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Old 06-26-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Not one person in this thread who is pro-Julio trade has answered how one rookie receiver with a high ceiling (whom I absolutely loved as a prospect) is better than 5 picks, especially with a team with so many needs, especially on the defensive side. Until that happens, I won't post again in this thread/

This is Halsey's cue to completely miss the point and redirect the argument.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Not one person in this thread who is pro-Julio trade has answered how one rookie receiver with a high ceiling (whom I absolutely loved as a prospect) is better than 5 picks.
I didn't know we had to? I guess you could call me pro-Julio, but why does that mean I have to say he's better then 5 picks? All I know is 5 picks sounds better then any 1 player before you know what those picks were gonna amount to. You could easily go back in past and find examples where teams would have landed pro bowlers with all 5 picks, and you could just as easily find teams who wish they had gave up 5 picks for Calvin or Andre while they were blowing other picks.


I already said they gave up 2 much, but I don't think that means I have to come up with an argument as to why he's better then 5 picks. I do think he'll make STL regret not trading up(at a much cheaper cost).
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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You agree they gave up too much, so it isn't really addressing you. I agree STL should have traded up for him (although Quinn isn't a bad consolation). But I don't understand how it is possible to justify this trade. You could look back in the future and Cleveland could have blown every pick. That doesn't make the trade any better at the time. It's possible that Atlanta could have given up 8 picks and it still would have worked out better for them, but it doesn't mean that it is justifiable. Maybe the ends will justify the means, but I highly doubt it. If it works out better in the long run, Atlanta got ******* lucky because the odds aren't with them that 1 player will be better than 5.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Not one person in this thread who is pro-Julio trade has answered how one rookie receiver with a high ceiling (whom I absolutely loved as a prospect) is better than 5 picks, especially with a team with so many needs, especially on the defensive side.
One effective way to improve the defense is to keep them off the field.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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One effective way to improve the defense is to keep them off the field.
Another effective way is to add more players to your defense while still adding talent to offense.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Yea but this isn't the most anyone has ever paid. The Saints paid twice this amount for a RB. Turns out Ditka knew what he saw because he was looking at a HOF RB, yet he still felt that 1 RB was worth more then all those picks.


I don't think it's just always so cut and dry that 4>1 or whatever. GM's/coaches take calculated risk at times that sometimes pan out, sometimes don't. For as much as Greg Little was brought up in this thread we have no clue if ATL even liked him, or if he's gonna pan out himself. He has played WR for like, 5 games or so? On top of missing an entire season.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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My opinion on the matter is, it was a great trade for Atlanta but they also gave up far too much...if that makes sense.

Dimitroff identified 2 players(Julio and AJ Green) who he thought were the missing pieces to make this offense both explosive and elite. He failed at getting Green so got Julio. I agree with the premise that one of those WRs will greatly improve the Falcons offense. What Jones forces defenses to do is respect him as a threat. By doubling Roddy White or rolling coverage to his side, opposing defense could then also load the box to stop Michael Turner. In doing this they were able to effectively slow down the running attack, the best WR option and also it negatively affected Tony Gonzalez as there were more defenders in the box to cover him.

By adding another legitimate threat opposite Roddy White defense can no longer play this way.

As some of the Falcons fans have pointed out thus far in this thread, their offense was based around a ball control style through Turner with Roddy White as really the only threat outside. Julio Jones SHOULD allow them to expand upon their current playbook.

Now the downside to the trade is obvious. Regardless of the number of picks they gave up, they had bigger needs. If this trade was made for Robert Quinn to play DE then I wonder what the reaction would be. If Patrick Peterson had fallen another selection how would the critics have felt? How about Nick Fairley to play DT?

Defensively the Falcons are a very average team. They could use at least one DE and possibly a DT depending on Peria Jerry's development. In most people's opinion there were two extremely highly rated players at those positions available when the Falcons made their trade.

All in all, it was obvious that the Falcons felt they were one blue chip player away from contending for the Superbowl regularly. And this is a passing league. With Ryan, White, Jones, Turner, Quizz etc on offense for at least the next few years they should be a good team offensively, however on defense they will continually struggle. Maybe they feel they will win the majority of their shootouts.


When looking at the facts and just on what we know now this looks a very poor trade for the Falcons and it may well turn out to be so. I think I like it because it seems to be the anti-Belichick thing to do, which is strange coming from a Belichick disciple in Dimitroff, and even stranger because Belichick has had great success overall in the draft. Instead of manipulating the draft to get pieces who fit in and should all make contributions, Dimitroff saw a player he loved, a player he thought was the key, and ripped up his value chart to get him. As a Pats fans watching players like Robert Quinn fall so close and not have them trade up was excrutiating so I guess that's why I like it.

