Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2015 NFL Draft Forum

2015 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2015 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2011, 08:33 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Gil Brandt on Newton

Gil Brandt, ex Director of Scouting for the Cowboys, has his say on Newton's prospects as a pro.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000...s-to-be-a-star
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 08:50 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,473
Reputation: 1091054
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you know, except for the one i wrote in the preceding sentence. but at least he rides around on a scooter. that's the kind of testament to his intangibles i hope to read from a former scout.
Not even close to as awesome as Charley Casserly saying "I really love blaine gabbert even though I haven't seen him play."
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 62,671
Reputation: 2695832
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Another New Thread For Him????

Why????!!!
D-Unit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,722
Reputation: 3521473
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you know, except for the one i wrote in the preceding sentence. but at least he rides around on a scooter. that's the kind of testament to his intangibles i hope to read from a former scout.
NFLN seems to be all on board with Newton which is rather odd because with all players there is always some differance of opinions. Love to have sat in on some of their staff meetings there.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:00 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 8,013
Reputation: 1314604
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I swear by nearly everything that passes over Gil Brandt's lips about an NFL prospect and believe he was most responsible for building those great Cowboys teams of the 1970s.

Generally I agree(!! - really??lol) with everything Brandt said about Newton, however I remember distinctly he thought Ron Dayne could be a quality NFL tailback too.

But who knew Dayne was so afraid of contact??
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:02 PM    (permalink
49erNation85
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Green Bay , WI
Posts: 8,128
Reputation: 148462
49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.49erNation85 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Not even close to as awesome as Charley Casserly saying "I really love blaine gabbert even though I haven't seen him play."
And I just used it as a new Sig quote boom!That guy is such a moron on players.
49erNation85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,722
Reputation: 3521473
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I swear by nearly everything that passes over Gil Brandt's lips about an NFL prospect and believe he was most responsible for building those great Cowboys teams of the 1970s.

Generally I agree(!! - really??lol) with everything Brandt said about Newton, however I remember distinctly he thought Ron Dayne could be a quality NFL tailback too.

But who knew Dayne was so afraid of contact??
Obviously they dont retire these guys like airline pilots.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:12 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,133
Reputation: 597016
SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

"There have been a lot of comparisons to Vince Young and JaMarcus Russell. Itís true that Newton is athletic like they are, but Newton plays more under control than those guys did coming out of college. He wonít make the careless plays, thinking he can rely on his athletic ability to get him out of trouble."

3 things -
Russell was not that athletic. He will rely on his running skills to get him out of trouble. The article never once brings up the offense Newton ran, the same offense that Tebow face alot of criticism about.
SolidGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 12:56 AM    (permalink
the natural
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 606
Reputation: -13770
the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural
Default

Hey, that is two weeks old. A whole different era as far as pre draft statement are concerned. :)

It's been many years since Brandt was employed by an NFL team. Casserly was making these decisions relatively recently. Brandt rated Newton and Gabbert as "1 and 1A" last time I heard him, whereas Casserly and Mayock are quite adament that Gabbert is (Mayock's words) "far and away the best QB in the draft". All the other guys seem to waffle back and forth. Casserly and Mayock have been the only two with consistency. They are the two best draft analysts on the network.

Last edited by the natural : 04-08-2011 at 01:01 AM.
the natural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 01:45 AM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 18,011
Reputation: 2398249
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I swear by nearly everything that passes over Gil Brandt's lips about an NFL prospect and believe he was most responsible for building those great Cowboys teams of the 1970s.

Generally I agree(!! - really??lol) with everything Brandt said about Newton, however I remember distinctly he thought Ron Dayne could be a quality NFL tailback too.

But who knew Dayne was so afraid of contact??
Ron Dayne was a good NFL back when he got in a system that fit his running style. NYG tried to make him a power back just because he was a bigger guy.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 07:33 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

it's the NFL not the boy scouts. no on cares about the stolen laptop from 4 years ago.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 08:33 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 8,013
Reputation: 1314604
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'd say NFL teams don't care 'much' about that purchased stolen laptop.

Hopefully when Newton becomes automatically the wealthiest player on his new team, cash flow issues won't be a distraction for him.

