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Old 04-18-2011, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by the natural View Post
The top NFL quarterbacks today averaged around 30 on the Wonderlic. I don't think any starter except Mike Vick scored lower than Newton. There is some reason to doubt.
I am pretty sure mcnabb scored a 14 and just to show how useless the wonderlic is jamarcus russell scored a 24

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Old 04-18-2011, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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people forget that Professional football is entertainment.

little story: my company has basketball tickets. the local team sucks. But when Lebron James comes to town, people snap up those tickets. When the Houston Rockets come to town no one gives a rat's ass.

Cam Newton is a name. Love him or hate him... a businessman might want to bring a client to a game featuring Cam Newton. Root for him to succeed or fail it doesn't matter he puts asses in the seats. No one's putting on their shoes to see Jimmy Clausen.
But that only works for so long. Newton may put people in the stands for a year or two but if he sucks then those fans wont keep going back. Nothing will bring fans to the stadium like winning. Loyal fans arent the ones generating the revenue for teams. Its the fair weather fans who flock to the stadium when their team is winning that do. If the Panthers are planning on long term financial gain due to fan support then they better build a winning franchise. It is questionable whether or not Newton gives them a base to do so.
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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I dont think anyone is piling on Cam Newton (that is sure to come up) because since the end of the season his stock has continued to rise while his workouts and interviews are not. He was very erratic at the combine and only slightly more accurate at his pro day. I guess for every interview like the one with Gruden there are people who say he has done well in private meetings with teams. At the end of the day the issue still is a very limited resume and questionable accuracy. Add to that he's coming from a system where a lot of reads are not required.

In a way i agree with Scott's implication that you dont take him at the top of the draft. To me he is a bit of a project who makes sense in the mid-first round.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Nothing will bring fans to the stadium like winning. .
there's not a magic "winning" formula. there are 31 losers every year and 1 winner. it's hard to win. But it's easy to sell Cam Newton... besides he'll win more than 2 games. Guaranteed.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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there's not a magic "winning" formula. there are 31 losers every year and 1 winner. it's hard to win. But it's easy to sell Cam Newton... besides he'll win more than 2 games. Guaranteed.
Yeah for sure he will. He will also generate a lot of fan interest. But that fan interest will fade if they continue to lose. You also don't have to win the Superbowl every year to fill your stadiums and buy your merchandise.

There is no winning formula however there are generally accepted ways of building consistent teams.

The Green Bay Packers have shown a blueprint of how strong drafting can make you a winner.

The Baltimore Ravens who operate a specific BPA approach to the draft are also perennial contenders.

The New England Patriots go on specific schematic value charts in their approach to drafting and generally build their teams with a strong middle.

The Indianapolis Colts have their elite QB and win by surrounding him with as much offensive talent so they can score points and force teams to throw. Then their dynamic pass rushers can get to work.

These are not magic formulas but basic concepts that many teams should have a look at. Adding Newton because he is marketable is a short term business decision that may or may not work. If he busts the fans wont buy his jerseys and go and watch him lose at the stadium.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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So, let me see if I understand what is going on here...

Cam Newton plays lights out in the toughest conference. Throws 30 tds with 7 ints and the offense is considered gimmicky and one-read. Oh..and he ran for 1500 and 20 tds..

So, that one read was open THAT many times during a game? Fascinating! Then there must be many dumbass Def. Coordinators in college football.

Most people are now bringing up everything he's done AFTER the season.. I've come to realize that more scouts, both NFL and Internet, based their opinions on BS and not on actual Game Film. Fascinating!

With all do respect to some on this board...you guys would make horrible GM, Scouts and Coaches..

Trust what you see.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Almost right. Not.

David Gerrard, Derek Anderson and Donovan McNabb all scored lower than Newton.

Henne, Favre and Tebow scored exactly one point higher.

Peyton scored a 28. His little brother scored a 39.