The Falcons showed an incredible amount of balls to do this and only time will tell whether it was worth it, and my instinct says it will end up that it was. On pure value and numbers??? No it wasn't close to being a good trade for Atlanta.
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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On pure value and numbers??? No it wasn't close to being a good trade for Atlanta.
Yup, which was what I originally posted about. No one knows what exactly Julio will do with the Falcons. So arguing about that, and the countless other "arguments" brought up in this thread, is irrelevant.
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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If Julio blows up and becomes better than anything the Falcons could have done with those 5 picks, then they trade looks good. But at the time, the odds are against it, and if I'm a GM I would probably play the odds as much as possible. It is a really ballsy trade, and it shows that the Falcons are serious, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, not buying the 'Greg Little is just as good as Julio' talk. Julio is faster, more mature, more productive and better coached in college than Little.



Read this and recognize a talent of yours: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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If Julio blows up and becomes better than anything the Falcons could have done with those 5 picks, then they trade looks good. But at the time, the odds are against it, and if I'm a GM I would probably play the odds as much as possible. It is a really ballsy trade, and it shows that the Falcons are serious, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
Half of them probably bust and the other 2 or 3 will have one good player from them. That's how the draft works.

Look at what the Saints gave up for Ricky Williams and tell me how much the Redskins actually got out of it. They got Lavar Arrington and Champ Bailey, who they traded.
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I have no idea why Williams is brought up. That was a ******* terrible trade too. What the Redskins did with it is irrelevant. "The Redskins made bad picks so that means the Browns will too!"

So your argument for trading lots of picks for Jones is that they probably would have ****** up on those other picks anyway, got it.
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Not one person in this thread who is pro-Julio trade has answered how one rookie receiver with a high ceiling (whom I absolutely loved as a prospect) is better than 5 picks, especially with a team with so many needs, especially on the defensive side. Until that happens, I won't post again in this thread/

This is Halsey's cue to completely miss the point and redirect the argument.
Obviously 5 picks sounds better and very well may end up better/useful. I'll pose it to you like this though. How many of those 5 picks do you think have the instant ability to drastically alter our offense the way we all expect Julio to?

As far as the "so many needs" part, you lost me. Don't get me wrong, we are far from a perfect team, but as far as massive gaping holes? It was a #2 WR and an impact pass rusher. If we don't acquire a pass rusher in free agency, I'll agree that this move lacked proper foresight. As TACKLE posed before, name an impact pass rusher that would have been available to us at 27 or 44. A major part of making the move up was that the Falcons correctly predicted that none of the defensive ends they truly wanted would be there.



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Another effective way is to add more players to your defense while still adding talent to offense.
Kind of eluding to what I said before, our defense isn't horrendous. People like to think it is because of how badly the Packers made us look, but at points it was actually even lauded, especially for the stoutness in the run game. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's an average defense.

And Sativa or BBD (maybe even both) I think said it perfectly before. This is what Mike Smith can hang his hat on. The fact that he gives his defenses a tough, hard working, blue collar, etc. personality and has the ability to work with deficient pieces.
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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This still doesn't make sense to me. Obviously they assumed they wouldn't get the end they wanted at 27, or they weren't in love with anyone in the second round. They probably wouldn't have gotten the instant impact they expect from Julio from those picks. That being said, they are expecting a lot from a rookie receiver. That is hard to bank on. Trading 5 picks for a rookie receiver will never make sense to me, and I do love Julio (one of my favorite prospects in the draft). They could get a receiver in FA and an impact rusher that they could have traded up for without giving up next years draft too. There are a billion other things they could feasibly have done with those same resources that would have been better. If Falcons fans are fine with this trade, whatever. It is a very, very risky trade, and I think it's terrible, but if you are fine with it, good luck. I have mainly kept posting in this thread to argue these stupid ******* posts that many members keep putting out there. But if your rationale is good enough for you, I can't argue it, because there isn't really anything that is going to convince me that 5 picks is worth a rookie receiver. There also isn't going to be anything that is going to sway your belief either.
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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This still doesn't make sense to me. Obviously they assumed they wouldn't get the end they wanted at 27, or they weren't in love with anyone in the second round. They probably wouldn't have gotten the instant impact they expect from Julio from those picks. That being said, they are expecting a lot from a rookie receiver. That is hard to bank on. Trading 5 picks for a rookie receiver will never make sense to me, and I do love Julio (one of my favorite prospects in the draft). They could get a receiver in FA and an impact rusher that they could have traded up for without giving up next years draft too. There are a billion other things they could feasibly have done with those same resources that would have been better. If Falcons fans are fine with this trade, whatever. It is a very, very risky trade, and I think it's terrible, but if you are fine with it, good luck. I have mainly kept posting in this thread to argue these stupid ******* posts that many members keep putting out there. But if your rationale is good enough for you, I can't argue it, because there isn't really anything that is going to convince me that 5 picks is worth a rookie receiver. There also isn't going to be anything that is going to sway your belief either.

