Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2015 NFL Draft Forum

2015 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2015 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2011, 09:23 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Just like Vince Young, Newton may perform relatively well out of the gates.

Then NFL defenses will adjust.
another point I agree with... but just for the record, Vince Young won Offensive Rookie of the Year. and Newton is widely regarded as a more accomplished thrower than VY.

expectations are so wack these days, that VY was considered a bad pick. And I was very anti-VY at the time.

Im sorry but if you ask any NFL GM, you could take a player, he will be rookie of the year, would any of them say no?

So many of these picks turn out worthless... for a guy to win games and win ROY, that's a good pick, pretty much no matter what else he does.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:25 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post

so you guarantee a .500 season if the panthers take cam newton this year?
no. I personally guarantee they win more games with Newton than with Peterson or AJ Green. But it's all hypotheticals... no way to prove.

also I disagree with the source that says he would go #1 if he were white. He's going #1. People just have to reconcile their idea of Newton with the truth of what's gonna happen. Many mocks have Dareus at number 1, he's not even in their final 3.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:25 AM    (permalink
anansi
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Reputation: 0
anansi hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Just like Vince Young, Newton may perform relatively well out of the gates.

Then NFL defenses will adjust.

Technically speaking Vince Young was having the best season of his career this year even though defense's "caught up" to him as you seem to be suggesting. Vince Young wasn't that bad of a qb he is just an idoit.
anansi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:29 AM    (permalink
anansi
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Reputation: 0
anansi hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i believe that some unnamed sources are idiots and don't have the faintest clue what they're talking about. *shrug* this guy is clearly one of them. would ryan mallett go first overall if he was white? what about patrick peterson?



so you guarantee a .500 season if the panthers take cam newton this year?

I think you can make unnamed sources say whatever you want them to say that's why I refuse to put any stock into what they say.
anansi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:30 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,857
Reputation: 1705793
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I dont buy the "set back" theory.

With the new CBA the rookie salaries will be different. Cam Newton isn't get 50 mil to go 1 overall like Bradford did. The bonus baby is done.

how much set back can they get from 2-14? 1-15? winless?
It's not just the money he would be getting. It's easier to move on from Jimmy Clausen who was a mid second round pick and wasn't drafted by the current regime after one year. If Newton bombs this year do you honestly believe the Panthers would select someone like Andrew Luck next year or even a QB the year after that? They will give him ample time to prove himself. Just as the Raiders did with Russell and the Texans did with David Carr etc. The shortest time he will be on the Panthers roster for will be about 3 years and if he bombs then they are back to where they started-being a bad team looking for a franchise QB
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:30 AM    (permalink
Scott Wright
Owner
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minnesota (U.S.A.)
Posts: 11,809
Reputation: 1380443
Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Scott Wright is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anansi View Post
Technically speaking Vince Young was having the best season of his career this year even though defense's "caught up" to him as you seem to be suggesting. Vince Young wasn't that bad of a qb he is just an idoit.
Actually, I agree! However, poor intangibles have prevented Vince Young from ever becoming the quarterback he's capable of being. I see the exact same problems with Cam Newton.
__________________
Scott Wright, President
Draft Countdown.com
www.draftcountdown.com

Twitter: twitter.com/DraftCountdown

Draft Countdown Podcast, Every Tuesday at 8 PM EST
www.blogtalkradio.com/draftcountdown and on iTunes

Scott Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:37 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
It's not just the money he would be getting. It's easier to move on from Jimmy Clausen who was a mid second round pick and wasn't drafted by the current regime after one year. If Newton bombs this year do you honestly believe the Panthers would select someone like Andrew Luck next year or even a QB the year after that?
potentially missing out on Andrew Luck is not reason enough to pass on Newton. Andrew Luck is not Lebron James, there are no really safe picks in the NFL draft. rebuilding isn't a real thing in the NFL.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:40 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,857
Reputation: 1705793
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
potentially missing out on Andrew Luck is not reason enough to pass on Newton. Andrew Luck is not Lebron James, there are no really safe picks in the NFL draft. rebuilding isn't a real thing in the NFL.
I know that's not the point I was making. I was saying if Newton doesn't work out this year it will be put down to a learning curve. If he doesn't work out in year two he still has potential and will still be the starting QB. The Panthers will give him at least three years to prove himself as their franchise QB. If he fails to meet those expectations then he will have set the franchise back at least 3 years.

