Carolina at #1 - Page 5

LonghornsLegend · 03-06-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7

Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

Were just not gonna see that unless there is a perceived slam dunk talent at #1, and even when that happens the team who is trading out of that spot is gonna need to have a nice consolation prize to fall back to. Nobody is even thinking about it when there isn't even a legit pick for #1 overall.

Had Suh came out this season maybe someone would consider it, he'd be head and shoulders above who is available this year.

ThePudge · 03-06-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7

Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

I'd say that's a very fair assumption.

thegreatone · 03-06-2011, 02:48 PM

Patrick Peterson is easily the bpa, so I would pick him.

dannyz · 03-06-2011, 02:50 PM

I remember when Andrew Luck had not taken himself out of the Draft yet and people were like what about Clausen? Jimmy should get another shot. Now everyone is like Gabbert or Newton and no body cares about Clausen. Newton and Gabbert over Luck? Not in a million years.

brat316 · 03-06-2011, 03:02 PM

Nah, Green or DT.

jnew76 · 03-06-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7

Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

If there is a rookie wage scale in place by the draft I think it makes trading for the pick a little more attractive... However, I still doubt that a team is willing to pay the premium price in picks that it usually takes.

slats7 · 03-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Were just not gonna see that unless there is a perceived slam dunk talent at #1, and even when that happens the team who is trading out of that spot is gonna need to have a nice consolation prize to fall back to. Nobody is even thinking about it when there isn't even a legit pick for #1 overall.

Had Suh came out this season maybe someone would consider it, he'd be head and shoulders above who is available this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePudge

I'd say that's a very fair assumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnew76

If there is a rookie wage scale in place by the draft I think it makes trading for the pick a little more attractive... However, I still doubt that a team is willing to pay the premium price in picks that it usually takes.

So whose phones should be ringing off the hook on draft day? Arizona and Cleveland?

nepg · 03-06-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePudge

There has been NFL personnel that had a closer look in interviews and said Newton checked out perfectly in interviews. While I don't think he has close to pristine character, one team will fall in love and he's still a cinch Top 5 pick with Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Arizona all in the market for a franchise QB. Of all people, you can't put your personal evaluation to the side and see it how NFL teams will? Has your draft record been that accurate in the past? How would you rate your grasp on predicting the NFL Draft?

Like it or not, some people need to take their head out of their ass and realize that as many as 6 Quarterbacks could be off the board by the end of the Second Round. QBs will go higher than scouts and "experts" have them on their boards due to immense demand. It looks likely that two QBs will come off the board in the first 12 picks and it looks like those two will be Newton and Blaine Gabbert. Let me clarify, I don't think Gabbert is a Top 30 player in this draft... but I'm also not too full of my opinion to assume that teams will be able to land him in the Late 1st-Early 2nd where I think he deserves to go.

So all of you that think no QB warrants a Top 20 selection, learn how to remove personal opinions when actually talking about projections for draft day. There is a ton of insider info out there that helps illustrate where teams expect players to come off the board. I'm a fan of using those available resources instead of assuming NFL teams will draft based on my personal board.

I've consistently mocked all 4 QBs in the Top 15, and I think that's where they should go. There are tons of teams that are in high demand for franchise QBs, and while I'm not high on Gabbert, it's more that I think he has the least to offer out of the 4...he still have franchise QB qualities as well...

This is a damn good QB class, and it's funny to watch it get panned so harshly.

I don't grade QBs with a round. A QB is either a franchise-quality guy who you'd take anyway you can get him (Locker, Newton, Mallett, Gabbert), a developmental player who you weigh your team's situation with (Tebow, Kaepernick?), or a backup QB who you take after the 4th or 5th round.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 04:25 PM

I just hope the Panthers are stupid enough to take Newton #1 so the Browns have a chance to get Dareus/Fairley.

I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.

If I was running the Panthers, I would take whomever I thought was better between Fairley and Dareus depending on system fit and that is unfortunately the direction I think they will go... maybe they will take pity on my franchise and take Bowers

RealityCheck · 03-06-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.

Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.

I wouldn't go that far, but it is why I wouldn't take him until the second round of the draft.

It just boggles my mind that a prospect with such a wide range of opinions could possibly go #1 in the entire draft. I just don't buy it.

ChiFan24 · 03-06-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.

For ****'s sake, stop posting. In a realistic worst case scenario, he's a Vince Young type, which isn't even remotely a UDFA grade, it's a second or third round grade.

But go ahead, give him the UDFA grade. I'm sure your rankings will turn the NFL draft world upside down. You know, with all the people that will be reading them.

