Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2011, 11:01 PM    (permalink
the natural
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 606
Reputation: -13770
the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural the natural
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by batsandgats View Post
"Don't know about the "Alpha male" bit.

I mean what does that statement even mean? Dominant personality. They were eating candy and Gabbert asked for some and Ponder, well i didn't want to give mine up, but okay here you go?
Alpha male is alpha male. He brought it up I didn't. Gabbert was the man at the Phoenix API workouts. Terry Shea and others mentioned the fact. Not meant as a crack at Ponder. I like him next best to Gabbert among the QBs. Very underrated, and probably does some things that Gabbert can't. But yeah, Ponder would give Gabbert the candy.
the natural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2011, 11:16 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,757
Reputation: 248194
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Now that some of the dust has settled, I'm convinced that Christian Ponder will have the brightest career out of the QBs selected in this year's draft. People can say the Vikings reached, but their board was put together for their own team. Not for the other 31.

Quote:
I disagree, when Locker went #8 to Tennessee, Minny panicked and took Ponder way ahead of his value even for a QB.
Ponder will succeed because:

1) Intelligence. Graduated in 2.5 years with a 3.7 GPA and already has a Master's degree. Goes to show the kind of commitment and work ethic he has off the field. It's also a good sign to show that a high ceiling on his learning capacity, which is crucial for the QB position.

Quote:
No argument there, he is a very bright guy and likely a very hard worker.
2) Strong arm. Ponder's arm is plenty strong to make all the NFL throws. If you don't know it, watch him.

Quote:
Here you are wrong, he doesn't have a really strong arm but should be OK in a WCO.
3) Elusive on his feet. He's not a runner like Newton, Tebow, Vick... but he's comfortable making plays on his feet and escaping pressure. In a lot of ways he reminds me of how Romo used to be. Romo runs a lot less now days, but he used to be a magician back there. So while he uses his feet well, he doesn't take off and scramble on his first instinct. Big plus.

Quote:
Again, I agree, he is more pro ready but his upside is limited.
3) Ponder comes from a pro style system. His footwork out from underneath center is smooth and automatic. He doesn't have to think about his footwork. It's just natural, unlike his peers coming from spread option systems who don't have the repetitiion advantage.

Quote:
No argument.
4) No accuracy question marks. While Locker and Newton have been highly criticized of this, nobody says that about Ponder.

Quote:
They do question his deep ball where he isn't as accurate as you would like. Solid on short and intermediate throws but lacks the arm strength to be consistent on deep throws.
5) He's a gunslinger. He's got that Brett Favre, never die attitude. He looks to extend plays and make things happen out of nothing. While that can be good many times, it has lead to some of his INTs... but the Vikings will love him for it.

Quote:
I think he is much more of a possible above average game manager, his ceiling is Hasselbach but his floor is very average.
6) Alpha male. This is important to me. Ponder sparkles those good looks that all those confident lead dogs have. People like him and gravitate him. People want to follow him. He's an easy guy to place confidence in. When he leads, you want to listen. That's the type he is. Not just because of his looks, but the complete package. Looks, smarts, athletic... fricken... our society loves those kinds of people. That's just the way it is.

Quote:
I have no problem with his leadership qualities.
7) Strong supporting cast. Now here is the real kicker that puts everything over the top. Ponder is going to a place where he can succeed right away. Handing the ball off to Adrian Peterson and targets like Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Berrian and Camarillo... not to mention a solid TE in Shianco... Ponder is landing in the best situation of all the other QBs in this draft.

Quote:
I agree, he has some advantages although his OL is aging.
So before you start knocking the pick (all you Locker lovers who praised Tennessee), realize you might be knocking the best QB to come out of this draft!!! They didn't reach. They got a damn STEAL!
I again beg to disagree, still think it was more of a panic pick, it doesn't mean he will flop but it was a reach IMO. His ceiling is nowhere near Newton's or Gabbert's or Locker's but he can possibly be a decent starter but not special.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2011, 11:19 PM    (permalink
jayceheathman
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,133
Reputation: 337229
jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jayceheathman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like McShay's quote that goes something like "For such a smart guy, he sure makes a lot of stupid decisions on the field." haha

I think Locker is going to be the best QB of this class.
__________________
jayceheathman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 12:08 AM    (permalink
SF Dolphin Fan
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 206
Reputation: 47099
SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SF Dolphin Fan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I tend to agree. I love Ponder and I think Minnesota with all of its offensive weapons is the perfect fit for him. I have long believed that Ponder is the most NFL ready of this quarterback class. The key for him will be staying healthy.
SF Dolphin Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 12:25 AM    (permalink
BuddyCHRIST
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallahassee FL
Posts: 1,935
Reputation: 65704
BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BuddyCHRIST is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What I don't get is projecting someone as a game manager, or his ceiling as a QB etc. Is physical tools ever what separates the good QBs from the greats? Joe Montana had below average physical tools. Tom Brady wasn't projected as more than a game manager.

People like to say "Won't win you games, but won't lose them either" but if you are smart and make the right throws you will win your team alot of games. Its not like its Peyton Manning's physical ability that separates him from the pack.

