Merril Hoge Nails Gabbert Evaluation

[metafour]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6246408


How is it that this guy is the only one to notice that Gabbert's pocket awareness and movement in the pocket is quite honestly the absolute worst displayed by a supposed "elite" QB prospect in YEARS? I just dont get it...watch any tape, it is so obvious...yet for such a huge flaw it appears to constantly get overlooked.

Gabbert continually panics in the pocket and bails. He will routinely feel pressure that flat out isn't there which results in him looking like a chicken with it's head cut off. He rarely steps into the pocket; and as nailed by Hoge, the run towards the sideline is a pure signature move by him any time his guy isn't open.

There has been a lot of banter about what makes top QB draftees bust. To me; a guy who panics in the pocket is absolutely toast in the NFL. Gabbert simply does not look comfortable, at all. This is a much much bigger flaw than Newton's mechanics and footwork working from a 3, 5, 7 step drop. That is easily correctable (and is something that was largely improved from Newton's Combine to Pro Day). Trying to teach a guy to instinctively "feel" what is happening around him and act level-headily is something that is more or less un-coachable. The scary thing is that the game on the NFL level gets faster, not slower. As a Bills fan both Losman and Edwards succumbed to a complete inability to deal with defenders running around them. There isn't a single elite QB in the NFL who struggles with pocket awareness. This should be a red-flag the size of Texas, yet somehow not only has it rarely been brought up as a serious flaw; Gabbert's "stock" is actually supposedly rising. It is really mind boggling...I've been waiting since Gabbert declared for someone to say "uhh...this kid looks really awkward moving around the pocket", and it seems like Hoge may be the only sane "evaluator" out there.

The game-losing interception against Iowa is a picture perfect example of this. Game on the line; Gabbert has great protection...his primary target isn't there...he panics and bolts to the sideline then proceeds to throw one of the worst passes in recent memory right at an Iowa defender.

[dannyz]

When has Gabbert ever been considered Elite?

[metafour]

Originally Posted by dannyz

When has Gabbert ever been considered Elite?

I dont know; since it seems like everyone is starting to jump on board for him to go #1 overall?

[prock]

Originally Posted by dannyz

When has Gabbert ever been considered Elite?

Maybe elite isn't the right word. Try replacing "elite" with "top".

[FUNBUNCHER]

If Gabbert turns into a spectacular bust like Heath Shuler, there are 'professional' draft analysts on cable who are going to be hard pressed to give an explanation as to how they missed so badly on him.

Gabbert looks scared in the pocket if he's not in rhythm throwing the football, and the slightest movement towards the LOS by a blitzing defender makes him lose his mind.


That Iowa blitzer was picked up clean on the youtube clip posted in this thread, yet Gabbert trucked out of there like 15 guys were coming clean!!

If a QB can't handle the presence of pressure, real or perceived, from within the pocket, he can't play in the NFL.

Gabbert looks like a guy who's been sacked 60 times a year at Mizzou.

If he goes to the Panthers, who couldn't protect Clausen, he's almost guaranteed to bust big-time.

[Halsey]

Hoge likes Gabbert enough to take him late first, early 2nd. He obviously thinks Gabbert has a chance to be a good NFL starter. The Panthers don't have the option of taking a perfect QB prospect, but without a QB they will be boring and irrelevant.

[Scott Wright]

All of this year's top quarterbacks have warts, Gabbert just has far fewer than the others.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

All of this year's top quarterbacks have warts, Gabbert just has far fewer than the others.

I don't see any QB potentially in next year's Draft, other than Luck, who strikes me as a sure bet to be a better prospect than Gabbert. You? I expect Barkley to be rated higher, but am not completely convinced. Everyone else in college has major questions too.

[Scott Wright]

Originally Posted by Halsey

I don't see any QB potentially in next year's Draft, other than Luck, who strikes me as a sure bet to be a better prospect than Gabbert. You? I expect Barkley to be rated higher, but am not completely convinced. Everyone else in college has major questions too.

At this point I agree. That is why everyone expected Gabbert to be the favorite to go #1 overall in the 2012 NFL Draft had he gone back to school and Luck come out this year. I am not sold on USC's Matt Barkley as Top 10 material yet but I am intrigued by Oklahoma's Landry Jones.

[prock]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

All of this year's top quarterbacks have warts, Gabbert just has far fewer than the others.

The point was about the number of flaws. It was about the importance of the flaws. Could you expand on why Gabbert's tendency to freak the **** out at any sign of pressure is less of a flaw than a mechanical flaw in the throwing motion, for example?