WHat Brandt highlighted that few bring up about Newton is his rep for being a HARD WORKER as a football player, something no one ever said about Russell or VY.

Also he doesn't have a rep for 'big timing' his teammates or other students at Auburn, thus contradicting that assumption that Newton walks around with an overinflated sense of entitlement.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 09:31 AM    (permalink
Complex
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,699
Reputation: 659500
Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the natural View Post
Hey, that is two weeks old. A whole different era as far as pre draft statement are concerned. :)

It's been many years since Brandt was employed by an NFL team. Casserly was making these decisions relatively recently. Brandt rated Newton and Gabbert as "1 and 1A" last time I heard him, whereas Casserly and Mayock are quite adament that Gabbert is (Mayock's words) "far and away the best QB in the draft". All the other guys seem to waffle back and forth. Casserly and Mayock have been the only two with consistency. They are the two best draft analysts on the network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the natural View Post
Hey, that is two weeks old. A whole different era as far as pre draft statement are concerned. :)

It's been many years since Brandt was employed by an NFL team. Casserly was making these decisions relatively recently. Brandt rated Newton and Gabbert as "1 and 1A" last time I heard him, whereas Casserly and Mayock are quite adament that Gabbert is (Mayock's words) "far and away the best QB in the draft". All the other guys seem to waffle back and forth. Casserly [/b]and Mayock have been the only two with consistency. They are the two best draft analysts on the network.

If its one thing Charlie Casserly can do is pick out a HOF QB

Quote:
Who's been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? Wherever he's been, whatever he's done, his percentage is like a meteorologist
....................Bill Belicheck
__________________

Last edited by Complex : 04-08-2011 at 09:33 AM.
Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 10:38 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I saw Charley Casserly rate the QB from the last 3 drafts: Remember this is as prospects not what they went on to accomplish.

1) Bradford - superior accuracy
2) Ryan - less of an athlete than Gabbert but came from a pro system and played college ball through his senior year although he doesn't have Gabbert's arm strength.
3) Stafford - A very special arm but not as accurate in college as Gabbert
4) Gabbert - Very athletic and has passed all tests so far for taking a snap from center. Also did find 2nd receivers better than most believe.
5) Sanchez - Doesn't have Gabbert arm and like Gabbert, is better out of the pocket.
6) Freeman - didn't have Gabbert's accuracy and was rawer
7) Flacco - Spread QB from Delaware vs Spread QB from Div 1 school.

He really doesn't like Newton at all as a 1st rounder although he expects him to go quite high. Of course he drafted David Carr #1 overall for Houston.
He believes Gabbert will go #1 overall.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 10:52 AM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,755
Reputation: 700593
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Charley also selected Champ Bailey, Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels and took some serious heat for selecting Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

Not like the dude is ********.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 10:55 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Charley also selected Champ Bailey, Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels and took some serious heat for selecting Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

Not like the dude is ********.
I wasn't complaining about him as a drafter, just saying maybe QB isn't his best position to judge.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 10:57 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 8,013
Reputation: 1314604
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I saw Charley Casserly rate the QB from the last 3 drafts: Remember this is as prospects not what they went on to accomplish.

1) Bradford - superior accuracy
2) Ryan - less of an athlete than Gabbert but came from a pro system and played college ball through his senior year although he doesn't have Gabbert's arm strength.
3) Stafford - A very special arm but not as accurate in college as Gabbert
4) Gabbert - Very athletic and has passed all tests so far for taking a snap from center. Also did find 2nd receivers better than most believe.
5) Sanchez - Doesn't have Gabbert arm and like Gabbert, is better out of the pocket.
6) Freeman - didn't have Gabbert's accuracy and was rawer
7) Flacco - Spread QB from Delaware vs Spread QB from Div 1 school.

He really doesn't like Newton at all as a 1st rounder although he expects him to go quite high. Of course he drafted David Carr #1 overall for Houston.
He believes Gabbert will go #1 overall.
What's the point of ranking and grading prospects AFTER THE FACT?? Everyone on SWDC could do that.

And why is Casserly comparing them to Gabbert??

IMO Gabbert is figment, an invention, and his negatives are glossed over in an effort to mold him into an elite prospect.