If they are not confident he will be the franchise QB IS enough reason to pass on him though.
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:43 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
if Newton doesn't work out this year it will be put down to a learning curve. If he doesn't work out in year two he still has potential and will still be the starting QB. The Panthers will give him at least three years to prove himself as their franchise QB. If he fails to meet those expectations then he will have set the franchise back at least 3 years.
that assumes they would be competitive without him.

I don't really see how that's possible.

there's a poker saying "you gotta put em down to pick em up" in other words nothing ventured nothing gained. Yes it's safer not to take Newton. But they won't turn that franchise around either.

the safest play is to take no players and fold the franchise. Jerry Richardson can put all his money in T-Bills. that's the safe play.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:50 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,857
Reputation: 1705793
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
that assumes they would be competitive without him.

I don't really see how that's possible.

there's a poker saying "you gotta put em down to pick em up" in other words nothing ventured nothing gained. Yes it's safer not to take Newton. But they won't turn that franchise around either.

the safest play is to take no players and fold the franchise. Jerry Richardson can put all his money in T-Bills. that's the safe play.
It could be a case of damned if they do, damned if they don't. But the decision makers in the Panthers organisation aren't playing poker.

What they have is a second year QB who had little or no weapons to throw to. If only there was an elite WR in this draft class...

They also have a huge hole at DT. Im sure Dareus would help them out a little.

As I said, if they think he's going to be able to turn the franchise around then they have to take Newton. But they shouldn't take him just because he is a QB.
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:51 AM    (permalink
GoRavens
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,329
Reputation: 53270
GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If Cam Newton has all these flaws; character, intelligence, leadership, etc. why is he even considered to be the #1 pick? Am I the only person who thinks Jimmy Clausen (with a better offensive line and receiving core) can be a winning NFL QB? One bad rookie season shouldn't justify your entire NFL career.
__________________
GO RAVENS
GoRavens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 10:07 AM    (permalink
SolidGold
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,130
Reputation: 597016
SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

So if Newton goes number 1 will Josh McDaniels look like a genius for drafting essentially the same player 20+ spots later in the first round in 2010?

I just don't get the Newton hype/fanfare. I have said it many times he is not some "once in a generation" player that will "revolutionize" the position. Vick was the closest thing but it was not until this past year when he actually put the work in and developed as a passer has he begun to reach his potential.

A lot of people get caught up in hype and say this guy is big and can run so it automatically equates to a sea change at the position in the NFL. The fact of the matter is that the NFL will always come down to what a QB does in the pocket, how he can read defenses, arm strength and accuracy.

This draft is littered with the same type of QB that Newton is but they did not put up the gaudy rushing stats because they did not play in the one read and run offense Newton played in.

Newton's personality is getting a lot of the criticism but flaws about his actual game seem to be glazed over. He has one year of starting experience at the Division 1 level, played in a simple offense, relied on his legs when his first read was not open rather than go through progressions, could his accuracy be inflated from the system he played in?

He makes excuses for himself like he did at the combine when he performed poorly. Auburn appeared to protect Newton from the media (and himself). It will be interesting to see how he actually faces losing and adversity at the next level. Will he be able to handle himself in a professional manner when he is the face of a franchise and constantly under media scrutiny?

I think he is a good prospect but it irks me when people talk of him like he is the second coming.
SolidGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 10:10 AM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,510
Reputation: 2012796
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I do think we've been too hard on Clausen (myself included). The Panthers need to make a statement, but I'm sure they'll pussyfoot this thing. Either put your foot down and emphatically declare that Clausen is your guy, or get rid of him immediately and don't look back.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 10:13 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,655
Reputation: 1206081
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
If Cam Newton has all these flaws; character, intelligence, leadership, etc. why is he even considered to be the #1 pick? Am I the only person who thinks Jimmy Clausen (with a better offensive line and receiving core) can be a winning NFL QB? One bad rookie season shouldn't justify your entire NFL career.
If the Panthers trade down a couple slots and take AJ Green, I bet overnight Jimmy Clausen would look like a player.

