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Old 03-29-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
Rashaan Salaam
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Originally Posted by Andersonspits View Post
Im sure the point is, its hard to take a persons opinion about something, if he hasnt actually done what he is evaluating. In this case its football. How can someone that has never played the game, never had the pressure of a national championship game, say this guy has all the problems he claims. Cam has had no trouble since florida (and that was immature type stuff), has been a leader for his team, on and off the field, gained the respect of the heisman trust to win the trophy yet, cant get backed by a guy who never played the game. I'll keep laughing to myself while you figure that one out. I cant respect
Get Outta my Brain!! LOL!

Great Post!
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Jake Locker is my guy. If I had to draft a qb in this draft, I'm drafting Locker.

I hate Mallet's footwork and off the field issues, I hate Newton's off the field issues and dedication to the game, I hate Gabbert's everything besides his arm.

Locker's flaws are very correctable and I feel like if he sits and studies behind a great offensive coaching staff, he can be special.
What have you seen Newton do or not do to show that he has a lack of dedication for the game?

Please elaborate
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I do think the off-the-field issues for Newton are overblown - I don't think he's going to get drafted and cause a bunch of trouble off the field, cheat, lie, steal, or be a bad teammate in the locker room. I'm not even sure I buy the whole "lacks focus" argument, because I'm sure the guy wants to at least try and be an elite NFL QB.

All that being said, he's still one of the surest busts I've ever seen in the NFL draft. The upside is athleticism and eventual potential, but he'll never reach it. He doesn't have the mind to be an NFL QB and I'm not sure he'll commit himself to ever rounding himself out as a player rather than just trying to get by on speed and athleticism. Anyone who truly believes Cam Newton will be a productive NFL player at this point is delusional, and I don't believe I'm exaggerating. He'll be fun to run around with in Madden, but when it comes being an actual NFL-brain (or starting QB), he's got all the red flags you can ask for and I said this in another thread, I'd love to see him go to the Bengals or Bills and have to face the Steelers/Ravens or Jets/Pats twice a year - does anyone actually see him picking apart those defenses?
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
What have you seen Newton do or not do to show that he has a lack of dedication for the game?

Please elaborate
I've seen nothing personally. I'm basing this off the fact that a lot of scouts/draft analysts are claiming that he lacks dedication. Supposedly his father has to constantly push him to stay motivated.

Again, not my words, but I've read this from guys in the industry who have much more direct contact with scouts and coaches than any of us ever will.

I will admit it's not the most precise way of forming an opinion, but let's be real, none of us are qualified enough to make an opinion that anyone in league circles would give a damn about.

He's just too risky for my personal preference based off what I hear.

From his game standpoint, I love his game, but I would like to see him do a better job reading defenses and take some off his fastball on deeper routes.

That comes down to dedication though, and Im not sure if he has it.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
“Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law"


He just described Joe Theismann and probably more than a few current 'stars' in the NFL, including QBs.

What pisses me off about this quote initially is, what prospect isn't scripted predraft and rehearsed about how he's going to answer potential questions during this process??

Criticizing a guy's smile is a little bitchy IMO.

All of that is going overboard no doubt, and when Newton busts I doubt any of us will look back and say we saw it in his smile - but we all understand what he's getting at here. While Newton has to smile and answer controversial questions a certain way, it's his personality and way he comes off that turns everyone off.

When Tim Tebow was asked last year about all of his mechanical flaws and uncertain pro-position, he said (indirect quote) "I'm going to report to whatever team drafts me and work as hard as I can to be the best player I can be". His on-the-field potential was his biggest question mark while his off-the-field behavior, demeanor and personality was his biggest upside. It got him drafted in the 1st round (although for all we know McDaniels was the only one really willing to spend that high of a pick on him).

Newton simply says "I'll be a global icon", before even getting drafted.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
Snowball Effect... The miss on the QB position snowballed to derail the entire squad. I also felt like they got rid of Mariucci too quick!
If picking Harrington was what derailed the team, then the moves over the course of the rest of Millen's tenure were him taking bazookas to the wreckage.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Newton's attitude sounds a lot like Lebron James only Bron Bron didn't have baggage( i think).
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Disclaimer: I am not a member of the media, I am not a football scout and I only started one of two years I played high school football for a .500 team but . . .