And people knock Ponder's decision making sometimes, but go look at his junior year when he had a veteran WR corp, no one questioned his decisions then. Bad WR play often times makes a QB look poor. Theres a reason Jimbo is always ripping his WRs a new one.
BuddyCHRIST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 02:22 AM    (permalink
draftgod
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 47
Reputation: -1077
draftgod draftgod draftgod draftgod draftgod
Default

He will be better than newton and gabbert. That I do not doubt. Locker and dalton? Idk about them. Even kaepernick working under harbaugh could have a better career. Ponder's injury bug is a big concern and you wonder how he'll handle nfl pressure since he didn't handle ncaa pressure well.
draftgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 02:40 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,757
Reputation: 248194
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by draftgod View Post
He will be better than newton and gabbert. That I do not doubt. Locker and dalton? Idk about them. Even kaepernick working under harbaugh could have a better career. Ponder's injury bug is a big concern and you wonder how he'll handle nfl pressure since he didn't handle ncaa pressure well.
What makes you a prophet, I like how you throw out opinion with no details.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 04:22 PM    (permalink
Bucs4242
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 239
Reputation: 2254
Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.Bucs4242 could make a wolverine purr.
Default

Ive watched FSU throughout Ponder's career, the guy has been overlooked throughout the run up to the draft, and itrs good to see him be selected in the 1st round

He has size, athleticism, football IQ, and he is a very good passer

I dont know where these morons Kiper and McSHAY get off saying he has no arm. He doesnt have a cannon, but his arm is more than adequate

Im not even a big FSU fan anymore, I root for South Florida, but this guy is going ot be good
__________________
Bucs4242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 04:25 PM    (permalink
EvilNixon
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Memphis
Posts: 2,629
Reputation: 83064
EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.EvilNixon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
BTW that "pro style" system is the famed Bobby Petrino offense
It actually produced Jamarcus Russell's junior numbers...
__________________


mucho props to wiscbadgerfootball


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
like honestly lebron, instead of south beach, why don't you take your talents and just shove them up your ass.
EvilNixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 11:34 PM    (permalink
Roddoliver
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 292
Reputation: 30476
Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The Bills, Bengals, Cardinals, 49ers, Titans and Redskins did not think Blaine Gabbert is a franchise QB worthy of a top 10 pick. Smart organizations. Poor Jaguars. It will be fun to watch.
Roddoliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
gpngc
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MetLife, Clink x4, MetLife
Posts: 12,072
Reputation: 1519571
gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
The Bills, Bengals, Cardinals, 49ers, Titans and Redskins did not think Blaine Gabbert is a franchise QB worthy of a top 10 pick. Smart organizations. Poor Jaguars. It will be fun to watch.
It's a great point.

That's what is so telling about ALL of these QBs (minus Newton). Four teams lacking a franchise QB declined to take them.
gpngc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 18,280
Reputation: 2096525
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilNixon View Post
It actually produced Jamarcus Russell's junior numbers...
The inconsistency people view the Petrino offense with is really astounding. A few years ago, when it was an issue, I heard very compelling evidence that supports that you should not be enamored with some of the statistics that come out of a Petrino/Jimbo scheme and was inclined to believe them. Now that another few quarterbacks are coming out of that system and people want them to be good, it's almost like that's all shoved aside and forgotten about. I'm not saying that either Mallett or Ponder can't be successful because of this trap, but it really is something that shouldn't fall outside the breadth of the evaluation process. It's easy, high percentage throws that cloud up completion percentages and hide accuracy issues the way the spread does. We can almost all agree that Joey Harrington wasn't an accurate quarterback at the NFL level...yet under the Petrino system he actually put up grossly different statistical profile than he did under any other, even "reviving" his career for a time, getting him another year in the league before washing out.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 12:56 AM    (permalink
General Zod
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6,292
Reputation: 1524940
General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.General Zod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Trent Dilfer hated the pick and ripped it to pieces.

I can say as a Vikings fan, this made me feel a little better about the pick. lol
General Zod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 01:32 AM    (permalink
FuzzyGopher
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Unicorn Enthusiast
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 704462
FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Dilfer also said Newton had the best workout he's ever seen and talked up Greg McElroy like he was Johnny Unitas reincarnated. I take what he says with a grain of salt. He did eviscerate Ponder in a radio interview for whatever reason, I'm thinking Ponder killed his dog and ****** his mom.
__________________
FuzzyGopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 01:40 AM    (permalink
WCH
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,956
Reputation: 3092363
WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyGopher View Post
Dilfer also said Newton had the best workout he's ever seen and talked up Greg McElroy like he was Johnny Unitas reincarnated. I take what he says with a grain of salt. He did eviscerate Ponder in a radio interview for whatever reason, I'm thinking Ponder killed his dog and ****** his mom.
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Dilfer sucked as an NFL QB because he's an idiot -- he had all of the physical tools.

It's not that he's always wrong, it's just that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Last edited by WCH : 05-01-2011 at 01:48 AM.
WCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 01:59 AM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,693
Reputation: 681842
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Now that some of the dust has settled, I'm convinced that Christian Ponder will have the brightest career out of the QBs selected in this year's draft. People can say the Vikings reached, but their board was put together for their own team. Not for the other 31.

Ponder will succeed because:

1) Intelligence. Graduated in 2.5 years with a 3.7 GPA and already has a Master's degree. Goes to show the kind of committment and work ethic he has off the field. It's also a good sign to show that a high ceiling on his learning capacity, which is crucial for the QB position.

2) Strong arm. Ponder's arm is plenty strong to make all the NFL throws. If you don't know it, watch him.

3) Elusive on his feet. He's not a runner like Newton, Tebow, Vick... but he's comfortable making plays on his feet and escaping pressure. In a lot of ways he reminds me of how Romo used to be. Romo runs a lot less now days, but he used to be a magician back there. So while he uses his feet well, he doesn't take off and scramble on his first instinct. Big plus.

