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Old 04-01-2011, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
And for all of you girly boys whining about Cam being tweated unfaiwee, PFT and others are still projecting him FIRST.
Interesting the panthers and Bills from what I read like Cam Newton the most and the Cardinals like neither.I am assuming the Bengals like Cam more because of what I read on this forum. John Elway is the widcard in this draft IDK what he is thinking.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
God there are some ridiculous quotes in this thread.

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Are you calling Cam a 'system QB'???

Shame on you.
And you're still talking? And then you're shaming people on top of it? You said one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, wait, not dumb but a complete lie based on unconscionable ignorance and here you are...
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
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I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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Old 04-01-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I agree that the Panthers need to trade back if they can, big if though. I think the Bills should take a shot at Newton. The main reason being that they might relocate soon. Newton will help sell tickets/ jerseys there. Also, this system gives him the beat chance to succeed, Fitzpatrick can play the whole year and Newton can learn behind him. They really need to bring in some veteran leadership, since I think Newton's ego is going to be a problem.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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And you're still talking? And then you're shaming people on top of it? You said one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, wait, not dumb but a complete lie based on unconscionable ignorance and here you are...
Refresh me, BB.

Anyway, it couldn't have been as dumb as the several page write-up someone posted on SWDC last spring that Sam Bradford was a bum prospect and in no way was he an NFL caliber QB, could it??

For the record, you can't deliberately 'lie' and be 'ignorant' at the same time.
A lie assumes intent, intent assumes one knows the truth but still chooses to prevaricate.

If I post an opinion or what I believe to be a fact, there's no hidden agenda on my part to deceive anyone.

You of all people BB shouldn't take your own opinion about anything too highly.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Default All of you appear to be so hypocritical

I have been reading posts on this site for years, but now I think it is the time for me to chip in. I remember when Josh Freeman entered the draft, everyone was saying he was going to be a bust. He was inaccurate, no football IQ. Hardly anything positive from most of the members in this board. When Mike Vick got out of prison, I just remember the ridicule he faced early on. When he did not look close to himself upon his return, most of you thought he was washed up. When he was name the starter all of you though it was going to be an epic fail. Look at what happened.

Now most people for whatever reason think Newton will be a bust because he of whatever. Folks here are comparing him to Jamarcus Russell. What most of you are missing is that this man already has mentors and NFL advisors. They wont let him fail. Russell hardly had any support and help The Carolina Panthers should pick him number 1. I think they will. Cam Newton is a winner, a winner, compared to Blaine Gabbert. Clausen did not win anythin at ND, just like ALex Smith and Tim Couch. Most QB who win in college, are going to win in the NFL. BTW Vince Young is still has had the better career over Matt Leinhart, you can not deny that.

Overall I think most of you are afraid that the black QB will take over the NFL in the future. You see it happening in the college game. So most of you break down and use all the stereotypes you can use on a black QB because you do not want to see that position be predominantly black. Cam Newton will be the best QB in this class, you just watch and see.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Overall I think most of you are afraid that the black QB will take over the NFL in the future. You see it happening in the college game. So most of you break down and use all the stereotypes you can use on a black QB because you do not want to see that position be predominantly black. Cam Newton will be the best QB in this class, you just watch and see.
Should have done everyone a favor and kept lurking.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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I have been reading posts on this site for years, but now I think it is the time for me to chip in. I remember when Josh Freeman entered the draft, everyone was saying he was going to be a bust. He was inaccurate, no football IQ. Hardly anything positive from most of the members in this board. When Mike Vick got out of prison, I just remember the ridicule he faced early on. When he did not look close to himself upon his return, most of you thought he was washed up. When he was name the starter all of you though it was going to be an epic fail. Look at what happened.

Now most people for whatever reason think Newton will be a bust because he of whatever. Folks here are comparing him to Jamarcus Russell. What most of you are missing is that this man already has mentors and NFL advisors. They wont let him fail. Russell hardly had any support and help The Carolina Panthers should pick him number 1. I think they will. Cam Newton is a winner, a winner, compared to Blaine Gabbert. Clausen did not win anythin at ND, just like ALex Smith and Tim Couch. Most QB who win in college, are going to win in the NFL. BTW Vince Young is still has had the better career over Matt Leinhart, you can not deny that.

