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Old 03-29-2011, 05:54 PM    (permalink
papageorgio
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
The college university and collegiate athlete relationship is mutually beneficial. Not only does the player get a free education, but the collegiate system provides the avenue for the NFL. Colleges provide the coaches, facilities, and exposure from playing that allows these athletes to prepare themselves and go on to the NFL. In essence, playing for these colleges acts as an interview for the NFL (as cliche as that's become for the pre-draft process), and it's because Newton played in college that he's about to cash in with a multi-million dollar pro contract.

Also, Auburn didn't make millions and millions off of him. They made it off the team and the fanbase, so Auburn is gonna pull in that money regardless if Newton is there or not, which is probably far less than the "millions and millions" number you pulled - most college athletic programs don't even turn a profit, and a lot of the football money goes back into the school to support it and the resources that these players utilize.
your kidding yourself if you think these guys are going to college to become "student athletes" the pay scandal is meaningless and frankly if I had a child who was a 5 star recruit I would want compensation as well.

I cant believe people are questioning his character over issues with buying the stolen laptop and cheating on a couple of tests. There making it out to be as if Newton is just a dumb illiterate jock.

Sanchez had way worse character issues in the fact that he sexually assaulted a woman in college and I don't remember anyone making him an example of terrible character.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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The way I see it (not personal opinion), athletes are A-OK to get their daddy on illegally with women.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness
How anyone can honestly say this while keeping a straight face is mind boggling. This blatantly goes against absolutely everything that was shown this year at Auburn. Thats like saying "Usain Bolt is slow" right after he smashed the 100 M record.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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How anyone can honestly say this while keeping a straight face is mind boggling. This blatantly goes against absolutely everything that was shown this year at Auburn. Thats like saying "Usain Bolt is slow" right after he smashed the 100 M record.
Not gonna lie but his teammates did seem to love him.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Maybe it's the side of me that doesnt trust politicians but i think all this is so much of a diversion. The biggest issue i have with Newton isnt his smile it's the very short resume, the read option offense he comes from and his accuracy. To insinuate by some that the only thing keeping him out of Canton is off the field stuff i find rather intereseting to say the least.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Not gonna lie but his teammates did seem to love him.
A team of 18-22 year old kids doesn't go through a month+ long witch-hunt and still keep flawless composure through tight game after tight game if they dont truly feel confident in the star player that is being targeted. Newton's season ended after he was RAISED by teammates after the title game, a game in which he really didn't even play all too well.

Undefeated season through constant distraction and full of come from behind victories, and you're going to try to tell me that teammates dont respect and/or like him, or that he doesn't have control of a locker room? Bullshiet.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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How anyone can honestly say this while keeping a straight face is mind boggling. This blatantly goes against absolutely everything that was shown this year at Auburn. Thats like saying "Usain Bolt is slow" right after he smashed the 100 M record.
"Winning an NFL Locker room" and "Winning a college locker room" are entirely different phenomena. The BMOC wins the locker room in college pretty much by default. In the NFL, any quarterback is going to come into a locker room full of people who are significantly more accomplished, richer, and older than you. Winning their respect is challenging.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Be sure to tune in to the podcast tonight.

Special guest co-host Chris Steuber and I will be talking about Cam Newton at length.

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Old 03-29-2011, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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"Winning an NFL Locker room" and "Winning a college locker room" are entirely different phenomena. The BMOC wins the locker room in college pretty much by default. In the NFL, any quarterback is going to come into a locker room full of people who are significantly more accomplished, richer, and older than you. Winning their respect is challenging.
I disagree completely.

The NFL is a job. Those guys view it as a job and dont give two ***** whether or not Newton cheated on a test or did or didn't get paid...hence why a freaking rapist like Roethlisberger can go sexually assault someone and then lead the Steelers the very next week to a championship. NFL players want teammates who work hard and want to win...at what point has Newton shown anything other than those traits? He's never sulked, never "given up", and has proven that he will play through all sorts of adversity.

In college you are dealing with KIDS who aren't (or shouldn't be) getting paid; there is much less reason for them to respect someone that they dont "like". There is even more reason for them to feel jealous about someone like Newton who was the face of that team. There is even more reason for them to feel pissed off if they honestly thought he received hundreds of thousands of dollars while they aren't getting paid ****.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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A team of 18-22 year old kids doesn't go through a month+ long witch-hunt and still keep flawless composure through tight game after tight game if they dont truly feel confident in the star player that is being targeted. Newton's season ended after he was RAISED by teammates after the title game, a game in which he really didn't even play all too well.

Undefeated season through constant distraction and full of come from behind victories, and you're going to try to tell me that teammates dont respect and/or like him, or that he doesn't have control of a locker room? Bullshiet.
Sorry what...I was defending the fact his teammates seemed to like him...
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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your kidding yourself if you think these guys are going to college to become "student athletes"
Whether these players go to college with the intention of being a student athlete is completely irrelevant. A free college education has immense value when you factor in not only it's monetary value but it's value if you factor in the longterm effects of a good secondary education. If they decide not to take advantage, that's their choice. It's still being awarded to them.