A ball control offense and a big WR capable of bailing him out would negate the need to draft a QB this year IMO.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 11:02 AM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

the success rate on 2nd round QB in general is like 1 in 10.

Jimmy Clausen proved himself to be terrible. He's not getting better.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 11:13 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,655
Reputation: 1206081
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
the success rate on 2nd round QB in general is like 1 in 10.

Jimmy Clausen proved himself to be terrible. He's not getting better.
The success rate of drafted QBs is low period, generally speaking.
IMO it's better to ask a young QB to do less before he does more. Clausen still hadn't learned to process the speed of the NFL last season so it's hard for me to say he can't get the job done.

I need a larger sample set from him than last season.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 12:10 PM    (permalink
metafour
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,195
Reputation: 73557
metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.metafour is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
If Cam Newton has all these flaws; character, intelligence, leadership, etc. why is he even considered to be the #1 pick?
Because all of those "flaws" are overblown and/or completely non-existant in reality. Did that really need to be explained?
metafour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,320
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
which is, of course, incorrect. the real answer being that *some teams/oberservers* see those flaws as overblown and/or irrelevant, compared to the talent potential.

a secondary answer could be that some people refuse to accept the possibility of a non-qb as the #1 pick, and have decided that newton is the best of that bunch, whatever that might mean.

in short, just because joe sees a bunch of blemishes, doesn't mean that john will.
I agree, some GM's will believe strongly that their HC and QB's coach can turn Newton into a real star and further believe that what others see as a flaw they can turn into an asset. Are they right, only time will tell.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:10 PM    (permalink
Wrathman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 330
Reputation: 56255
Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wrathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
which is, of course, incorrect. the real answer being that *some teams/oberservers* see those flaws as overblown and/or irrelevant, compared to the talent potential.

a secondary answer could be that some people refuse to accept the possibility of a non-qb as the #1 pick, and have decided that newton is the best of that bunch, whatever that might mean.

in short, just because joe sees a bunch of blemishes, doesn't mean that john will.
Good post. We are talking about subjective subject matter, so opinions will vary and getting caught up in "right" versus "wrong" is totally against the review process. Each of us on this board represents a panel of one...we are judge and jury in our own minds. NFL teams don't work that way and that's because a wider array of opinions should bring a team closer to the truth about any given player. It doesn't mean they're always correct, obviously, but it is a better methodology.
Wrathman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:16 PM    (permalink
I_C_DeadPeople
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 386
Reputation: 15119
I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.I_C_DeadPeople is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post

BTW, if there are any Bengals fans here, could they explain exactly why it was that Akili failed so spectacularly???

I hate generic comparisons with some background on both prospects.
Why did Akili only start 17 games for the Bengals before he was let go??

Ugg..sure, stir up old nightmares. First off, he was a one year wonder with minimal defense reading skills. He held out so missed substantial learning time early on. He never grasped the playbook and it was learned later he never really studied much. He was also thrown to the wolves on a very bad team. He was more athlete than QB.

In hindsight, it is probably safe to say that even if he was a better student of the game and had a chance early on to sit and then play on a stronger team he still would have been at best a backup.

Mike Brown simply fell for the athletic one year wonder and when you combine all of the above with the fact the New Orleans offered their whole draft board for the pick (they wanted Rickey Williams) and Brown refused - you get the classic flameout QB pick.

I am not even a good armchair scout but I think it is fair to say Newton has a far bigger upside than Smith. Every successful QB in college seems to get the label 'system' QB and with Smith it was the Tedford system.

When we drafted Akili, most Bengals fans screamed in agony, he had at best a 25% chance of success even in a good situation - and the Bengals at that time was not that at all. Newton, to me, has a 50/50 shot which is about right for a first round QB - no more, no less.

I don't know Newton and we all have heard the red flags. He needs to land on a strong team that will let him develop but keep him in line. I am not sure either Buffalo or Cincinnati offer that? Of course the weaker teams (not just records but weaker personality teams) are at the top of the draft for a reason.
I_C_DeadPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,320
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrathman View Post
Good post. We are talking about subjective subject matter, so opinions will vary and getting caught up in "right" versus "wrong" is totally against the review process. Each of us on this board represents a panel of one...we are judge and jury in our own minds. NFL teams don't work that way and that's because a wider array of opinions should bring a team closer to the truth about any given player. It doesn't mean they're always correct, obviously, but it is a better methodology.
Totally agree with this, great insight into the draft. Personally, I use the Mayock's, Casserly's and a few others as if they are my scouts but I reserve the right to make the final decision just like any GM operates.
I want to hear all sides and then make up my mind after reviewing as much film as I can.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:49 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,886
Reputation: 1472737
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
First off, he was a one year wonder with minimal defense reading skills.