The ability to evaluate talent can be drawn from a number or sources including experience, intelligence and/or just having a knack to guess correctly. One thing that Cam Newton provides is a great example of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Is he an amazing athlete? No question! But does he have the ability to be a top-flight NFL quarterback? Jury is still out (as it usually is for every player leaving college for the NFL). All I can say for the PFW review is that some personal feelings fell into the evaluation BUT those feelings also find their way into team evaluations of players. If you feel as PFW does (that Cam is a "me first" jerk) then you will have to weigh what else he brings to the table and decide if that counter balances or overwhelms your concerns. For me there are too many red flags around him (as a person and a player) to use a top 15 draft pick.

I have to admit, If I were an owner trying to fill seats I'd be much more interested in him than if I were a coach or a scout. No question, the moment he starts for a team he will change the dynamic of the fan base for whatever city he ends up in. In that way he is similar to Tebow - his simple presence on the field draws fans and media to the game (positively and negatively). If I'm a franchise with a dwindling fan base he might be worth the risk.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I've seen nothing personally. I'm basing this off the fact that a lot of scouts/draft analysts are claiming that he lacks dedication. Supposedly his father has to constantly push him to stay motivated.

Again, not my words, but I've read this from guys in the industry who have much more direct contact with scouts and coaches than any of us ever will.

I will admit it's not the most precise way of forming an opinion, but let's be real, none of us are qualified enough to make an opinion that anyone in league circles would give a damn about.

He's just too risky for my personal preference based off what I hear.

From his game standpoint, I love his game, but I would like to see him do a better job reading defenses and take some off his fastball on deeper routes.

That comes down to dedication though, and Im not sure if he has it.
Trust what you see...

Just watch the tape
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Let's keep the discussion to Cam Newton, not our resumes and qualifications.
That's what the internet is for... a dick measuring contest. Also, why are great players such terrible coaches? Because they didn't understand part of the game.

Anyways, I tend to agree with what he said. He almost feels like he was coached to do what he is doing. I see him smile and it looks forced. Maybe it isn't, but I just get the impression something is wrong.


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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Criticizing a guy's smile is a little bitchy IMO.
When you are going to invest 50 million into someone, you tend to nitpick.

Also, It's not just his smile. His entire demeanor doesn't look like someone who pushes a team. He just reminds me of the kid who sits in the back of the room and cracks jokes in high school. The same guy that ended up drunk under a bar stool in college and dropped out after a year.

Maybe that's just me though...
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I guess these things don't matter to me... college players should be getting paid. It's kind of a farce that the University of Auburn expects Newton to play for his education, meanwhile they make millions and millions off the dude.

but taking money... or pretending not to know about it... this isn't like a felony. these are misdemeanors. it's not like that dude from TCU who had sex with his sister or whatever sick crap he was arrested for.

if we want to critique his football skills fair enough but the "fake smile" stuff is just haterade. ya know who else has a fake smile and loves to be the center of attention, Shaquille Oneal. Who cares as long as he can ball.
Newton isnt on scholarship at Auburn?
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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has a fake smile
Think about this statement for a second...
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
Trust what you see...

Just watch the tape
I agree with this for the most part.

The problem is, with quarterbacks, its not that simple. You can't just go off of game tape.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
That's what the internet is for... a dick measuring contest. Also, why are great players such terrible coaches? Because they didn't understand part of the game.

Anyways, I tend to agree with what he said. He almost feels like he was coached to do what he is doing. I see him smile and it looks forced. Maybe it isn't, but I just get the impression something is wrong.




When you are going to invest 50 million into someone, you tend to nitpick.

Also, It's not just his smile. His entire demeanor doesn't look like someone who pushes a team. He just reminds me of the kid who sits in the back of the room and cracks jokes in high school. The same guy that ended up drunk under a bar stool in college and dropped out after a year.