Look at that list again, and tell me who you realistically would consider Gabby a better prospect than??
Freeman is a push, maybe, but every one of those guys showed so much more on game days than Gabbert ever did.

Charley Casserly drafted Heath Shuler, Desmond Howard (to be a #1 WR), and Michael Westbrook. His record wasn't much better once he left D.C.

He's knowledgeable, but not infallible.

Casserly thinks Cam Newton is a fraud as a QB and can't play the position in the pros, never mind his 'intangibles'. That's an extremely narrow strikezone against a prospect. I can't recall Casserly ever saying one thing positive about Newton except the obvious; he's big and athletic.

Still think Gabbert has value in the first round, maybe first 20 picks, but he's so far from a proven quantity or even a known entity that I can't see where the top 5 hopefulness comes from those who believe in his potential.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
What's the point of ranking and grading prospects AFTER THE FACT?? Everyone on SWDC could do that.

And why is Casserly comparing them to Gabbert??

IMO Gabbert is figment, an invention, and his negatives are glossed over in an effort to mold him into an elite prospect.

Look at that list again, and tell me who you realistically would consider Gabby a better prospect than??
Freeman is a push, maybe, but every one of those guys showed so much more on game days than Gabbert ever did.

Charley Casserly drafted Heath Shuler, Desmond Howard (to be a #1 WR), and Michael Westbrook. His record wasn't much better once he left D.C.

He's knowledgeable, but not infallible.

Casserly thinks Cam Newton is a fraud as a QB and can't play the position in the pros, never mind his 'intangibles'. That's an extremely narrow strikezone against a prospect. I can't recall Casserly ever saying one thing positive about Newton except the obvious; he's big and athletic.

Still think Gabbert has value in the first round, maybe first 20 picks, but he's so far from a proven quantity or even a known entity that I can't see where the top 5 hopefulness comes from those who believe in his potential.
One difference between Casserly as a GM/actual drafter and Casserly today. When he was drafting, he could only depend on himself and those that worked for him, today he says over and over, that he checks out with GM's and scouts in the business, how they see a prospect.
You may not like Gabbert as a prospect but it has become pretty obvious that most Scouts, HC's and GM's disagree with you and see him as a top 5 prospect. They have access to film on every throw he made in college, they have watched him progress since the post season began, they have worked him out in tough private practices, they have interviewed him, they have talked to every coach who he ever played for, they have talked to his teammates etc. etc. etc. So I cannot accept your opinion over theirs because I know you have no access to this process.
Can Casserly be wrong, absolutely, the draft process certainly isn't a science, but the hobby for us has reached new levels than I ever thought possible even a couple of years ago. NFLN is really presenting today what a real war room is like and they are presenting it in a way that is difficult to refute, with many opinion expressed and many more opinions confirmed by numerous sources in the business. All these sources real and behind the scenes, simply have access which is totally beyond our resources.
On one side you have real professionals on the other side you have drafniks, can the professional be wrong, certainly, but to say "Gabbert is figment, an invention, and his negatives are glossed over in an effort to mold him into an elite prospect." seems to me a bit absurd. You may be right about Gabbert's weaknesses but obviously the pros don't agree with you. It will be real interesting to see how Gabbert and Newton are as pros, but that is always the case with any rookies.
Maybe we need to change the hobby a bit and use a 5 year assessments after the draft to rate draftniks rather than just see who got the most 1st rounder correct because predicting 1st rounders has become way too easy. I should know because I've been at it an awful long time and seen all the changes take place since the 50's.
__________________
And proud of it!!!

Last edited by Iamcanadian : 04-08-2011 at 11:30 AM.
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 12:07 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 8,013
Reputation: 1314604
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Iamcanadian, what if I told you that I've been a HS football coach for 20 years and have sent 5 QBs to Div. 1 football on scholarship to play QB???

Would my opinion be any more 'valid' then??

That was a hypothetical BTW, I'm not a coach, although there are current and former HS coaches on this board.

My point is, you don't have to be an 'expert', or someone who has worked in a paid capacity for an NFL team to have a legitimate critique of a prospect, especially a QB.