I'll take big bro to be my wonderlic tutor, you can work out something with Elijah.
Of those, only Gerrard and Henne qualify as starters, and neither is top echelon. NFL offenses are becoming more complex and the days of QBs with Wonderlic scores in the low 20s are numbered.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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seriously? let me know when you take a look at his senior season numbers which were, iirc, the best in the nation in almost all passing categories. or are you actually of the opinion that his freshman and sophomore numbers are what kept him out of the nfl?
Chang was about 25 by the time he left college, so obviously you have to look at his whole career there. When a guy hangs around for five or six years in a gimmicky offense, sooner or later it's going to click for him. He was there long enough to throw 80 freaking interceptions.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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There are plenty reasons to doubt Newton at the moment but I understand the frustration. There seems to be two camps at the moment.

One says Cam Newton is clearly going to end up in prison because he has a history of being a thief and is so dumb he can't say the alphabet let alone digest a playbook. He is also the fakest person in the world and anytime he smiles he is actually thinking of kicking puppies in the head. Then when he gets on the field he can't hit an open WR with all kinds of time and as soon as the ball has snapped he starts running.

The other says that Newton is a harshly treated, misunderstood soul. It was obviously his father who stole the laptop as well as soliciting his son for money. His genuine smile and well spoken nature show what a fine young man he is and the only time he is not being the hardest worker of all time is when he is selflessly donating his time to make the world a better place. When he's on the field he is a leader of great men. He is comparable to Nelson Mandela in his ability to lead his people and his football ability is a combination of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson. Quite clearly he is the chosen one.

How about everyone calm on the over reactions. Newton is a supremely talented football player who may be a once in a generation talent. However there are enough reasons to be wary of this, all of which have been stated numerous times.

As I have said a few times already in this thread, if I was picking high in the draft I wouldnt take Newton. It may come back to haunt me and may lose me my job but based on what we know I don't see how you could comfortably draft him highly
This is a more than fair assesment of Newton. The guy has all the talent in the world and there are significant character concerns that should be addressed in interviews and background checks with people at all three universitys that he attended. I for one won't slam taking Newton with a high pick particularly Tennessee or the vikings.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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So, let me see if I understand what is going on here...

Cam Newton plays lights out in the toughest conference. Throws 30 tds with 7 ints and the offense is considered gimmicky and one-read. Oh..and he ran for 1500 and 20 tds..

So, that one read was open THAT many times during a game? Fascinating! Then there must be many dumbass Def. Coordinators in college football.

Most people are now bringing up everything he's done AFTER the season.. I've come to realize that more scouts, both NFL and Internet, based their opinions on BS and not on actual Game Film. Fascinating!

With all do respect to some on this board...you guys would make horrible GM, Scouts and Coaches..

Trust what you see.
The SEC defenses were not even close to as good as they have been in recent years. Sure, many SEC teams were ranked highly, but those numbers are certainly inflated by playing dreadful offenses like LSU, Florida, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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So, let me see if I understand what is going on here...

Cam Newton plays lights out in the toughest conference. Throws 30 tds with 7 ints and the offense is considered gimmicky and one-read. Oh..and he ran for 1500 and 20 tds..

So, that one read was open THAT many times during a game? Fascinating! Then there must be many dumbass Def. Coordinators in college football.

Most people are now bringing up everything he's done AFTER the season.. I've come to realize that more scouts, both NFL and Internet, based their opinions on BS and not on actual Game Film. Fascinating!

With all do respect to some on this board...you guys would make horrible GM, Scouts and Coaches..

Trust what you see.
When teams have to legislate so much for Newton's ability to take off and run quite often that one route was open. In the NFL Newton will face DEs who have the same speed as him and LBs who are bigger than a lot of the defenseive linemen he played against. NFL Offensive coordinators will not want Newton to run as many times in the pros.

Trust what you see in the NFL. Michael Vick is the only player to have any real success as a dual threat QB and he has injury issues due to his style. Defenses are bigger, stronger and faster than in any BCS conference. If people think he is going to go in and play exactly the same way then they are kidding themselves.