[Scott Wright]

Originally Posted by prock

The point was about the number of flaws. It was about the importance of the flaws. Could you expand on why Gabbert's tendency to freak the **** out at any sign of pressure is less of a flaw than a mechanical flaw in the throwing motion, for example?

Well, most quarterbacks (especially young ones) tend to struggle with pressure. Nobody likes defensive monsters bearing down on them or hanging out around their feet and knees. With that said, I don't know Gabbert has nearly as much of an issue with this as Ryan Mallett does. In fact, I've seen tape where Gabbert displays some Roethlisberger-esque qualities in the pocket under duress. I think with additional experience Gabbert will learn to handle it better and his issues aren't for a lack of toughness or guts because he has those in spades.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

All of this year's top quarterbacks have warts, people in the media just don't talk about Gabbert's.

Fixed it for you.

[4U2NV]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Hoge likes Gabbert enough to take him late first, early 2nd. He obviously thinks Gabbert has a chance to be a good NFL starter. The Panthers don't have the option of taking a perfect QB prospect, but without a QB they will be boring and irrelevant.

This to me is the biggest flaw in Carolina's thinking...or "supposed" thinking I guess since the selection hasn't been made yet. Yes, QB is a huge need for them, but they've also got a ton of other needs as well. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you should take one if there's a better prospect at another position.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the Panthers aren't going to be competing for a Super Bowl anytime soon, so why not show a little patience in the process and opt to take somebody on the other side of the ball to improve their defence and look to take a developmental QB later in the draft? Or, try and sign a veteran QB that can serve as a stop-gap solution until you can get that franchise guy.

It almost seems like the Panthers are "settling" for either Gabbert or Newton instead of actually believing that either of them could be the franchise QB they're lacking. As soon as Luck chose to stay at Stanford, that was the day that they should have looked at another position. With the #1 pick in the draft, you take as close to a sure thing as you can, not a question mark who needs to be developed like crazy.

If anything, A.J. Green should be an option so that when they finally do land that franchise QB, he's already got an elite weapon to work with. Dareus or Peterson would do wonders for that team too. I just don't get why Carolina is walking down this path when there are way more options out there that might be a safer and less risky option.

(Of course they could still shock the world and not choose a QB at 1, but that's looking unlikely).

[Halsey]

If you don't have a QB it doesn't matter if you get a stud WR or stud CB or whatever. You have to have a QB. That cannot be overstated. Miami passed on a QB to take a 'stud LT' a couple of years ago. How's that working out? Carolina should think long and hard about passing up a chance to take the top QB in the Draft.

[Scott Wright]

Originally Posted by Halsey

If you don't have a QB it doesn't matter if you get a stud WR or stud CB or whatever. You have to have a QB. That cannot be overstated. Miami passed on a QB to take a 'stud LT' a couple of years ago. How's that working out? Carolina should think long and hard about passing up a chance to take the top QB in the Draft.

My Thoughts Exactly.

Without a quarterback, nothing else matters.

[toonsterwu]

meta - I don't think people are really overlooking his lack of pocket poise. The question is this - is this a byproduct of playing in a system where pocket poise wasn't necessarily asked? Or is this something that reflects upon him? If you believe in the latter, as you seem to imply, then sure, I'd pass. If you believe that his pocket poise can be improved as he adjusts, then you're more likely to take the chance. I think there's enough people that believe that it is a byproduct of playing in the system, but again, it's guesswork.

[Pat Sims 90]

Originally Posted by Halsey

If you don't have a QB it doesn't matter if you get a stud WR or stud CB or whatever. You have to have a QB. That cannot be overstated. Miami passed on a QB to take a 'stud LT' a couple of years ago. How's that working out? Carolina should think long and hard about passing up a chance to take the top QB in the Draft.

Expect if u have no OL that can pass block you have no business taking a QB that high because i don't care what QB u are they will not produce in the NFL if no one is protecting them. Kinda like the situation the Bengals are in at this point.

[TACKLE]

Originally Posted by toonsterwu

meta - I don't think people are really overlooking his lack of pocket poise. The question is this - is this a byproduct of playing in a system where pocket poise wasn't necessarily asked? Or is this something that reflects upon him? If you believe in the latter, as you seem to imply, then sure, I'd pass. If you believe that his pocket poise can be improved as he adjusts, then you're more likely to take the chance. I think there's enough people that believe that it is a byproduct of playing in the system, but again, it's guesswork.

I can buy both sides and I've outlined previously why Missouri's offense was such a poor fit for him. With that being said, I'm inclined to believe that is pocket poise reflex more on him. Either way, pocket poise is more based of mentality and innate feel. If you lack those things, its very hard to gain them imo. Although poise is viewed as a tangible thing, I think its every bit intangible. It is something you can improve on (much like leadership, character, work ethic, etc.) but its important that you have a solid fundamental base in this area to build off. I just can't say that watching Gabbert, I even seen signs or flashes of him having that ability.