3) Ponder comes from a pro style system. His footwork out from underneath center is smooth and automatic. He doesn't have to think about his footwork. It's just natural, unlike his peers coming from spread option systems who don't have the repetitiion advantage.

4) No accuracy question marks. While Locker and Newton have been highly criticized of this, nobody says that about Ponder.

5) He's a gunslinger. He's got that Brett Favre, never die attitude. He looks to extend plays and make things happen out of nothing. While that can be good many times, it has lead to some of his INTs... but the Vikings will love him for it.

6) Alpha male. This is important to me. Ponder sparkles those good looks that all those confident lead dogs have. People like him and gravitate him. People want to follow him. He's an easy guy to place confidence in. When he leads, you want to listen. That's the type he is. Not just because of his looks, but the complete package. Looks, smarts, athletic... fricken... our society loves those kinds of people. That's just the way it is.

7) Strong supporting cast. Now here is the real kicker that puts everything over the top. Ponder is going to a place where he can succeed right away. Handing the ball off to Adrian Peterson and targets like Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Berrian and Camarillo... not to mention a solid TE in Shianco... Ponder is landing in the best situation of all the other QBs in this draft.

So before you start knocking the pick (all you Locker lovers who praised Tennessee), realize you might be knocking the best QB to come out of this draft!!! They didn't reach. They got a damn STEAL!
I don't understand the purpose of this thread. I was expecting some kind of argument stating that Ponder was worthy of the pick because of his physical attributes. Yet, there is little mention of his physical attributes and more time spent on his good looks. I've never heard someone say a QB was going to be successful because he's good looking, but there's always a first for something.

This just seems like you're taking the same stance the Vikings were. You're just taking a shot in the dark and hoping for the best. To come back in four years and say, "I told you so."

1. The first reason for his success in the NFL is... he graduated in 2.5 years? That's great and you want a smart QB, but it shouldn't be the first thing that pops into your head. Being a Rhodes Scholar didn't help the overrated S from Florida St. a few years ago (his name is escaping me at the moment). On the field, he had no instincts and took terrible angles to the ball. He can be the smartest man in the NFL, but it wont help him be a successful football player. It's good that Ponder is smart. It shows that he wont be hindered from doing the "homework" or "work" aspect of football.

2. He has a west cost system arm. Nothing to really hang your hat on. You would prefer a guy with a stronger arm. He has to rely on anticipation, throwing receivers open and being crafty with ball placement and timing.

3. He is NFL ready. Don't compare him to the other guys though. He's no longer in a competition against Cam Newton or Andy Dalton. His draft status is completed. Now he's being compared to Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Josh Freeman, ect. If Cam Newton turns into JaMarcus Russell, it would help him if he's a career backup. He was however coming from a very watered down system that relied heavily on WR screens and quick passes to RBs in the flats, which would suck CBs up close to the line and create large voids in the defense for the intermediate to deep routes. He is comfortable taking NFL drop backs and making NFL reads, but his system inflated some numbers and put him in favorable situations. It did help JaMarcus Russell who had a very low football IQ.

4. Yes, he's accurate.

5. He doesn't have Favre's arm strength. You can't be a gunslinger without a gun. That leads to trouble and more INTs. No fan will want to see him trying to throw passes into windows his arm doesn't have the strength to complete. he already has question decision making.

6. I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself. I'll just say that's a little weird.

7. Ponder is behind a terrible offensive line. He does have some nice weapons at the skill positions, but Minnesota better get him some protection up front. This is a league where teams pick from the middle of the pack one season and then have the #1 overall pick the next season (See the Carolina Panthers this past year). This team is an aging team. Rice has injuries issues and Peterson is a violent shot away from being on the IR for weeks at a time. Harvin also has a small frame and takes big shots, misses games.

Last year the Rams had a terrible offensive line. That was a reason people thought you shouldn't put a QB with injury concerns behind that kind of line. A year later, and the Rams have two young bookend tackles and a strong offensive line. It quickly went from a major weakness in 2009 to a major strength in 2010. They should have an even better OL in 2011 as they gain more experience.


I don't think Ponder is a franchise QB. I think you're looking at a game manager type that could start for you in a pinch. More of a Top 20 caliber QB than a Top 10 caliber QB. I think his ceiling is completely pedestrian. One of those QBs that starts for a team, but a QB that a team is always looking to upgrade. I think he'll be a David Garrard or Mark Sanchez type QB. If surrounded by a lot of talent, could be a solid pro that wins some games, but a guy that will ultimately hold you back from advancing in the playoffs. Which is more of a third round or fourth round QB.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.
BigBanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 06:51 AM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,847
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
I don't understand the purpose of this thread. I was expecting some kind of argument stating that Ponder was worthy of the pick because of his physical attributes. Yet, there is little mention of his physical attributes and more time spent on his good looks. I've never heard someone say a QB was going to be successful because he's good looking, but there's always a first for something.

So you pick out the #6 point (which is more about personality/leadership than looks; looks being a part of the reason because of the way society views/treats people...and that being one attributing factor of him having confidence/leadership skills) and overexaggerate that fact, while downplaying the fact that I mentioned the other parts of his strengths including intelligence, arm strength, mobility, accuracy, and system experience? Come on BigBanger. If you're gonna rip me, at least be accurate. You don't have to twist the story, just debate it straight up.

This just seems like you're taking the same stance the Vikings were. You're just taking a shot in the dark and hoping for the best. To come back in four years and say, "I told you so."