No matter what way you look at it Malzahn's offense is gimmicky. If it was such a great offense that transcended talent and athletic levels then he would be an NFL coordinator or coach. It's the same way that coaches of other statiscally impressive spread styles aren't in the pro game...because it doesn't work.

Lets compare a random NFL defense against say even Alabama who is run by a genius defensive mind.

Really outside of Dareus, Upshaw, Kirkpatrick, Hightower and Barron there are no real standouts on the defense. And in the second half of the Iron Bowl Newton shredded them.

Now take for example Kansas City. Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry etc. These players are all potentially very good players in the NFL, some with all pro potential. This is an average defense. Newton is not going to throw and run all over these guys if the offense is simply put on him.

NFL defensive coordinators are going to come up with ways to take Newton out of his comfort zone on a regular basis. He cant just tuck it and run everytime. How does he adjust?

In college you can win by simply being more athletic than the guy you are facing off against. What does he do when he isn't the most athletic player on the field?
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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The SEC defenses were not even close to as good as they have been in recent years. Sure, many SEC teams were ranked highly, but those numbers are certainly inflated by playing dreadful offenses like LSU, Florida, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt.
Huh? I'm confused...
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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When teams have to legislate so much for Newton's ability to take off and run quite often that one route was open. In the NFL Newton will face DEs who have the same speed as him and LBs who are bigger than a lot of the defenseive linemen he played against. NFL Offensive coordinators will not want Newton to run as many times in the pros.

Trust what you see in the NFL. Michael Vick is the only player to have any real success as a dual threat QB and he has injury issues due to his style. Defenses are bigger, stronger and faster than in any BCS conference. If people think he is going to go in and play exactly the same way then they are kidding themselves.

No matter what way you look at it Malzahn's offense is gimmicky. If it was such a great offense that transcended talent and athletic levels then he would be an NFL coordinator or coach. It's the same way that coaches of other statiscally impressive spread styles aren't in the pro game...because it doesn't work.

Lets compare a random NFL defense against say even Alabama who is run by a genius defensive mind.

Really outside of Dareus, Upshaw, Kirkpatrick, Hightower and Barron there are no stars on the defense. And in the second half of the Iron Bowl Newton shredded them.

Now take for example Kansas City. Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry etc. These players are all potentially very good players in the NFL. This is an average defense. Newton is not going to throw and run all over these guys if the offense is simply put on him.

NFL defensive coordinators are going to come up with ways to take Newton out of his comfort zone on a regular basis. He cant just tuck it and run everytime. How does he adjust?

In college you can win by simply being more athletic than the guy you are facing off against. What does he do when he isn't the most athletic player on the field?
First, Vick is 6'0 and a light 200 lbs...Plus runs with reckless abandon.

Second, Newton runs with more control and knows how/when to get down.

Explain 30 TD PASSES with 7 INTS.. That's hard to gimmick dude.. that's Talent.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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SEC was the toughest defensive conference in the country. Come off that inflated numbers crap.

The Big 12, Big 10, the ACC and Big East are several steps below the level of defensive play on a weekly basis played in the SEC.

Cam Newton and Mallett put up REAL numbers last year.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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SEC was the toughest defensive conference in the country. Come off that inflated numbers crap.

The Big 12, Big 10, the ACC and Big East are several steps below the level of defensive play on a weekly basis played in the SEC.

Cam Newton and Mallett put up REAL numbers last year.
Again, FunBuncher is dropping KNOWLEDGE on this thread based off what he SEES...

Its hard to deny that Newton and Mallett are the best QBs in this draft..Other QBs have talent, don't get me wrong, but these two have gamebreaking qualities
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
So, let me see if I understand what is going on here...

Cam Newton plays lights out in the toughest conference. Throws 30 tds with 7 ints and the offense is considered gimmicky and one-read. Oh..and he ran for 1500 and 20 tds..

So, that one read was open THAT many times during a game? Fascinating! Then there must be many dumbass Def. Coordinators in college football.

Most people are now bringing up everything he's done AFTER the season.. I've come to realize that more scouts, both NFL and Internet, based their opinions on BS and not on actual Game Film. Fascinating!

