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Old 04-20-2011, 11:13 AM    (permalink
Babylon
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people are under-rating Newton's upside. everyone is focused on the downside.

the upside is he wins Rookie of the year and gets the Panthers to .500

when Harbaugh said Newton had once in a decade upside he wasn't just talking crap. It's true. the dude has a ton of physical upside and the draft is often about upside.
Actually everyone focusing on Newton's baggage has probably pushed him up the draft boards. People are choosing to forget the kid has only played in 13 games, comes from a one read system and hasnt showed the best accuracy as of late. The whole he hate me thing is playing right into the Newton's hands.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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people are under-rating Newton's upside. everyone is focused on the downside.

the upside is he wins Rookie of the year and gets the Panthers to .500

when Harbaugh said Newton had once in a decade upside he wasn't just talking crap. It's true. the dude has a ton of physical upside and the draft is often about upside.
If he were going later than top 10 (you are suggesting he is going 1 overall) then I would focus more on his upside. I don't think he will win ROTY on the Panthers but you are right .500 is probably the best he could get them to his rookie year. I don't think they reach that though. They have too many needs and a raw quarterback isn't going to come in and get them 8 wins by himself. Cam needs to sit for a year with a team that doesn't have as many holes. He won't get that opportunity if he is drafted to the Panthers.

The draft is about "upside" but top ten picks are expected to produce right away.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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If he were going later than top 10 (you are suggesting he is going 1 overall) then I would focus more on his upside. I don't think he will win ROTY on the Panthers but you are right .500 is probably the best he could get them to his rookie year. I don't think they reach that though. They have too many needs and a raw quarterback isn't going to come in and get them 8 wins by himself. Cam needs to sit for a year with a team that doesn't have as many holes. He won't get that opportunity if he is drafted to the Panthers.

The draft is about "upside" but top ten picks are expected to produce right away.
Realistically, QB's need a minimum of 3 years to reach their potential and anything you get from them in years 1 and 2 is just a bonus, usually based on how much talent you have around them.
Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez and Bradford all came into situations which helped them flourish as a rookie, but it is really the 3 rd season when they could take a franchise on their backs.
The Panthers could do well with a rookie QB, they have a solid OL and a great RB, however their defense is suspect.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I am seeing quarterbacks getting less and less time to prove themselves as time goes on. I am hearing that the Broncos are ready to go in a different direction after Tebow played 3 games, which he showed glimpses of being good, yes he is raw but where is the 3 years there? There are other quarterbacks that didn't get 3 years but did show flashes of potential in their first year.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I am seeing quarterbacks getting less and less time to prove themselves as time goes on. I am hearing that the Broncos are ready to go in a different direction after Tebow played 3 games, which he showed glimpses of being good, yes he is raw but where is the 3 years there? There are other quarterbacks that didn't get 3 years but did show flashes of potential in their first year.
That's a different situation tho' because the guys running the show in denver weren't the ones who drafted him. Also I'd be surprised if denver actually does draft a qb.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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people are under-rating Newton's upside. everyone is focused on the downside.

the upside is he wins Rookie of the year and gets the Panthers to .500
I think Jimmy Clausen could lead them to a .500 record and I'm not high on clausen. The only reason to take newton is if they're convinced he can be a franchise qb and one day lead them to a Super Bowl victory.

Personally when I watched newton's episode I saw things that I liked. However what was really important to me was when he was diagramming and discussing his favorite play to gruden. This guy is supposed to be your team leader and a general on the field. However he seemed inarticulate and unable to properly communicate the play. Listen to the other top qb prospects discuss a play and listen to Cam. Now I love his athleticsm and personality and I wish for the best for him but if I were carolina I wouldn't draft him. I'd do like someone else suggested, draft aj green, give clausen another year to prove himself and if he doesn't, do everything I could to get luck next year.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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I think Jimmy Clausen could lead them to a .500 record and I'm not high on clausen. The only reason to take newton is if they're convinced he can be a franchise qb and one day lead them to a Super Bowl victory.

Personally when I watched newton's episode I saw things that I liked. However what was really important to me was when he was diagramming and discussing his favorite play to gruden. This guy is supposed to be your team leader and a general on the field. However he seemed inarticulate and unable to properly communicate the play. Listen to the other top qb prospects discuss a play and listen to Cam. Now I love his athleticsm and personality and I wish for the best for him but if I were carolina I wouldn't draft him. I'd do like someone else suggested, draft aj green, give clausen another year to prove himself and if he doesn't, do everything I could to get luck next year.
Without that #33 pick i'd be all for trading down if there were any takers. Carolina isnt close to sniffing .500 as far as i'm concerned.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Without that #33 pick i'd be all for trading down if there were any takers. Carolina isnt close to sniffing .500 as far as i'm concerned.
In an ideal world they would trade down from #1 to anywhere between #3 and #7 and add a second rounder at the least. However I don't think that any team will fall that much in love with any prospect to warrant such a move.