Overall I think most of you are afraid that the black QB will take over the NFL in the future. You see it happening in the college game. So most of you break down and use all the stereotypes you can use on a black QB because you do not want to see that position be predominantly black. Cam Newton will be the best QB in this class, you just watch and see.
If it's about race, why are people also criticizing Ryan Mallett?

Or how about Tim Tebow?

Calling people who have concerns about Cam Newton racist is the flimsiest of arguments.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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God there are some ridiculous quotes in this thread.
I'm not sure what's ridiculous about what I said. If there were more African American quarterbacks who were successful (say superbowl winning franchise quarterbacks as a metric) then we wouldn't have to go through this whole ridiculous"people are only criticizing [black QB] because he's black" song and dance. People should be able to criticize Cam Newton, and he shouldn't have "you're a racist" to hide behind. The only realistic way to prevent this from happening to the next Cam Newton, or whoever, is for there to be some black quarterbacks who are actually successful beyond "he won some games"... so that we can stop being so hung up on the race of our signal callers.

Though, if society would just get over the whole "race matters" thing instead, that would be an acceptable substitute.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Cam Newton will be the best QB in this class, you just watch and see.
Rather than establishing that Newton will be the best of this crop, how about we just establish Newton's worth not-relative to other players. It's not clear that there are any QBs in this class who will actually be above-average NFL starters, barring a late round draft pick coming out of nowhere to be a star.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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If it's about race, why are people also criticizing Ryan Mallett?

Or how about Tim Tebow?

Calling people who have concerns about Cam Newton racist is the flimsiest of arguments.
This.

Mallett has far fewer and less dangerous character concerns than Cam Newton but the collective has appeared to extend him an olive branch and give him the benefit of the doubt in most situations, the same can't realistically be said of Mallet.

People are looking at Newton in terms of raw upside at this point and that's fair enough, that's perfectly fine however, players who's potential is viewed solidly on upside generally have to have near perfect character.

Tebow is a perfect case study in this instance. There is no doubt he's not going to be caught doing anything wrong off the field. He was known as someone who was completely dedicated to becoming the very best football player he could possibly become, he didn't want to be viewed or thought of as anything other than a future starter in the NFL at quarterback.

Newton might have mis-spoke calling himself an icon, and that's fair enough young guys put their foot in it every now and then. But when you've got a guy who's skating into the draft almost solely on what he could one day become when he hasn't shown the same solid character, history and determination to succeed at his craft it raises some legitimate concerns.

As a Panthers fan I wouldn't mind the pick, sure I'd be a little nervous about how he'd pan out and what it could do to the franchise if he turned out to be a bust, but it wouldn't cross my mind to say "I don't want a black quarterback" hell I wanted the team to go after Campbell in the free agent market and have posted in the past that trading for McNabb would be a solid short term option while the team developed any quarterback whether that be clausen or newton or gabbert moving forward.

This isn't a racial issue, it's an issue born of the fact that realistically speaking Newton is an athletic freak who can run, throw and take over games at the college level but has not yet demonstrated a firm commitment to becoming an NFL level quarterback and that includes a player who can lead a locker room of grizzled veterans, win the support of his fanbase and above all else forego everything else in his life for a year or two to learn a playbook, develop his mechanics and chemistry with those around him.

I have almost the exact same concerns about Gabbert, while I think he is committed to football and can lead a locker room, I simply don't know how long it'll take him to adjust to the NFL. In the same way I wouldn't mind if he was the pick but I wouldn't be enamored with it either.

Like it or not, None of the top 3 or 4 QBs in this class are the surefire picks that Luck would've been but if I had to pick the one guy who I thought would bust regardless of character and physical ability it would be Newton because in this day and age to succeed at quarterback especially, let alone in professional sports you need monk like dedication to your craft and I don't think Newton has shown that.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Refresh me, BB.
Gladly.


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Has anyone heard one TV draft analyst mention once that Cam set the NCAA record for passing efficiency?? No you haven't.
It's also one of my sig quotes. TV analysts wont ever mention Cam Newton setting the NCAA record for passing efficiency since, well, he DIDN'T set the record for passing efficiency.


I think the media has a bias against Terrell Owens since they don't ever mention the fact that he broke Jerry Rice's record for career TD receptions.

