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Old 04-23-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
YotoJets007
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If Jets stay put at 16 then whoever is taken in it could be a reach. I will want to trade up and get one that will play right away. I like to see Jets make a small trade to move up few spots to get ahead of Chiefs, Cowboys and Seahawks for Mark Barron.

I know king's ransom is only the way to get Trent Richardson but the draft is not underway so we have no idea what package will it be to trade up and get Trent Richardson or Melvin Ingram. Only those two players Jets "rigorously" trade up for in media.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/04/2...interest-list/

As of April 20th. I am disappointed to learn that Deshawn Shead is not one of them. grrr!!

I find the list a quite interesting. A bunch of local and small school players are on the list. It looks like Jets plan to poach lesser players for late round or UDFA as Jets would aggressively burn good picks to move up in the 1st round or 2nd round picks.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Okay. So I have a bunch of random thoughts that I'll put down. To me, it's great that the NFL prohibits you from trading your compensatory picks. That way Tannenbaum can't just throw them away like he usually does. They might not make great picks, but at the very least it would be nice for them to bring in some young, athletic bodies for depth purposes.

Our needs, IMO, are OLB, S, OT, WR, and RB. Of those, I believe WR, S, and OLB are essential, but not necessarily things that need to be addressed first in the draft. We are, however, in a strange transition because of the run-heavy offense, so they might not see WR as a big issue. In my mind, WR might be more important than any other position, as they could hypothetically find stop-gaps at the other areas of need. With WR, in a worst case scenario, I would venture to say we have no viable starting receivers. Kerley really would only be effective in the slot. Holmes could theoretically separate himself from the team once more, and it's clear already that his heart isn't really in the right place. We could very easily be seeing him on a different team after this season. So to me, WR is of the greatest importance, but they probably don't see it that way.

One thing I find kind of funny is how transparent our FO is. Tannenbaum tries so hard to say exactly the opposite of what he really is thinking that he actually ends up making himself easier to read. He's just a bad liar and doesn't deal with pressure very well. It, however, is very sad that even as late as we are picking in the draft, and with our player personnel moves in general, team reps as well as the media can fairly easily depict what the Jets will do in a given situation. Hopefully the Jets are a little different this year in the draft, but we'll see.

I feel like we will, at best, only have two selections on the first two days. I think it's almost a lock for us to be trading up at some point.

I also think it's interesting because lately I've been hearing a lot about BPA from Cimini and others as far as what the Jets are doing, and I think Tannenbaum even said that they always try to do that. But honestly, I don't really remember a recent draft where we didn't go with the position of need. If they actually valued the BPA philosophy, there 1) wouldn't be such a need to trade up all the time, and 2) they'd probably be a lot better off.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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So these are the players that we've been mildly linked to that I want to discuss a little more. Feel free to pick things apart.

Whitney Mercilus - OLB - Illinois - Isn't that a great name for a pass rusher? I'm worried about his ability in space, but I love his motor. He never seems to stop, much more so than any other OLB prospect I saw. Just talking on the hybrid OLB guys in general, I saw the VP of scouting say they look at instincts, arm length, athleticism, and intelligence. With him, I worry about the instincts as a possible deterrant, but he really knows how to get after the QB. He's probably not well rounded enough for them, but I love his character and I really like how vicious he is finishing plays.

Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Virginia - IMO, he's the best pass rusher in the draft. He's ferocious. He's the fastest to the QB with terrific explosiveness off the snap and his combine numbers back it up. If what we were really looking for was a pass rusher, we'd go after him. I worry about his checkered past, the fact that he doesn't seem incredibly intelligent, and the recent charge he had, but if he could get past those things, I feel like he's far and away the best pure pass rusher. He doesn't have a lot of moves but he's just so fast that with some coaching I don't think anyone could stay in front of him. He would be a liability in coverage, but would it honestly matter if they have no time to throw?

Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama - I honestly don't think we're looking at him, judging by what they've been saying publicly, and I don't think he's very good either. He was, at best, the third best player on that defense. He has not explosion whatsoever, is pretty slow in space, can't cover, can't really rush the QB... he's pretty decent against the run though. He would be a solid contributor, and it's funny that he's being compared to Bryan Thomas because that's what I saw in him a while back, but I really think there are better options.

Dont'a Hightower - LB - Alabama - He's the better option. He's about the same size as Upshaw and gives you the versatility of using him inside. He's pretty good in coverage, great against the run, and for my money the pass rusher on that Alabama defense. He's just nasty and he moves much better around the field. I don't really see a problem with him playing on the outside.

Michael Floyd - WR - Notre Dame - We probably wouldn't trade up for him, but to me, he's the best receiver in the draft. I love his jump ball ability. His off-field issues are a concern, but I don't think he was ever a problem on the field. I doubt we draft him, but I think he will be very good.

Trent Richardson - RB - Alabama - He's a very good runningback, but I hate drafting RBs in the first. I'm pretty picky about RBs (I didn't really care for Greene or McKnight at the time of the draft), but I think he's going to be a good one. I always liked him more than Ingram. But again, I hate drafting RBs in the first. Trading up for one would seem to be even worse of an idea, unless you're getting a franchise maker (which with him I'm not sure you get). We could do far worse though, so I wouldn't really mind, as long as they don't trade the house for him.

Stephen Hill - WR - Georgia Tech - I really like him. I think he's coming from the perfect scenario that would make him fit right into our new offense. Beyond production, he would seem to have everything that we could possibly want in a receiver. He's got the size, the speed, and the blocking ability, and he's really the only receiver in the draft that offers that repertoire. Watching him in interviews he seems to have fantastic character. Not really sure why he chose Ga Tech, but I'm going to assume he was a late blossomer. It really sounds like they have their mind set on taking defense in the first, but I can still dream. I think he's going to be good.

Melvin Ingram - OLB - South Carolina - Well, if we'll have our way, Ingram is going to be with the Jets. Rex just loves him too much and they've made that very apparent. I just find it interesting that he sees him as his Adalius Thomas, but AT was maybe the fourth best player on the defense he was on, maybe even less. I would think we would need a feared pass rusher, which Ingram is not. People have made a big deal of his athleticism, which he does have, but he doesn't have explosion. He just isn't a natural pass rusher. He may put up decent sack totals, but he can't impose his will on an opposing offense. His value is in his versatility, which I feel like the Jets sometimes get a little too caught up in. It is nice that he can do a lot of things for you, but if he doesn't do any one thing great, I don't know if that's worth a first rounder, especially when it doesn't fill the real need at the position. I think he would be good for us, but just not necessarily what we should be going after. He seems like a high character guy as well, so he could really grow into being an integral part of our defense for years to come.

Some 2nd or 3rd day guys...

RB
Chris Polk, Washington - So I live in Washington and I've seen Polk play. He's really good. We seem to need a power back though, so he's probably not what they're looking at.
LaMichael James, Oregon - However, if they do look to a smaller, quicker back, James is great. I see him going somewhere where he can fill a role, like with the Patriots, but I think he's pretty talented.
Robert Turbin, Utah St. - I don't know how well he'll transition, but he's probably the only power back worth mentioning since I don't think Doug Martin will really be in our range to draft.

WR
Brian Quick, App. St. - Outside of Blackmon, Floyd, and Hill, this is my top receiver. He's deceptively fast and has some good hands. He can do a little bit of everything and he's a big guy. The competition is a worry, but fine players have come out of the program before.
Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers - I'm only really mentioning him because he said he would rather plays for the Jets than the Giants. He's good, but nothing special. I don't think he's big enough, or conversely, fast enough, to really stand out. Nothing more than an average possession receiver, but I feel like many Jets fans will be pining for him because of the Jersey ties.
Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma - I'm assuming he's going on the third day, and if he does, and he recovers, he will be a steal. Probably doesn't fit in with us, but he's a very good receiver.

OLB
Vinny Curry, Marshall - I don't really know if he can play OLB, but I like his pass rush ability. He's probably better suited in a 4-3.