If the Panthers take Newton it will be the case of still having a poor defensive line, solid LBs and an ok secondary on defense. On offense they would still have a relatively solid offensive line, a young talented RB with injury concerns and no one to throw to unless Steve Smith gets his head out of his ass.

Im not sure this year how much better Newton makes the Panthers, especially since they cant upgrade anywhere else until the third round.

Marcel Dareus and AJ Green make way more sense to me in this situation than Newton but I dont think they have a choice.

Dareus or Green will make the Panthers a better team this year. They get an instant starter who elevates the talent of those around them.

At best Newton is a two year project.

The safe option would be to take Dareus or Green and get a ten year starter with your first pick of the new regime. However sometimes to be successful teams can't afford to always make the safe pick and have to take the risk and bite the bullet. That's why I think they have to take Newton.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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I can't see Newton beating out Clausen next season. Jimmy was rated as highly a year ago as Newton is now. Plus he came out of a pro style offense and has had a year to learn the pro game. Clausen would have to be worse this year than he was a year ago to lose the competition.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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Newton is going to have to learn what an NFL play looks like before he worries about digesting a playbook. If he has the intelligence and attention span to do so.
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:05 AM    (permalink
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I can't see Newton beating out Clausen next season. Jimmy was rated as highly a year ago as Newton is now. Plus he came out of a pro style offense and has had a year to learn the pro game. Clausen would have to be worse this year than he was a year ago to lose the competition.
They brought in Brian St Pierre off the street and started him over Clausen, I really don't think he has much of a future with the team...still don't know why there is no talk of Gabbert.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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No doubt that Cam Newton has great upside, BUT the risk and red flags that accompany this guy are far too worrisome for any team to consider taking him in the top 10. Far too much investment involved.

He probably still will be taken in the top 10, but man, that's just mind-blowingly desperate and ridiculous.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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I think Jimmy Clausen could lead them to a .500 record and I'm not high on clausen.
people are still overrating Clausen. He's awful and not just on the field. Off the field his teammates hate him. He doesn't have the respect of that team and in the NFL that's a death sentence. the defense is not going to hustle to get the ball back to a dude they not only don't believe in to score points... but outright hate.

the internetz and the media might dislike Cam Newton and he might be a terrible role model for our kids but in an NFL locker room they will run through a wall for him. that ability to fire people up and have the team believe it can win is something you won't see on the scouting reports... but it is very real. when they look across the huddle or across the team bus they will see a winner, a star who can get it done on the big stage. When they look at Clausen you don't want to know what they see. It's unprintable.

the difference in talent between the worst NFL team and the best NFL team is not that great. It's not like the difference between the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees. In the NFL it's often about momentum and confidence. Newton gives the Panthers both of those things.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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people are still overrating Clausen. He's awful and not just on the field. Off the field his teammates hate him. He doesn't have the respect of that team and in the NFL that's a death sentence. the defense is not going to hustle to get the ball back to a dude they not only don't believe in to score points... but outright hate.

the internetz and the media might dislike Cam Newton and he might be a terrible role model for our kids but in an NFL locker room they will run through a wall for him. that ability to fire people up and have the team believe it can win is something you won't see on the scouting reports... but it is very real. when they look across the huddle or across the team bus they will see a winner, a star who can get it done on the big stage. When they look at Clausen you don't want to know what they see. It's unprintable.

the difference in talent between the worst NFL team and the best NFL team is not that great. It's not like the difference between the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees. In the NFL it's often about momentum and confidence. Newton gives the Panthers both of those things.
DOn't speculate that Clausen's Carolina teammates hate him. Hate him for what?? He's not the reason they suck. Rarely have I ever heard about a rookie drafted in the 2nd round being 'hated'.

Players IMO may find a teammate annoying or resent him because of his paycheck, but they usually don't hate him.

Even after Albert Haynesworth quit on the SKins because he didn't want to play NT, he was still popular with a core group of those guys, they just didn't like his approach to the game.

