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Old 04-25-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
contento
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Default Can NE Really Trade Down?

I've seen a lot of mocks where Belicheat trades down one of his two 1st round picks, and maybe rightly so considering how many times he trades down...


But can they do that this year? Do they have the roster spots available to acquire even more picks?


With 6 picks in the first 3 rounds, that's 6 players that you'd expect HAVE to make the roster. And you can forget trying to stash any of them on the Practice Squad. Then NE has who knows how many picks after that, can they find roster spots for those kids or will they just get plucked from the Practice Squad?


NE was a 14 win team who had a great draft last year, so it's not like they have a lot of holes...how are they gonna make room for all these picks they have?



I guess my point is I think this may be the year where Belicheat moves up once or maybe twice in the draft.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Amukamara and Julio Jones, I don't see anyone worth trading up for that NE wouldn't find comparable value at 17.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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A Patriots draft without a trade down is not a Patriots draft.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure the Patriots hope to capitalize on the QB feeding frenzy at the bottom of Round 1. They can likely pick up a 2012 first round pick and a second round pick this year to move back 5-15 spots and get someone they like just as well as who they could have selected with the 1.28 pick. I don't think they will find someone they consider to be a first-round talent at 1.28 so trading down is the smart thing to do from a value standpoint. They could decide to do the same thing with the 1.17 choice.

I don't see them moving up at all.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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It's possible they trade for a future pick at some point. Perhaps trading their second rounder for a first rounder next year.

Granted, I guess that's not really trading "down" but trading "out" but you get my point. They aren't limited in the moves they can make.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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NE was a 14 win team who had a great draft last year, so it's not like they have a lot of holes...
Yes, we do. We have a huge gap at DE and we need at least a couple of OLBs since, I don't know, 2006. Not to mention the entire O-Line, S, CB, possibly RB and a QB of the future to grow behind Brady.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't see a reason why they should go up unless a star falls to 13 or so.

The draft is a crap shoot and random to some extent, so don't consolidate your chances and keep compiling raffle tickets.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Yes, we do. We have a huge gap at DE and we need at least a couple of OLBs since, I don't know, 2006. Not to mention the entire O-Line, S, CB, possibly RB and a QB of the future to grow behind Brady.


Okay, translate those holes into roster spots for this rookie class then please.


If you explain it well, I'll believe it. I'm certainly no Pats expert, just seems to me there's too many indians and not enough chiefs

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Old 04-25-2011, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.

Wow, it must be someone who wants a QB. Why else give up that much for the 28th pick.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.
If it's the Titans I'm done.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.

At some point Goodell needs to step in and quit letting these dumbass teams just drown their franchise in ****** trades that favor the Pats.


Like the 33rd pick for *** Armanti Edwards? seriously?

How much is Kraft paying under the table to Richardson for a trade this lopsided?
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.
If this goes down, I just don't get how its so easy for them.

How come more teams don't take advantage of compiling picks, seems like all teams should have these options...
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.
I could see this being Cincy rumblings going on that they are looking to trade up in the 1st to try and get Ponder or Dalton.

Mike Brown tends to do terrible trades when he actually trades up.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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If it's the Titans I'm done.
Peter King wrote about this rumor in his MMQB, and he mentioned the Titans..

Thats an insane amount to move up a mere 10-20 spots depending on the team. Thats 2 first round picks and a second round pick- that would be higher draft compensation than even Jay Cutler got from Chicago. If its a team in the top 5 or 10 offering that they might as well just use the top 10 pick on that QB.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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If this goes down, I just don't get how its so easy for them.

How come more teams don't take advantage of compiling picks, seems like all teams should have these options...
New England can do this because they are exceptional at identifying talent that will fit into their system, assigning the appropriate value on the players they do like and then being true to what their board tells them. That kind of discipline is rare and it's served them well.

Clearly Josh McDaniels didn't pay much attention to that aspect of the organization before he left.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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At some point Goodell needs to step in and quit letting these dumbass teams just drown their franchise in ****** trades that favor the Pats.


Like the 33rd pick for *** Armanti Edwards? seriously?

How much is Kraft paying under the table to Richardson for a trade this lopsided?
don't blame the patriots, they are taking advantage of other teams stupidity.

hey i wouldnt mind such a trade at all, sounds pretty orgasmic actually :-D
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Pats may have an offer on the table for #28.

They'd get a 2nd Rounder this year and 1st Rounder next.
For that not to be essentially highway robbery, the Pats have to be giving up something else, or that team has to be picking fairly late in the second round.