Whatever it may seem to you, I'm sorry, I cannot control. All I can say is that if you think I went out and researched the thoughts and feelings of the Vikings organization on the pick or overheard them and just copied them, then that is simply incorrect. These are my own thoughts. Is it a shot in the dark? Ummm...yeah, I guess... Just like it would be a shot in the dark for anyone to know what any other player in the draft will turn out as well... so should we just smash everyone who gives out grades on teams' drafts? Because hell, it's all the same...just a shot in the dark afterall.... If you think I care about coming back to this thread down the line just so I can puff up my chest, then I can assure you... I won't.

Here's what I do care about though... I do love taking the side of the minority and defending it to stir interesting conversation on the forum. I just don't like following the herd all the time... Sorry... if people want to bash Cam Newton for what I see as wrong reasons, then I'll take a stance against it... If people want to say Eric Berry is the best DB in the last decade... I'll take a stance against it. If people want to bash Taylor Mays, I'll take a stance against it... If people want to predict failure for Reggie Bush... I'll take a stance against it. If someone wants to bash Bill Parcells... I'll take a stance against.... I like to keep the pot stirring. I like to have interesting sports debates. I like the emotion behind taking a stand for something that goes against the grain. I'm not always right, nor am I always wrong, but I am always looking to entertain good discussion... and the purpose is not for self-glory to look back on it and take some imaginary e-credit. My self esteem is perfectly fine without needing that kind of attention, thank you very much.


1. The first reason for his success in the NFL is... he graduated in 2.5 years? That's great and you want a smart QB, but it shouldn't be the first thing that pops into your head. Being a Rhodes Scholar didn't help the overrated S from Florida St. a few years ago (his name is escaping me at the moment). On the field, he had no instincts and took terrible angles to the ball. He can be the smartest man in the NFL, but it wont help him be a successful football player. It's good that Ponder is smart. It shows that he wont be hindered from doing the "homework" or "work" aspect of football.

I'll tell you what. Smarts IS at the top for me. If you got a dumb QB, with all the talent in the world, and a QB who is smart, but isn't the most talented, I'd take the latter, all day, every day. ...and mentioning his advancement in schooling isn't about saying "wow, he's so book smart, that's gonna equate to him being successful in the NFL". Maybe I need to clarify more to eliminate your confusion or your want to spin it from the point I was actually trying to make. The fact that he can handle the classroom is exactly what you said in your last sentence. Basically that he has the capacity and discipline to learn, study and increase his knowledge of the game when it comes time for him to take on the task of becoming a highly intelligent and well versed NFL QB. Quarterbacks that have learning disabilities or learn slow, limit their games and even limit what their teams can do.

2. He has a west cost system arm. Nothing to really hang your hat on. You would prefer a guy with a stronger arm. He has to rely on anticipation, throwing receivers open and being crafty with ball placement and timing.

He's not Jeff George, John Elway or Brett Favre... I'd give that title to Mallett... but before Ponder's injury he could sling it 65-70 yards with ease. I think he'll get back there if he hasn't already. At this point, it's simply not a concern. Plus, strength is the easiest thing for an athlete to increase... unlike natural born athleticism and hand-eye coordination.

3. He is NFL ready. Don't compare him to the other guys though. He's no longer in a competition against Cam Newton or Andy Dalton. His draft status is completed. Now he's being compared to Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Josh Freeman, ect. If Cam Newton turns into JaMarcus Russell, it would help him if he's a career backup. He was however coming from a very watered down system that relied heavily on WR screens and quick passes to RBs in the flats, which would suck CBs up close to the line and create large voids in the defense for the intermediate to deep routes. He is comfortable taking NFL drop backs and making NFL reads, but his system inflated some numbers and put him in favorable situations. It did help JaMarcus Russell who had a very low football IQ.

Ummm... not sure where you're going there. I didn't say he's NFL ready, but if that's what you're implying then... okaaay.... I did emphasize that he's at an advantage because his system at FSU is similar to a Pro-style system that has him taking snaps from under center. He won't be held back in the same way the QBs from spread offenses will when it comes to the footwork involved. I'm not gonna act like I know the intricacies of Jimbo Fisher's system, nor am I gonna assume that it's a straight copy of Petrino's offense. I'm pretty sure Fisher has his own creative mind and that while he may take some things from Petrino, it's not a duplicate in entirety. That said, I didn't even bring that up, nor did I make mention of his stats to prove a point. So you're taking your own turns in the conversation there.



4. Yes, he's accurate.

5. He doesn't have Favre's arm strength. You can't be a gunslinger without a gun. That leads to trouble and more INTs. No fan will want to see him trying to throw passes into windows his arm doesn't have the strength to complete. he already has question decision making.

Being a gunslinger is a mentality, not ability. Arm strength is irrelevant. A little kid in pop warner can be a gunslinger. It's the way he thinks on his feet in pressure situations. Will he take the sack, or try to extend the play? Will he purposely throw it out of bounds or force it at the cost of making a mistake? ...I covered arm strength earlier. Here I was talking about his approach as a QB. ..and I did mention the pros and cons of being a gunslinger.

6. I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself. I'll just say that's a little weird.

Feel free to do what you want. My opinion is that I think in today's society "looks" have a lot to do with both outside perception and inside self esteem. The Alpha male concept is a positive factor for a QB and I think he's got it. It's hard to be an Alpha male when you are ugly. Not saying you gotta be a stud muffin either... normal works just fine... but ugly definitely makes it difficult to get guys to follow...in many walks of life. ...unless you got $$$.