With all do respect to some on this board...you guys would make horrible GM, Scouts and Coaches..

Trust what you see.

The Malzahn-Hand offense (let alone many offenses) are 'one read' because you can pretty much figure out where everyone fits within the passing concept from what that one player does. So you may READ one defender, but have a variety of throws to make.

The play-action, for instance, in their offense is premised off of one safety against Post-Dig
Throw to the guy that safety didn't jump.

Trust what I see. I saw Paul Smith throw for 46 tds and 5,000 yards in the same system. I saw Tech quarterbacks throwing for a ton every season under Leach, but the Airraid is a little different than the passing concepts that Malazhn uses, Leach was more horizontal and Malazhn is more vertical, which is why most of his qbs have averaged a high yard per attempt, Paul Smith was over 9 yards per attempt, and David Johnson was 10 yards per attempt.

Smartfootball has this to say about whether he was a one read qb

Compounding this in Newton’s case is that almost all the attention on his offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn’s offense has been on the running game, while the passing game has received very little attention. This is not a surprise, given the dynamic and multifaceted run game Malzahn employs, and given that, especially with Cam, the run set up the pass. But it ignores the fact that Auburn led the nation in passing efficiency and threw for over 3,000 yards last season — we’re not talking about Paul Johnson’s flexbone here.

Indeed, Malzahn’s reputation as a high school coach was as an air-it-out guy, and in his first season at Tulsa in 2007, the Golden Hurricane were second in the country in passing yards with over 5,000, behind only pass-happy attacks from June Jones at Hawai’i and Mike Leach at Texas Tech. (They were also second in the nation in yards per attempt, behind only the Tebow-led Florida Gators.)

So Malzahn knows the pass, and Newton was obviously good at what he was asked to do. But what was that? I can only speculate on what specifics Cam was given, but I am familiar with Gus’s passing game and have a strong idea of how it was tailored to Cam Newton.

Gus, going back to Tulsa, uses progression reads, meaning his quarterbacks read the first receiver, to the second receiver, to the third receiver, and so on. That means that there’s no way Cam was given a “single read” — a single receiver to look at — or did Malzahn literally tell him to only look at one guy and to ignore everyone else? No to the first but, at least sometimes, yes to the second. This is because if there was one read it was not a single receiver, but a single defender.

For example, take the smash concept, a play that Gus has in his arsenal. The progression on the play is: corner route to hitch/underneath route, making it a two receiver progression (and a third if you have the runningback checking down over the middle). But you can also teach the play as a single receiver “key” read: Read the corner — if he stays with the hitch, throw the corner; if he drops for the corner, throw the hitch.




"Thus in this case, it might not actually be inaccurate to say that Newton had only a “single read,” but it’s also a bit misleading. Indeed, many NFL quarterbacks only have a “single read” if this is the definition, though they might have some other read or key telling them which single read to focus on. But, while I think this “single read” was sometimes the case, I think more likely Gus used the progression read, giving Cam the typical suite of “reads”: one, two, three, throw-it-away/run.

Chris Petersen of Boise State once set forth his view of a quarterback’s development as follows:

1. Strict progression. Tell him to read first receiver, second receiver, and then third receiver — and then run like hell if they aren’t open. In Petersen’s view, if they don’t know anything else they can know, by rote memory, who they are supposed to throw to. This doesn’t require them to have any advance knowledge of the defense and it is where every quarterback begins.
2. Progression with coverage keys. The same progression concept as above except that the progression and sequence of receivers is determined by what the defense is doing. How many safeties are there? What kind of leverage are you getting from the cornerbacks? Is it a blitz? Is it man or zone? Once you’ve determined that, it’s one-two-three.
3. Coverage reads. This is the advanced NFL stuff: Tom Brady sees the defense doing X, so he looks one way and then rifles it back to the receiver he always knew he was going to because he understood the coverage, he understood the technique the defense was playing, and he understood the theory of the play he was running. There are few, if any, college quarterbacks who ever do this kind of thing.

