PFW "Clobbers" Cam Newton

[D-Unit]

Let's try to continue discussions with less astericks.

Anyone who says PFW's report isn't over the line is not really being accurate.

Anyone who says PFS'w report is purely racist is not really being accurate.

Anyone who thinks NFL teams have changed their scouting reports on Newton based off this PFW report is being really funny.

PFW got what they wanted... "website clicks".

[StaticGator]

Originally Posted by bitonti

people conflate Newton's behavior as an 18 year old with the "scandal" when he was 21 I don't see any correlation. He went to JC and grew up.

We all know Newton made mistakes at Florida. But that's old news. the "scandal" at Auburn is a joke. Taking money?

Jeez i hope taking money to play football doesn't interfere with his ability to play professional football... for MONEY!

The problem is all of Newton's red flags show a consistent pattern of trying to take short cuts and operate above the system. He's applying for a job to play the most physically and mentally challenging position in all of sports and his record of past behavior leads you to question whether he'll truly put in the work it takes to succeed. If he doesn't want to pay a legitimate price for a computer, if he doesn't want to write his term papers, and he doesn't want to play by the NCAA rules of recruiting, what should lead people to believe he's going to study every intricacy of Dick LeBeau's zone blitz packages?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I NEVER argued race was a factor about why certain player's have a good or bad reputation.
The mere mention of 'race' does not mean it's being used as an excuse.

Some White players have a crap rep, some Black players have a saintly rep.

That was the point I was making, njx9. For you to deliberately read a racial angle into it or claim that's what I was doing, is wrong.

i've been reading a racial angle in almost every defense of newton over the last few pages (or, since the first post mentioning warren moon's inane statements), however, i apologize for attributing it to you. this post:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...8&#post2567598

stuck in my mind as one of a series, though it was clearly different in tone than some of the outright accusations.

You seem like a pretty sharp guy most of the time, njx9, how you missed such a simple idea I was attempting to express is disappointing.:(

i understood what you were trying to express, i simply attributed a different motive to it than what you'd intended. again, i'm sorry for that.

People are inclined to think the worst about Newton, I don't think that's making excuses for him. That's simply my personal observation.

i don't think that's true. people are inclined to have the opinion of him that he's given them cause to have. i think someone else posted it, but whether or not cam had any part in it, i think it's become quite clear that his dad *was* shopping him around. i think cam made some mistakes a few years ago. and i think people are reasonably skeptical now.

take a buddy of mine: felony conviction. the fact that he *has* changed has to be proven every single day, especially to new employers, or anyone who's put into a possible trust relationship with him. it's not necessarily fair, but who actually cares about fair? it is what it is.

Newton bought a stolen laptop at UF, perhaps knowingly, but how many times is it reported that Newton STOLE a laptop at Florida??

how many times a day, on average, do you think mass media prints and repeats incorrect information? that's not an excuse, but i don't think that's people out to get cam, as much as it is incompetent journalism.

Even Nawrocki wrote up in his report that Newton stole a laptop, which is absolutely false.

and for that, people should force him to print a retraction of that point. or they should stop paying any attention to anything else he says.

Buying stolen merchandise and being guilty of breaking an entering are vastly different crimes, one of which IMO is completely indefensible.

absolutely agree.

People repeatedly make this 'mistake' because they are inclined to think the worst about Newton instead of being accurate about the facts.

i disagree. people keep making the mistake because they saw a major news station/site/whatever report it as fact, and assumed that that source wasn't run by lazy idiots. unfortunately, it seems clear that a fair number of journalists are incapable of doing their jobs, and their publications should be held responsible for ensuring that retractions are clearly visible.

for instance, if CNN starts falsely and repeatedly reporting that there's another major earthquake, people will repeat it themselves, assuming that the source has better information. that doesn't mean there's an agenda by the people repeating it, it means CNN needs to hire a new reporter.

Why do some call him a 'thug'???

anyone calling him a thug should no longer be writing/reporting. i may have missed it in nawrocki's, but where else has this come up?

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by jnew76

You are arguing an assumption with an assumption... People assume Newton is still the same 18 year old kid that got booted out of Florida, you assume Newton is an all grown up man that has completely left his past behind.

For me, I look at the mishandling of this draft process by Newton... I look at the influence of his father (who I think we can all agree at least tried to auction his son to the highest bidder) on his decision making... I see the nervous deflection of tough questions when pressed by the media... I see a man on the football field, who is often childish off the field...

