Casserly on the Top OTs

[JohnCandy]

# Charley Casserly: Offensive tackle is a strength of this year's draft. Not in terms of talent, but five could go in the first round.

# Charley Casserly: Tyron Smith vs. Russell Okung. I'm going with Okung - stronger, more physical, can anchor the bull rush better, more prepared mentally. Smith has better feet and he's more athletic.

# Charley Casserly: Nate Solder vs. Trent Williams. Trent Williams clearly has better feet as an athlete. Clearly stronger than Solder.

# Charley Casserly: Anthony Castonzo vs. Anthony Davis. Davis over Castonzo in a close one. He's smoother and has better knee bend. He's stronger and can anchor better.

# Charley Casserly: Gabe Carimi vs. Rodger Saffold. I like Rodger Saffold a year ago. This one's not close. Saffold can play left tackle. Carimi's only a right side player. Saffold has better feet.

# Charley Casserly: Derek Sherrod vs. Bryan Bulaga. I wasn't high on Bryan Bulaga, but I'm going with him. Bulaga plays lower with better knee bend. Sherrod plays too high.

# Charley Casserly's top 10 tackles last 2 years: Russell Okung, Tyron Smith, Trent Williams Anthony Davis, Rodger Saffold, Nate Solder, Anthony Castonzo, Bryan Bulaga, Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

[Smash28Dash34]

I saw this too. Clean sweep for last years class. Only one I might disagree on his Castanzo vs Davis.

[JohnCandy]

Originally Posted by Smash28Dash34

I saw this too. Clean sweep for last years class. Only one I might disagree on his Castanzo vs Davis.

But he talks about how solid this class of OTs is and that 5 guys can go in the 1st round then he bashes them to pieces in his comparisons.

If this OT class is so solid why are most of them worse then a guy who went at pick 33 last year in Rodger Saffold.

[TACKLE]

Casserly is lying piece of poop if he says he had Saffold that high. Definitely some hindsight being used there.

[FrankGore]

At least someone likes Anthony Davis.

[Smash28Dash34]

Originally Posted by JohnCandy

But he talks about how solid this class of OTs is and that 5 guys can go in the 1st round then he bashes them to pieces in his comparisons.

If this OT class is so solid why are most of them worse then a guy who went at pick 33 last year in Rodger Saffold.

To me and I think a lot of people this o-line class is weak. Their is no Joe Thomas, Jake Long or Ryan Clady in this draft. A lot of the guys in this year's class are boom or bust potential players, none of whom are worth taking in the top 10.

[Iamcanadian]

I see a couple of contradictions or misleading information.

Stafford went in round 2 last year after Bulaga yet Casserly ranked him ahead of Bulaga, obviously GM's didn't agree with this assessment at the time.
Smith played on film at 280lbs. but he is 310lbs now, so the talk about anchoring the bull rush or being stronger and more physical could be gone quickly as Smith gets used to his new weight. I believe Smith's upside is much greater in all aspects than Okung's, however there are still questions about Smith's knees.
I do agree that last year's OT crop was much better than this years overall.

[TheSlinger]

Originally Posted by Smash28Dash34

To me and I think a lot of people this o-line class is weak. Their is no Joe Thomas, Jake Long or Ryan Clady in this draft. A lot of the guys in this year's class are boom or bust potential players, none of whom are worth taking in the top 10.

There isn't an elite type but there are about 10 guys who could go in the first two rounds once you start adding in guys like Jah Reid, Marcus Gilbert, Orlando Franklin and James Carpenter.

[Iamcanadian]

Smith, if it turns out his knees are solid, is definitely an elite LT prospect, the rest carry a solid grade but nothing outstanding.

[Smash28Dash34]

Originally Posted by TheSlinger

There isn't an elite type but there are about 10 guys who could go in the first two rounds once you start adding in guys like Jah Reid, Marcus Gilbert, Orlando Franklin and James Carpenter.