7. Ponder is behind a terrible offensive line. He does have some nice weapons at the skill positions, but Minnesota better get him some protection up front. This is a league where teams pick from the middle of the pack one season and then have the #1 overall pick the next season (See the Carolina Panthers this past year). This team is an aging team. Rice has injuries issues and Peterson is a violent shot away from being on the IR for weeks at a time. Harvin also has a small frame and takes big shots, misses games.

Last year the Rams had a terrible offensive line. That was a reason people thought you shouldn't put a QB with injury concerns behind that kind of line. A year later, and the Rams have two young bookend tackles and a strong offensive line. It quickly went from a major weakness in 2009 to a major strength in 2010. They should have an even better OL in 2011 as they gain more experience.

My point remains. Ponder's supporting cast is strong. Strong enough that I perceive it to be a strength and advantage for him to be the best QB to come out of this draft class. Significantly better than what the other QBs with starting opportunities in the near future are getting into. The OL has problems that they are trying to correct, but this thread wasn't about Pondering being the best QB in year 1. I'm talking career. Whatever weaknesses they have on the OL today, may not be there later. When I look at the QB that Ponder is and what he brings to the table and I combine that with the kind of talent I see in Minnesota, I think the end result will be a big success.

I don't think Ponder is a franchise QB. I think you're looking at a game manager type that could start for you in a pinch. More of a Top 20 caliber QB than a Top 10 caliber QB. I think his ceiling is completely pedestrian. One of those QBs that starts for a team, but a QB that a team is always looking to upgrade. I think he'll be a David Garrard or Mark Sanchez type QB. If surrounded by a lot of talent, could be a solid pro that wins some games, but a guy that will ultimately hold you back from advancing in the playoffs. Which is more of a third round or fourth round QB.

Getting away from the point I was making... I never said that Ponder will necessarily go on to be a franchise QB, but I am saying he's going to be the best QB to come out of this draft. Two different things. Subtle, but significant. If he becomes a franchise QB, awesome. I wasn't saying he was or wasn't. I'm saying, don't bash the pick the Vikings made at 12. Their big board is arranged according to 1 team. Theirs. Whatever anyone else may say about them reaching is based on their own perception and their own disregard to risk.
Comments in bold.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 07:17 AM    (permalink
J-Mike88
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Titletown USA
Posts: 9,263
Reputation: 1345807
J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.J-Mike88 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I agree with the Patrick Ramsey comparison. I also see a little of John David Booty (I thought he was better than Ponder is at this point) and Gus Frerotte on Ponder. Although I agree with FredSavage above that Ponder is much cuter than Ramsey, and certainly the goon that is Gus.

All in all, it's a terrible pick for the Vikings. But I will say this: Except for the minor note that the Vikings OL is shaky, shaky, he does go to a team with better weapons than any of the other rookie QBs who are expected to start very soon. Adrian Peterson at RB, Sidney Rice & Percy Harvin at WR, and Shiancoe at TE is a nice nucleus of receiving options.

As a Cheesehead, this pick at #12 gave me great pleasure, but the pick at #13 didn't.

Last edited by J-Mike88 : 05-01-2011 at 07:26 AM.
J-Mike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:12 AM    (permalink
nepg
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,497
Reputation: 1534391
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

It's baffling that teams can sit down and watch Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett on film and take the two formers over the latter. Ponder played like crap his entire career. He's gotten by completely on his reputation as a top recruit. His supporting cast at Florida State was probably better than what the other QBs in this draft were working with, and he failed consistently.

Maybe he's Josh Freeman...even if he is, Mallett is still better. Ponder seemed like one of those guys you draft in the 3rd or 4th round who might turn into something more than a good backup. JD Booty (good call), Erik Ainge, Kevin O'Connell, etc.

I had him #7
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton
10. Devlin
__________________

Last edited by nepg : 05-01-2011 at 08:16 AM.
nepg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 09:17 AM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,693
Reputation: 681842
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
All I can say is that if you think I went out and researched the thoughts and feelings of the Vikings organization on the pick or overheard them and just copied them, then that is simply incorrect. These are my own thoughts.
I understand they are your own thoughts. I was alluding to the fact that the Vikings probably wanted Ponder in round 2, or to trade up / down in the 20s of round 1 and take him at better "value." Instead, they seen the run on QBs -- 3 in the Top 10 -- and panicked, which is something they have a history of doing (reaching to fill a position of need). They probably (and yes, I'm just guessing) felt like the Redskins or someone else behind them would draft Ponder. Instead of getting a Top 10 caliber player at 12th overall, now they hit the panic button and draft a second round caliber QB (in my opinion 3rd or 4th round QB), because they NEED a QB. So, basically I'm saying, "They took a shot in the dark." Which is what I feel you are doing with this thread... taking a shot in the dark, and hoping for the best. No real conviction. No real justification. Just a glimmer of hope.

I was saying that it seemed like you were jumping on their ship because everyone was saying this was one of the worst picks in the draft. Which you admitted to doing:

Quote:
Here's what I do care about though... I do love taking the side of the minority and defending it to stir interesting conversation on the forum.
I was implying, without saying it directly, that I felt you gave a weak argument and were taking the Vikings side just for the sake of taking their side. Not because you necessarily believe Ponder will be a good NFL QB, which you also admitted to doing. When I see this response, I assume that's all this was: Just defending the minority.