But even that isn't the big reward for going through the college system. The reward is the NFL. If you're the quality of athlete that schools should pay for your services, then undoubtedly the NFL is your goal. Try getting drafted early without playing through college. It's not going to happen. Consider it a massive internship for a massive reward.

This is absolutely a mutually beneficial situation. Why should Newton be provided more than free tuition, board, food, likely a cushy job, coaching, and use of facilities for playing in college when playing in college is what allowed him to put himself in the position to sign a milti-million dollar pro contract?

As far as farces go, the argument that paying players should be ok since players have a right to be rewarded isn't why athletes are paid in the first place. These aren't compensation - they're bribes. I want you to go to my school instead of that one, so I'll give you this not for your future work here putting your body, time, and energy into playing for our team, but solely so you'll choose our team. The question isn't "Should athletes be paid for playing?" The question is "Should athletes be bribed when choosing schools?"
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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"Winning an NFL Locker room" and "Winning a college locker room" are entirely different phenomena. The BMOC wins the locker room in college pretty much by default. In the NFL, any quarterback is going to come into a locker room full of people who are significantly more accomplished, richer, and older than you. Winning their respect is challenging.
There were anonymous teammates that said Jimmy Clausen was bad team and a Diva back in ND. I have not read anything like that about Cam Newton.

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About half the people here were saying the same thing about Russell... I need a much better example than that.
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Cam Newton got caught cheating three times in college and I've got some swampland for sale to anyone who believes he had no idea Cecil was soliciting a couple hundred grand in his name.
Tons of football players/students have cheated on test some have been caught and others have not. He is not the 1st or the last one to cheat on the test. The only reason we don't find out about most is because academic records are private.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I guess these things don't matter to me... college players should be getting paid. It's kind of a farce that the University of Auburn expects Newton to play for his education, meanwhile they make millions and millions off the dude.

but taking money... or pretending not to know about it... this isn't like a felony. these are misdemeanors. it's not like that dude from TCU who had sex with his sister or whatever sick crap he was arrested for.

if we want to critique his football skills fair enough but the "fake smile" stuff is just haterade. ya know who else has a fake smile and loves to be the center of attention, Shaquille Oneal. Who cares as long as he can ball.
This. There are some guys who come off as absolutely disingenuous and self centered and it's just their personality. Warren Sapp is another. Kobe was also like that. Sometimes they are but does that mean they can't be successful?-course not. But if he busts everyone will point to this and say, warning sign. It's been said before and it's kind of a ******** critique, it all depends on how hard he works, not whether you think his personality is fake. IMO he comes across as country, trying to be sophisticated, after his monster year thrust him into the limelight, nothing more.

These comments...Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable...are much more relevant than ego and entitlement. This critique is as the heart of whether he'll put in the work and be ready when it's his turn.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that we only have like 10 players left that were drafted by Matt Millen from the years 2001-2008? And not a single player from 2002-2006? And very few of those players are even still in the league?

On another note, does anyone know when PFW's Draft Preview comes out?
It's out for purchase now, but if you order online or by phone it will not get shipped until early next week is what they told me. I ordered mine yesterday by phone the total was $23.50. I pray it is worth it because that is the most I ever spent on a guide.
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The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62
ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Reggie Bush will be a better Marshall Faulk....wait; I knew all along that he was going to be a role player at best!

Cant be serious.
I remember when I was preaching this with a passion. So funny as I look back on it now...how wrong I was.

Same way I've been passionately supporting Newton over Locker. One thing that makes me think Locker could end up being the better QB in 5 years is if he goes to a team that has a good supporting cast that will let him sit and develop...and Newton goes to a bum team that rushes him.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Steuber and I had a 15 minute debate on Newton in tonight's podcast.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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I remember when I was preaching this with a passion. So funny as I look back on it now...how wrong I was.

Same way I've been passionately supporting Newton over Locker. One thing that makes me think Locker could end up being the better QB in 5 years is if he goes to a team that has a good supporting cast that will let him sit and develop...and Newton goes to a bum team that rushes him.
I still think the 49ers NEW staff would be a big spot for Locker if our big 4 players are not there and try to trade down and grab him.Or just go ahead and draft him at number 7!!Tho I think I am the only 9er fan that would love for this to happen.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Not sure what the reason was, but the impression of Newton being all about Cam and not relating well to teammates was certainly reinforced by his pre draft workout regime. Most of the top prospects trained in group settings at large facilities, pushing each other, helping each other, hanging out and forming bonds. Newton was cloistered off in little theological college with his band of advisors and half witted QB "guru" Whitfield Jr. Now You Tube, Twitter, and Facebook are filled with images of Gabbert working hard and having fun with numerous of his peers. It doesn't take much to see the obvious warmth and chemistry he enjoys with players like J.J. Watt, Chris Ponder, A.J. Green, Aaron Williams, Prince Amukamura etc. I'm pretty sure that NFL execs are watching that and seeing Gabbert do the same with future teammates.