He held out so missed substantial learning time early on.

He never grasped the playbook and it was learned later he never really studied much.

He was also thrown to the wolves on a very bad team.

He was more athlete than QB.
Wow..... One Year wonder... minimal defense reading skills..... thrown to the wolves on a bad team..... more of an athlete than QB......

Who are we talking about here?
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 02:21 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Wow..... One Year wonder... minimal defense reading skills..... thrown to the wolves on a bad team..... more of an athlete than QB......

Who are we talking about here?
Well "one year wonder" and "minimal defense reading skills" aren't really in question here. And isn't that enough to ding a guy? This is a player who threw only 392 times in his entire college career. Just compared to recent first round QBs, that's a terrifyingly low number. Bradford had 893 attempts, Tebow had 995, Stafford had 987, Sanchez (who everybody including his head coach worried about his NFL readiness) had 487, Josh Freeman had 1,152, etc. I'm reasonably confident that there's not a first round QB since Akili Smith (323) with fewer passing attempts than Cam Newton, and "compares positively to Akili Smith" is a relatively low hurdle to clear in NFL draft analysis.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,320
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
Ugg..sure, stir up old nightmares. First off, he was a one year wonder with minimal defense reading skills. He held out so missed substantial learning time early on. He never grasped the playbook and it was learned later he never really studied much. He was also thrown to the wolves on a very bad team. He was more athlete than QB.

In hindsight, it is probably safe to say that even if he was a better student of the game and had a chance early on to sit and then play on a stronger team he still would have been at best a backup.

Mike Brown simply fell for the athletic one year wonder and when you combine all of the above with the fact the New Orleans offered their whole draft board for the pick (they wanted Rickey Williams) and Brown refused - you get the classic flameout QB pick.

I am not even a good armchair scout but I think it is fair to say Newton has a far bigger upside than Smith. Every successful QB in college seems to get the label 'system' QB and with Smith it was the Tedford system.

When we drafted Akili, most Bengals fans screamed in agony, he had at best a 25% chance of success even in a good situation - and the Bengals at that time was not that at all. Newton, to me, has a 50/50 shot which is about right for a first round QB - no more, no less.

I don't know Newton and we all have heard the red flags. He needs to land on a strong team that will let him develop but keep him in line. I am not sure either Buffalo or Cincinnati offer that? Of course the weaker teams (not just records but weaker personality teams) are at the top of the draft for a reason.
Cincinnati fans have to realize that they are a small market city and in order for a small market team to be successful, the owner and management team must be excellent.
Cincy has a small scouting department and relies on Brown to call the shots. This is a recipe for occasional disasters in the draft so Akili Smith should come as no surprise. When a team penny pinches on its scouting department, you are going to get flops and you would be amazed at how many flops occur to teams that have a weak owner/GM/scouts. It is a far higher % than solid management teams have occur.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
GoRavens
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,329
Reputation: 53270
GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.GoRavens is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
Jimmy Clausen proved himself to be terrible. He's not getting better.
You're so wrong.
He's not getting better? What are you, his trainer pr his coach?
Do you see him practice day in and day out?
If you actually did watch any Panthers games last season you'd realize Jimmy wasn't the problem. Sure he made his rookie mistakes, but he was consistently taking a beating and he's receivers straight up sucked. Not to mention, all THREE of his RBs were hurt too.
Why rush your franchise into believing in Cam Newton?
Just imagine if they did draft Newton #1 and he throws 10 TDs and 20 INTs, then we'll have a whole message board full of people saying that Newton is no longer the answer.. Get real cupcake.
It makes the most sense to give Jimmy 1 more season to prove what he's worth. The kid has undeniable talent.
Draft AJ Green and some solid lineman. And if that fails, then why not draft Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, or Brandon Weeden?
__________________
GO RAVENS
GoRavens is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.