In a way, scouting the QB position for a lay person is the easiest position to scout because you see them take the ball on every snap. The only thing a fan doesn't get a chance to see are the reads that QB is seeing when he drops back or is in the shotgun.

A fan can observe how well a QB prospect has a command of the offense, how he throws the football, how well a QB anticipates routes, his mid to deep accuracy, how he handles a pass rush, and what a QB does when the play breaks down.

Other than throwing, none of the previous IMO appeared to be a strength of Gabbert's last season.

Here's the thing with Gabbert that really bothers me. For the most part on boards like SWDC draftniks and professionals generally have a similar take on roughly the top 32 prospects. THere may be some debate about the order, but the top guys generally have a consensus behind them, or at least the negatives/positives in their game are readily identified.

I don't know of many on this board who view Gabbert as a 'special' QB prospect, despite the opinion of experts. Yes, he has some nice tools and most acknowledge it appears he's going to be drafted high this April, but there's very little vocal defense of him as a player IMO.

To me that's unusual.

Even those who have the most questions about Cam Newton readily admit he's a unique and talented football player, whether or not he will continue to develop in the pros at QB.

As I've pointed out numerous times, if you watch a QB play in college and don't come away impressed with his level of play for the entire game, it's hard IMO to project him as a top prospect.

I personally haven't heard anyone on NFLN, ESPN or this board once describe Gabbert as 'dominant', 'game-changer', 'clutch', 'difference maker', 'winner' or 'rare prospect'.

This is called a 'red flag'.


Bradford, Ryan, Stafford, Sanchez, Flacco and even Freeman had at least one if not all of these adjectives used to describe them as players prior to their draft year.

So what is it about Gabbert that's special?? Tools?? Okay. Intangibles?? But what good are they if they don't manifest themselves on gameday??

I don't foresee any scenario where Gabbert is a flat out bust because I believe he's always going to studiously know the playbook and study the gameplan.

Being a grind will mean he will at least be a middle-of-the-pack NFL starter at worst.
But that's not a guy you take top 5.
__________________

Last edited by FUNBUNCHER : 04-08-2011 at 03:54 PM.
FUNBUNCHER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 01:22 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Iamcanadian, what if I told you that I've been a HS football coach for 20 years and have sent 5 QBs to Div. 1 football on scholarship to play QB???

Quote:
Having coached baseball for 25 years, I'd take your opinion in these circustances with more weight if it was true.
Would my opinion be any more 'valid' then??

Quote:
Certainly would
!

That was a hypothetical BTW, I'm not a coach, although there are current and former HS coaches on this board.

My point is, you don't have to be an 'expert', or someone who has worked in a paid capacity for an NFL team to have a legitimate critique of a prospect, especially a QB.

Quote:
I'm not saying you cannot critique a prospect and express real doubts, but your discription was a bit off the charts.

"Gabbert is figment, an invention, and his negatives are glossed over in an effort to mold him into an elite prospect."
In a way, scouting the QB position for a lay person is the easiest position to scout because you see them take the ball on every snap. The only thing a fan doesn't get a chance to see are the reads that QB is seeing when he drops back or is in the shotgun.

Quote:
I disagree, I've been at it a long time and QB is a tough position to judge. Arm strength is almost impossible to judge on TV and every year, people attack the current crop of QB mercifully. College HC's protect their players weaknesses and often don't ask them to do what they aren't good at, disguising their weaknesses as much as possible. They may never ask them to make a throw in which their arm strength would be exposed. However as a pro they have to be able to make every throw.
It is almost impossible on college games to see how well a QB finds his secondary receivers and there is such a variance in talent in teams that dominance often tells you zero about pro potential.
Spread QB's are often asked to use timing systems so judging them before the post season is practically impossible. We saw Gabbert at the combine and his pro day but he has continued to workout as a pro QB for numerous teams and I'm sure he has improved significantly in every aspect of his game as the post season progresses. When you have a private workout for a team, they put you through hell, this isn't some rehearsed practice, this is the real deal where you are asked to run their offense, they take you into the film room and query you mercifully on reads, and these guys are used to dealing with pro QB's and it is extremely difficult to fool them.
I could go on and on.
A fan can observe how well a QB prospect has a command of the offense, how he throws the football, how well a QB anticipates routes, his mid to deep accuracy, how he handles a pass rush, and what a QB does when the play breaks down.

