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Old 03-05-2011, 12:37 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
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That's very harsh on Marcus Gilbert, but I tend to agree with that sentiment.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Texas Homer View Post
I'm just curious. Have you heard anyone else express that Williams might have a lack of physicality as a CB?

I haven't. This is the first time that I have ever heard anyone imply that.
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Agreed.

I don't think it was a huge knock, but I think "willing tackler" and "physical (aggressive,especially as it pertains to press coverage" are two different things and that's what I think the scout was saying.

Williams still looks like a nice prospect.
I think that's the best way to put it. I didn't have much of a problem with his physicality, but I can see what the scout was saying. I still like Williams as a prospect quite a bit with that being said.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
Why would Paea's lack of height preclude him from being a NT? I'd rather have a shorter guy with leverage than a 6'5 behemoth who's raw strength can be undone by centers getting under him and out leveraging him.
I think the "he's got a height issue" and "he's a 3-tech, not an NT" are unrelated comments. Since he certainly isn't tall, and he doesn't play like your classic 2-gapping nose tackle (as he's more of a penetrator.) That being said, of course, if he were allowed the same responsibilities as a Jay Ratliff in your defense, he could do fine at NT.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I remember these from the past few years. Where's the actual article link?

I agree with a lot of it (Baldwin stiffness, Kerrigan stiffness, Liuget monster, Taylor monster, Austin talented, Pouncey not as strong as his brother). And Paea doesn't play like a NT - he's more of a penetrator than anchor.

What I don't understand is how Brandon Harris is a 2nd-3rd round pick??? Size?
Mike Mayock thought the exact same thing before the combine
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I've never considered Paea as a NT prospect. Just doesn't have the right build or skillset for it. In a one gap system, sure, I can buy it...but that's a bit of a stretch too even.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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"Brandon Harris - 3rd rounder"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Amazing that some of these guys have jobs still.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I thought it was interesting what he said about the top OTs, like Solder, Carimi and Costanzo being very tall and angular guys.

None of the top OTs are monsters like Jake Long, they look more like Basktball Power Forwards.

I keep getting the feeling that teams boards when it comes to OL are going to shock us.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
Keep in mind that tackling NFL players is harder than bringing down a Colorado return man who happens to be standing still.
I was thinking the same thing... and also was wondering why Williams had to forklift the guy instead of landing a kill shot.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Texas Homer View Post
I'll try and stay away from this thread though as not to clutter it up on my thoughts on this b/c I am biased and could probably go on-and-on all day on this.

Thanks for posting.

His thoughts are definitely interesting.
Why? It's not like you're a Texas-homer or anything... oh, wait, yeah, I get it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I am surprised that the only guys on the OL that he indicates will be starters early are, Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod and maybe Orlando Franklin.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I love Jonathan Baldwin, but 'best hands in draft'???

Over the top praise IMO. At best you could only say he has 'some of the best hands', or ' equal to' the other top prospects coming out.

How does Baldwin have better hands than AJ Green?? That would be like saying Baldwin NEVER DROPPED A PASS. Ever. Even when the ball wasn't thrown directly to him.

Alliquippa don't miss!!11!1!1!!



Anyways this was a good read, I look forward to these every off-season. It's just 1 scout, so you have to take things with a grain of salt because another scout can think the complete opposite of 1 player.






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Originally Posted by etk View Post
"Brandon Harris - 3rd rounder"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Amazing that some of these guys have jobs still.


I didn't know you had a crystal ball that told you which players would become good pros, otherwise I don't see the huge problem. Harris could very well be drafted in the early part of the 2nd round, he'd only be a round off with his projection.


I remember just reading something that said Jim Harbaugh had David Carr rated as a 6th round QB the year he came out, that crazy ol' Jim what a wonder he still has a job right? You can't expect a guy to just rank a player where everyone else is if he doesn't see that on film or feel the same way.



But according to you he should be fired because his
pre-draft ranking is terrible even though Harris has yet to step foot on an NFL field.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Harris could very well be drafted in the early part of the 2nd round, he'd only be a round off with his projection.
A round is a lot when you consider that it is that high in the draft. . . I mean, no one has Marcell Dareus in the second round or even likely past NE the first time (I doubt any good scout has him outside of the top 10).

Harris may well go in round 3 though. Good players do fall for some reason.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
A round is a lot when you consider that it is that high in the draft. . . I mean, no one has Marcell Dareus in the second round or even likely past NE the first time (I doubt any good scout has him outside of the top 10).

Harris may well go in round 3 though. Good players do fall for some reason.


Even Scott in his own rankings and projections call players "2nd-3rd round prospect". Not many people are going out and calling guys a 2nd rounder, or 3rd rounder, and round off in that scenario isn't that much IMO. There are a ton of guys who will end up 2nd round picks only because 1 team decided to reach when the rest of the teams would wait, same reason a bunch of guys end up 3rd round picks because they just slide further.



I don't think anyone saw Everson Griffin going to the 4th round last year after being mocked late 1st at this point in the process. I don't think Harris is an elite prospect, so I didn't see anything wrong with the comments(even though it's just as likely that he goes in the 1st as he does in the 3rd).
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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You planning on perhaps providing a link or do you want to keep screwing the author out of the clicks?
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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You planning on perhaps providing a link or do you want to keep screwing the author out of the clicks?
It's actually an article behind a paywall on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel website, so you're not exactly denying them clicks since I doubt most people here are going to subscribe to "Packer Insider" ($6.95/month, $44.95/year). It may have been in the MJS print edition last week, I can't rightly say.