S
Harrison Smith, Notre Dame - He's actually kind of awkward moving around, but at the same time, he seems pretty fast. I can't explain it. I like his work ethic and his nose for the ball, and I think he would be best suited as a centerfielder, which just so happens to be what we need.

So, based on what we seem to truly need from a skillset standpoint at positions of need, the players I would think we should most covet would be...
Bruce Irvin
Stephen Hill
Harrison Smith
Dont'a Hightower
Trent Richardson

The players I would shy away from would be...
Quentin Coples
Dontari Poe
Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Andre Branch
Mike Adams
Kendall Wright
Alshon Jeffery
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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If Jets plan to trade up then the prospect will be a starter that fills a need. I am not sure about RB being a priority need with Tannebaum being a fan of McKnight and Powell but they are pushable down.

OLB in Ryan system is rarely utilized as a cover man. That is why Ryan loves to have a bunch of secondary players on the roster. Having OLB with coverage skill will help S to roam around freely. Unfortunately, OLB with coverage skill is still a rare. That is why it does not make any sense to draft OLB without good coverage skill in the first round. Ingram offers more fluidity in open space but he is only good at shoot gap like Wade Phillips system.

If Jets trade up for Ingram then Pettine has to modify the defense to make Ingram a worthy to invest in.



Panthers media suggests that Ingram wont fit and he belongs to 3-4 OLB so Jets may not have to make a great leap to get him. Tim Fugger as a demon pass rusher. It definitely sounds cooler than Whitney Merilcus.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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One guy that I think is pretty interesting is Shea McClellin. I don't really know where to place him. I heard he had several concussions in college, and sometimes he seems to get completely washed out. However, of all the OLB prospects, he seems to easily be the most fluid, even if the numbers don't necessarily support that. He seems to get around the edge with the greatest of ease and his penetration seems to be consistent with someone of the levels of Irvin opposed to an Ingram, Upshaw, or Perry. He also had more experience covering skill position players than most. I would say that he might even have a Clay Matthews sort of meteoric rise. Not sure how much interest we have in him though.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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TTGS, a few thoughts on your thoughts. From the first post, the BPA point is interesting, and to an extent I agree. I have a feeling they take the BPA on their board, but modify their board to fit needs. At the same time some picks (like the Kyle Wilson one with Revis on the roster and having just traded a 2nd for Cro) kind of seem to be BPA picks.

Mercilus I'm coming around on a bit. The first couple of times I watched him I saw a guy who picked up a bunch of coverage sacks, wasn't always the best player on the defensive front, got stood up on contact, was ineffective against the run, and was a stiff, linear athlete. But like you said he's got a tremendous motor, is a good athlete, and just finds his way to the quarterback. The one year wonder thing is a bit of a concern, but sack production seems to translate pretty well from college to the pros and he was both productive and a great athlete. Now he was told to pin his ears back and go after the QB a bunch and will need some development in terms of technique and learning to set the edge, but the production and athleticism is a really interesting package.

Sidebar, I actually think Mercilus may be the pick so to an extent I might be trying to talk myself into liking him a little bit. The comment you cited above about the front office looking for arm length, athleticism, intelligence, and instincts in OLB's has me thinking that the Ingram thing might be a bit of a smokescreen. He's going to fit in three of those areas, but is a huge question mark in terms of arm length. You run the risk that he's going to get engulfed by bigger tackles, and the fact that he was more productive going against guards is a concern. He's a great fit as a chess piece you move all over the place, but if they're looking for a pass rusher he's not the guy IMO. Maybe 8 sacks a year at the absolute most. Mercilus fits the criteria they're looking for more, you could argue that while his overall instincts aren't great he did have good instincts for getting to the QB. There's a lot of upside there too. I can just see them explaining the pick: "We felt Whitney was the best pass rusher in the draft. He was highly productive in a good conference, and we've frequently seen that sacks are a statistic that translate well from the college game to the NFL. Additionally he has not been playing football as long as many players in this draft, so we feel his overall upside is enormous. Right now we have some veterans we are happy with in Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace and we feel they can help bring him along as he transitions to a new position along with Aaron Maybin who we feel has a bright future with this team. We're excited that Whitney is a Jet." Plus they love Big Ten players for whatever reason, seem to draft guys early who have both production in college and athleticism, and have a lot of faith in their defensive coaches to get the most out of players and help develop them. Mercilus seems like he's got a good work ethic too, and Cimini recently tossed out there that they like him. I bet he finds his way onto that final prospect list that Cimini puts out. And on top of it all this would mean they're smokescreening on Ingram but this leaks out late when Cimini writes about it, and taking Mercilus at 16 is almost like trading up for him because he'll almost certainly be on the board and considered a reach. It'll be BPA for them and they can keep their day 2 picks to address safety and WR. I could be wrong, but I think this is the pick.