Quote:
I agree that an experienced draftnik who has some talent at appraising can reach a different conclusion and to express it in a way that makes sense is OK with me. Again, your description just seemed a bit much.
Other than throwing, none of the previous IMO appeared to be a strength of Gabbert's last season.

Here's the thing with Gabbert that really bothers me. For the most part on boards like SWDC draftniks and professionals generally have a similar take on roughly the top 32 prospects. THere may be some debate about the order, but the top guys generally have a consensus behind them, or at least the negatives/positives in their game are readily identified.

I don't know of many on this board who view Gabbert as a 'special' QB prospect, despite the opinion of experts. Yes, he has some nice tools and most acknowledge it appears he's going to be drafted high this April, but there's very little vocal defense of him as a player IMO.

To me that's unusual.

You will find over time that when it comes to QB's, opinion are all over the place on draft sites EVERY YEAR and most turnout to be total junk. It is usually just poor analysis by posters looking for their moment in the sun.
Guys who were right once in a decade and think they know it all.
Again, I'm looking for real analysis before I take them seriously and when they say something that is totally refuted by pro scouts and GM's, I question their ability.

Quote:
IMO, most QB's flop because they lack the mental toughness to get up after a bad play or too much pressure, and just go on to the next play like nothing had happened. Some flop because they have zero committment to work on their game. Few every fail for any of the rest of the stuff usually talked about on this and other sites. Here the pros are usually right on.
Mental toughness is a tough nut to crack which is why not even pro scouts can be counted on to be correct all the time, but unfortunately, it is even tougher for draftniks to judge.
Even those who have the most questions about Cam Newton readily admit he's a unique and talented football player, whether or not he will continue to develop in the pros at QB.

Quote:
I still think it will come down to Newton's mental toughness and I like what I have seen. I don't know if he will be too much of a me person but if he flops, it won't be because he couldn't take the pressure IMO and that carries a lot of weight with me.
As I've pointed out numerous times, if you watch a QB play in college and don't come away impressed with his level of play for the entire game, it's hard IMO to project him as a top prospect.

Quote:
If this were true, every All American QB would make an excellent pro. The talent level is so different among college teams that you have to be real careful in assessing pro potential. Add in college coaches protecting player's weaknesses and it opens up a whole different way of observing a prospect.
I personally have heard anyone on NFLN, ESPN or this board once describe Gabbert as 'dominant', 'game-changer', 'clutch', 'difference maker', 'winner' or 'rare prospect'.

This is called a 'red flag'.

Quote:
Well Gabbert came out of a college as a junior on a very inexperienced college team. This isn't Oklahoma or Texas who just retool, Missouri is not a college powerhouse.
I didn't hear too much of the above in describing Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman and I heard a lot of criticism of Bradford(Spread QB), Stafford(Not the most accurate QB) and Ryan(Again not the most accurate QB in college).
Bradford, Ryan, Stafford, Sanchez, Flacco and even Freeman had at least one if not all of these adjectives used to describe them as players prior to their draft year.

So what is it about Gabbert that's special?? Tools?? Okay. Intangibles?? But what good are they if they don't manifest themselves on gameday??

Quote:
What was Missouri's record for a school that really isn't a football powerhouse and how experienced was his team, and how many of his team are prospects for this year's draft????
I don't foresee any scenario where Gabbert is a flat out bust because I believe he's always going to studiously know the playbook and study the gameplan.

Being a grind will mean he will at least be a middle-of-the-pack NFL starter at worst.
But that's not a guy you take top 5.
I'll add that Casserly by his rankings obviously is saying Gabbert has a lot of assets that QB's on that list just don't have. He is saying he talked to numerous people, GM's and scouts who love Gabbert talent level, he saying he thinks Gabbert should go #1 overall(yes, he said that).
Could he be wrong and you right, yes, it is possible, he's been dead wrong before, but is he dead wrong on what he sees on film vs how much mental toughness does Gabbert have. I think you will have a hard time convincing me that he is misreading game film. Does Gabbert have the mental toughness to be a true franchise QB, I doubt anybody has the answer to that question.
__________________
And proud of it!!!