Someone could probably c/p the whole article here, but I think the copyright holders would like it even less than someone just lifting specific quotes, as the latter falls somewhat within the grounds of "fair use."

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Old 03-06-2011, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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yeah the dude didnt even use the full quotes so hes in the right... i think
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.

SSDD
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.
Exactly. And all of it almost creates a collective groan that basically says "Didn't you see Scott's rankings?!!?"

These guys aren't pulling the trigger on making these picks for the teams. They don't read your mock. They might not even really know what the personnel decisions the team they work for plans to make. Their job is to scout these guys and give an evaluation on the types of players they are. This is professional insight, not the secret tell-all interview of what prospect is going to be drafted where.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...

Quote:
Cam Newton - " a big time athlete-he's more smooth and fluid than explosive. His mechanics are all off. He's more of a thrower than passer. He's got that flashy smile and the look in his eye and he's way too scripted-I don't like it. He's too fake. "

Tandon Doss - " might have the best hands in the draft. He's going to make a killing in the slot in this league. "

Torrey Smith - " has a great story. I wanted to like him when I read about his mom-he's a great story. Those Maryland WRs run fast. He'll tear it up on the track. But I watched 5 games and kept waiting for him to show up, and he didn't. He disappears too much for me. "

Jerel Jernigan - " will need time to learn routes. He's really little. Steve Smith (Panthers) went in the 3rd round and was more explosive than him. Mike Wallace was more explosive. Mike Thomas went in the 4th and was a better football player. For a little guy, I wish he were more explosive and shifty "

Virgil Green - " didn't get a lot of love from scouts during the fall, but he made a one handed grab on the sideline where he laid out, and you saw everyone start scribbling in their notebooks. He's more than just the workout warrior that he gets labeled as. "

James Brewer - " has long arms. He's a good athlete. He can run. He's a helluva zone blocker. You don't see him maul anyone in the run blocking, but he has the feet to play on the left side. They had Saffold there, so they kept him on the right side. "

Gabe Carimi - " is a big ole Wis. kid. He's not powerful, and he's not a good athlete. He falls off blocks. He's a leaner. Someone will take him high up there, but it won't be us. He's a right tackle for me. "

Derek Sherrod - " will start in the league, but I would be surprised if he's starting at LT. He doesn't get challenged much. We like him as a OG. "

Adrian Clayborn - " I'll take the one armed ass kicker over most of these guys. His arm is scary. It's noticeable in practice. He's still a damn good player but we'll leave it in the hands of the medical people. "

Corey Liuget - " is a quick and instinctive 3tech. A good athlete and plays with good effort. Even though we play in a 40 front, we want our guys bigger inside. Our coaches would be looking at us funny if we brought him here. He's not big enough for us. We wouldn't look at him until the 3rd. "

Phil Taylor - " flashed in one on one drills-he did not light it up. He pushes up field in drills but you get to team situations, he gets walled off and stuck. "

Casey Matthews - " is active but golly, he is short armed with small hands. He's a short, compact, self made, pumped up guy. I know everyone is going to get wrapped up in his name-I get it and I like his instincts-but he can't wrap or take on blocks. "

Martez Wilson - " is stiff, stiff, stiff-he can't bend down and touch his own ankles. There is a lot to sort through with him, medically and off the field. I don't know what he does for you. "

Justin Houston - " I watched 5 games and I kept waiting for him to make plays, and he didn't do anything. You hear how great he is, but he is over sold in my opinion. I don't see the athletic ability or elite edge speed. "

Patrick Peterson - " goes low too much as a tackler-it drives me nuts. I'm usually dialed in to height-weight-speed prospects, but he is horrible freelancing. He's not good with his back to the ball. If he lands in our division, bombs away. "

Prince Amukamara - " gets caught with his eyes in the backfield a lot-that's why they get him with the back shoulder throws and double moves. He likes to peek and squat. College OCs figured it out. They will go after him at our level. "

Jimmy Smith - " is really talented but I would not touch him. He's too inconsistent for me-he has good games and bad games. I don't like the way he competes. "

Ahmad Black - " is small, and we're not talking about Bob Sanders. Even if he pumps up to 190, he's still small at the end of the day. This is a big man's game. What I always ask myself is-could this guy step in front of Steven Jackson and Adrian Peterson and tackle. I don't see it. Some one else might like him early, but I don't. I think he has to be a CB."

Tyler Sash - " I like his instincts. He's somewhere in that same caliber of player as Giordano, Zbikowski, who I thought was overdrafted, and Sean Considine. "
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Last edited by Brown Leader : 03-08-2011 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:29 AM    (permalink
GaMeTiMe
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^All I can say to that is WOW.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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That scout is one Negative Nancy.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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*EDITS PROSPECT GRADES*

Tandon Doss = 9.8

Everyone else = 5 or lower
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
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That scout is one Negative Nancy.
When your opinion will decide who will get millions and millions of dollars, yeah it's gonna happen.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:37 AM    (permalink
GB12
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Just so you know, the quotes in the original post are from a number of different scouts, not one guy.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:41 AM    (permalink
bam bam
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I love hearing scouts honest quotes. Usually in public interview scouts will always talk about the positive things and talk up guys, and it drives me nuts because I know there's a lot of dirt they can put out there. Eric DeCosta does it all the time. I guess they have to be this way so they dont tip their hand to other teams.
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