I think Petersen explained it well. Good college quarterbacks should be at level two: They should be able to come to the sideline after a mistake and explain why they threw it to a guy, and what they saw. They should be able to draw the pass play on the whiteboard but also describe the coverages and tell you why a play should get open, and they should be able to enjoy some freedom to determine their progression.This is also how Gus teaches it.

Note that not every play needs that kind of analysis — sometimes you just have a play-action pass where you want the safety to move so you can hit the deep post, and if not you have a deep crosser and a checkdown, but in general that’s the level of knowledge you want about the passing game. The great ones go on to the pros where they either learn the kind of complete symbiosis with passing game, scheme, technique, timing and coverage necessary to succeed; there, the difference is between knowing computer programming languages and the end of the Matrix where Neo becomes one with the Matrix itself. I’m not convinced that can be taught, but one and two certainly can.

I’m not sure Cam made it all the way to level two — I’m not sure he had to, and I know that when he got to Auburn from Blinn college he hadn’t quite gotten there. But he clearly understood level one, in that he knew where his receivers were and he was extremely efficient throughout the year. Had he stayed for another year I think he would have continued developing as a passer, but now he’ll have to make a more significant leap.

The upshot, however, is that this makes Cam simply like most other quarterback prospects in this year’s draft: He has more to learn before he’ll be a great NFL quarterback. That should not be a shock to anyone. Blaine Gabbert played in a pretty sophisticated offense (see this great interview with Dave Matter), but he wasn’t always perfect doing it, and I’m not sure how convinced anyone is that the other quarterback prospects — Mallett, Locker, etc — achieved “mastery” of the Petersen’s “level 2″ as I’ve described it above. Cam’s big advantage is his immense physical ability, and his disadvantage is the same as everyone else’s: He’s going to have to keep working at it to show he can improve and do it at an NFL level."

So basically, yes he is a good athlete, but he is a raw project at qb, and is a reach in the first round, much like Tebow, except Tebow didn't look that bad when Gruden was talking to him.

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Old 04-18-2011, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
First, Vick is 6'0 and a light 200 lbs...Plus runs with reckless abandon.

Second, Newton runs with more control and knows how/when to get down.

Explain 30 TD PASSES with 7 INTS.. That's hard to gimmick dude.. that's Talent.
No doubt, the guy has insane amounts of talent. But does his talent convert to the style he will need to play in the NFL?

Im not trying to bash Newton and say he will fail nor am I backing him to say he will succeed. He has a skill set, which if nutured properly, has a chance of succeeding and if his work ethic is as publicised then he can do it.

However when looking at how he was successful it is not unreasonable to be wary of how he tranlsates to the pro game. Will he stand in the pocket and go through 3 or even 4 reads when Julius Peppers and Brian Urlacher are baring down on him or will he take off and run?

If I was to draft Newton I would want him to play the game like Aaron Rodgers. Be a thrower first and foremost. If it's not there get out of the pocket but stay behind the line of scrimmage and keep your eyes downfield looking for an open WR. If no one comes open then sure tuck it and run.

In general designed running plays are seldom successful in the NFL. If an offensive coordinator wants Newton to be a dual threat QB then I believe it will stunt his growth as a passer. And regardless of if he has 1000 yards rushing at any stage in his career ultimately he will be judged on his abilities throwing the ball as it is a passing league.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by batsandgats View Post
The Malzahn-Hand offense (let alone many offenses) are 'one read' because you can pretty much figure out where everyone fits within the passing concept from what that one player does. So you may READ one defender, but have a variety of throws to make.

The play-action, for instance, in their offense is premised off of one safety against Post-Dig
Throw to the guy that safety didn't jump.

Trust what I see. I saw Paul Smith throw for 46 tds and 5,000 yards in the same system. I saw Tech quarterbacks throwing for a ton every season under Leach, but the Airraid is a little different than the passing concepts that Malazhn uses, Leach was more horizontal and Malazhn is more vertical, which is why most of his qbs have averaged a high yard per attempt, Paul Smith was over 9 yards per attempt, and David Johnson was 10 yards per attempt.