ChiFan24 · 03-06-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyz

I remember when Andrew Luck had not taken himself out of the Draft yet and people were like what about Clausen? Jimmy should get another shot. Now everyone is like Gabbert or Newton and no body cares about Clausen. Newton and Gabbert over Luck? Not in a million years.

Pretty sure you're thinking of two different groups of people.

nepg · 03-06-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

I just hope the Panthers are stupid enough to take Newton #1 so the Browns have a chance to get Dareus/Fairley.

I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.

If I was running the Panthers, I would take whomever I thought was better between Fairley and Dareus depending on system fit and that is unfortunately the direction I think they will go... maybe they will take pity on my franchise and take Bowers

JaMarcus Russell... Jeff George...

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

JaMarcus Russell... Jeff George...

Russell is debatable. Most would argue that he only had one red flag... work ethic. That is what killed him.

Jeff George could still be on an NFL roster right now if he wasn't a total space cadet. He's that talented.

nepg · 03-06-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Jeff George could still be on an NFL roster right now if he wasn't a total space cadet. He's that talented.

Cam Newton's more talented than Jeff George and has lesser character issues going into the draft.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Cam Newton's more talented than Jeff George and has lesser character issues going into the draft.

No he isn't. Jeff George's ability to throw the football is the stuff of legends.

It's like Michael Vick and Sean Taylor were combined into one prospect on this board.

People would watch the guy work out and fall in love with his arm over and over again in spite of everything... he was still getting a shot in the league until 2006.

If you were going to build a quarterback, you would put Jeff George's arm on them. You're not taking squat from Cam Newton.

ThePudge · 03-06-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

I wouldn't go that far, but it is why I wouldn't take him until the second round of the draft.

It just boggles my mind that a prospect with such a wide range of opinions could possibly go #1 in the entire draft. I just don't buy it.

According to Rob Rang's recent talk with 7 NFL scouts, 4 teams graded Newton their top Quarterback, 3 teams Gabbert. Each team had Newton graded as their #2 QB if not #1. The top Quarterback will go very high on draft day with up to 13 teams targeting the position in the first three rounds or so. I believe, at this point, that both Newton and Gabbert will go Top 10. A lot is riding on their respective Pro Days though, so we'll see what happens.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePudge

According to Rob Rang's recent talk with 7 NFL scouts, 4 teams graded Newton their top Quarterback, 3 Teams Gabbert. Each team had Newton graded as their #2 QB if not #1. The top Quarterback will go very high on draft day with up to 13 teams targeting the position in the first three rounds or so. I believe, at this point, that both Newton and Gabbert will go Top 10. A lot is riding on their respective Pro Days though, so we'll see what happens.

I never know how much stock to put into these insert person talking to anonymous scouts. It stinks of teams trying to put false information out there.

Pro Days for quarterbacks are worthless. The next quarterback who has a bad pro day will be the first. They are so incredibly scripted, practiced, and everything else that nothing worthwhile is gained from it, unless putting on a clinic against air impresses you.

ThePudge · 03-06-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

I never know how much stock to put into these insert person talking to anonymous scouts. It stinks of teams trying to put false information out there.

Pro Days for quarterbacks are worthless. The next quarterback who has a bad pro day will be the first. They are so incredibly scripted, practiced, and everything else that nothing worthwhile is gained from it, unless putting on a clinic against air impresses you.

So you don't think Cam Newton is the top Quarterback on any boards? With up to 9 teams in the Top 15 looking QB with their pick, wouldn't you agree that he is pretty much a complete lock to go in that range, if not Top 5? I'm fine with opinions being mixed on him in the draftnik community. There are serious concerns with Newton, so his NFL career could potentially go a number of ways. Still, a team very high in the upcoming draft will fall in love with his potential. I don't see him getting past #4 to the Bengals, and I don't know that it'd be a good spot for him if he did land there. I would say he's the favorite for the First Overall Pick over any defensive player in this class.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePudge

So you don't think Cam Newton is the top Quarterback on any boards? With up to 9 teams in the Top 15 looking QB with their pick, wouldn't you agree that he is pretty much a complete lock to go in that range, if not Top 5? I'm fine with opinions being mixed on him in the draftnik community. There are serious concerns with Newton, so his NFL career could potentially go a number of ways. Still, a team very high in the upcoming draft will fall in love with his potential. I don't see him getting past #4 to the Bengals, and I don't know that it'd be a good spot for him if he did land there. I would say he's the favorite for the First Overall Pick over any defensive player in this class.