Anyway back to replying to your post, I do like Irvin and think he's got a lot of upside. If I'm remembering right I think he played safety at some point so he probably could develop in coverage, he certainly has the speed and agility to do that really well. My one concern with him is he's really, really undersized and probably has no chance of starting right off the bat. He'll be a liability against the run almost guaranteed which Rex can't like and more or less he's Aaron Maybin with better movement skills and upside. Nice player, but seems a bit redundant on the roster.

Upshaw I agree, and I actually think he's worse than Bryan Thomas because Thomas is really good in coverage and I don't think Upshaw will offer anything there. I don't think they like him and I certainly hope they don't like him. Interestingly enough if 7 of their 8 OLB's on their board played DE in college, only one of Upshaw/Hightower can be on their board. I'd guess Hightower, but who knows.

With Floyd I love him on the field, but the toughness concerns bother me. Additionally he does seem to be a straight line athlete, but I think that can be overcome. He probably won't be available anyway. Richardson is awesome, but he won't be there and I'm not sure you trade up for him. If you do you're basically conceding that Tebow's going to be the starter, or you think he's the missing piece and you're comfortable with guys stepping up at WR, your two worst starters last year becoming passable players or somebody magically becoming better than them on the roster, and Bryan Thomas's health. He's an awesome player though.

Hill and Ingram I agree on, and I've been saying the exact same thing about Hill being a fit because he's big, fast, and blocks. I don't think they like Hill though, and they might like Ingram for the reasons you stated or not like him for the reasons you stated. Right now I lean not, but reserve the right to change my mind.

Polk I like though he seems to take a little while to get going. Once he does he's pretty fast though. James I think would be a nice addition to get a dynamic home run hitter, something that I think is needed on this offense because right now there's no big play threats anywhere. If he could be Leon Washington esque that'd be sweet, and I think he could. And I'm not sure they need a power back, but I do like Turbin.

Quick I like, 'Canes and I drafted him in the forum mock. Big, athletic, can move after the catch and run block. I worry that he's raw and might not be a starting caliber guy this year because of it, but he's interesting. Sanu I love and I think in the right situation he's a really good player as a #2 across from a dynamic #1 receiver. Somewhere like Houston I think he'd thrive. Not here though, he'll catch some short passes but I think a deep threat is needed for Holmes to have success. Great blocker though. Agreed on Broyles too, think he'll be a steal but don't like the fit.

Curry I like and I think with his agility he might be able to stand up. Think they'll address it in the first though so it won't be an issue. Smith I like too but I don't think he'll be around, I'd prefer a safety who's better in man too. Interestingly I saw Tony Pauline say their top 5 safeties in order are Barron, Smith, Brandon Taylor, Iloka, and Trenton Robinson. I'd guess they pop Taylor in the 2nd if they really love him, if not and he's there in the 3rd I think he's a logical pick (assuming they hold onto both/either of those picks). McClellin's interesting because he's so fluid and was a good pass rusher, I think he's getting a little overhyped though and don't like him at 16. Not the best fit either if they're looking for a pure pass rusher, although his versatility would be nice. We'll see what happens.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Forum Mock (Derza and I)