Quote:
I like to keep the pot stirring. I like to have interesting sports debates. I like the emotion behind taking a stand for something that goes against the grain.
Again, more towards my original point. I didn't feel any sense of "emotion" behind your original post. If felt like you were thinking, "Well, since no one else is defending him, I guess I will." I've never heard someone mention a player's good / bad looks either, so it felt like you were reaching for reasons.


Quote:
Is it a shot in the dark? Ummm...yeah, I guess... Just like it would be a shot in the dark for anyone to know what any other player in the draft will turn out as well... so should we just smash everyone who gives out grades on teams' drafts? Because hell, it's all the same...just a shot in the dark afterall....
I don't give grades on drafts personally, and I don't pay attention to things like that. I wouldn't bother bashing people. I could really care less if Mel Kiper like's a certain teams draft. Doesn't really mean anything. That's main stream media garbage that has no effect on anything. You look at a draft 5 years after it happened, not the day it ended. Then you find out who had a good draft or bad draft. I think Gabbert is going to be, without question, the best QB from this draft. That's because I think he's the best QB, not because, "Oh, he's in Jacksonville now and he's in a good situation." He has the most upside. He'll be ready to start by mid season, and he should be capable of taking over in year two. As long as he's not having a front office that is constantly changing offensive coordinators or head coaches, then he should be fine.


Quote:
I'll tell you what. Smarts IS at the top for me. If you got a dumb QB, with all the talent in the world, and a QB who is smart, but isn't the most talented, I'd take the latter, all day, every day. ...and mentioning his advancement in schooling isn't about saying "wow, he's so book smart, that's gonna equate to him being successful in the NFL".
Smart is a good quality. I'm not saying it's not, but you need the physical tools first and foremost. Kellen Moore is a smart kid. That's great, but he has the weakest arm I may ever seen. He has no chance. I don't care how smart he is. He's not an NFL QB. He's not. Never will be. Not even a backup. I simply disagree with it being the top priority. Not to say that it isn't important, but if you don't have a strong arm and good accuracy (and you can have everything else, like Jake Locker does), you will fail in the NFL. Locker has everything but accuracy from inside the pocket, and that is critical. All that should go ahead of how smart you are. Ask Brady Quinn. I don't think people are up in arms about Ponder going 12th because they're worried about his intelligence or ability to comprehend a playbook. There's another 1st round QB with that stigma. I was expecting you to come out and praise his strengths as a QB. Talk about how his talents fit into the Vikings scheme. Talk about his accuracy, his anticipation, his timing, his high football I.Q., his ability to read defenses, going through progressions... not that he graduated in 2.5 years.


Quote:
I think he'll get back there if he hasn't already. At this point, it's simply not a concern. Plus, strength is the easiest thing for an athlete to increase... unlike natural born athleticism and hand-eye coordination.
His arm strength shouldn't be a concern per se, but it's not necessarily a strength of his game. Not a huge weakness either, but weak enough to limit him. We disagree.

Quote:
Ummm... not sure where you're going there. I didn't say he's NFL ready, but if that's what you're implying then... okaaay.... I did emphasize that he's at an advantage because his system at FSU is similar to a Pro-style system that has him taking snaps from under center. He won't be held back in the same way the QBs from spread offenses will when it comes to the footwork involved.
NFL drop backs are a learned trait. It takes work and repetition. That's it. Just because some of these guys haven't done it, doesn't mean they are incapable of doing it. Its practice. That's it. The other QBs wont be "held back." Initially? Of course, but in four years no one is going to be talking about Newton's footwork or Gabbert's footwork being the reason for their failure, if they were to fail.



Quote:
Ponder's supporting cast is strong. Strong enough that I perceive it to be a strength and advantage for him to be the best QB to come out of this draft class.
Quote:
The OL has problems that they are trying to correct, but this thread wasn't about Pondering being the best QB in year 1. I'm talking career. Whatever weaknesses they have on the OL today, may not be there later.
These are contradictory. Do you know the state of the Vikings four or five years from now? No, so his supporting cast means nothing other than potential early success. His offensive line, right now, is not very good. What if the Vikings are picking in the top 5 in two years? Is his strong rookie supporting cast going to mean anything? You said it yourself though. Whatever OL problems they have today, may not be there later. Just like whatever strengths they have today, may not be there later. To hang your hat on the talent level of the team that drafts him in that same year... it will not be any precursor for his success. The Falcons were picking in the top 3 when they drafted Ryan. The Falcons were an 11 win playoff team the following year.

Quote:
I never said that Ponder will necessarily go on to be a franchise QB, but I am saying he's going to be the best QB to come out of this draft. Two different things. Subtle, but significant. If he becomes a franchise QB, awesome. I wasn't saying he was or wasn't. I'm saying, don't bash the pick the Vikings made at 12. Their big board is arranged according to 1 team. Theirs. Whatever anyone else may say about them reaching is based on their own perception and their own disregard to risk.
You take a franchise QB at 12. Ponder isn't and wont be a franchise QB. You're saying he's going to be the best QB from this draft, but you're not saying he's going to be a franchise QB? Then what are you saying? Are you saying he's going to be the least worst of the bunch? Is that a compliment? Should the Viking be happy with a completely average QB just because every other QB from this drafted turned out to be garbage? The Vikings are not in competition with the Jaguars, Titans or Panthers as far as having the best QB from this class. It wont really matter if Newton is a perennial Pro Bowler. The Vikings better have drafted their future signal caller for the next 10 to 15 years, and the guy that leads them deep into the playoffs and gives them a chance at a Super Bowl on a regular basis.