Not to say that Newton couldn't do the same, but HE DIDN'T. There is no visual evidence of him enjoying that cameraderie with his mates. Even at his pro day, he was sitting off by himself, ostentatiously pimping his Under Armour gear for the benefit of the cameras. Then he gets some positive feedback from Mike Mayock and ends it by calling him "Mr. McShay". I would be shocked if any team took him ahead of Gabbert at this point.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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"Winning an NFL Locker room" and "Winning a college locker room" are entirely different phenomena. The BMOC wins the locker room in college pretty much by default. In the NFL, any quarterback is going to come into a locker room full of people who are significantly more accomplished, richer, and older than you. Winning their respect is challenging.
No it's not.

Sean Taylor had the respect of the Redskins lockerroom after his first week of training camp when it was revealed that ST had only one speed in practice, 100 mph, and played in 7 on 7 drills like it was the NFCC.


Lavar Arrington tried to clown ST during an interview after ST's first training camp by smashing a shaving cream pie in his face while he was being interviewed by a local reporter, and that incident almost divided the lockerroom.

Play on the field ALONE is what earns a player respect in team sports on every level.

If the offense on Cam's NFL team looks dynamically different when he's under center, he by default will earn the respect of his teammates. Winning will only compound this.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Steuber and I had a 15 minute debate on Newton in tonight's podcast.
I heard. I tend to side with you on the debate.
QB's are held to higher standards. I'd want my QB with integrity.
I think you're on a more extreme position with him than I am but
overall still the same the thought process though

CK a 4/5 rounder? Really?

Why don't you think Kerrigan could play standing up in an odd front?
Especially if he'll be a primary rusher.


Nice overall show
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Not sure what the reason was, but the impression of Newton being all about Cam and not relating well to teammates was certainly reinforced by his pre draft workout regime. Most of the top prospects trained in group settings at large facilities, pushing each other, helping each other, hanging out and forming bonds. Newton was cloistered off in little theological college with his band of advisors and half witted QB "guru" Whitfield Jr. Now You Tube, Twitter, and Facebook are filled with images of Gabbert working hard and having fun with numerous of his peers. It doesn't take much to see the obvious warmth and chemistry he enjoys with players like J.J. Watt, Chris Ponder, A.J. Green, Aaron Williams, Prince Amukamura etc. I'm pretty sure that NFL execs are watching that and seeing Gabbert do the same with future teammates.

Not to say that Newton couldn't do the same, but HE DIDN'T. There is no visual evidence of him enjoying that cameraderie with his mates. Even at his pro day, he was sitting off by himself, ostentatiously pimping his Under Armour gear for the benefit of the cameras. Then he gets some positive feedback from Mike Mayock and ends it by calling him "Mr. McShay". I would be shocked if any team took him ahead of Gabbert at this point.
The more you hype Gabbert's most insignificant intangibles, the more the image of Joey Harrington flashes in my head.

My gut tells me that Gabbert is several notches better as a prospect than Harrington, but dang if you don't emphasize some of those most negligible aspects of Gabbert as a pro prospect, namely how much of a 'buddy' he is during the predraft process.

I promise you more than a few Cowboys thought Aikman was a prick on some of those SB teams because of his tendency for calling out players in practice and in games for screwing up assignments.

But they still respected him and played to their max ability when he was under center.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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No it's not.

Play on the field ALONE is what earns a player respect in team sports on every level.
Not even close to true. Some of the best players on teams I have played on have been among the least liked. If talent were all that mattered, Ryan Leaf would still be the toast of San Diego.

To be clear, I dont think leadership will be an issue with Newton. Honestly, I can just about guarantee you that most NFL athletes would prefer to have a laid-back guy like Newton at the helm than a schticky, over-animated goof like Tebow.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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What do you see or what does he remind you of when you actually see him PLAY?
The same thing Aliki Smith showed.

edit: The NFL isn't just a league where you go out there and fling the ball around. It takes so much more than just talent. Everyone in the NFL has talent. So does JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf. And Brady Quinn. And Matt Leinart.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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The more you hype Gabbert's most insignificant intangibles, the more the image of Joey Harrington flashes in my head.
It isn't an "insignificant intangible". The quarterback, particularly a top draft pick, is automatically "the face of the franchise". Gabbert is miles ahead of any QB prospect I can remember coming into the league in that regard. Some are naturals, like Favre was, but a lot of them are bland to morose dopes like Cutler, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Russell, Young, etc. Gabbert, I would say is the best since Favre, although I don't remember him when he first came into the league. But it seems he was always fairly charismatic.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Not even close to true. Some of the best players on teams I have played on have been among the least liked. If talent were all that mattered, Ryan Leaf would still be the toast of San Diego.

To be clear, I dont think leadership will be an issue with Newton. Honestly, I can just about guarantee you that most NFL athletes would prefer to have a laid-back guy like Newton at the helm than a schticky, over-animated goof like Tebow.
Being liked and being respected aren't the same thing.

It's about performance. I've played with total assholes who were all-state, and I'll be damned if that player wasn't the last person I'd ever invite to a party, but be the first guy I'd want to be on the field with me in a playoff game.

There's a difference, that's all.
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