1.16 Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
2.47 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3.77 Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State
5.154 Andrew Datko OT, Florida State
6.187 Adrian Hamilton, OLB, Prairie View A&M
6.202 Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
6.203 Asa Jackson, CB, Cal Poly
7.232 Darius Fleming, ILB, Notre Dame
7.242 Carson Wiggs, K, Purdue
7.244 Andrew Tiller, OG, Syracuse

I think we're both pretty happy with the results. What are everyone else's thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
Forum Mock (Derza and I)

1.16 Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
2.47 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3.77 Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State
5.154 Andrew Datko OT, Florida State
6.187 Adrian Hamilton, OLB, Prairie View A&M
6.202 Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
6.203 Asa Jackson, CB, Cal Poly
7.232 Darius Fleming, ILB, Notre Dame
7.242 Carson Wiggs, K, Purdue
7.244 Andrew Tiller, OG, Syracuse

I think we're both pretty happy with the results. What are everyone else's thoughts?
Solid. Missing out a speedy WR, RT and a true FS. speedy WR always is available in UDFA. FS can be picked next year. RT remains problematic.

I like Bolden better but Jackson is good enough to replace Revis if Jets move forwards for cost effective. Surely, releasing Cromartie will be only the way to give Revis a fat contract next off season but I like Jackson, not Wilson, step up replacing Revis if he holds out this season.

Fleming is a decent pickup for a potential replacement to Bart Scott after this year.

Ingram can move Pace to SOLB so Jets wont be in hurry with Hamilton's developmental process. I believe Pace willingly restructure the contract, though.

Datko's shoulder kills his 1st round grade. 3 or 4 shoulder surgeries already. damn. He should back up Ferguson perfectly. I don't expect him play RT a full time. UDFA RT to compete with Hunter and Ducasse? eek!!
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for the input Yoto.

I think we have 4 immediate starters:
Ingram- self explanatory
Smith- I agree that he projects better to SS, but he would play FS this year and hopefully over to SS next year. (I don't think Landry is here long term)
Quick- Not 100 % sure if he can play right away but he's talented. He could at least compete for the starting spot.
Wiggs- Better than Folk.

Then we have:
Datko- Probably can't be a starter on the right side. He'd get a chance to compete for it though. Nice backup at LT if anything.
Hamilton: Developmental pass rusher. I could see him being Rex's pet.
Ellison: Great blocking TE. He'll contribute.
Jackson: Small school corner who has the tools to start 1 day. Good special teamer for now.
Fleming: Depth
Tiller: depth

Obviously, this is all hypothetical. Still fun to discuss.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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I like the mock you guys did. I honestly don't think Harrison Smith will be there at that pick because of how shallow the Safety position is this year, but we'll see. I really don't think Quick will be there in the 3rd either, but that might just be because I like him a little more than the guys that are being rated above him.

As for what you said derza...

Honestly, I don't think Mercilus is the pick. He just doesn't seem like their kind of player, IMO. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. A lot has been made of what happened with Gholston and how that shaped their drafting methods for converted OLBs and I just don't think Mercilus would pass the test. And I love his pass rush ability but even I don't know how he would do in a 3-4. Him and Jones, to me, are hard to tell if they would be as effective standing up, though they seem to have that upper echelon level of athleticism and quick-twitch ability to get after the QB. Also, as a side-note, I hate to see Cimini talking about how nice and safe a pick like Upshaw would be, and how they always talk up Ingram's pass rush ability. I worry more because I feel like he's hearing these things from our personnel, but I also worry because I feel like it starts to mislead the Jets faithful that rely on their information. Then, if we don't take those guys and actually make a good pick, they might disapprove.

With Irvin I understand why they wouldn't take him, and they probably aren't even really seriously looking at him, but I just personally think they should look less at positional versatility and more so and what's most important (getting after the QB). The only reason they can't do things like that is because they have no real depth to speak of, but they shouldn't let their poor drafting techniques continue to hamper how the franchise runs things.