Smartfootball has this to say about whether he was a one read qb

Compounding this in Newton’s case is that almost all the attention on his offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn’s offense has been on the running game, while the passing game has received very little attention. This is not a surprise, given the dynamic and multifaceted run game Malzahn employs, and given that, especially with Cam, the run set up the pass. But it ignores the fact that Auburn led the nation in passing efficiency and threw for over 3,000 yards last season — we’re not talking about Paul Johnson’s flexbone here.

Indeed, Malzahn’s reputation as a high school coach was as an air-it-out guy, and in his first season at Tulsa in 2007, the Golden Hurricane were second in the country in passing yards with over 5,000, behind only pass-happy attacks from June Jones at Hawai’i and Mike Leach at Texas Tech. (They were also second in the nation in yards per attempt, behind only the Tebow-led Florida Gators.)

So Malzahn knows the pass, and Newton was obviously good at what he was asked to do. But what was that? I can only speculate on what specifics Cam was given, but I am familiar with Gus’s passing game and have a strong idea of how it was tailored to Cam Newton.

Gus, going back to Tulsa, uses progression reads, meaning his quarterbacks read the first receiver, to the second receiver, to the third receiver, and so on. That means that there’s no way Cam was given a “single read” — a single receiver to look at — or did Malzahn literally tell him to only look at one guy and to ignore everyone else? No to the first but, at least sometimes, yes to the second. This is because if there was one read it was not a single receiver, but a single defender.

For example, take the smash concept, a play that Gus has in his arsenal. The progression on the play is: corner route to hitch/underneath route, making it a two receiver progression (and a third if you have the runningback checking down over the middle). But you can also teach the play as a single receiver “key” read: Read the corner — if he stays with the hitch, throw the corner; if he drops for the corner, throw the hitch.




"Thus in this case, it might not actually be inaccurate to say that Newton had only a “single read,” but it’s also a bit misleading. Indeed, many NFL quarterbacks only have a “single read” if this is the definition, though they might have some other read or key telling them which single read to focus on. But, while I think this “single read” was sometimes the case, I think more likely Gus used the progression read, giving Cam the typical suite of “reads”: one, two, three, throw-it-away/run.

Chris Petersen of Boise State once set forth his view of a quarterback’s development as follows:

1. Strict progression. Tell him to read first receiver, second receiver, and then third receiver — and then run like hell if they aren’t open. In Petersen’s view, if they don’t know anything else they can know, by rote memory, who they are supposed to throw to. This doesn’t require them to have any advance knowledge of the defense and it is where every quarterback begins.
2. Progression with coverage keys. The same progression concept as above except that the progression and sequence of receivers is determined by what the defense is doing. How many safeties are there? What kind of leverage are you getting from the cornerbacks? Is it a blitz? Is it man or zone? Once you’ve determined that, it’s one-two-three.
3. Coverage reads. This is the advanced NFL stuff: Tom Brady sees the defense doing X, so he looks one way and then rifles it back to the receiver he always knew he was going to because he understood the coverage, he understood the technique the defense was playing, and he understood the theory of the play he was running. There are few, if any, college quarterbacks who ever do this kind of thing.

I think Petersen explained it well. Good college quarterbacks should be at level two: They should be able to come to the sideline after a mistake and explain why they threw it to a guy, and what they saw. They should be able to draw the pass play on the whiteboard but also describe the coverages and tell you why a play should get open, and they should be able to enjoy some freedom to determine their progression.This is also how Gus teaches it.

Note that not every play needs that kind of analysis — sometimes you just have a play-action pass where you want the safety to move so you can hit the deep post, and if not you have a deep crosser and a checkdown, but in general that’s the level of knowledge you want about the passing game. The great ones go on to the pros where they either learn the kind of complete symbiosis with passing game, scheme, technique, timing and coverage necessary to succeed; there, the difference is between knowing computer programming languages and the end of the Matrix where Neo becomes one with the Matrix itself. I’m not convinced that can be taught, but one and two certainly can.