That's why I bash their pick. Telling me not to bash it though? I thought you wanted debate? Right? Debate? Should everyone just nod in silence? Have no reaction? If Ponder turns into a Pro Bowl QB that takes Minnesota to the playoffs on a semi-regular basis, then they'll get the last laugh. They'll be right. If Ponder turns into a guy that only manages a couple winning seasons and makes a quick exit in his only playoff appearance, then he's a bust and it's a terrible pick. You don't draft "just another guy" at the QB position in the Top 15, or even the first round entirely.



To have a well reasoned argument you will first have to say what kind of career you are expecting from Ponder. Not some vague comment about him being the best of this QB class. Secondly, you'll have to explain what kind of career you're expecting of the other QBs. Thirdly, you would then have to state why every other QB is not going to be as good as Ponder. That would take a lot of work, but you're the one that made the overly ambitious thread.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-01-2011 at 03:42 PM.
BigBanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 09:43 AM    (permalink
BigJohn98
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,965
Reputation: 13000
BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigJohn98 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
It's baffling that teams can sit down and watch Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett on film and take the two formers over the latter. Ponder played like crap his entire career. He's gotten by completely on his reputation as a top recruit. His supporting cast at Florida State was probably better than what the other QBs in this draft were working with, and he failed consistently.

Maybe he's Josh Freeman...even if he is, Mallett is still better. Ponder seemed like one of those guys you draft in the 3rd or 4th round who might turn into something more than a good backup. JD Booty (good call), Erik Ainge, Kevin O'Connell, etc.

I had him #7
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton
10. Devlin
I can tell you've never watched him or read anything about him. Played like crap his whole career? Are you serious? Maybe his sophomore year, where it was his first year starting, but he was having a Heisman-type season in 2009 until he got hurt. He's never had a great supporting cast. His receivers have been average and inconsistent since he was the starter. And he was never a top recruit coming out of high school.

Actually watch someone play before posting a bunch of dumb ****.
BigJohn98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 10:20 AM    (permalink
nepg
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,497
Reputation: 1534391
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn98 View Post
I can tell you've never watched him or read anything about him. Played like crap his whole career? Are you serious? Maybe his sophomore year, where it was his first year starting, but he was having a Heisman-type season in 2009 until he got hurt. He's never had a great supporting cast. His receivers have been average and inconsistent since he was the starter. And he was never a top recruit coming out of high school.

Actually watch someone play before posting a bunch of dumb ****.
ROFL at the Heisman comment.

*20 minutes later - finally recovered from laughing enough to type again*

Ponder looked really bad at times throughout his career. There's no getting around it. He was a solid college QB, but nothing special. Average everything and injury prone. He's the 7th-best QB in this draft and for good reason.

And he was the #14 QB recruit in a class that included Bradford, Juice Williams, Stafford, Mustain, Freeman, Devlin, McElroy, Riley, and Potts. Considering that company, I'd say he's a fairly highly regarded recruit.
__________________
nepg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 10:53 AM    (permalink
Rabscuttle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Reputation: 194866
Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

He needs to be more selective with some of his throws, but he has an understanding of the game that neither Newton or Locker have. He holds the back seven with his eyes, does a good job of not getting his receivers killed and gives his receivers a chance to make plays.

He needs to get the ball out sooner to have success on Sundays, both for getting the ball to receivers as they come open and for his own longevity.

The arm is fine for most situations and is accurate, his mechanics and footwork are good, just needs to read what's in front of him that split second sooner.
Rabscuttle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 11:02 AM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,847
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
I understand they are your own thoughts. I was alluding to the fact that the Vikings probably wanted Ponder in round 2, or to trade up / down in the 20s of round 1 and take him at better "value." Instead, they seen the run on QBs -- 3 in the Top 10 -- and panicked, which is something they have a history of doing (reaching to fill a position of need). They probably (and yes, I'm just guessing) felt like the Redskins or someone behind them would draft Ponder. Instead of getting a Top 10 caliber player at 12th overall, now they hit the panic button and draft a second round QB (in my opinion 3rd or 4th round QB), because they NEED a QB. So, basically I'm saying, "They took a shot in the dark." Which is what I feel you were doing with this thread... taking a shot in the dark.

Like I said... they have a board arranged for one team. Their own. Doesn't make it wrong or panic at all if they took they guy they rated the highest according to their needs. Why is it labeled "panic" instead of "smart"? Why do they have to risk their guy getting taken? Say Ponder goes... then are they smart for missing on him because the value wasn't right according to some imaginary board of the masses? That's ridiculous! They got their guy. A guy who had a lot more to offer compared to what was left. That's not panic. That's safe and smart.

I was saying that it seemed like you were jumping on their ship because everyone was saying this was one of the worst picks in the draft. Which you admitted to doing:

Yeah, and I disagreed with those saying it was wrong.

I was implying, without saying it directly, that I felt you gave a weak argument and were taking the Vikings side just for the sake of taking their side. Not because you necessarily believe Ponder will be a good NFL QB, which you also admitted to doing. When I see this response, I assume that's all this was. Just defending the minority.

Nah. I believe in everything that I said. I took it up to voice my opinion even though it's not a popular thought. Your assumptions need correction, so here I am clarifying it for you.


Again, more towards my original point. I didn't feel any sense of emotion behind your original post. If felt like you were thinking, "Well, since no one else is defending him, I guess I will." I've never heard someone mention a player's looks either, so it felt like you were reaching for reasons.

Well, now you can tell that you were wrong. I strongly believe in my words in the original post. ...and there's plenty of logic to support the reason why I listed his "looks". Not a reach. Just something that goes overlooked by many, including you.