To be fair, they did apparently inquire about moving into the teens, but were met with little interest.

And to be fair, I don't even love the trade or anything like that. The only reason I don't hate it/defend it is because I'm hoping the Falcons follow through on a plan. Obviously if the offensive strategy remains the same, we fail to occupy needs throughout FA, Julio isn't the player they thought ("Nobody in our organization feared bust or even mediocrity with Julio."-Dimitroff), the move leaves me baffled. In keeping with the fairness, I suppose I give the trade some more leeway due to the success Dimitroff has had in building the team.
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Old 06-26-2011, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Julio is going to be a monster.

/chiming in.

Also, for our resources, we still picked up some decent impact via the draft. Dent will be a starter or in the two-deep at the minimum, 'Quizz will be in the back rotation, Bosher will likely start, Mattews will have a shot at end. This class will make an impact, without any doubt. And there have been a many drafts that made no impact at all, despite a high volume of picks.
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Old 06-26-2011, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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There have been many drafts that have made no impact at all, but these late round picks will without any doubt whatsoever.
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Old 06-27-2011, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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I already said they gave up 2 much, but I don't think that means I have to come up with an argument as to why he's better then 5 picks. I do think he'll make STL regret not trading up(at a much cheaper cost).
This is the second or third time that I have read this statement. The Rams were in no way going to trade up to the 6th spot for anybody, especially a wideout, no matter who it was.

This would have cost us 3 or maybe even 4 picks and would not have been feasible at all.

We simply have too many holes to fill and need every pick we can muster at this point in time.

Also, some have said that they heard Billy Devaney say in a radio interview that he was looking to trade up or something to that effect. Heh!! That's really kinda funny, lol.

There is no one better at blowing smoke during and after the draft time, and I wouldn't put a bit of credence in anything Billy Devaney says about the Rams draft board and/or plans.

He simply never divulges information and, actually, usually puts out lots of disinformation.

And, finally, I am very glad that we stayed put at #14 and got a prospect like Robert Quinn, who should have gone earlier in the draft.

Now that is value and that is what we need to build the Rams into a playoff caliber team.

We need more picks like that and stay away from outlandish and ludicrous trades like the Falcons did.
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Old 06-27-2011, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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This is the second or third time that I have read this statement. The Rams were in no way going to trade up to the 6th spot for anybody, especially a wideout, no matter who it was.

Where did I ever say they would? Or that they were thinking about it? I just said that I think Julio is gonna be good enough he'd make STL regret not trading up. That remains to be seen, and it's not like I'm using alot of evidence to suggest so.


That said, Salas and Pettis are much better fits for McDaniels' offense anyway, but down the line I do think they'll wish they had.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, not buying the 'Greg Little is just as good as Julio' talk. Julio is faster, more mature, more productive and better coached in college than Little.
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Not one person said this in the entire thread. You really are too dumb to argue with.
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Greg Little woulda been just as good for that role

Learn to read, prick. ;)
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Learn to read, prick. ;)
Sorry, but he said Greg Little would have been just as good of an option at #2 wide receiver, hence "in that role". Good try though, at least you're attempting reading comprehension now.
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, but he said Greg Little would have been just as good of an option at #2 wide receiver, hence "in that role". Good try though, at least you're attempting reading comprehension now.
But he clearly wouldn't be. Julio Jones is the Falcon's attempt to get Isaac Bruce/Torry Holt 2.0. Jones will start as the #2 and then eventually become the #1. Greg Little was an inferior prospect to 'fill that role'.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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But he clearly wouldn't be. Julio Jones is the Falcon's attempt to get Isaac Bruce/Torry Holt 2.0. Jones will start as the #2 and then eventually become the #1. Greg Little was an inferior prospect to 'fill that role'.
His point was that the trade seemed like a win-now trade, with Jones to be the #2 which Little would have also been.
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:57 AM    (permalink
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I will retract slightly...Little would be for all intents and purposes be just about as good Julio for a #2 wr role opposite a stud and established #1 reciever in his prime. The value with Julio is as a #1 reciever and that value will be diminished cause Atlanta already has a young #1. It would be like Cleveland trading up from the 20's into the top 6, giving up a future first rounder, to get a stud left tackle prospect to fill their hole at right tackle. That trade would be equally stupid.
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