I have no idea if he is the top quarterback on any boards, let alone 9? Do I think there are coaches with the mindset that they can be the one who helps him realize his potential? Absolutely... probably more than a few. Do I think he's a lock to go in the Top 15? No, but if I had to bet on it, I would. I don't think he will make it past 12th pick and that is still where I have him going. And if he goes 12th, it would be easy for me to believe he was the 3rd QB taken behind Gabbert and Locker. 3rd feels about right... but I still wouldn't take him in the 1st round. The nature of the position suggests some team out there will.

As for the favorite to be the 1st overall pick? Unless I'm missing something, the GM who picked Clausen is still there. I have a hard time believing he's going to go out of his way to make himself look like a moron for having Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen and having taken Clausen in the 2nd round just one year ago. I would also have an easier time believing Newton was in the conversation for the #1 overall pick if the Panthers had a second round pick. The fact that they don't means they would be unlikely to get an immediate starter out of this draft... again, which is why they are a horrible team. It is just not a good way to work the draft and the Panthers are not a big time player in free agency, so they would basically be going with the same team that was horrible last year + a quarterback who can't start right away.

ThePudge · 03-06-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

I have no idea if he is the top quarterback on any boards, let alone 9? Do I think there are coaches with the mindset that they can be the one who helps him realize his potential? Absolutely... probably more than a few. Do I think he's a lock to go in the Top 15? No, but if I had to bet on it, I would. I don't think he will make it past 12th pick and that is still where I have him going. And if he goes 12th, it would be easy for me to believe he was the 3rd QB taken behind Gabbert and Locker. 3rd feels about right... but I still wouldn't take him in the 1st round. The nature of the position suggests some team out there will.

As for the favorite to be the 1st overall pick? Unless I'm missing something, the GM who picked Clausen is still there. I have a hard time believing he's going to go out of his way to make himself look like a moron for having Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen and having taken Clausen in the 2nd round just one year ago. I would also have an easier time believing Newton was in the conversation for the #1 overall pick if the Panthers had a second round pick. The fact that they don't means they would be unlikely to get an immediate starter out of this draft... again, which is why they are a horrible team. It is just not a good way to work the draft and the Panthers are not a big time player in free agency, so they would basically be going with the same team that was horrible last year + a quarterback who can't start right away.

This #1 talk is coming from multiple draftniks with NFL sources. Most seem to be getting the feeling that Newton will be the top pick. He's invested considerably less than $2 million a year for Jimmy Clausen. Quarterback was the achilles heel of the Panthers team a year ago and there's no way anybody could make an argument that Clausen's performance was very disappointing. My gut is still telling me that Newton will be the pick. I'm fine with a different opinion though.

As a Bengals fan I don't think there's much of a chance that the team doesn't take Newton if he were on the board at fourth overall. I don't think it'd be a great fit for him, organization-wise, but I can't see Mike Brown passing on him with the team's current QB situation.

wonderbredd24 · 03-06-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePudge

This #1 talk is coming from multiple draftniks with NFL sources. Most seem to be getting the feeling that Newton will be the top pick. He's invested considerably less than $2 million a year for Jimmy Clausen. Quarterback was the achilles heel of the Panthers team a year ago and there's no way anybody could make an argument that Clausen's performance was very disappointing. My gut is still telling me that Newton will be the pick. I'm fine with a different opinion though.

As a Bengals fan I don't think there's much of a chance that the team doesn't take Newton if he were on the board at fourth overall. I don't think it'd be a great fit for him, organization-wise, but I can't see Mike Brown passing on him with the team's current QB situation.

I would love nothing more than for you to be right guaranteeing the Browns will get at least one of Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn or A.J. Green... preferably one of the tackles.

I think it would substantially easier to make that choice if they were not going to have to wait for another 62 players to go off the board before they pick again

Babylon · 03-06-2011, 07:07 PM

Can we stop quoting draftniks as being some sort of authority as to who is going where, this is getting rediculous.

Rob Rang, who is a freaking school teacher by the way, supposedly has some sort of access to 7 differant teams. If somehow he does they are stupid to be leaking any info and second were these even teams that are in need of QBs. I think we're fast approaching the twilight zone here.

ChiFan24 · 03-06-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

Can we stop quoting draftniks as being some sort of authority as to who is going where, this is getting rediculous.

Rob Rang, who is a freaking school teacher by the way, supposedly has some sort of access to 7 differant teams. If somehow he does they are stupid to be leaking any info and second were these even teams that are in need of QBs. I think we're fast approaching the twilight zone here.

If you're making a mock, it's a hell of a lot better to use a school teacher that works for a respected network than using absolutely nothing but personal opinion. Because then we end up with mocks where Newton falls out of the top 15, and that just is not going to happen.