Agreed, I like James Carpenter too he is starting to shoot up draft boards. On paper this class is weak, but who knows maybe a number of these guys will turn out to be solid players.

[ChiefMojo]

I only see one OT in this draft that could be a long term All-Pro OT and that is Gabe Carimi. The only reason I say that is because he is the best RT in the draft, while some of these other guys in front of him aren't better OT's, but they are LT's... so they get first priority. I think Carimi is going to be very good on the right side for a long time!

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by ChiefMojo

I only see one OT in this draft that could be a long term All-Pro OT and that is Gabe Carimi. The only reason I say that is because he is the best RT in the draft, while some of these other guys in front of him aren't better OT's, but they are LT's... so they get first priority. I think Carimi is going to be very good on the right side for a long time!

Carimi played LT so not sure what the point is.

As for Casserly's ratings i probably would give him high marks for most, wouldnt take Davis over Castonzo though.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Carimi played LT so not sure what the point is.

As for Casserly's ratings i probably would give him high marks for most, wouldnt take Davis over Castonzo though.

As prospects I would take Davis over Castonzo. Castonzo at very best will be a good solid LT in the NFL. Davis has a much higher ceiling and his main issues as I remember were maturity concerns and trouble with his weight

[Ozzy]

He does put things into perspective. I always thought almost none of these big name tackles were worth such a high pick, great later picks but none are really flat out elite players yet. I was really disappointed in Castonzo last season, he did not play as well as he should have, same could go with Solder as well. A guy like Jah Reid could arguably be just as good in the 2nd round as some of these guys who might be 1st round picks. The offensive tackle spot is deep like it was said but not great in terms of elite level talent.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by JohnCandy

But he talks about how solid this class of OTs is and that 5 guys can go in the 1st round then he bashes them to pieces in his comparisons.

"It's Charley Casserly.

What the **** does he know about offensive lineman?"

-David Carr.

[SRogers92]

Quite frankly all that needs to be said is, the best LOT in this years' draft class has never played LT. He has a lot of question marks in his own right ... so, I'd say last years' OT class was leaps and bounds better than this years', too.

[K Train]

damn carimi is low. i think hes better on the right in the pros but he has LT potential

hes not loadholt or cherilus where everyone knows hes a RT only, i think theres potential for a move to the left

[AntoinCD]

I think Carimi in the right system could be a fine LT. Im not sure I'd want him protecting the blindside in a team like the Patriots who favour empty set passing schemes. However for someone like the Vikings he could certainly be a LT.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I think Carimi in the right system could be a fine LT. Im not sure I'd want him protecting the blindside in a team like the Patriots who favour empty set passing schemes. However for someone like the Vikings he could certainly be a LT.

+1 people who say Carimi can't play LT probably thought the same of Jumbo Elliot or Jon Runyan. They are not ideal LT but they can play there.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by bitonti

+1 people who say Carimi can't play LT probably thought the same of Jumbo Elliot or Jon Runyan. They are not ideal LT but they can play there.

Runyan's actually someone who I have compared Carimi to in the past. Isn't the most athletic or agile OT but plays with a real nasty streak and could be dominant in the right scheme.

[K Train]

if max starks can suck at LT, i think carimi could be servicable.

i do think hes a poor mans jake long....long was either gonna be an incredible RT or a good LT and it turned out hes a great LT.

on the right team i think carimi is a long time top 5 RT or a very capable LT

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

As prospects I would take Davis over Castonzo. Castonzo at very best will be a good solid LT in the NFL. Davis has a much higher ceiling and his main issues as I remember were maturity concerns and trouble with his weight

Maybe the weight was the reason he didnt move his feet that well. I'm basing my judgement on what he did his rookie year where i thought he looked below average.

[BigBanger]

Last year my OL rankings were:

1. Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa
2. Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
3. Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma St.
4. Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma
5. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho
6. Jon Asamoah, OG, Illinois
7. Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers

Bryan Bulaga was my favorite OT prospect since Eugene Monroe. Best technique. Great kneed bend. Natural tackle that could run block and pass block. Only one negative: short arms. I think he's athletic enough to play LT, but had a feeling he would start right away at either RT or OG. I gave him an elite grade. I think he'll take over for Clifton once he retires and be a Pro Bowl LT.

