PFW "Clobbers" Cam Newton

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I agree completely that Fairley was a major part of the puzzle but 50 TD's is awful impressive to me.

sure, i don't mean to imply that i don't think newton had any part in their success. but it started with 'they're like, a 6 win team, at best, without him' to 'they're like, a 1 win team, at best, with any other quarterback ever' to 'he was the only thing worth **** on that team, and they'd probably have been through out of D-I football if he hadn't shown up on campus' (yes, i'm hyperbolizing the hyperbole). there's no need for that, if you really think he'll be successful.

for instance, i don't believe any of his detractors have ever so much as intimated that he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, no matter what their opinion of his off-field activity.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by njx9

and that's why nick fairley is a 6th round pick.

or maybe, just maybe, this is hyperbole that just keeps getting more and more ridiculous every single time someone suggests it.

Purely hypothetical on my part as are most of these debates, but if you took Newton off that Auburn team and started his backup, leaving the rest of the team intact, what do you project they're record to have been??

I totally agree that Fairley played almost as important a role in the success of Auburn last year as Newton did, and I personally believe if Fairley didn't play like three men in the NC game, Auburn easily could have lost.

But I still believe without Cam, Auburn was barely a 6 win football team.

EDIT:

Cam visited Redskins Park Friday and the collective coaching staff and front office management had a massive circle jerk over the kid!!

They loved him to death and from reports it sounds like he's their top prospect in the draft.

Too bad there's absolutely no chance SHanahan gets the opportunity to coach him.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Purely hypothetical on my part as are most of these debates, but if you took Newton off that Auburn team and started his backup, leaving the rest of the team intact, what do you project they're record to have been??

I totally agree that Fairley played almost as important a role in the success of Auburn last year as Newton did, and I personally believe if Fairley didn't play like three men in the NC game, Auburn easily could have lost.

But I still believe without Cam, Auburn was barely a 6 win football team.

fair enough, but let's take, say, locker away from UW for whoever his backup was. or mallett. or, heck, dalton.

i get that he was important to his team, but any of the top qbs could say more or less the same. and even if they couldn't, would that really have been an argument against, say, carson palmer? i mean, matt leinart did all right the next year.

EDIT:

Cam visited Redskins Park Friday and the collective coaching staff and from office management had a massive circle jerk over the kid!!

They loved him to death and from reports it sounds like he's their top prospect in the draft.

Too bad there's absolutely no chance SHanahan gets the opportunity to coach him.

keep in mind, shanny *will* move up when he wants a guy. if carolina isn't interested, you've suddenly got much more palatable trade options (to move to say, 3 or 4). and you know snyder wouldn't mind doing something splashy.

i still think locker's the best qb in the draft for shanahan's offense, though.

[romo4prez415]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

Easy guy, no need to get hostile! :o)

Here is how I'd assess Russell vs. Newton in the categories you mentioned:

Competitiveness - Newton.
Overall Performance - Russell, because he performed well in a pro-style system.
Ability to Handle Pressure - Newton, both on and off the field.
Work Ethic - Push as both have concerns in this department.
Leadership - Push. There is more to leadership than being rah-rah on the field
Intelligence - Push.

The comedy continues to get better and better. There is no point of touching this because there is no way you can logically reason and watch both players as prospects and come away with this evaluation.

[romo4prez415]

Originally Posted by njx9

fair enough, but let's take, say, locker away from UW for whoever his backup was. or mallett. or, heck, dalton.

i get that he was important to his team, but any of the top qbs could say more or less the same. and even if they couldn't, would that really have been an argument against, say, carson palmer? i mean, matt leinart did all right the next year.



keep in mind, shanny *will* move up when he wants a guy. if carolina isn't interested, you've suddenly got much more palatable trade options (to move to say, 3 or 4). and you know snyder wouldn't mind doing something splashy.

i still think locker's the best qb in the draft for shanahan's offense, though.

I've got Locker #1 as well but Newton is my #2. Not high on Gabbert or Mallet.

[BigBanger]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

BB who are you to say that Cam is using words he doesn't know, or was coached to drop in interviews??
The underlying bias in that statement is disgusting.

I know it's comforting for some fans to believe that certain athletes MUST be mentally handicapped, but IMO it's rarely true.