On the field, Newton has #1 pick talent and potential... I have never denied that.

However, I would never pay him top 10 money to be the face of my franchise. In fact, I would not draft him in the first round. I see a recipe for disaster in drafting Newton when combining the money, media scrutiny, his maturity, his support system/entourage, and the pressure of being the face of the franchise. Newton has always been able to handle the pressure and perform between the lines. The time and commitment needed to succeed in the NFL (especially at the QB position) on and off the field is something I am not confident Newton can handle.

I just cant see that. On the field he is in a read option system which is not anything near what he'll see as far as the NFL goes. He also has a tiny resume and tends to be innacurate within the strike zone. I can see teams reaching for a QB as the top pick but i wouldnt even say he is going to be a better pro than Gabbert or Locker for that matter. I dont get the implication Cam is the best player out there beside the off the field stuff.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Babylon

I just cant see that. On the field he is in a read option system which is not anything near what he'll see as far as the NFL goes. He also has a tiny resume and tends to be innacurate within the strike zone. I can see teams reaching for a QB as the top pick but i wouldnt even say he is going to be a better pro than Gabbert or Locker for that matter. I dont get the implication Cam is the best player out there beside the off the field stuff.

hah. I agree with you... even if I support Newton ahead of the rest of this year's QB crop. He doesn't have #1 pick talent and potential in any other draft. ...hell, even in this draft, I'd take Peterson or a DL ahead of him if I'm Carolina.

His physical upside is tremendous, but I question his mental capacity to handle the riggors of being a long term successful NFL QB. If he can get a solid grip on that, then really... the sky is the limit... and he'll make many a doubter look foolish.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

hah. I agree with you... even if I support Newton ahead of the rest of this year's QB crop. He doesn't have #1 pick talent and potential in any other draft. ...hell, even in this draft, I'd take Peterson or a DL ahead of him if I'm Carolina.

His physical upside is tremendous, but I question his mental capacity to handle the riggors of being a long term successful NFL QB. If he can get a solid grip on that, then really... the sky is the limit... and he'll make many a doubter look foolish.

Carolina needs to trade down and get that 2nd back and maybe a 4th. You think the Cowboys would take Peterson?

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Carolina needs to trade down and get that 2nd back and maybe a 4th. You think the Cowboys would take Peterson?

I think they would love to get Peterson, but that there is a cap on the cost it would take to move up. I hear rumors that a deal could be in place with Cleveland at #6 if Peterson is still available. I doubt he would be, but that's one of many rumors out there.

Can anyone see Newton going on a free fall into Round 2?

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I think they would love to get Peterson, but that there is a cap on the cost it would take to move up. I hear rumors that a deal could be in place with Cleveland at #6 if Peterson is still available. I doubt he would be, but that's one of many rumors out there.

Can anyone see Newton going on a free fall into Round 2?

You must want to see Warren Moon implode. I think his value is probably around the 12th pick to the Vikings but i'm sure someone will grab him early.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

I think what some people haven't put together is that Nawrocki works for Pro Football Weekly. They have been in the NFL and scouting news business for a long time and aren't just some new to the scene internet site. They have been gathering sources inside the NFL for decades and just like other news outlets they protect their sources. It is key to their business.

When a guy like Hurney says that Nawrocki didn't talk to him it doesn't mean much when their are hundreds of other sources from inside the league to glean information from. I am curious why Hurney felt a need to deny he had any part of being a source for this report. He didn't deny that it could have come from inside his office though.

That Nolan guy said he was talking to decision makers and Hurney is the decision maker for the panthers, unless Nolan is talking to the panthers own their is no other decision maker.

[bitonti]

if being a good person was a requirement for NFL QB, Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't have 2 Super Bowl rings. Brett Favre wouldn't have one. Mike Vick wouldn't be starting.

Cam Newton may not be the guy that audiences are comfortable with as a role model but the dude has proven he will win games.

the Panthers with Newton could sniff .500 in the near future. Without him they are just another franchise with no stars and no chance. Love him or hate him, Newton has star potential and the league takes care of it's stars.

[njx9]

no one's suggesting that it's a requirement. everyone's suggesting that lack of character is a concern. if roethlisberger gets wasted, and locks some girl in the bathroom again, the steelers won't really care about all his 'star power', because he won't be allowed on the field.

look at pac man jones. complete immaturity doomed his career. no one cares about the talent he had coming out, because he was out of the league too quickly for it to help anyone.

or todd marinovich, if you want a qb example.