Last edited by Iamcanadian : 04-08-2011 at 01:25 PM.
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 01:52 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,722
Reputation: 3521473
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

To me Gabbert is potentially Matt Ryan and at the least Mark Sanchez. (probably somewhere in the middle) As for Casserly he got on board early with Blaine and just isnt going to listen to any other arguments in support of other QBs in this draft. If the guy was responsible for reaching for David Carr and Heath Shuler i put him somewhere at the lower end of posters on this site as far as evaluating QBs go.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
To me Gabbert is potentially Matt Ryan and at the least Mark Sanchez. (probably somewhere in the middle) As for Casserly he got on board early with Blaine and just isnt going to listen to any other arguments in support of other QBs in this draft. If the guy was responsible for reaching for David Carr and Heath Shuler i put him somewhere at the lower end of posters on this site as far as evaluating QBs go.
If Mayock didn't agree with Casserly I'd view his opinion on Gabbert as very suspicious, past record at drafting positions counts a lot with me, however, Mayock has been pretty solid on QB's so what do you do?
I tend to agree that Gabbert is a cross between Ryan and Sanchez overall but he does have a better arm than either of those 2. Face it, we won't know all about Sanchez for a year or 2 because he came out as a junior while Ryan came out as a senior. Gabbert's a junior, so likely we are looking at 3 or 4 years before we see his full potential realized.
Again, I don't really have enough access to Newton to get a true read on his personality but I'm sure he won't flop because of mental toughness, nothing seemed to bother him last season when I watched him and that is a big plus for me.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 02:07 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think that there's a tendency with boom-or-bust prospects in the media to praise them in public rather than express your concerns. Ultimately, you have to maintain a relationship with professional football players as a media member (the higher up you are the more maintaining amicable relationships is actually relevant to your call) and ripping a guy early on is potentially a way to end up on a player's bad side in such a way that you can't get off it if/when he becomes a star (look at Tony Kornheiser and Aaron Rodgers, for example). So to that extent, anybody who may become a star you don't want to convince him to hate you early on.

Furthermore, it's just the nature of the business that people get held accountable for undervaluing prospects much more than overvaluing them. Very few people are ripped for having Jamarcus Russell high on their boards in 2007, despite the fact that he was a colossal bust. Very few people are ripped for having Jimmy Clausen high on their boards last year, despite the fact that he was so underwhelming that Carolina may well spend the #1 overall pick on a QB the year after drafting him. When guys fail to live up to expectations, the people who set those expectations can always come up with reasons (injury, bad schematic fit, bad locker room environment, got lazy once he got paid, etc.) that are generally accepted by the public. On the other hand, when a prospect ends up much better than anybody anticipated, then the "experts" look foolish for not being able to see what a great player that he would be.

So I think there's just a systematic bias in the media to overvalue prospects, since that serves their needs. So one must take all these stories with a grain of salt.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,722
Reputation: 3521473
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
If Mayock didn't agree with Casserly I'd view his opinion on Gabbert as very suspicious, past record at drafting positions counts a lot with me, however, Mayock has been pretty solid on QB's so what do you do?
I tend to agree that Gabbert is a cross between Ryan and Sanchez overall but he does have a better arm than either of those 2. Face it, we won't know all about Sanchez for a year or 2 because he came out as a junior while Ryan came out as a senior. Gabbert's a junior, so likely we are looking at 3 or 4 years before we see his full potential realized.
Again, I don't really have enough access to Newton to get a true read on his personality but I'm sure he won't flop because of mental toughness, nothing seemed to bother him last season when I watched him and that is a big plus for me.
Is Gabbert's arm all that strong?
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,934
Reputation: 436314
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't know about that always being the case. Mayock doesn't seem to have a problem with it and neither does Casserly, they have criticized plenty of prospects. 3 for Mayock come to mind quickly, Newton, Houston and Brandon Harris. Casserly hates Newton and openly says he wouldn't touch him in round 1, says Brandon Harris is a 3rd rounder for him, totally doesn't see Locker in round 1.
That is why I say NFLN has become like a real war room with real differences of opinion. Most of them stick to their guns and tell it like it is for them.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.