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Old 03-29-2011, 10:54 AM    (permalink
Scott Wright
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Let's keep the discussion to Cam Newton, not our resumes and qualifications.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Hey Matt,

Here is the $64,000 Question:

"Would you risk your job, reputation and future of your franchise on Cam Newton?"

I certainly wouldn't.
Allow me retort with a question of my own would you risk your job on a player with a tumor in his brain? (they never removed it). And he was suspended for a year for allegations similar to what Newton faces. But they had proof on Quinn. Yet you have Quinn at 6 and Newton at 25+.

To answer your question, yes I would take that risk. Nothing ventured nothing gained, you can't go through life never taking draft risk... every player is a risk. there is no such thing as sure thing.

the Rams tried to play it safe when they took Jason Smith at 2 instead of a QB, they learned their lesson. there are no safe picks.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Gil Brandt, Steve Sabol, Bill Belichick, Bill Walsh etc. How many of them played in the NFL??? Just because you played professional football does not make you more informed about the game. Sure you can draw on your own personal experience but that doesn't make you a better journalist. Some current and former NFL players are dumber than a bunch of rocks. But by your logic they should all be given jobs in the print media because they KNOW the game
If I watch enough of Law and Order, would you like me to be your attorney?
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Matt Millen!!!
Matt Millen picked good players....he just picked the wrong QB!
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Allow me retort with a question of my own would you risk your job on a player with a tumor in his brain? (they never removed it). And he was suspended for a year for allegations similar to what Newton faces. But they had proof on Quinn. Yet you have Quinn at 6 and Newton at 25+.

To answer your question, yes I would take that risk. Nothing ventured nothing gained, you can't go through life never taking draft risk... every player is a risk. there is no such thing as sure thing.

the Rams tried to play it safe when they took Jason Smith at 2 instead of a QB, they learned their lesson. there are no safe picks.
Well, in Quinn's case it was one isolated incident whereas with Newton it's a consistent pattern that shows he doesn't think the rules apply to them. I think that is apples and oranges.

As for Quinn's medical issues, I'd have to listen to the doctors. At this point I haven't heard anything to lead me to believe that Quinn will have medical issues going forward so I'd absolutely be willing to take him in the Top 10 overall.

If Newton was a cornerback or running back I probably wouldn't hold the intangibles stuff against him nearly as much. However, when you're talking about a quarterback who is going to be the leader of the team and face of the franchise, I hold them to a higher standard.

I'm looking forward to being (W)right on this one in five years, Bitonti! :o)
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Allow me retort with a question of my own would you risk your job on a player with a tumor in his brain? (they never removed it). And he was suspended for a year for allegations similar to what Newton faces. But they had proof on Quinn. Yet you have Quinn at 6 and Newton at 25+.

To answer your question, yes I would take that risk. Nothing ventured nothing gained, you can't go through life never taking draft risk... every player is a risk. there is no such thing as sure thing.

the Rams tried to play it safe when they took Jason Smith at 2 instead of a QB, they learned their lesson. there are no safe picks.
I like Mike Mayock's take on drafting a QB highly. If you think he will be your franchise QB then you have to take him. In 2009 the Rams had the choice of Mark Sanchez at QB or any other player. Clearly they weren't sold on Sanchez's one year of film and went in another direction. Carolina, Denver, Buffalo etc all are faced with the same decision. If they're not sold on Newton's one year of production, his mechanical issues and his off the field concerns then it's not about playing it safe it's about making the right decision for their franchise. Plus, I know hindsight is 20/20 but this draft seems to have more top end talent where taking a Marcell Dareus or Patrick Peterson or AJ Green etc isn't the same as taking Jason Smith. IMO the closest thing to an elite prospect in the 2009 draft after Stafford was Crabtree and there are two better WRs in this years draft, once again my opinion.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Matt Millen picked good players....he just picked the wrong QB!
So you're saying that he did a pretty good job as GM but only messed up one pick?
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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so are you planning on actually sharing your thoughts about newton? or just bashing anyone you feel is under qualified? because one of those might actually have value. one demonstrably does not.
Newton is Roethelisberger.. That's about as simple as one can put it. Both strengths/weaknesses are the same
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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So you're saying that he did a pretty good job as GM but only messed up one pick?
Snowball Effect... The miss on the QB position snowballed to derail the entire squad. I also felt like they got rid of Mariucci too quick!
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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If I watch enough of Law and Order, would you like me to be your attorney?
I fail to see the relevancy. If Nawrocki was saying about his mechanical issues or his ability to read defenses etc then maybe there would be a slight bit of logic in your point. But he is describing the man's mental makeup. You dont have to have played in the NFL or any sort of organised sport whatsoever to comment on whether a guy is mature or not.

“Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law"

What about that statement would a former professional footballer have any more insight on?
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Need a sticky on 'sarcasm' on SWDC!!!lol

So the dude was right about Jamarcus Russell, a fat, lazy POS coming out of LSU.

Who else has Nawrocki's Nostradamus level football prophecy been correct about??

There are legitimate critiques about Cam at the next level, as there are about every one of these QB prospects, but that junk from PFW was a hit piece, IMO.

Because someone was correct about a QB who busted, how is that Cam's situation??
Big strong armed QBs from the SEC, one has freakish athleticism to go along with that arm, the other was moderately athletic for a biggun.

People really need to re-evaluate why Jamarcus busted in the pros; I'll give you a snapshot of the worst indictment about the guy and why he's no longer in the league.

At one point in Oakland his offensive coaches gave him a CD ROM of an upcoming opponent to review at home.
When Jamarcus returned to the Raiders practice facility and was quizzed about the CD, Jamarcus admitted to watching the entire disc at which point is coaches admitted the CD was B-L-A-N-K.
That's the trifecta right there folks; lazy, stupid and a liar.

If we're going to make superficial comparisons to bolster a base level negative opinion about Newton, why not Jason Campbell?? Big arm, relatively mobile, 'led' Auburn to an undefeated season and Sugar Bowl win.

JC by all accounts is a model pro who works hard on and off the field, just not a very intuitive QB with a natural feel for the position, (too risk averse and not really comfortable riffing when a play doesn't develop the way it was designed).

If we're going to make lazy comparisons for Newton, let's go with Vick. No Cam doesn't have Vick's 4.2 speed, but he does have the arm and will be the 2nd best QB running the football the minute he signs his first contract.

Vick is better than Campbell, better than Russell. He turned Atlanta into a playoff contender despite being admittedly lazy in his game prep for most of his career before going to prison.

Newton may never be Peyton Manning/Brady/Rodgers in terms of his pure cerebral understanding of the game, but he will study IMO and know his team's gameplan inside and out prior to kickoff.

If Newton comes close to reaching his enormous potential, which is IMO McNabb without the dirtballs, he's going to roll big at the next level.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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At one point in Oakland his offensive coaches gave him a CD ROM of an upcoming opponent to review at home.
When Jamarcus returned to the Raiders practice facility and was quizzed about the CD, Jamarcus admitted to watching the entire disc at which point is coaches admitted the CD was B-L-A-N-K.
That's the trifecta right there folks; lazy, stupid and a liar.
Cam Newton got caught cheating three times in college and I've got some swampland for sale to anyone who believes he had no idea Cecil was soliciting a couple hundred grand in his name.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Newton is Roethelisberger.. That's about as simple as one can put it. Both strengths/weaknesses are the same
Ben is stronger but maybe some day Newton could get to that level of strength, i'm not sure. I also think Ben has a stronger arm and is more accurate.

As for Newton, and Gabbert to an extent, they are predicted to go so high they are probably getting abused a little too unfairly. In reality Newton should probably be talked up as going where Freeman went (17th) and Gabbert probably the 10-15 range. I personally have the top 3 QBs in the 10-15 range.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I fail to see the relevancy. If Nawrocki was saying about his mechanical issues or his ability to read defenses etc then maybe there would be a slight bit of logic in your point. But he is describing the man's mental makeup. You dont have to have played in the NFL or any sort of organised sport whatsoever to comment on whether a guy is mature or not.

“Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law"

What about that statement would a former professional footballer have any more insight on?
...that the bolded means squat in the grand scheme of things...If the guy can play, then that's IT.. #Joe Namath

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Old 03-29-2011, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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...that the bolded means squat in the grand scheme of things...If they guy can play, then that's IT.. #Joe Namath
The problem is that a guy who gets in trouble with his coach, his teammates, the law, and the commissioner can't play, no matter how talented he is.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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I think when it comes to QBs the standard for evaluating them is a lot higher than any other position.

If I was a GM with the first pick of the draft I would be looking for a squeaky clean guy off the field, a notoriously diligent guy in the film room, someone with a track record of being the first guy in/last guy out, preferably a senior with at least three years as a starter, durability, experience in a pro style system, and all the requisite physical tools needed to succeed.