I’m not sure Cam made it all the way to level two — I’m not sure he had to, and I know that when he got to Auburn from Blinn college he hadn’t quite gotten there. But he clearly understood level one, in that he knew where his receivers were and he was extremely efficient throughout the year. Had he stayed for another year I think he would have continued developing as a passer, but now he’ll have to make a more significant leap.

The upshot, however, is that this makes Cam simply like most other quarterback prospects in this year’s draft: He has more to learn before he’ll be a great NFL quarterback. That should not be a shock to anyone. Blaine Gabbert played in a pretty sophisticated offense (see this great interview with Dave Matter), but he wasn’t always perfect doing it, and I’m not sure how convinced anyone is that the other quarterback prospects — Mallett, Locker, etc — achieved “mastery” of the Petersen’s “level 2″ as I’ve described it above. Cam’s big advantage is his immense physical ability, and his disadvantage is the same as everyone else’s: He’s going to have to keep working at it to show he can improve and do it at an NFL level."
30tds 7 ints in a Simply-Gimmicky-2nd Grade-Street Ball-Curious George-SW Kentucky-sweet georgia brown-Offense..

In LIVE action...QBs under-duress rarely go to their 3rd or 4th targets.. its 1-2-checkdown, takeoff, or get sacked.

Its best to have a mobile (different from running) QB in pressure situations because as an offense, you're never in a bad play. Plus what helps Newton and Mallett over Gabbert and Locker is they have ZERO fear in pressure situation. Although Mallett throws untimely ints...he's NEVER scared to make those throws.. I'll take QBs like that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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No doubt, the guy has insane amounts of talent. But does his talent convert to the style he will need to play in the NFL?

Im not trying to bash Newton and say he will fail nor am I backing him to say he will succeed. He has a skill set, which if nutured properly, has a chance of succeeding and if his work ethic is as publicised then he can do it.

However when looking at how he was successful it is not unreasonable to be wary of how he tranlsates to the pro game. Will he stand in the pocket and go through 3 or even 4 reads when Julius Peppers and Brian Urlacher are baring down on him or will he take off and run?

If I was to draft Newton I would want him to play the game like Aaron Rodgers. Be a thrower first and foremost. If it's not there get out of the pocket but stay behind the line of scrimmage and keep your eyes downfield looking for an open WR. If no one comes open then sure tuck it and run.

In general designed running plays are seldom successful in the NFL. If an offensive coordinator wants Newton to be a dual threat QB then I believe it will stunt his growth as a passer. And regardless of if he has 1000 yards rushing at any stage in his career ultimately he will be judged on his abilities throwing the ball as it is a passing league.
Agreed.. Rogers & McNair (minus taking the vicious hits) would be what you want a Cam Newton to be..
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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SEC was the toughest defensive conference in the country. Come off that inflated numbers crap.

The Big 12, Big 10, the ACC and Big East are several steps below the level of defensive play on a weekly basis played in the SEC.

Cam Newton and Mallett put up REAL numbers last year.
Auburn drops 37 on Kentucky, 65 on Arkansas, 51 on Ole Miss, 49 on Georgia, and and average or 45 on South Carolina. Meanwhile, they score under 28 against Clemson and Oregon. The SEC defenses were average this season.

For more evidence, Florida dropped 31 on Tennessee, 48 on Kentucky, 34 on Georgia, 29 on LSU, and 55 on Vanderbilt. Anyone who watched Florida this year knows their offense was one of the ugliest things on turf.

The SEC was vastly overrated this season. They had the best player and once again the best team. But outside of Auburn and Alabama, the SEC teams were very down this year.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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30tds 7 ints in a Simply-Gimmicky-2nd Grade-Street Ball-Curious George-SW Kentucky-sweet georgia brown-Offense..

In LIVE action...QBs under-duress rarely go to their 3rd or 4th targets.. its 1-2-checkdown, takeoff, or get sacked.