I don't give grades on drafts personally and I don't pay attention to things like that, so I wouldn't bother bashing people. I could really care less if Mel Kiper like's a certain teams draft. Doesn't mean anything. It's main stream media garbage that has no effect on anything. You look at a draft 5 years after it happened, not the day it ended. Then you find out who had a good draft or bad draft. I think Gabbert is going to be, without question, the best QB from this draft. That's because I think he's the best QB, not because, "Oh, he's in Jacksonville now." He has the most upside. He'll be ready to start to by mid season to get his feet wet, and should be capable of taking over in year two. As long as he's not having a front office that is constantly changing offensive coordinators or head coaches, then he should be fine.



Smart is a good quality. I'm not saying it's not, but you need the physical tools first and foremost. Kellen Moore is a smart kid. That's great, but he has the weakest arm I may ever seen. He has no chance. I don't care how smart he is. He's not an NFL QB. He's not. Never will be. Not even a backup. I simply disagree with it being the top priority. Not to say that it isn't important, but if you don't have a strong arm and good accuracy, then you can have everything else, which Jake Locker does, and still fail in the NFL. Locker has everything but accuracy from inside the pocket, and that is critical. All that should go ahead of how smart you are. I don't think people are up in arms about Ponder going 12th because they're worried about his intelligence or ability to comprehend a playbook. There's another 1st round QB with that stigma. I was expecting you to come out and praise his strengths as a QB. Talk about how his talents fit into the Vikings scheme. Talk about his accuracy, his anticipation, his timing, his high football I.Q., his ability to read defenses, going through progressions... not that he graduated in 2.5 years.

Well Ponder is smart and talented. ...and the talent over smarts or smarts over talent is more situationally unique than anything. Obviously Bill Gates is not gonna be a better football player just because he might be smart.

His arm strength shouldn't be a concern per se, but it's not necessarily the strength of his game. We disagree.


NFL drop backs are a learned trait. It takes work and repetition. That's it. Just because some of these guys haven't done it, doesn't mean they are incapable of doing it. Its practice. That's it. The other QBs wont be "held back." Initially? Of course, but in four years no one is going to be talking about Newton's footwork or Gabbert's footwork as being the reason for their failure, if they were to fail.

...and I said Ponder has a head start.




These are contradictory. Do you know the state of the Vikings four years from now? No, so his supporting cast means nothing other than potential early success, and his offensive line, right now, is not very good. What if the Vikings are picking in the top 5 in two years? Is his strong rookie supporting cast going to mean anything? You said it yourself though. Whatever OL problems they have today, may not be there later. Just like whatever strengths they have today, may not be there later. To hang your hat on the talent level of the team that drafts him in that same year, will not be any precursor for his success. The Falcons were picking in the top 3 when they drafted Ryan. The Falcons were an 11 win playoff team his rookie year.

It's not contradictory at all. I don't know what's difficult to understand that having a strong supporting cast doesn't necessarily mean there are no weaknesses. Do I really need to explain this further?

You take a franchise QB at 12. Ponder isn't and wont be a franchise QB. Saying he's going to be the best QB from this draft, but not saying he's going to be a franchise QB? Then what are you saying? Are you saying he's going to be least worst of the bunch? Is that a compliment? Should the Viking be happy with a completely average QB just because every other QB from this drafted turned out to be garbage? The Vikings are not in competition with Jags, Titans or Panthers as far as having the best QB from this class. The Vikings better have drafted their future signal caller for the next ten years, and the guy that leads them deep into the playoffs and gives them a chance at a Super Bowl.

I gotta run. I'll answer this later. Thanks for the fun debate though. This is exactly what I like. :)

That's why I will bash their pick. Telling me not to bash it though? I thought you wanted debate? Wright? Debate? Should everyone just nod in silence? Have no reaction? If Ponder turns into a Pro Bowl QB that takes Minnesota to the playoffs on a semi-regular basis, then they'll get the last laugh. They'll be right. If Ponder turns into a guy that only manages a couple winning seasons and makes a quick exit in his only playoff appearance, then he's a bust and it's a terrible pick. You don't draft "just another guy" at the QB position in the Top 15, or even the first round entirely.



To have a well reasoned thread you will first have to say what kind of career you are expecting from Ponder. Not some vague comment about him being the best of this QB class. Secondly, you would then have to state why every other QB is not going to be as good as Ponder. That would take a lot of work, but you're the one that made the overly ambitious thread.
Answers in bold. Be back later when I get a chance to relax on the comp.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 11:15 AM    (permalink
FuzzyGopher
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Unicorn Enthusiast
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 704462
FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FuzzyGopher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
It's baffling that teams can sit down and watch Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett on film and take the two formers over the latter. Ponder played like crap his entire career. He's gotten by completely on his reputation as a top recruit. His supporting cast at Florida State was probably better than what the other QBs in this draft were working with, and he failed consistently.

Maybe he's Josh Freeman...even if he is, Mallett is still better. Ponder seemed like one of those guys you draft in the 3rd or 4th round who might turn into something more than a good backup. JD Booty (good call), Erik Ainge, Kevin O'Connell, etc.

I had him #7
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton
10. Devlin
I'll agree that Mallet is probably the better pure quarterback out of all of those guys but he obviously had some serious character concerns. Also, Ponder wasn't a top recruit, he was a 3 star player and Florida State only gave him a scholarship at the last minute when Tebow chose to go to Florida instead.
__________________
FuzzyGopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.