I really am terrible at scouting Safeties. I don't really know what makes them good or not. The only times I've been right were with Michael Griffin and Eric Berry being good and Taylor Mays and Michael Huff being bad, I think. Maybe a few others. I just think it's so variable whether they're going to be good or not. So I don't know what to really say about all that, but I do think Harrison Smith is better coming downfield rather than being asked to flip his hips and backpedal covering some receiver, so I would say he's better used as a centerfield type. He's kind of slow, but he's good with the ball in the air. Barron doesn't seem as special to me as people make him out to be. He's good, but I definitely don't think he's the coverage Safety we're looking for. The rest of the guys mentioned don't really do much for me, but I love Brandon Taylor's aggressiveness. It might put him in a bad situation quite a few times, but at least he's quick to the ball and fearless. That at the very least gains some points with me. I honestly would be more inclined for us to draft a big corner and put them at Safety. There isn't really too many good coverage Safeties in this draft (actually, I feel like there never are) and seems like a foregone conclusion that we will be drafting one with the [lack of] roster moves they've done and all that they've been saying (like talking up Eric Smith or thinking about bringing back Leonhard). I don't know where he heard this and he isn't a Jets fan, but one of my friends was telling me he heard a rumor about us trading up and if Richardson isn't there, we might be looking at Claiborne (which I figure would signal Cro to FS). That would be kind of interesting. I don't know what I would think about that. I certainly would be far happier trading up for him than Ingram. What say you guys? I'll try and figure out where he heard that from, but it might just be a random smokescreen.

With the RB situation, I saw from Cimini or one of them saying they were looking for a power compliment in the backfield, so that's what I figured we were looking at. Of the RBs being brought in, it also seems to be that most of the backs are either well-rounded or lean more towards the short yardage situations. While I think we do need a power back (how Greene manages to be mediocre yet good at nothing baffles me), I kind of feel that that was part of the whole spin on the Tebow trade was to use him in those situations. And I just feel like on both sides of the ball we need more explosive athletes, so a guy like James is somewhat I would be on board with. Oh one thing looking back. I lied. I think Richardson is a franchise maker. I was trying to blind myself because I hate drafting an RB early, but he's pretty amazing.

As for with McClellin, his natural pass rush ability seems to surpass the good majority of the prospects we're looking at. He has an awfully quick first step and he has very good functional strength. You might say he's getting overhyped, but he's the only one who truly stood up and played OLB and played it well. Upshaw and Ingram only did it in packages.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Yeah for the mock I think we were both surprised Smith and Quick were there and happy to get good values at positions of need. Pretty happy with how it all came together.

On Mercilus, it's really just a guess more than anything else. Probably to an extent me trying to come up with something besides the extremely obvious seeming trade up for Ingram pick. If they do something unexpected, I think it's a possibility because he fits their athleticism-production criteria. It'll be interesting to see what they do for sure, kind of tough to tell because outside of Ingram we really don't know who they like. Lots of Chandler Jones in mock drafts and rumors, which I really hope doesn't happen. I think that'd be a disaster.

For Irvin I do agree that they should look less at positional versatility and more towards getting to the QB. And I think he's capable of having that positional versatility as well with his athleticism. But I also think physically being strong enough to set the edge in the run game is just a minimum requirement that they'll have for all OLB's, and I agree with it. Last year we saw examples of how teams could break big plays to the outside and take advantage of the struggles that the team's backup OLB's had setting the edge. Taking a guy who's primarily a pass rusher but has the athleticism and hip flexibility to drop occasionally and the strength to set the edge successfully would be ideal, in my eyes. But holding up in the run game is key.

As for safeties, it's tough because I think the team could use a ton of help at that spot so almost anyone is an upgrade. They're certainly tough to scout because you don't know how often the team plans on using them in man and they need to be able to do a lot of things. I like Taylor a lot though. He really fills in the run game, can hit, and doesn't look awful in coverage either. Trent Richardson made him look silly a couple of times, but he made a couple of plays on Trent too and I think that's just something that will happen with an elite, elite back like Richardson. He looked great against Florida too. If they don't take a safety in the first two rounds I'd be pretty happy with him in the third.