Maybe that's just me though...
What do you see or what does he remind you of when you actually see him PLAY?
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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What do you see or what does he remind you of when you actually see him PLAY?
I know this wasn't directed at me but when I watch him play, I see an athletic freak with the football in his hand making plays at the disposal of people much less talented than he is. Nothing I see from Cam Newton at Auburn helps me think he's going to be a successful quarterback in the NFL. An elite athlete yes, but not an NFL QB. It's really as simple as that.

JaMarcus Russell was a giant blob with a cannon arm but no ability to play quarterback at the pro level. Cam Newton is an elite athlete with a strong arm but has a similar lack of ability to play the position professionally and remain competitive. In a quarterback, those intangibles are the framework for any sort of success at the pro level, those other characteristics just determine exactly what kind of QB you are.

The off the field and personality stuff are what support the argument that he doesn't have what it takes to learn the position in the NFL. It's come to the forefront and basically become the biggest perceived question-mark about him, but it's still just a minor piece in the big picture of him simply not mentally being able to handle the development.

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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it should also be noted that Nolan Nawrocki's profile is hugely long and says many good things about Newton.

that fake smile paragraph kinda got cherry picked.

they released the whole thing today

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...couting-report


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Old 03-29-2011, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Waiting for my Draft Preview in the mail any day as we speak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62
ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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I think Newt gets dinged for the smile because it is so over the top. Probably all of them have to fake interest and warmth after getting asked the same questions 20 or 30 times a day, but Newton gives us the Hee Haw donkey treatment. I agree with what Nawrocki said, and I said the same myself on one of the QB threads awhile back. Maybe the problem is just that Newton's deception is pretty shallow and unconvincing compared to others. Gabbert does the same, but in a more subtle and respectful manner.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I am the media...and also a former player..UL-Lafayette
Really??? I live in Lafayette right now. Go Cajuns!
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:23 PM    (permalink
I_C_DeadPeople
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

Ugg..I can see it now, with the 4th pick in the draft Mike Brown with a woody overrides the entire Bengal war room and selects Cam Newton.

Perfect selection in Brown's mind and it would about the worst place for Newton to land.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:13 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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Ugg..I can see it now, with the 4th pick in the draft Mike Brown with a woody overrides the entire Bengal war room and selects Cam Newton.

Perfect selection in Brown's mind and it would about the worst place for Newton to land.
I think you are 100% correct with this prediction.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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I guess these things don't matter to me... college players should be getting paid. It's kind of a farce that the University of Auburn expects Newton to play for his education, meanwhile they make millions and millions off the dude.
The college university and collegiate athlete relationship is mutually beneficial. Not only does the player get a free education, but the collegiate system provides the avenue for the NFL. Colleges provide the coaches, facilities, and exposure from playing that allows these athletes to prepare themselves and go on to the NFL. In essence, playing for these colleges acts as an interview for the NFL (as cliche as that's become for the pre-draft process), and it's because Newton played in college that he's about to cash in with a multi-million dollar pro contract.

Also, Auburn didn't make millions and millions off of him. They made it off the team and the fanbase, so Auburn is gonna pull in that money regardless if Newton is there or not, which is probably far less than the "millions and millions" number you pulled - most college athletic programs don't even turn a profit, and a lot of the football money goes back into the school to support it and the resources that these players utilize.
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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From Pro Football Weekly's Eric Edholm on Twitter (http://twitter.com/Eric_Edholm):





As I've said, Nolan Nawrocki knows what he's doing and has an impeccable reputation. If Nolan is saying this stuff about Newton it's because he has excellent sources who are telling him.
About half the people here were saying the same thing about Russell... I need a much better example than that.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:50 PM    (permalink
WMD
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Snowball Effect... The miss on the QB position snowballed to derail the entire squad. I also felt like they got rid of Mariucci too quick!
You do realize that we only have like 10 players left that were drafted by Matt Millen from the years 2001-2008? And not a single player from 2002-2006? And very few of those players are even still in the league?

On another note, does anyone know when PFW's Draft Preview comes out?
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
Reggie Bush will be a better Marshall Faulk....wait; I knew all along that he was going to be a role player at best!

Cant be serious.
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