28 is worth 660 and the pick worth 330 doesn't come until 57... so maybe Seattle? But if they wanted a QB, why wouldn't they take one at #25?
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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I could see this being Cincy rumblings going on that they are looking to trade up in the 1st to try and get Ponder or Dalton.

Mike Brown tends to do terrible trades when he actually trades up.
That would be beyond terrible though. They're jumping up 7 picks in that scenario, the Bengals first rounder next year alone is worth the 18th pick this year. In fact, the first rounder and #35 gets them between picks 7 and 8 this year. Granted, there's some questions about whether or not there will be a draft next year but there should be and either way that's just really bad. Should just give up a 4th and maybe a 6th or a 7th if interested and be done with it.

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For that not to be essentially highway robbery, the Pats have to be giving up something else, or that team has to be picking fairly late in the second round.

28 is worth 660 and the pick worth 330 doesn't come until 57... so maybe Seattle? But if they wanted a QB, why wouldn't they take one at #25?
Maybe it's Oakland, although giving their first to the Pats two years in a row would be a little odd and they could get up a good amount farther I'd imagine. Maybe a team somewhere in the late first wants a QB and is targeting somebody else in that range?
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Okay, translate those holes into roster spots for this rookie class then please.


If you explain it well, I'll believe it. I'm certainly no Pats expert, just seems to me there's too many indians and not enough chiefs



Waiting...
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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Belichick said having 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds is like having two drafts in one.

Translation: I'm going to trade down twice as much.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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For that not to be essentially highway robbery, the Pats have to be giving up something else, or that team has to be picking fairly late in the second round.

28 is worth 660 and the pick worth 330 doesn't come until 57... so maybe Seattle? But if they wanted a QB, why wouldn't they take one at #25?
Here's a list of possibilities in reverse (draft) order:
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Oakland
San Fransisco?
Minnesota?

After that, you'd be giving up a first to move up fewer than 15 spots...
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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Waiting...
Hypothetically,

17. Mike Pouncey
28. Trade with SF for 2nd and a future 1st
33. Cameron Heyward
45. Akeem Ayers
60. Marcus Gilbert
74. Trade with Oakland for 81 and a 5th rounder
81. Demarco Murray
92. Rashad Carmichael

Fills a hole at OG, DE, OLB, OT, RB and CB while also adding a future 1st and a 5th round pick this year. With free agency not been decided the Pats like all others have more holes than normal to fill
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Hypothetically,

17. Mike Pouncey
28. Trade with SF for 2nd and a future 1st
33. Cameron Heyward
45. Akeem Ayers
60. Marcus Gilbert
74. Trade with Oakland for 81 and a 5th rounder
81. Demarco Murray
92. Rashad Carmichael

Fills a hole at OG, DE, OLB, OT, RB and CB while also adding a future 1st and a 5th round pick this year. With free agency not been decided the Pats like all others have more holes than normal to fill
I find it unlikely that Pouncey, Heyward, or Ayers would be left at any of those spots. DeMarco Murray would be nice but the Patriots didn't seem to show much interest in him yet and I think it's more likely they go for pretty much any other highly-rated RB (with the exception of Thomas/Taiwan.) Carmichael is the worst tackler in this draft class (Antonio Cromartie/Mike Jenkins/Asante Samuel bad.) Here's what PFW said about Gilbert:

Quote:
"Lacks physical and mental toughness and too often looks for an easy way out. Has a lazy streak and gets by on his natural talent. Plays too soft...not a finisher. Plays with the temperament of a chardonnay drinker...easily influenced follower. Will take time to adjust to an NFL playbook...a flash player who will tease with his sheer mass and athletic ability but may not have enough grit, toughness, and desire to survive the everyday grind in the NFL's trenches."
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:00 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
I find it unlikely that Pouncey, Heyward, or Ayers would be left at any of those spots. DeMarco Murray would be nice but the Patriots didn't seem to show much interest in him yet and I think it's more likely they go for pretty much any other highly-rated RB (with the exception of Thomas/Taiwan.) Carmichael is the worst tackler in this draft class (Antonio Cromartie/Mike Jenkins/Asante Samuel bad.) Here's what PFW said about Gilbert:
There is a shot though that all three will be there at those points. I was just throwing a hypothetical scenario out there.

I also do agree on those aspects of Carmichael's game however I will point to Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, Terrence Wheatley, Darius Butler. All CBs drafted by Belichick based on their ball skills and none would be regarded as stellar tacklers. Plus at that stage in the third it would be worth the risk based on his upside
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