Russell Okung was kind of sloppy. A bit raw, but great in-line run blocker and incredible strength / power. Elite size and juts stupid length. Great punch, but footwork and technique needed a bit of work. A natural LT prospect. Easily better than Costanzo (my top OT) and a ton of upside. Gave him a top 10 grade.

Trent Williams was incredibly athletic and is easily the most talented OT in the past two years. Only had one year at LT and didn't always look good there. Had work ethic concerns and looked a little lazy / lackadaisical on the field. Gave him a Top 20 Grade even though he was a Top 10 talent. Couldn't shake the images of Eric Moncur kicking the living piss out of him, and Trent acting like he didn't care. Thought he was risky and could disappoint. Went to the PERFECT situation and the PERFECT scheme. When he dominated, he made it look easy. Great hand placement and terrific punch. Was a real technician. I don't think he has much potential though.

Anthony Davis had weight issues, work ethic issues and, at times, seemed disinterested when run blocking. Other times he was pancaking people. I thought he was a second round player with first round talent. Had the size and strength, but looked more like a future RT. Didn't dominate a conference he should have dominated. I thought there was too much bust potential and I thought he would fall in the draft. Basically, I had him as the lowest ranked linemen on my board. Thought SF reached on him. Just wouldn't move his feet and played sluggish. Very inconsistent.

Never saw Roger Saffold play.


My OL this year looks like this:

1. Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
2. Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
3. Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor
4. Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
5. Nate Solder, OT, Colorado

Mike Pouncey, to me, is the safest player... maybe in the entire draft. I don't think he's a Center and I think it was obvious that he was playing out of position. As a guard though? Different story. He's going to be really good and contend for multiple Pro Bowls. Good run blocker, good feet, good athletic ability and can pull and play in space. Also very good in pass protection. Feet are a little slow (not terrible, but slightly above average) in pass protection and he needs to play at guard. He's just the safest player. Not much potential, but you know exactly what you're getting. I gave him a Top 15 Grade. Wont be as good as his brother, and never was.

Anthony Castonzo looks the part of a Top 5 prospect. Then you watch him and he plays soft in pass protection. Inconsistent with his technique, plays a little high. Never was that dominating player. Has good feet, but not great feet. Needs to bulk up and get stronger. He reminds me a lot of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, just not as talented. But both guys were technically sound with long arms. I thought both would struggle early until they got stronger and defended the bull rush better. He's a hard worker, top notch intangibles, but I think he'll take a couple years (like Ferguson) to turn into the Pro that he's ultimately going to be. I think is athletic enough to play LT. Top 15 Grade.

Danny Watkins is a strong bastard that just competes. I have him as an early second round player, but worthy enough to go in round 1. I don't think he's an OT though. Not quite enough athleticism. A great guard prospect that reminds me a lot of Eric Wood (who I ranked in the first round). Maybe not quite as powerful, but one of those tough, nasty players that just keeps competing. If he was 22 years old, I would have him in the Top 20.

Gabe Carimi is a Big 10 OT if I've ever saw one. Not much talent, not much upside, but big, strong, physical, a little nasty and probably limited to a RT only at the next level. Carimi really struggled almost every time he went up against a top tier DE prospect. Clayborn, who isn't fast or explosive, ran around him a lot and made it look really easy. He just doesn't have the feet or athleticism of a LT. So, he's a RT only. Then I see him in the running game and he can push guys three to five yards off the ball, but he's a leaner. He will, quite frequently, fall on his face and wont sustain blocks. That's gonna happen at the next level quite a bit. I think he's going to get his ass kicked if he starts right away. He's get to get stronger and play with his head up. Needs better technique (already a good technician), but he struggles to maintain that technique when he faces an athletic linemen. He'll get tossed around a lot early in his NFL career. On the ground way too much. Also plays high and will struggle with the bull rush. I gave him a Round 3 Grade.