[RealityCheck]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Can anyone see Newton going on a free fall into Round 2?

The world would be a better place if that happened, however, it won't.

It'll be #1, #10 or #12 for Cam.

[D-Unit]

Some may find this silly, but honestly speaking... one thing that I consider VERY important at the QB position is the Alpha-male characteristic in the player. What do I mean by this?

- Is he a natural born leader or follower?
- Is he a guy who others follow willingly?
- Does he have the moxie to make others feel confident in time of panic?
- Whether he does good or bad, do people feel good being associated with him?

I like to think that in a pack of dogs, that he's the lead dog? That dog is my Alpha-male. IMO, if you're gonna be a successful QB in this league, you need to have that Alpha-male characteristic. These guys ooze confidence. They have an extra built-in confidence that makes them think they will succeed despite the odds. These kind of guys are often successful in all walks of life.

They are the bosses. They are the ladies man. They are good looking. They succeed.

I bring this up because I think Newton has that Alpha-male characteristic. I think that despite the flaws you may find in his past or present that he will emerge successfully. Big Ben and Kobe Bryant are still loved despite raping a girl. Vick is still loved despite dog fighting. Tom Brady can do no wrong even if tried. Having 2 sons with 2 different hot women is more like a trophy. Matt Sanchez can date a 17 year old if he wants. His boys will follow him.

Now this characteristic alone isn't nearly enough, but Newton has the talent and will to combine. I'm not saying this is a must or guarantee, but in my book, it's certainly an extra something to look for.

[Rabscuttle]

Originally Posted by Complex

That Nolan guy said he was talking to decision makers and Hurney is the decision maker for the panthers, unless Nolan is talking to the panthers own their is no other decision maker.

Several dozen other decision makers seem to be unaccounted for in this equation. Dollars to doughnuts says a lot of this same info is on Carolina's scouting report of Newton as well. It is up to them whether they choose to ignore it or not. (along with all his issues as a quarterback as well)

[SenorGato]

Cam Newton looks like D'Brickashaw Ferguson:

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

Cam Newton looks like D'Brickashaw Ferguson:

And Cam Newton reminds me of a larger, bulked up Akili Smith.

[PossibleCabbage]

Originally Posted by Complex

That Nolan guy said he was talking to decision makers and Hurney is the decision maker for the panthers, unless Nolan is talking to the panthers own their is no other decision maker.

You say "decision maker" like it's one guy in every organization, it's not. There are many levels of "decision making" in a scouting department. The director of college scouting, for example, is a decision maker, as are the different regional assistant directors of college scouting who oversee the regional scouts; and regional scouts even, are in some sense, decision makers since their evaluations are responsible for much of the raw data that is consumed by busier people up the totem pole. Each of the above can be overruled by the general manager, but the general manager can be overruled by the owner as well. If we're only going to look at the person who has the absolute final decision on everything, who cares what Marty Hurney thinks... let's ask Jerry Richardson.

And ultimately, it may be Richardson that ultimately decides "no" on Cam Newton, if what Scott says is true about Richardson being hardline against problematic character guys.

[the natural]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

And Cam Newton reminds me of a larger, bulked up Akili Smith.

Roided up Akili Smith. With HGH thrown in. He didn't get that jawbone and the forehead ridge from his Dad. At least not directly. Frustrated jock Cecil probably started Cam's "treatments" when he was about 10.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

And Cam Newton reminds me of a larger, bulked up Akili Smith.

Seems like there a thousand ways for people to say they think someone is going to be a bust.

The comparison seems like a superficial one; brief college career, put up nice stats.

But their playing styles are different, their offensive systems were different.

Why does Cam's floor have to be Akili?? Why not Kordell Stewart??

BTW, if there are any Bengals fans here, could they explain exactly why it was that Akili failed so spectacularly???

I hate generic comparisons with some background on both prospects.
Why did Akili only start 17 games for the Bengals before he was let go??

The reason I think Cam will be successful, the main reason, is that people IMO are underestimating his competitiveness and work ethic, in regards to football.

I think Cam's football work ethic is almost as high as athletic ability. You hear the stories about Newton's one year at Auburn and how he was working on his game alone at Auburn's team facilities while his teammates were sleeping off hangovers, until eventually his teammates started to join in with him.

The bottom line is you can't be that successful in one year on talent alone; it requires putting in extra hours off the field to bridge the gap in playing experience in Malzahn's offense.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Some may find this silly, but honestly speaking... one thing that I consider VERY important at the QB position is the Alpha-male characteristic in the player. What do I mean by this?