Lots of these guys are 'bilingual', meaning they enjoy flipping slang all day every day with their boyz, but still know how to speak like a student or someone who's actually completed a homework assignment in college.

For some reason fans/scouts keep getting tripped up on this idiomatic contradiction when evaluating players.

Sometimes a player's speech pattern is a stylistic choice and not a direct indicator of their innate intelligence.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=637...goryid=2378529

Wow. Cam is stupid. Listen to his comments. First alarming thing from that interview... he can't even remember a play from Auburn's playbook other than "36," which was held up on a grease board from the sidelines. He can't even call out his favorite play? Any play? Wow. That's really bad. Gruden made him look really stupid.

Then Gruden talks forever about him and Cam doesn't even look at him. Little weird. Almost as weird as Clausen's reaction last year when Gruden critiqued him. ** I would like to see his notepad from that interview by the way **

Third thing, when he starts talking about "the simple gun." "A gun, right? I mean I know it's a violent, uh, symbol, but I'm that."

That **** right there. He's talking about ammunition (people badmouthing him, which gives him his drive to be better), then all of a sudden he's like, oh ****, I just talked about a gun, I better say something that doesn't make it sound like I'm a gun toting thug that likes violence. Little comments like that -- "I mean I know it's a violent symbol" -- they just don't need to be said, but he's so scripted and so fake that it just makes him look like a con-artist. A very bad one, but a con-artists nonetheless. He's a stupid, fake cheater that lies like a rug. Just flat out dumb.

Cam has repeatedly told everyone in interviews that he really has no idea what playing QB is all about (during this process). After throwing awful at the Combine he says, "I under estimated the timing aspect of playing QB." Really, a QB would underestimate that? Okay...

Now, he can't even recite a play from Auburn's playbook. Then he says it himself about the system, "Simplistic = fast." That's all he knows. Simple offenses that a complete moron like Cam Newton could run. At the Combine he said it was his job to move the sticks, and not make more than one read. "To get out of there (the pocket)" and pick up three yards if he could get three yards. Kid is such a huge project. The first round talk is completely shocking. NFL teams just wont learn.


You compare that interview to Ryan Mallett's interview where he breaks down a play to every single detail, talking about the option routes and understanding the defenses... it's not even close. Mallett moved ahead of Newton for me just based on these two interviews. He is so much smarter and so more knowledgeable about the NFL game and NFL schemes, it's not even funny. ESPN did Newton a favor by not putting him on the board. Instead they go throw a few passes.

[Scott Wright]

If the Panthers take Newton, both Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera are signing their own pink slips.

[SchizophrenicBatman]

I just came here to post that interview. As someone who was coming around to Cam, I believe he absolutely bombed that. It's especially disconcerting given that Clausen was exposed by Gruden last year, as well

FWIW, the only way I can justify Marty Hurney's continual employment is that he's so incompetent he somehow hasn't found his pink slip yet

[countryboi]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

If the Panthers take Newton, both Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera are signing their own pink slips.

I dont know, hurney is not one that dies easily

[FUNBUNCHER]

Gruden's QB Camp's are half hour segments. I'd advise you to watch the WHOLE thing before making a final assessment.

Cam told Gruden the truth, Malzahn's play calls were a number system relayed from the sideline. Hell, I'm gonna call this straight, I can't believe there were no full play calls Cam had to recite in the huddle, or that he couldn't recite one from memory in an interview. Again I would have to see the entire QB Camp.

Still, that doesn't label a QB 'stupid'. I would expect that at some point Gruden has Cam diagram one of Auburn's offensive plays on a white board.

This entire country has a friggin' GUN FETISH, and suddenly because Newton uses the analogy of taking ALL the criticism against as ammunition that he loads into his 'gun' and 'fires' when he works out or prepares to play in the NFL, that's somehow a degenerate statement??? Please.

I'm 100% on board with Gruden that Newton's biggest adjustment will be the verbiage in the NFL and where Cam will need to work the hardest; studying and mastering his playbook.
Do I think he can do it?? Of course. His wonderlic says he can, his big mouth says that he can. It will be the first test of his work ethic.