[D-Unit]

I haven't been a fan of Gabbert's from the start. For better or worse, I'm on Newton's bandwagon.

That said, I don't even think Carolina should feel forced to take a QB. Not with these options. Clausen has the same amount of warts and I'm interested to see what he could do with a better supporting cast.

A QB without a supporting cast always looks bad. They should consider trading down to add more picks. Isn't that their best option?

[metafour]

Originally Posted by toonsterwu

meta - I don't think people are really overlooking his lack of pocket poise. The question is this - is this a byproduct of playing in a system where pocket poise wasn't necessarily asked? Or is this something that reflects upon him? If you believe in the latter, as you seem to imply, then sure, I'd pass. If you believe that his pocket poise can be improved as he adjusts, then you're more likely to take the chance. I think there's enough people that believe that it is a byproduct of playing in the system, but again, it's guesswork.

I dont see why any system would ask the quarterback to freely step out of a perfectly fine pocket so that he can run to the sideline when there is all kinds of room to either step forward or stand tall.

The thing that kills me is the continuous talk about Newton being a "one read and run" quarterback....Gabbert absolutely fits the same description yet instead of running north/south like Newton does he runs sideways and just puts himself into horrible situations. Newton moves with a purpose whereas the great deal of the time Gabbert's movement in the pocket is simply unexplainable.

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Halsey

If you don't have a QB it doesn't matter if you get a stud WR or stud CB or whatever. You have to have a QB. That cannot be overstated. Miami passed on a QB to take a 'stud LT' a couple of years ago. How's that working out? Carolina should think long and hard about passing up a chance to take the top QB in the Draft.

On the same note though the Raiders didn't pass on a QB when they took J-Rock did the Cardinals when they took Leinart Titans when they took Vince. The Browns DID in fact pass on a QB when they took Joe Thomas and still ended up with Quinn. So while in theory what you say is true but a bust at the QB position will set you back 5-7 years so don't pass on a QB if you think he is the guy but also don't take a qb just because your current one sucks.

[4U2NV]

Originally Posted by broth223

On the same note though the Raiders didn't pass on a QB when they took J-Rock did the Cardinals when they took Leinart Titans when they took Vince. The Browns DID in fact pass on a QB when they took Joe Thomas and still ended up with Quinn. So while in theory what you say is true but a bust at the QB position will set you back 5-7 years so don't pass on a QB if you think he is the guy but also don't take a qb just because your current one sucks.

Exactly. That's why I think it's in Carolina's best interests to sign a veteran once free agency starts as a stop-gap solution while trying their luck against with next year's class. If I was the Panthers, I'd rather have a Marcell Dareus for example than a potential bust as my top selection.

[holt_bruce81]

This is what people in this forum have been talking about ever since Gabbert was rated as one of the top Quarterbacks.

I said right when he declared I would take him in the 2nd round, but stated teams are going to fall in love with his physical attributes and he will likely go top 20. No where did I see the 1st overall selection for Gabbert.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by broth223

On the same note though the Raiders didn't pass on a QB when they took J-Rock did the Cardinals when they took Leinart Titans when they took Vince. The Browns DID in fact pass on a QB when they took Joe Thomas and still ended up with Quinn. So while in theory what you say is true but a bust at the QB position will set you back 5-7 years

A hit at the QB position will set a franchise forward a decade or more. For every top QB that was a bust there's one who was/is a star. Most top QBs were first round picks.

Every player is a gamble. It's not like QB is the only position that busts. Courtney Brown was also a Browns Draft choice.

Originally Posted by broth223

don't take a qb just because your current one sucks.[/b]

They won't be taking him for that reason. They obviously wouldn't be taking him if they didn't think he cold upgrade their starting QB position. That's a pretty good reason to take a QB. Taking the Draft's top QB is not a bad football decision. Even if some other less valuable players are more 'talented'.

[Big Bird]

It's disturbing and what I've been most concerned about with Gabbert. He reminds me of Joey Harrington. Blaine has solid tools, wouldn't say elite, but solid, but he just simply panics and makes poor decisions because of it, much like Harrington.

The worst part about is that he is always altering his launch points. Offensive Lineman block to keep defenders away from a certain spot, where the Quarterback is suppose to throw the ball. With Gabbert constantly bailing on that launch point, he is giving the defenders an edge that Offensive Lineman can't overcome because their back is to the Quarterback.