Do you see how plainly stupid that sounded? Don't answer that you glutton for punishment.


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I'm not sure what's ridiculous about what I said. If there were more African American quarterbacks who were successful (say superbowl winning franchise quarterbacks as a metric) then we wouldn't have to go through this whole ridiculous"people are only criticizing [black QB] because he's black" song and dance. People should be able to criticize Cam Newton, and he shouldn't have "you're a racist" to hide behind. The only realistic way to prevent this from happening to the next Cam Newton, or whoever, is for there to be some black quarterbacks who are actually successful beyond "he won some games"... so that we can stop being so hung up on the race of our signal callers.

Though, if society would just get over the whole "race matters" thing instead, that would be an acceptable substitute.
Race is always going to be brought up with everything and anything. Wishing for a perfect world where blacks are successful? Seriously, you don't see what's ridiculous about that?

Warren Moon is probably a racist himself. His moronic comments are just that. For, I guess, white people to get all pissy for being called a racist just because they don't like a black player... well, that's kind of silly and juvenile from a white person's perspective. It's a childish antic to divert the attention off of Cam Newton and onto a completely different debate that is less than baseless. For white people to carry on and drone on and say some of the **** that has been said in this thread is pretty pathetic. Feeling sorry for black people not being successful NFL QBs? Are you kidding me?
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
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I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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Old 04-01-2011, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Race is always going to be brought up with everything and anything. Wishing for a perfect world where blacks are successful? Seriously, you don't see what's ridiculous about that?
I disagree strenuously. Race will eventually be meaningless to future generations. The sooner that can happen, the happier I will be. The reason that you want people of [race] to [achieve accomplishment] for that to happen is that it will get people to stop talking about race as the reason why someone is or isn't successful.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Gladly.



It's also one of my sig quotes. TV analysts wont ever mention Cam Newton setting the NCAA record for passing efficiency since, well, he DIDN'T set the record for passing efficiency.


I think the media has a bias against Terrell Owens since they don't ever mention the fact that he broke Jerry Rice's record for career TD receptions.

Do you see how plainly stupid that sounded? Don't answer that you glutton for punishment.



Still not quite a " a complete lie based on unconscionable ignorance."

Unconscionable?? Really?? lol!

It was an overzealous mistake, not a sneaky little lie I tried to slide by the board.
If that's one of the dumbest things you've ever heard, you need to get around a little bit more BB.

And read some of your own posts.

Starting with your in-depth, hard hitting predraft analysis on 'Why Sam Bradford Sucks'.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...t=sam+bradford

I may be statistically challenged, BB, but you my friend, are blind.

Still, at least you admitted that Bradford was a solid 4th round developmental prospect.

'System QB','mentally underdeveloped','comes from a program that doesn't produce NFL QBs','accuracy' issues;

'Most people who don't know what they're talking about will say that Sam Bradford is an accurate passer. Those people are ignorant and haven't watched him play.'

Glutton for punishment?? Yes you are.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Race in any discussion is quite often a Rosach test in itself, if you're looking for racism you're going to find it.

I can take offense to anything on any basis if I want to.

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Still not quite a " a complete lie based on unconscionable ignorance."

Unconscionable?? Really?? lol!

It was an overzealous mistake, not a sneaky little lie I tried to slide by the board.
If that's one of the dumbest things you've ever heard, you need to get around a little bit more BB.

And read some of your own posts.

Starting with your in-depth, hard hitting predraft analysis on 'Why Sam Bradford Sucks'.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...t=sam+bradford

I may be statistically challenged, BB, but you my friend, are blind.
.
How dare you drag blind people into this argument as if they're a lesser species. If they could see would you be talking the same ****?
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Still not quite a " a complete lie based on unconscionable ignorance."

Unconscionable?? Really?? lol!

It was an overzealous mistake, not a sneaky little lie I tried to slide by the board.
If that's one of the dumbest things you've ever heard, you need to get around a little bit more BB.

And read some of your own posts.

Starting with your in-depth, hard hitting predraft analysis on 'Why Sam Bradford Sucks'.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...t=sam+bradford

I may be statistically challenged, BB, but you my friend, are blind.

Still, at least you admitted that Bradford was a solid 4th round developmental prospect.