- Is he a natural born leader or follower?
- Is he a guy who others follow willingly?
- Does he have the moxie to make others feel confident in time of panic?
- Whether he does good or bad, do people feel good being associated with him?

I like to think that in a pack of dogs, that he's the lead dog? That dog is my Alpha-male. IMO, if you're gonna be a successful QB in this league, you need to have that Alpha-male characteristic. These guys ooze confidence. They have an extra built-in confidence that makes them think they will succeed despite the odds. These kind of guys are often successful in all walks of life.

They are the bosses. They are the ladies man. They are good looking. They succeed.

I bring this up because I think Newton has that Alpha-male characteristic. I think that despite the flaws you may find in his past or present that he will emerge successfully. Big Ben and Kobe Bryant are still loved despite raping a girl. Vick is still loved despite dog fighting. Tom Brady can do no wrong even if tried. Having 2 sons with 2 different hot women is more like a trophy. Matt Sanchez can date a 17 year old if he wants. His boys will follow him.

Now this characteristic alone isn't nearly enough, but Newton has the talent and will to combine. I'm not saying this is a must or guarantee, but in my book, it's certainly an extra something to look for.

Hmmmm I still can't tell if he's franchise or not..



Ha this was the first thing I thought of. But really though, it's an interesting take D.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Hmmmm I still can't tell if he's franchise or not..



Ha this was the first thing I thought of. But really though, it's an interesting take D.

McCoy has it. I think he has a reallly bright future. In comparison... the ugly Jimmy Clausen doesn't have it. Good looks = confidence/high self-esteem throughout life = Alpha-Male = Good QB trait. Combine that with actual talent = winner. :)

[BigBanger]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Newton bought a stolen laptop at UF, perhaps knowingly, but how many times is it reported that Newton STOLE a laptop at Florida??

Even Nawrocki wrote up in his report that Newton stole a laptop, which is absolutely false.

Buying stolen merchandise and being guilty of breaking an entering are vastly different crimes, one of which IMO is completely indefensible.

People repeatedly make this 'mistake' because they are inclined to think the worst about Newton instead of being accurate about the facts.

This is not a mistake because he was CHARGED, and when I say that I mean by the POLICE, and ARRESTED for BURGLARY (yeah, that's a felony) and GRAND LARCENY (that's also a felony). The police ACCUSED him of being in someone's dorm room when he was not given permission to be there and STEALING a laptop that was not his, which, kinda fits the definition of BURGLARY and LARCENY.

Newton attempted to COVER THIS ALL UP by TOSSING THE LAPTOP OUT OF HIS WINDOW. Then texting a friend, telling him to put it behind a dumpster. The Po-Po found the LAPTOP (with "CAM NEWTON" written on it) behind said dumpster. Coincidence? Anyway, that's called OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. That's ANOTHER CHARGE.

*** Witnesses said that when Cam Newton threw the laptop out of his window, it was one of the most accurate throws he made during his entire college career. Further proving his greatness in stressful / high pressure situations. *** Sarcasm between asterisks. Can not help myself. The dude is a joke.

Newton, like the fake liar that he is, said that he bought the stolen laptop from Joe Blow, who sold it to him out of the trunk of his car. (He smiled during the entire interview in attempt to make the Cops like him). Who's Joe Blow? Cam never said. Just a model citizen that Cam barely knows and occasionally does some minor transactions with...

That makes all these reports that he stole the laptop false? Because Newton said he bought it? Hahahahahahahahahaha. That's really all I have to say. "Newton said he didn't steal it, so everyone else is lying." Hell of a defense.

Did he steal it or didn't he? Doesn't really matter. He was in possession of it and tried to cover it up, which basically means that he was more than well aware that it was stolen, whether he was the thief or not... doesn't really matter. He stole it. End of discussion. You act like a moron, you get treated like a moron. And Cam has an extensive history of moronic behavior.

So in summary, people are not incorrect or making a "mistake" by saying that he stole the laptop, because well, that's what he was CHARGED with after a police investigation. And Cam made the whole situation even worse by throwing it out of his window in attempt to avoid arrest.

There is no need to respond to this post FUNBUNCHER. There is nothing else that needs to be said about Cam "Thief, liar, fake, criminal, cheater, phony" Newton. He's a lazy scumbag. End of story.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by BigBanger

This is not a mistake because he was CHARGED, and when I say that I mean by the POLICE, and ARRESTED for BURGLARY (yeah, that's a felony) and GRAND LARCENY (that's also a felony). The police ACCUSED him of being in someone's dorm room when he was not given permission to be there and STEALING a laptop that was not his, which, kinda fits the definition of BURGLARY and LARCENY.