Obviously Peyton Manning isn't going to come around every year, however generally I wouldn't be happy taking a guy with one year NCAA starting experience, mechanical issues, coming from a simplified spread system, maturity concerns, and rumoured and confirmed off the field issues high in the draft.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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I just finished reading this on Yahoo, very interesting stuff but I'm not surprised. Let's face it, Newton is a diva, he's got the Ryan Leaf bravado about him. Part of being a QB, especially in the NFL, is leading in the locker room and setting an example. Cam does neither of those. He's cocky and when he gets his first check I guarantee he makes it rain at the club.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Cam Newton got caught cheating three times in college and I've got some swampland for sale to anyone who believes he had no idea Cecil was soliciting a couple hundred grand in his name.
I guess these things don't matter to me... college players should be getting paid. It's kind of a farce that the University of Auburn expects Newton to play for his education, meanwhile they make millions and millions off the dude.

but taking money... or pretending not to know about it... this isn't like a felony. these are misdemeanors. it's not like that dude from TCU who had sex with his sister or whatever sick crap he was arrested for.

if we want to critique his football skills fair enough but the "fake smile" stuff is just haterade. ya know who else has a fake smile and loves to be the center of attention, Shaquille Oneal. Who cares as long as he can ball.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Cam Newton got caught cheating three times in college and I've got some swampland for sale to anyone who believes he had no idea Cecil was soliciting a couple hundred grand in his name.
If your evaluation of Newton begins and ends at Florida, at best your analysis on him is woefully incomplete.

I've known knucklehead athletes and God help them it seemed like know matter what they did or how much they changed environments, they found themselves involved in some kind of drama.

Let's be fair, Newton at Auburn was for the most part clean.

Again, do you have more info on the recruitment of Cam from Blinn, Scott??
Sorry, but the accusation by an SEC school of a member SEC school involved in recruiting violations is kind of like a prostitute calling another streetwalker a *****.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I guess these things don't matter to me... college players should be getting paid. It's kind of a farce that the University of Auburn expects Newton to play for his education, meanwhile they make millions and millions off the dude.

but taking money... or pretending not to know about it... this isn't like a felony. these are misdemeanors. it's not like that dude from TCU who had sex with his sister or whatever sick crap he was arrested for.

if we want to critique his football skills fair enough but the "fake smile" stuff is just haterade. ya know who else has a fake smile and loves to be the center of attention, Shaquille Oneal. Who cares as long as he can ball.
Agreed! I wish people would just critique what they see on tape and not what they read on TMZ..
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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“Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law"


He just described Joe Theismann and probably more than a few current 'stars' in the NFL, including QBs.

What pisses me off about this quote initially is, what prospect isn't scripted predraft and rehearsed about how he's going to answer potential questions during this process??

Criticizing a guy's smile is a little bitchy IMO.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
If your evaluation of Newton begins and ends at Florida, at best your analysis on him is woefully incomplete.

I've known knucklehead athletes and God help them it seemed like know matter what they did or how much they changed environments, they found themselves involved in some kind of drama.

Let's be fair, Newton at Auburn was for the most part clean.

Again, do you have more info on the recruitment of Cam from Blinn, Scott??
Sorry, but the accusation by an SEC school of a member SEC school involved in recruiting violations is kind of like a prostitute calling another streetwalker a *****.
BINGO!! Just trust what you see...its hard to go against your common sense. Its tough when people bring up Non-Football related stuff and use that as basis for critique.. Cheating on a test?? Welcome to College! His play was phenomenal on an Auburn team that would've been 6-5 without him.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
From Pro Football Weekly's Eric Edholm on Twitter (http://twitter.com/Eric_Edholm):





As I've said, Nolan Nawrocki knows what he's doing and has an impeccable reputation. If Nolan is saying this stuff about Newton it's because he has excellent sources who are telling him.
Well, he just had Lance Kendricks and Orlando Franklin going in the first round of his most recent mock. I know we all try to project surprise picks, but if either one of them go ine first, it will make the Tyson Alualu pick look like great value.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Im sure the point is, its hard to take a persons opinion about something, if he hasnt actually done what he is evaluating. In this case its football. How can someone that has never played the game, never had the pressure of a national championship game, say this guy has all the problems he claims. Cam has had no trouble since florida (and that was immature type stuff), has been a leader for his team, on and off the field, gained the respect of the heisman trust to win the trophy yet, cant get backed by a guy who never played the game. I'll keep laughing to myself while you figure that one out. I cant respect
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Jake Locker is my guy. If I had to draft a qb in this draft, I'm drafting Locker.

I hate Mallet's footwork and off the field issues, I hate Newton's off the field issues and dedication to the game, I hate Gabbert's everything besides his arm.

Locker's flaws are very correctable and I feel like if he sits and studies behind a great offensive coaching staff, he can be special.
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