


Its not a 1 or 2 year fix. I said that before. Just look at the landscape and again big picture. We are sifting through right now and these guys are 1-2 year stop gaps. Or the good ole 1 year show me deal. Which basically means, if you're too good, we wont re-sign you. IF you stink, we wont re-sign you. lol
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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I think if Eli plays well you have to extend him. It's not easy finding qbs, even if you can get 2 more years of good play out of Eli and that gives us a chance to win a SB you take that and run with it.

We've been a bit spoiled over the past 10 years, we've had it as good as anyone, and it's unlikely that we can replace a 2 time SB winning Qb with another one just like that. There's going to be a bit of dark ages in btw.

Yes, I know about Favre/Rodgers. That doesn't happen often. I'm just being realistic.

I want to try to squeeze out as much life as I can out of Eli before he retires, bc after he retires, we're in for some long hard years. Let's try to get one more title out of him.

We have a good 5 to 6 years to do it, let's enjoy it and make the most of it.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I think you're being a bit dramatic BBD but yes our drafts can't be complete messes anymore.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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I think if Eli plays well you have to extend him. It's not easy finding qbs, even if you can get 2 more years of good play out of Eli and that gives us a chance to win a SB you take that and run with it.

We've been a bit spoiled over the past 10 years, we've had it as good as anyone, and it's unlikely that we can replace a 2 time SB winning Qb with another one just like that. There's going to be a bit of dark ages in btw.

Yes, I know about Favre/Rodgers. That doesn't happen often. I'm just being realistic.

I want to try to squeeze out as much life as I can out of Eli before he retires, bc after he retires, we're in for some long hard years. Let's try to get one more title out of him.

We have a good 5 to 6 years to do it, let's enjoy it and make the most of it.

He has Tom Condon as an agent. So it may not come cheap. What if at 35 he wants a 4-5 year deal which breaks the 100 Million dollar range. Basically wanting to be paid higher than guys like Flacco and such? Do you still do that? I cant be sure.


One more title is the least of my worries. Just getting this team in the playoffs is step one. Also, if TC retires or gets fired, remember he has 2 years , as well as all the coaches, what if the new HC doesnt want Eli?
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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When you look at all those contracts coming off the books, plus all the age/bad young players we need to replace, then go into that assuming that you'll get 3 good players out of each draft, plus maybe 2 in FA per year, then it's not unreasonable to think we're 3 years away from overhauling the roster.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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When you look at all those contracts coming off the books, plus all the age/bad young players we need to replace, then go into that assuming that you'll get 3 good players out of each draft, plus maybe 2 in FA per year, then it's not unreasonable to think we're 3 years away from overhauling the roster.
3 good players in each draft? That's a big time assumption there. I don't think we hit on drafts overall lately. If we keep swinging and missing, we are in trouble.

We need to hit consistently on our drafts from now on.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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3 good players in each draft? That's a big time assumption there. I don't think we hit on drafts overall lately. If we keep swinging and missing, we are in trouble.

We need to hit consistently on our drafts from now on.
3 good players is the median draft result across the league. I'm not saying 3 pro bowlers, I'm talking about 3 contributing players. That's what I define as "good"

And by contributing I mean 3 guys who can stick and contribute to offense or defense for 4 years. Only special teams contributions I count are return ability. I don't care that you can make tackles on special teams, just about anyone could so that doesn't count as being a contributor to me.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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3 good players is the median draft result across the league. I'm not saying 3 pro bowlers, I'm talking about 3 contributing players. That's what I define as "good"

And by contributing I mean 3 guys who can stick and contribute to offense or defense for 4 years. Only special teams contributions I count are return ability. I don't care that you can make tackles on special teams, just about anyone could so that doesn't count as being a contributor to me.
So far I am still skeptical we can get 3 productive players. 3 players contributing is baseline. We need 3 players who don't need to be pro bowlers but need to be solid players.

I don't feel we are getting enough production out of our draft picks.