Convenient that your analysis BB left out Cam throwing with Gruden, who stated at least twice in that three and a half minute segment after Newton drilled the football to the WR, 'right between the numbers'. Because he missed a few passes high at the combine, some of you are stuck back in Indy.

The reason personally I'm high on Newton is I believe most of his critics are severely underestimating his work ethic, assuming he doesn't have one or very little desire to become a grind like all the great NFL QBs are.

IMO the opposite is true. That much success for a QB in one season doesn't happen in the SEC unless that player is busting his ass off the field.

A sound athletic 'work ethic' will eventually smooth out the rough spots in Cam's game, IMO. His physical skills and knack for playing the game will take care of the rest.

Come back tomorrow BB after you've seen the entire QB Camp with Gruden/Newton tonight, ( 7PM EST, ESPNU, rebroadcast at 12AM later that night).

Remember, Gruden has already called Newton the best QB/player in this draft. Must be something he likes about him.

[bitonti]

Cam Newton gives America a reason to care about the Panthers.

[Roddoliver]

That interview scared the hell out of me. I would not want that guy as the QB of my team.

[Flyboy]

Funny, everyone is ripping Cam Newton for the interview yet I was impressed and to me I can see exactly why the Panthers would take him #1 overall. Perception is such a funny thing.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

If the Panthers take Newton, both Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera are signing their own pink slips.

Famous last words.

That assumes Cam won't be even an above average, winning NFL QB. For both Hurney AND Rivera to be fired for drafting Cam Newton, he'd have to be a consummate failure of a draft pick.

You're supposed to be the wise man, Scott!!

Cam as a starting NFL QB= FAIL??

Agree to disagree.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Famous last words.

That assumes Cam won't be even an above average, winning NFL QB. For both Hurney AND Rivera to be fired for drafting Cam Newton, he'd have to be a consummate failure of a draft pick.

You're supposed to be the wise man, Scott!!

Cam as a starting NFL QB= FAIL??

Agree to disagree.

I disagree with that. As the #1 overall pick Cam Newton needs to be more than just a starting NFL QB. He literally needs to become a star. It's not enough for him to come in sell jerseys and tickets if he only becomes average. If the #1 overall pick in the draft is a QB, within a few years he had better be a top 10 QB in the NFL otherwise the pick is at best a poor one.

Realistically if Newton is taken #1 overall then the Panthers expect him to win them a Superbowl within 5 years. The very worst he can do to be judged a good pick is bring them back to respectability within two years and have them in the playoffs at worst in three years. Even if the Panthers do a horrible job at adding talent to the roster, this is still what will be expected from a QB drafted first.

For Hurney to keep his job he better pray that Newton becomes a star.

It's a double edged sword though. If he plays it safe and takes Dareus or Green or Peterson and Newton becomes a top QB, then regardless of what whoever they take do it will always pale in significance to Newton.

IMO Hurney has no choice but to take Newton. He has insane upside at the most important position. If he takes him he needs to succeed. If he doesn't take him he needs to fail hard

[FUNBUNCHER]

It's possible for Newton to become a playoff caliber QB who isn't considered a top 10 QB in the league, or even a pro bowler early in his career.

Is Eli Manning a top 10 QB??? Yet he's still IMO a 'franchise' quarterback.

I was only attempting to define how low a bar Cam has to be unable to cross before his HC and GM are fired.

If the Panthers become a perennial playoff contender with Newton as the signal caller, no matter how he gets it done, I think in hindsight he will be regarded as a great pick for Carolina.

True, a 1/1 is expected to be a top 5 - 10 QB eventually, but realistically if Newton can turn the Panthers into a threat again in the NFC South, that's the true barometer for measuring his success or failure.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I was only attempting to define how low a bar Cam has to be unable to cross before his HC and GM are fired.

i know, right? just ask jeff fisher and vince young. 5 years after he was drafted and after he spent some time 'just winning', fisher was *still* canned. that's how little of a failure cam newton has to be.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

It's possible for Newton to become a playoff caliber QB who isn't considered a top 10 QB in the league, or even a pro bowler early in his career.

Is Eli Manning a top 10 QB??? Yet he's still IMO a 'franchise' quarterback.