Nate Solder has the most upside. Yes, I said it. But he's also so damn raw and looks so damn bad in games that I'm not touching him until the end of round 3. He hustles and plays until the whistle, is incredibly long and athletic with tremendous feet, but the guy is really sloppy and inexperienced playing the position. When he gets beat, your QB gets killed. Good run blocker, but he's a project. A major project that could be limited due to his height. I think he's too tall to be a consistent technician. Gave him a Round 4 Grade.

I haven't seen Tyron Smith and only saw one game of Sherrod (where he looked like Chris Williams of Vanderbilt). This years class is not close to last years class of OL. My Top 5 OL from 2010 had All-Pro potential. I don't think anyone from this class has that kind of potential. Some solid starters, but I don't think anyone looks special. It's really not even close.

[TNPatsFan]

I'm confused. Your number 4 rated OT gets a third round grade?

Regardless, I think rating OL's for a draft is kind of a wasted effort anyway. Rating them for an individual team makes sense because every team rates them far differently. But just having an overall rating is kind of irrelevant for OL's.

I say it every year. Study the OL ratings that the draft experts put out now and then after the draft look back and compare where they actually went to where they were rated. They will be all over the place.

[BigBanger]

Originally Posted by TNPatsFan

I'm confused. Your number 4 rated OT gets a third round grade?

I have only watched 3 offensive tackles this year (Castonzo / Carimi / Solder). I only have 5 offensive linemen ranked and 3 OTs. That's it. I don't create lists of 40 offensive guards and 76 offensive tackles. I only rank players that I have watched. I only watched 5 offensive linemen. I don't have time to watch the consensus Top 10 Gs and Top 10 OTs. I watch the bigger name players and go from there. I usually don't even have 40 players ranked.

I have 3 OT with draft grades: Castonzo (Top 15), Carimi (Round 3), Solder (Round 4).

I guess I could do an accurate scouting report on DeMarcus Love and waste my time with that since I've seen a lot of him while watching Mallett. He would be a 7th rounder that will probably have to move to OG. So technically, my 4th rated OT is a 7th Rounder.


These are the only players I have ranked:

1. Marcell Dareus, DE, Alabama, Jr.
2. AJ Green, WR, Georgia, Jr
3. Von Miller, DE/OLB, Texas A&M, Sr.
4. Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri, Jr.
5. Patrick Peterson, DB, LSU, Jr.
6. Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska, Sr.
7. Cameron Jordan, DE, California, Sr.
8. Brooks Reed, DE/OLB, Arizona, Sr.
9. Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida, Sr.
10. J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin, Jr.

11. Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College, Sr.
12. Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, Temple, Jr.
13. Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue, Sr.
14. Aaron Williams, FS, Texas, Jr.
15. Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina, Jr.
16. Julio Jones, WR, Alabama, Jr.
17. Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn, Jr.
18. Ricky Stanzi, QB, Iowa, Sr.
19. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State, Sr.
20. Kyle Rudloph, TE, Notre Dame, Sr.

21. Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama, Jr.
22. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado, Sr.
23. Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri, So. (Rs)
24. Greg Little, WR, North Carolina, Sr.
25. Danny Watkins, OG, Baylor. Sr.
26. Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson, Sr.
27. Jake Locker, QB, Washington, Sr.
28. Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA, Jr.
29. Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh, Jr.
30. Daniel Thomas, RB, Kansas St.

31. Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa, Sr.
32. Justin Houston, DE, Georgia, Jr.
33. Ryan Mallet, QB, Arkansas, Sr.
34. Andy Dalton, QB, TCU, Sr.
35. Cam Newton, QB, Auburn, Sr.
36. Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin, Sr.
37. Allen Bailey, DL, Miami (FL), Sr.
38. Nate Solder, OT, Colorado, Sr.
39. Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina, Sr.
40. DeMarcus Love, OL, Arkansas, Sr.