'System QB','mentally underdeveloped','comes from a program that doesn't produce NFL QBs','accuracy' issues;

'Most people who don't know what they're talking about will say that Sam Bradford is an accurate passer. Those people are ignorant and haven't watched him play.'

Glutton for punishment?? Yes you are.
It just further proves your delusional state of mind regarding Cam Newton. You expect people to heap praise upon him. So much so that you expect people to give him credit for things he didn't even do. I think they call that biased. Didn't he win the National Championship for Florida as well? Can you say, "Leader?"


I don't think I was blind, but biased, which I even admitted to being in that very thread (see quote). And you are well aware with how much I ate my words on Sam Bradford. As I also said in that thread, I don't expect not to be flamed for making that thread even though I gave him a, mostly, positive final review and considered him... a first round QB.

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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
Anyway, lots of bad information on my part in this thread (and especially in the OP where I simply jumped the gun and had not seen enough of him to make such strong statements). Eventually, I tried to rescind this thread.

I gave a better description of his abilities here (just before the draft, which contradicts a lot of what I said... basically, it's more reasoned and, who knows, maybe less biased):

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma, Jr.
I made a thread a while ago bashing Bradford, it was called, "Sam Bradford sucks." I did not think he would wind up being the first overall pick or even get this much attention this late into the draft process, especially after his injury and subsequent surgery on his throwing shoulder. I do think it is a foregone conclusion that the Rams will make him the first player drafted. I just don't like it. I would much rather draft Suh, who I think is head and shoulders above everyone else in this draft. With that said, Bradford is the best QB in this draft without question. Bradford seems to be a very smart football player that does a great job reading defenses, finding the mismatch quickly, getting the ball out extremely fast and being extremely accurate. Bradford has NFL size and an adequate arm, but it's not as strong as I would like to see out of a Top 10 prospect. Bradford has a very quick release and showed an ability to stand in the pocket when facing pressure. He can roll out on bootlegs and he does fit west coast systems. The thing is, he has missed an entire year and does have question marks regarding his health. They are big enough to keep me from dishing out close to $80 million. I saw the hits he took. He wasn't hit by 330 pounders and driven into the ground violently. The Texas game, where he re-injured his shoulder, he simply fell over after being tackled around the legs. Point is: they weren't big hits. In the NFL, and with the Rams, he could be taking some big hits. How he holds up is a legit concern that drops him out of the Top 10 for me. He was surrounded by great talent and the best offense in college football, a great line and a great system that spread the field. He had some luxuries with clean pockets and wide open receivers. There just wont be many luxuries on the worst team in the NFL. I think Bradford has the potential to be a really good QB. I also think he could be a major disappointment if injuries plague his career.
Where I was wrong? I underestimated his arm strength and ability to not just read defenses, but go through progressions. I knew it was a strength to find the mismatch, but I didn't realize how incredibly elite that trait was. If I did realize how elite that trait was, then I would have had no problem with the Rams drafting him 1st overall, which he will prove to be worthy of as long as he stays healthy. I'm still not sure if he's going to be one of those handful of elite QBs, but I think he has more than enough potential to be one of the top 10 QBs in the NFL.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Fake smile on display again as Newton is honored by members of the Georgia House and Senate:





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Old 04-01-2011, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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OK here (might) be my final words on this topic.

Is the PFW comments racist? No the guy has made these comments about plenty of prospects.

Is the PFW comments accurate? I am willing to go with his offensive coordinator who called the comments "ridiculous" on his interview on Mike and Mike in the morning. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=628...goryid=2459789 Could he be just standing up for his guy sure but most of the time once the kid leaves they won't go to bat for a guy that they don't believe are going to be successful at the next level. To what extent does Nolan Nawrocki have access to cam or his team mates I have no idea. So unless he has sources to back up his claims I'll stick with the coach till Cam proves me wrong.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, its real likely his coordinator is going to bash him on public television if he had negative thoughts about him. How often does that happen? A coach might tell teams in private about certain issues but come on, seriously? The guy simply defended his offense to to distance it from the "system" label so that it will be easier to recruit guys like Cam, athletic quarterbacks, so they don't wind up going to say, somewhere like Ohio State.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
OK here (might) be my final words on this topic.