I was only attempting to define how low a bar Cam has to be unable to cross before his HC and GM are fired.

If the Panthers become a perennial playoff contender with Newton as the signal caller, no matter how he gets it done, I think in hindsight he will be regarded as a great pick for Carolina.

True, a 1/1 is expected to be a top 5 - 10 QB eventually, but realistically if Newton can turn the Panthers into a threat again in the NFC South, that's the true barometer for measuring his success or failure.

True, if he brings them to the playoffs on a regular basis. It wont be enough to just go into the postseason every other year. The top QBs in the league bring their team back to the playoffs almost every year.

Brady
Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Ryan
Flacco

These guys arent necessarily the 8 best QBs but those guys are in the playoffs year in year out. Hurney better hope that in 5 years Newton's name is in the same group because if not then he has failed. Its not enough to show flashes of brilliance. He needs to have consistent success at the next level for the pick to be deemed a good one

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Famous last words.

That assumes Cam won't be even an above average, winning NFL QB. For both Hurney AND Rivera to be fired for drafting Cam Newton, he'd have to be a consummate failure of a draft pick.

You're supposed to be the wise man, Scott!!

Cam as a starting NFL QB= FAIL??

Agree to disagree.

Are you bringing your commemorative Cam Newton pom-poms to the NFL draft this year?

BTW, my favorite color is Twelve!

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by njx9

i know, right? just ask jeff fisher and vince young. 5 years after he was drafted and after he spent some time 'just winning', fisher was *still* canned. that's how little of a failure cam newton has to be.

I was thinking more in terms of Michael Vick's first 5 years in the league. Not impressive statistically as a passer, yet he turned Atlanta into a playoff contender.

VY only started 47/80 games in Tennessee, so calling him a winner is almost a stretch.

[FTRWRTR]

I'm with FUNBUNCHER, I think people are underestimating newton's work ethic and taking a 30 min segment he did out of context. I also think he's being unfairly compared to vince young and jamarcus russell. Yes, newton is a big, athletic, mobile qb like those guys are but he's also a better passer than those guys.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FTRWRTR

I'm with FUNBUNCHER, I think people are underestimating newton's work ethic and taking a 30 min segment he did out of context. I also think he's being unfairly compared to vince young and jamarcus russell. Yes, newton is a big, athletic, mobile qb like those guys are but he's also a better passer than those guys.

Russell is a way better passer than Newton. He was a fat, lazy dick and that's what stopped him being successful. As a pure passer Russell blows Newton away by a wide margin

[njx9]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I was thinking more in terms of Michael Vick's first 5 years in the league. Not impressive statistically as a passer, yet he turned Atlanta into a playoff contender.

VY only started 47/80 games in Tennessee, so calling him a winner is almost a stretch.

none of those things are relevant. you suggested that newton would have to be a russell level failure to get his coach fired. that's demonstrably untrue.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by FTRWRTR

I'm with FUNBUNCHER, I think people are underestimating newton's work ethic and taking a 30 min segment he did out of context. I also think he's being unfairly compared to vince young and jamarcus russell. Yes, newton is a big, athletic, mobile qb like those guys are but he's also a better passer than those guys.

Anyone saying that he doesn't have the tools has their head in the sand.

Anyone saying he is remotely prepared for the NFL has their head in the sand. He needs a ton of work. Basically, an NFL QB needs to be a field general, ordering people around and doing a bunch of orchestrating. And then he needs to be a warrior after the snap.

Cam has half of that. The other half is a complete and utter question mark as he has never had to do that. He played in a prairie dog offense where Malzhan was the general.

Taking him high in the draft is a huge freaking gamble, especially for someone that has those character concerns. Physically, he's off the charts.

[GoRavens]

Cam Newton is getting the same hype as Vince Young. Honestly, the comparisons aren't that far off.
1) Both tremendous athletes for the QB position (who preferred to run it all the time in college)
2) Both 'iffy' when it comes to reading defenses and learning the playbook correctly.
3) Both are way more comfortable making easy reads out of shotgun.
4) Both have sloppy mechanics.
5) The words "touch,timing and anticipation are all merely average" have been said about both players.
- The list goes on and on, Cam Newton is just younger Vince Young; same NFL careers I imagine.