Newton attempted to COVER THIS ALL UP by TOSSING THE LAPTOP OUT OF HIS WINDOW. Then texting a friend, telling him to put it behind a dumpster. The Po-Po found the LAPTOP (with "CAM NEWTON" written on it) behind said dumpster. Coincidence? Anyway, that's called OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. That's ANOTHER CHARGE.

*** Witnesses said that when Cam Newton threw the laptop out of his window, it was one of the most accurate throws he made during his entire college career. Further proving his greatness in stressful / high pressure situations. *** Sarcasm between asterisks. Can not help myself. The dude is a joke.

Newton, like the fake liar that he is, said that he bought the stolen laptop from Joe Blow, who sold it to him out of the trunk of his car. (He smiled during the entire interview in attempt to make the Cops like him). Who's Joe Blow? Cam never said. Just a model citizen that Cam barely knows and occasionally does some minor transactions with...

That makes all these reports that he stole the laptop false? Because Newton said he bought it? Hahahahahahahahahaha. That's really all I have to say. "Newton said he didn't steal it, so everyone else is lying." Hell of a defense.

Did he steal it or didn't he? Doesn't really matter. He was in possession of it and tried to cover it up, which basically means that he was more than well aware that it was stolen, whether he was the thief or not... doesn't really matter. He stole it. End of discussion. You act like a moron, you get treated like a moron. And Cam has an extensive history of moronic behavior.

So in summary, people are not incorrect or making a "mistake" by saying that he stole the laptop, because well, that's what he was CHARGED with after a police investigation. And Cam made the whole situation even worse by throwing it out of his window in attempt to avoid arrest.

There is no need to respond to this post FUNBUNCHER. There is nothing else that needs to be said about Cam "Thief, liar, fake, criminal, cheater, phony" Newton. He's a lazy scumbag. End of story.

Since when does committing a crime predict the NFL success of a player?

[BigBanger]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Since when does committing a crime predict the NFL success of a player?

Minga. Where did that come from? Cam also committed MULTIPLE CRIMES, but that's neither here nor there.

I simply responded to FUNBUNCHER, who accused Nawrocki of being "mistaken" and reporting false information when Nawrocki stated nothing more than facts. Like, real actual facts. You couldn't be more factual than Nawrocki was and people will blindly call him "mistaken." FUNBUNCHER was so wrong and mistaken himself that I simply felt compelled to dispel his lies, which he tends to do whenever talking about Newton. He just makes **** up. I don't know why he's still talking in this thread.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I

The reason I think Cam will be successful, the main reason, is that people IMO are underestimating his competitiveness and work ethic, in regards to football.

I think Cam's football work ethic is almost as high as athletic ability. You hear the stories about Newton's one year at Auburn and how he was working on his game alone at Auburn's team facilities while his teammates were sleeping off hangovers, until eventually his teammates started to join in with him.

The bottom line is you can't be that successful in one year on talent alone; it requires putting in extra hours off the field to bridge the gap in playing experience in Malzahn's offense.

If that is the case with Newton then all well and good, however it is nothing special that he was at the facility by himself for one year. If you want to be a good QB in the NFL then you'd better be the hardest working player on your team, on the practice field, in the weight room and in the film room. That's to be good not great. The problem is there is not enough of a history of Newton showing these qualities to be 100% comfortable in taking him highly.

It's like NJX's scenario about the convicted felon-who cares if he actually has become a hard worker now. There is a stigma attached to Cam Newton which he needs to prove wrong every day. One year of leading his team is not a big enough sample size to prove this. Then added in with his issues in translating to the pro game I find it hard to understand how any team can bank on him to be their franchise QB high in the draft.

Im on the fence about Newton as a pro prospect. He has ridiculous ability and could become a great player. He also has noted off the field issue and comes from a spread offense.

A lot of people have brought up Mike Vick, Ben Roehtlisberger etc in terms of his off the field issues. And Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy etc from his spread offense issues. However, if you were the GM of the team drafting first overall and you had to put your job and reputation on the line, would you draft Newton 1st overall based on what you know? Clearly a lot of people would but how could you be comfortable taking him? Do you get the Cam Newton who seems to have been a great leader and won a National Championship or do you get the Icon/Entertainer with multiple off the field concerns?