Clausen has the physical ability, I think you give him another look.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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DOn't speculate that Clausen's Carolina teammates hate him. Hate him for what?? He's not the reason they suck. Rarely have I ever heard about a rookie drafted in the 2nd round being 'hated'.
from all accounts, Clausen is a jerk. That's ok if you can back it up with play. Farve, Cutler and others are jerks too but he can ball. Clausen can't ball and that's the biggest problem.

in this league the qb is everything and if you don't have a QB you have nothing. the panthers can't just take Dareus and wait for Luck, they need a QB now.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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from all accounts, Clausen is a jerk. That's ok if you can back it up with play. Farve, Cutler and others are jerks too but he can ball. Clausen can't ball and that's the biggest problem.

in this league the qb is everything and if you don't have a QB you have nothing. the panthers can't just take Dareus and wait for Luck, they need a QB now.

I don't think those guys hate Clausen as much as football fans imagine they do.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...eplace-clausenhttp://www.foxcharlotte.com/news/top...112552689.html
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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people are still overrating Clausen. He's awful and not just on the field. Off the field his teammates hate him. He doesn't have the respect of that team and in the NFL that's a death sentence. the defense is not going to hustle to get the ball back to a dude they not only don't believe in to score points... but outright hate.

the internetz and the media might dislike Cam Newton and he might be a terrible role model for our kids but in an NFL locker room they will run through a wall for him. that ability to fire people up and have the team believe it can win is something you won't see on the scouting reports... but it is very real. when they look across the huddle or across the team bus they will see a winner, a star who can get it done on the big stage. When they look at Clausen you don't want to know what they see. It's unprintable.

the difference in talent between the worst NFL team and the best NFL team is not that great. It's not like the difference between the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees. In the NFL it's often about momentum and confidence. Newton gives the Panthers both of those things.
It seems that you are pretty unapologetic Newton fanboy. You have no problem criticizing and speculating about Clausen yet automatically assume that Newton will automatically win over the locker room with no questions asked. Not everyone will buy into his shtick. His performance on the Gruden QB Camp show was pretty uncomfortable and embarrassing at times.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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They brought in Brian St Pierre off the street and started him over Clausen, I really don't think he has much of a future with the team...still don't know why there is no talk of Gabbert.
clausen was hurt that week. every week clausen was healthy he started after he got the starting job
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stephenson86 View Post
still don't know why there is no talk of Gabbert.
From what I've read even most of his supporters think of him as the "safe" pick. Which is ok if we were talking about the the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. However for the #1 overall pick if you're set on drafting a qb you need to take a guy you think can be a franchise qb.

Also I think Gabbert really hurt himself in some people's eyes by not throwing at the combine. I remember reading one NFL scout saying, "it's like he's trying to hide something."
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FTRWRTR View Post
From what I've read even most of his supporters think of him as the "safe" pick. Which is ok if we were talking about the the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. However for the #1 overall pick if you're set on drafting a qb you need to take a guy you think can be a franchise qb.

Also I think Gabbert really hurt himself in some people's eyes by not throwing at the combine. I remember reading one NFL scout saying, "it's like he's trying to hide something."
I think that the decision to not throw at the combine is a missed opportunity to help yourself rather than something that hurts a prospect. Gabbert, and all the quarterbacks, have gone through a pro day as well as individual workouts. There is plenty of data on the board to work with for any interested team.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I think that the decision to not throw at the combine is a missed opportunity to help yourself rather than something that hurts a prospect. Gabbert, and all the quarterbacks, have gone through a pro day as well as individual workouts. There is plenty of data on the board to work with for any interested team.
Some GMs and coaches find pro days useless. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-for-pro-days/ just a case and point.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FTRWRTR View Post
From what I've read even most of his supporters think of him as the "safe" pick. Which is ok if we were talking about the the #1 pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. However for the #1 overall pick if you're set on drafting a qb you need to take a guy you think can be a franchise qb.

Also I think Gabbert really hurt himself in some people's eyes by not throwing at the combine. I remember reading one NFL scout saying, "it's like he's trying to hide something."
Twice as many scouts polled by the Milwaukee State Journal thought Gabbert was the best quarterback in the draft. As for not throwing, no top CAA client has done that in recent years, and they have had half a dozen QBs go first overall in the draft.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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, no top CAA client has done that in recent years, and they have had half a dozen QBs go first overall in the draft.
Big difference is those qbs were considered the #1 qb even before the combine and a great performance wouldn't have helped. Gabbert is in a totally different situation and a great day throwing could've boosted his stock.
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