Agree on the explosive athletes thing at the RB position. Wouldn't be huge on a power back, that's what Greene is supposed to be. Give me somebody who can hit a home run. I'm not a big David Wilson guy because I think his vision is awful and he fumbles, but somebody like James or Lamar Miller who can take it the distance from anywhere on the field would be great for the offense. It's missing that explosive element and that'd be a nice addition. I love Doug Martin too, but not at 16 and he'll be long gone by the time 47 rolls around.

From what I've watched of McClellin I liked what I saw and he's certainly got a nice combination of athleticism, versatility, and pass rush ability, I'm a little leery of him because he was such a late riser. And maybe that was just on the internet. It seems like 16's a little early, but if he's good then it doesn't really matter.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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With the insane amount of Mocks I keep scrolling through, these are the ten names I see pop up most often for pick #16:

Ingram
Jones
Mercilus
Coples
Upshaw
Floyd
Barron
Reiff
Glenn
Perry

Who would you be the most excited about and why?

Who would you be the most disappointed with and why?
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't think there's much in the way of slam dunk picks that can be made at 16. Guys I'd be okay with are Ingram (versatile athlete who could be a valuable member of the defense but don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher), Barron (should be a rock solid safety but I don't see an elite talent), and Glenn (think he fits what's needed from a RT in the run heavy offense and worst case he's a really good guard, but I'd like to see more tenacity and dominance).

I'd be kind of in between on Mercilus (great athlete and highly productive but stiff, not sure he can cover, not that great against the run, not sure his production was as good as you'd think), Coples (big, strong guy who can get after the QB some and get in passing lanes but not sure where he fits, don't think he's the athlete that he's billed to be, and motor issues), Floyd (great straight line and vertical WR along with blocking, off field issues and I can't get over the toughness question marks), Reiff (seems like he'd be a solid RT, not a tremendous fit as I'd like more dominance in a run blocker, didn't love what I saw on tape and talk he might have to kick inside though), and Perry (great size and explosiveness to mold, didn't really what I watched, stiff and think he lucked into some of his production).

Then I'd be disappointed with Jones (not a ton of production, had an injury, good but not freakish athlete, doesn't move that well, not sure why he's risen so much besides long arms and people trying not to miss out on the next JPP) or Upshaw (wonder if he'll get engulfed by bigger tackles and washed out against the run, offers nothing in coverage, don't see an upgrade over Bryan Thomas).
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Most happy with Floyd. I think he offers the most impact. Most disappointed with Coples or Perry. If Perry was drafted that high he almost assuredly would bust. Coples just looks like a bust, and I honestly don't think he should go to a 3-4 team if he has a chance at succeeding.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I keep going back and forth on Ingram and Floyd. I'd be most excited about either of those picks. Like you said Derza, I like Ingram's versatility and pass rush ability. Matched with Rex Ryan's schemes, maybe the Jets will finally have someone teams are worried about besides Revis on D.

With Floyd, how could you pass on a weapon for Sanchez/Tebow. To me, the WR position was the biggest problem for the Jets last season. One guy who gave up and wouldn't give his all on routes, another old and rusty out of jail, and a rookie. I know Sanchez gets the blame, and deserves a lot of it, but he didn't have a lot of help.

As much as some OL help is still needed, I'd be most disappointed if that is the direction the Jets went with in the 1st round. There is a better chance to pick up an impact OT in the later rounds.

I'd also be disappointed with the Jones pick. I like the story, with the interesting bloodlines and all, but I'd be turned off by the rapid rise up the board recently. I'd like the pick a lot better if it were the second round.

And then there is Coples...... I hear all the negatives, but what if Rex could get the most out of him. Could be the best pick for us.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Completely off topic, but Jayron Hosley is a guy the Jets have supposedly shown interest in, and he apparently failed the combine drug test. Corner from VT, had a great sophomore year but a disappointing junior year and came out anyway, seemed like a day 2 pick prior to this news but I'm guessing might slip some.

With poor depth at the position, if the Jets still have their 5th and 6th round picks I could see them making a move for him on day 3, maybe getting up into the 4th round. They don't seem to care much about failed drug tests (tried trading up for Percy Harvin) and have taken day 3 upside types who might not have lived up to their talent level (McKnight for example).

