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Old 02-11-2012, 07:47 PM    (permalink
Prowler
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Originally Posted by Fred Savage View Post
Or do we sign Kevin Smith and hope Leshoure and Best (doubtful) get healthy and produce.
That. Kevin Smith/Best/Leshoure will be serviceable. RB is just too easy to find replacements. Hell, Joique Bell could probably come in and bang out a 100 yard game if we fixed our oline. Keiland Williams even had one good game last year. If we can improve that oline, then we'll be a lot better off than bringing another young running back.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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No more early round picks on RBs!
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I'd be willing to look in the 4th round if the talent level was right. I'd want a criminal type of steal though, like a Pierce or Polk(current late 3rd grade from ESPN) type of guy.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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On a semi-related note, we need an upgrade over Logan. Over the last two seasons he has been awful, makes zero plays and coughs the ball up.

Also, why doesn't Titus return punts, fumble too much? Anyone know?
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I thought Logan was great the year before but this season was sketchy. Just wild speculation on my part but I think the kick off rule was part of it. Its probably easier to return when you get more opportunities in a game and can get in to a rhythm. I think Titus is to valuable now to play special teams. Have a league minimum guy do it.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Logan wasn't bad on kickoffs. It was his atrocious decision-making on when to signal fair catch that has people up in arms.

Logan is not a young guy. The Lions could do better than him.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Logan does well on kickoffs(but had way less opportunities this year) but has one big fumble a year it seems. Punt returns he's not very good at judging when to return or fair catch. And Logan does hold his own in coverage on special teams. Last year at Minnesota big fumble on punt, this year against Atlanta on KO(after a re-kick due to a Falcon offside penalty, which was the difference in the game).
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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That. Kevin Smith/Best/Leshoure will be serviceable. RB is just too easy to find replacements. Hell, Joique Bell could probably come in and bang out a 100 yard game if we fixed our oline. Keiland Williams even had one good game last year. If we can improve that oline, then we'll be a lot better off than bringing another young running back.
Mehhhhh, I don't know about that. I have my doubts that Smith and Best can make through even 2/3's of a season with their history of injuries. I'm praying that Leshoure can come back and be a 14-16 game back for us, otherwise we're in trouble. I'm not even sold on Best being on the roster next season.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Mehhhhh, I don't know about that. I have my doubts that Smith and Best can make through even 2/3's of a season with their history of injuries. I'm praying that Leshoure can come back and be a 14-16 game back for us, otherwise we're in trouble. I'm not even sold on Best being on the roster next season.
That's kinda what I was thinking with Lamichael James. Late 2nd round pick (maybe), very similar to Best coming out of college. Would fill his roll perfectly, open space, catching the ball. I really think Best's career is done. Even if he plays next year, he is one big hit from being done. Although I would prefer to sign a good veteren back. Hopefully Ricky Williams comes out of retirement.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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That's kinda what I was thinking with Lamichael James. Late 2nd round pick (maybe), very similar to Best coming out of college. Would fill his roll perfectly, open space, catching the ball. I really think Best's career is done. Even if he plays next year, he is one big hit from being done. Although I would prefer to sign a good veteren back. Hopefully Ricky Williams comes out of retirement.
I think we need to find a back or two later in the draft or via FA/practice squad. We have too many other pressing holes to fill to spend another high pick on a RB imoSomeone on another thread was mentioning that Thomas Jones could be cut, and I could see him being useful to us for a season along with Mikel. Michael Bush might be available too and he would be a nice addition.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I think we need to find a back or two later in the draft or via FA/practice squad. We have too many other pressing holes to fill to spend another high pick on a RB imoSomeone on another thread was mentioning that Thomas Jones could be cut, and I could see him being useful to us for a season along with Mikel. Michael Bush might be available too and he would be a nice addition.
Sounds good to me.

What does everyone feel about taking a late round pick on Janzen Jackson? Amazing talent, played very good at Tennessee, started as true freshman, however, character issues, was dismissed from school.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Sounds good to me.

What does everyone feel about taking a late round pick on Janzen Jackson? Amazing talent, played very good at Tennessee, started as true freshman, however, character issues, was dismissed from school.
Wonder if we could give him a look as an UDFA?
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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So...what does our draft board look like?

Let other teams draft these guys tier
Andrew Luck
RG3
Justin Blackmon
Courtney Upshaw
Melvin Ingram
----------------

Matt Kalil
Morris Claiborne
Quentin Coples
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin

Dre Kirkpatrick
Janoris Jenkins
Whitney Mercilus
Mike Adams
David DeCastro

Mark Barron
Trent Richardson
Zach Brown
Peter Konz
Nick Perry

Anything past this and I say trade down.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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If Dre Kirkpatrick is still there in the 12-17 area, we should really think about trading up for him.

I'm all for trading up this year.. whether it's to the top for Kalil or Claiborne, or to the middle area for Kirkpatrick or DeCastro.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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If Dre Kirkpatrick is still there in the 12-17 area, we should really think about trading up for him.

I'm all for trading up this year.. whether it's to the top for Kalil or Claiborne, or to the middle area for Kirkpatrick or DeCastro.
I'm all for trading up as well. An impact CB or O-lineman would be sweet.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I would love to trade everything for Kalil, but the Falcons made that way too expensive. We'd have to trade our 1st-4th rounders this year and 1st and 2nd next year. Maybe more because of demand for RG3 and the Vikings needing Kalil. I almost couldn't care less about 3rd and 4th round picks, but 2 first and 2 2nds makes me reluctantly accept that we are probably too far away from him for a trade.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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So...what does our draft board look like?