Is the PFW comments racist? No the guy has made these comments about plenty of prospects.

Is the PFW comments accurate? I am willing to go with his offensive coordinator who called the comments "ridiculous" on his interview on Mike and Mike in the morning. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=628...goryid=2459789 Could he be just standing up for his guy sure but most of the time once the kid leaves they won't go to bat for a guy that they don't believe are going to be successful at the next level. To what extent does Nolan Nawrocki have access to cam or his team mates I have no idea. So unless he has sources to back up his claims I'll stick with the coach till Cam proves me wrong.
That Nolan guy said that he is holding information that could really hurt Cam Newton stock but won't release it because he does want to or something like that. He also said he knew about Reggie Bush accepting improper benefits long before everyone else but choose not to release that information. So apparently Nolan Nawrocki is the James Bond of draft analyst. He said all this on the Dan Patrick show BTW.

This is what the Panthers GM had to say

Quote:
“(Nawrocki) did his job. He’s selling books.”
Quote:
“(Nawrocki) has never met Cam Newton,” Hurney said. “So who has (Nawrocki) talked to? He says he’s talking to decision makers. We have the No. 1 pick. He hasn’t talked to me.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ds-cam-newton/
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
Fake smile on display again as Newton is honored by members of the Georgia House and Senate:





Why is he smiling? he should look angry like this guy

only fake people smile.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, its real likely his coordinator is going to bash him on public television if he had negative thoughts about him. How often does that happen? A coach might tell teams in private about certain issues but come on, seriously? The guy simply defended his offense to to distance it from the "system" label so that it will be easier to recruit guys like Cam, athletic quarterbacks, so they don't wind up going to say, somewhere like Ohio State.
Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
He was so butt hurt when he said that too.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:13 AM    (permalink
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That Nolan guy said that he is holding information that could really hurt Cam Newton stock but won't release it because he does want to or something like that. He also said he knew about Reggie Bush accepting improper benefits long before everyone else but choose not to release that information. So apparently Nolan Nawrocki is the James Bond of draft analyst. He said all this on the Dan Patrick show BTW.

This is what the Panthers GM had to say





http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ds-cam-newton/

Glad you found a recording of the interview Malzahn had Friday morning with Mike and Mike.
It's not the full interview, maybe it's missing a couple minutes, but it was Malzahn who said that Cam Newton set the NCAA passing efficiency record last year and precisely where I picked up little detail from!!
Anyway, like others have said, it's unusual for a college coordinator, position or HC to publicly rip a player or discuss his shortcomings honestly.

I'm sure Les Miles knew all about the problems Jarmarcus Russell would face moving on to the NFL. And Mack Brown was intimately aware of the emotional frailty of VY, ( he 'quit' the UT football program at least once his first three years there.)

It's good to see that voices are coming out to rebut some of Nawrocki's opinions on Newton's character, the downside is Nawrocki is now 'famous' for unfairly smearing a player.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:18 AM    (permalink
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I think comparing Newton to Russel is unfair to Newton. Newton seems to have the physical attributes Russel didn't, like being in shape. The other stuff, I have no idea about.
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Old 04-02-2011, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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broth223
Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
Did Jim Plunkett or Tom Flores claim that Carroll said that because Sanchez was Latino, accusing Carroll of being racist for making such a negative comment towards the QB and his prospects in the NFL?
No he didn't. No race card was played by anyone. Just a difference of opinion, which happens with every prospect (see: Tebow, Rodgers, Jamarcus, Leinart, Bradford, Brady, Vince Young, Marino....)

Quote:
BigBanger
Race is always going to be brought up with everything and anything.
Not really... only from the black community/players.
How often have you heard b*tching from the Indian community that Brandon Chillar is the only Indian in the NFL?

How often have you heard people -like Warren Moon- complain that there are no white CBs in the league? None. All the white college CBs get branded with the "stiff hips" label in their scouting report somehow.

Or that Peyton Hillis was the first white RB to get to 1000 yards in the league since the mid 1980's?
Very rarely, if ever, is it mentioned on a telecast. But we always hear it if it's from the black angle, whether it's a player or coach..... not enough GMs, etc.

Race is only always brought up by one side, and to be honest, most everybody else is way beyond sick of it.
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