Its best to have a mobile (different from running) QB in pressure situations because as an offense, you're never in a bad play. Plus what helps Newton and Mallett over Gabbert and Locker is they have ZERO fear in pressure situation. Although Mallett throws untimely ints...he's NEVER scared to make those throws.. I'll take QBs like that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I do have to agree with that. Regardless of the type of offense or system or opponent or anything you wanna bring up Newton stepped up on the big stages. Being a winner is very important in the evaluation of him
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I do have to agree with that. Regardless of the type of offense or system or opponent or anything you wanna bring up Newton stepped up on the big stages. Being a winner is very important in the evaluation of him
That's the KEY element in evaluating QBs... Which is why I like Stanzi over Gabbert.. Stanzi GETS it, ya know?
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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30tds 7 ints in a Simply-Gimmicky-2nd Grade-Street Ball-Curious George-SW Kentucky-sweet georgia brown-Offense..

In LIVE action...QBs under-duress rarely go to their 3rd or 4th targets.. its 1-2-checkdown, takeoff, or get sacked.

Its best to have a mobile (different from running) QB in pressure situations because as an offense, you're never in a bad play. Plus what helps Newton and Mallett over Gabbert and Locker is they have ZERO fear in pressure situation. Although Mallett throws untimely ints...he's NEVER scared to make those throws.. I'll take QBs like that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Thanks for hitting the quote button on such a long post that takes up most of the page without actually reading the entire thing. Yes alot of NFL qbs do 1-2 checkdown, but that isn't the case ALWAYS. I have seen quartebacks like Brees go through all of his reads, under stress, while moving around in the pocket. Or do you want someone like David Garrard who is captain checkdown in pressure situations? You can't run all the time in the NFL when pressure gets to you. What would you rather though, a qb that picks up 10 yards with his feet when he sees a wide open crease, or a qb that tries to extend the play in the pocket, looking for an open man down the field, maybe 20 to 30 yards? I have seen Jake Locker use his feet to extend plays and throw on the run, sometimes way down the field. I didn't see that as much with Newton. I would say right now, he is a running qb, not mobile. The only throw that I can recall from memory while escaping pressure with his feet, was in the Alabama game to number 48. Most of the time, under pressure it was either running forward or standing still and getting the pass off right before a defender hit him. I didn't see much of a "mobile" qb, one that runs around the pocket and looks for a throw down the field. In the NFL, hes not going to be breaking off as big of runs, nfl defenders will close in on him much quicker. Gruden said it best with Locker, running is a weapon, but only use it if you have to, don't abuse it.

When was Locker ever scared? Who is to say what kind of numbers he puts up in Malazhn's offense, where the concepts are simpler, and they go at a faster pace, so he relies more on instinct? Locker looks good running the ball, and made some nice throws on the run as well. I think he wouldve excelled in an offense like Auburn or what Meyer was running with Tebow.

I think Newton can become a good mobile qb, with time, but he is a raw project at this point.

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That's the KEY element in evaluating QBs... Which is why I like Stanzi over Gabbert.. Stanzi GETS it, ya know?
In evaluating QBs there a number of things that need to be looked for. Some are more important than others

Accuracy
Decision Making
Leadership
Coming up big in clutch situations
Winner

Pocket Awareness
Experience in a pro style
Arm Strength
Mobility

Size
Running ability

Those are how I would rank the attributes needed. Really is there ever the perfect QB prospect? Peyton Manning had most but not all. Matthew Stafford had lots but not all. Matt Ryan had lots but not all.

When it comes to Newton he has a lot of desirable qualities but not all essential ones IMO and that is why I wouldn't draft him highly.

The Panthers really are in a catch 22.

If they take him and he fails then there were enough warning signs as to why they shouldn't take him

If they pass and he succeeds then Hurney is screwed either way.
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That's the KEY element in evaluating QBs... Which is why I like Stanzi over Gabbert.. Stanzi GETS it, ya know?
Iowa was 8-5 and Missouri 10-3. What exactly is Stanzi getting.
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