Pure speculation, but I'm curious to see what they do with these day 3 picks. They won't be worth much in a trade up before maybe the 3rd round, but it doesn't make sense to draft 7 guys in rounds 5-7, so to me it could make sense to target a day 3 guy and go get him. Could see a developmental OL, a RB who slips, or a 4th corner make sense (plus WR, OLB, or S obviously if they don't take at least one of those positions on the first 2 days). Hosley sounds like a logical candidate. Supposedly they like Omar Bolden, ASU corner who missed the year with an injury and would fit the same mold.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I always felt that the Jets willingness to take players with failed drug tests or off the field issues, was because each year we seem to lack a great number of picks and would risk those issues for greater talent. Not because they had some great mentoring program or something.

With Hosley, you'd be getting great value if he slipped. CB's seem deep this year with talent, and I've seen him ranked around 7th best. I'm not too sure he'll slip too far though, only because he hasn't had any other noticeable problems off the field. Attach that he had some concussion issues last year, and maybe that would lead him to slip. With Revis threatening hold out again, and Ryan's love for CB's, adding a player like Hosley late would be a smart move.

What about a player like Burfict? A former 1st round possibility that is now pushed down as far as being rumored to go undrafted. With so many late and sometimes almost useless picks, if he was sitting there, why not take the chance. I mention Burfict because of failing his drug test, like Hosley at the combine. I know Burfict and Hosley shouldn't be comparable, because one has much more off the field issues. But targeting late talent that slipped because of off field issues doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.

They also added that it is common practice for teams to do this leading up to the draft. But it does show that the Jets are in the mix for possibly trading up. It's tough to find a mock that doesn't have Richardson going #4 to the Browns. And there has been a lot of talk about the Vikings shopping their #3 pick with multiple suitors interested. It scares me to think of what we'd have to give up. Maybe possible players with picks? The can have Greene !!!
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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1. Colts- Luck.
2. Redskins- Griffin.
3. Jets (Vikings)- Richardson.


Next 3 teams that may take Richardson.

4. Browns.
5. Buccaneers.
6. Rams.


If Jets want Richardson that bad then they have to trade up to get ahead of those three Richardson suitors to ensure the RB pick. Rex Ryan plans to draft a blue chip pass rusher in 5th round. I guess he doesn't lie.


I am not sure whether or not I cancel the plan for Friday night. Sighs.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.
I hope it's either a) a smokescreen or b) just doing due diligence in case he slips to 7 or something. If he's around at 7 I've got no problem with biting the bullet and going to get him. He's likely the most talented player in this draft and completely changes the offense. But giving up essentially all valuable picks in this draft and next year's #1 is too much.

As a side note, you'd think one year the Jets would be able to smokescreen with ridiculous ease. Things always leak out and everybody buys it because things always leak out. If they let something false leak out for once and play their cards close to the vest it they could really benefit from it, i.e. if they don't really like Ingram but like some other OLB early this year and want to take him but keep it quiet. Or even a tackle or something. Nobody would see it coming.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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I've been hearing that the Jets probably aren't willing to give up as much as they would have to in order to draft Richardson, but they really like him. I guess what we can hope for is a slide to maybe 6 or 7 and swing a trade, but he will probably be gone by then. At this point, I don't really care. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they will trade up at some point, so I would at least like for us to trade up for someone that's really good.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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One guy I don't want is Chandler Jones. He's way to stiff to stand up in the 3-4 and I personally don't see him as being a great pass rusher. I just don't see what the hype is all about with him.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Old School is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they will trade up at some point, so I would at least like for us to trade up for someone that's really good.

Agreed Ginn, although I read on "The Official Site of the New York Jets", a mock by Real Football Services that has the Jets trading up to #12 with Seattle to grab Upshaw. That would be a nightmare !!! Not that I don't trust that Upshaw could be an impact player, but if we trade up, it better be for someone like Ingram, Floyd, Richardson. Otherwise stay put.
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