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2014 3 74 Jay Bromley DT 0 0 0 Syracuse
2014 4 113 Andre Williams RB 0 0 0 Boston Col.
2014 5 152 Nat Berhe SS 0 0 0 San Diego St.
2014 5 174 Devon Kennard OLB 0 0 0 USC
2014 6 187 Bennett Jackson CB 0 0 0 Notre Dame
Passing Rushing Receiving
Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ
2013 1 19 Justin Pugh OL 2013 0 0 1 6 16 Syracuse
2013 2 49 Johnathan Hankins DT 2013 0 0 0 1 11 Ohio St.
2013 3 81 Damontre Moore DE 2013 0 0 0 1 15 Texas A&M
2013 4 110 Ryan Nassib QB 2013 0 0 0 0 0 Syracuse
2013 5 152 Cooper Taylor DB 2013 0 0 0 1 10 Richmond
2013 7 225 Eric Herman OL 2013 0 0 0 0 0 Ohio
2013 7 253 Michael Cox RB 2013 0 0 0 0 14 22 43 0 3 12 0 Massachusetts
Passing Rushing Receiving
Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ
2012 1 32 David Wilson RB 2013 0 0 1 5 21 115 504 5 6 42 1 Virginia Tech
2012 2 63 Rueben Randle WR 2013 0 0 0 7 32 60 909 9 LSU
2012 3 94 Jayron Hosley DB 2013 0 0 0 4 23 1 Virginia Tech
2012 4 127 Adrien Robinson TE 2013 0 0 0 0 3 Cincinnati
2012 4 131 Brandon Mosley OL 2013 0 0 0 1 13 Auburn
2012 6 201 Matt McCants OL 2013 0 0 0 2 13
2012 7 239 Markus Kuhn DT 2013 0 0 0 1 15 North Carolina St.
Passing Rushing Receiving
Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ
2011 1 19 Prince Amukamara DB 2013 0 0 2 12 36 3 Nebraska
2011 2 52 Marvin Austin DL 2013 0 0 0 1 11 North Carolina
2011 3 83 Jerrel Jernigan WR 2013 0 0 0 2 32 3 63 1 32 351 2 Troy
2011 4 117 James Brewer OL 2013 0 0 1 4 24 Indiana
2011 6 185 Greg Jones LB 2012 0 0 0 3 22 Michigan St.
2011 6 198 Tyler Sash SS 2012 0 0 0 1 23 Iowa
2011 6 202 Jacquian Williams LB 2013 0 0 1 10 42 2.0 South Florida
2011 7 221 Da'Rel Scott RB 2013 0 0 0 1 20 31 98 0 13 115 1 Maryland
Passing Rushing Receiving
Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ
2010 1 15 Jason Pierre-Paul DE 2013 1 2 3 28 59 2 29.5 South Florida
2010 2 46 Linval Joseph DT 2013 0 0 3 21 53 9.0 East Carolina
2010 3 76 Chad Jones DB 0 0 0 LSU
2010 4 115 Phillip Dillard LB 2012 0 0 0 0 7 Nebraska
2010 5 147 Mitch Petrus G 2012 0 0 0 3 27 Arkansas
2010 6 184 Adrian Tracy DE 2012 0 0 0 1 16 1.0 William & Mary
2010 7 221 Matt Dodge P 2010 0 0 1 2 1
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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I'm hoping that this new offense is going to result in some of our offensive draft picks ressurecting their careers.

I don't know if it will happen, but I'm hopefull. I expect Randle to break out, I think Robinson can have a great year if he stays healthy, same for Donnell, and I expect Jernigan to contribute.

If Wilson can get healthy and not fumble I think he has a chance too.

If the scheme change alone can get more out of those players, it's almost like getting 4 to 5 draft picks if you think about it.

That's all we can hope for offensively at least. Defense is still screwed though.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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I'm hoping that this new offense is going to result in some of our offensive draft picks ressurecting their careers.

I don't know if it will happen, but I'm hopefull. I expect Randle to break out, I think Robinson can have a great year if he stays healthy, same for Donnell, and I expect Jernigan to contribute.

If Wilson can get healthy and not fumble I think he has a chance too.

If the scheme change alone can get more out of those players, it's almost like getting 4 to 5 draft picks if you think about it.

That's all we can hope for offensively at least. Defense is still screwed though.
Thats what I am expecting. Wilson, JJ and AR. Wilson and AR are on 2 year deals, and JJ is in his contract year. So again, are these long term guys, or musical players again?

Our defense is fine It's in better shape than our offense. Our offense across the board is a question mark. We have Fewell back and went balls out in FA.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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OMG that's the greatest gif ever.
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