Let other teams draft these guys tier
Andrew Luck
RG3
Justin Blackmon
Courtney Upshaw
Melvin Ingram
----------------

Matt Kalil
Morris Claiborne
Quentin Coples - Move Down
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin

Dre Kirkpatrick - Move Down
Janoris Jenkins - Move Down
Whitney Mercilus
Mike Adams
David DeCastro - Move up

Mark Barron - Move up
Trent Richardson - Move way up
Zach Brown
Peter Konz
Nick Perry - Move up

Add Kuechly somewhere in the middle tier. I'm still researching Burfict.

Anything past this and I say trade down.
I was working on one of these at work after I saw your post. My thoughts in bold.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I like so many of these guys that its very difficult to actually think about which one I actually want in order. Especially when there's no excuse of "he probably won't be there" to help qualify the rankings. I don't want to rank Blackmon, Upshaw, or Ingram. Blackmon could be the best value, but I'm more than happy with our receiver situation. In fact, I don't want to muck it up with possible unhappiness or rivalries. I don't want to touch Ingram because I think his value is best in a scheme where he can be more of a focus. He should be creatively used as 43 End, DT, and rush LBer. We already have a Suh to play with, are we going to make Gunther design plays to get Suh, Fairley, technically still Corey Williams all involved? I want prototype freaks that can do their base jobs, while we scheme ways for Suh and the others to make impacts. I also feel safer with Cam Johnson or Vinny Curry later than forcing Ingram in round 1. Upshaw is also shorter and although he has great pass rushing talent, I don't want to mess around when we have other options out there. I think he belongs in a 34 and will easily go top 13.

I'm also wiping MLBs off of the first round picture. I know we were terrible against the run, but I think that was scheme. I don't think we should value the position that highly. I think Kuechly would actually be outstanding in our system, but I'd rather have a Zach Brown who can fly and cover in nickel packages. The Packers aren't a threat to run it down our throats, the Bears oline is our *****, and thankfully the Vikings oline and Peterson have some problems too. I'd rather have someone cover Forte and Finley down the field than tackle them one to two yards sooner. We should be a nickle team.

That's also why the corners are higher. I wish I could bring DeCastro higher, but our one building block on oline is already at LG and our tackle situation soon to be desperate. Coples is going to be slightly forgiven due to Butch Davis leaving and also Michael Johnson's play for Cincy has made me believe that talent can be coached up. I also trust that Suh would make him nasty. Mercilus, well I would draft him in the top 15 most years. I don't quite like him as much as I did Orakpo, but he's getting close. He should test well and his toughness and pass rushing ability are there. Nick Perry is great, but he seems like more of a work in progress. I want to see his workouts because I know Mercilus, Curry, and Cam can get it done from day 1.

If I had to bet money on our actual front office's decision on draft day...I'd say that we're walking out with Mike Adams or Zach Brown.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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We should draft someone that can cover a TE. That would help us out quite a bit.
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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We should draft someone that can cover a TE. That would help us out quite a bit.
I think you're forgeting about Amari Speviey, ahahaha.

How do people feel about a guy like George Iloka in the 2nd or 3rd? Haven't seen much of him, but he looks like he could be a potential ball hawk FS, allow Delmas to get in the box.
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Starting to do my youtube scouting, I know, laugh it up, I have a day job. I came away very impressed with Chase Minnifield. Looks like a pure cover corner, would fit with our scheme, how about him at 23 or would we be able to move back for him.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Savage View Post
Starting to do my youtube scouting, I know, laugh it up, I have a day job. I came away very impressed with Chase Minnifield. Looks like a pure cover corner, would fit with our scheme, how about him at 23 or would we be able to move back for him.
I wouldn't mind that pick up at all. Pick up an extra third most likely.

2nd - Minnifield, CB / Boykin, CB - Georgia / Gilmore, CB - USC
3rd - Hosley, CB Va Tech / Casey Heyward, CB - Vandy
3rd - LaMichael James, RB - Oregon / Lamar Miller, RB - MIA/ Doug Martin, RB - Boise / Mike Brewster, C - OSU

I wouldn't mind drafting a CB in the second and third. If we got an extra third I'd be more open to drafting a RB. If we move down out of the range of Mike Adams there won't be another chance to get a LT most likely. Still would like to address DE and LB though. Maybe Doug Hogue can show something in preseason.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm scared of having a team of Wright, Houston, and Smith again. I don't really want 2nd or 3rd round corners. All of those guys were 2nd rounders and I'd rather trade our entire draft for one player that I can count on to be a stud. I'm not fully sold on Dre until I see him workout, but if he performs well then we might need to pull the trigger on him or Jenkins if we want a CB.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story...nfc-north-team

Mike Kurtz is a writer for Football Outsiders.

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Detroit Lions: Offensive line

The book on the 2011 Lions was that they were an awful running team that had to rely on the pass. Indeed, Detroit finished 10th in passing DVOA and right in the middle of the pack in rushing DVOA. However, Matthew Stafford was phenomenal, contributing 1,446 DYAR to the offense, more even than Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning. Stafford also has astoundingly quick feet and surprisingly good pocket presence. His Manning-esque ability to evade pressure contributed greatly to an impressive 10th-ranked ASR for the Lions' offense.

Detroit's maligned running backs played in one of the most even-handed platoons in the league. We at Football Outsiders separate running backs with fewer than 100 rushes from the main list of running backs because of concern about the smaller sample size. No Lions running back ran with enough frequency to reach that threshold. With that caveat, however, Kevin Smith (7.2 percent DVOA) and Jahvid Best (5.8 percent DVOA) were above-average backs in their limited time. Smith, in fact, was precisely as valuable on a value-per-play basis (DVOA) as Pro Bowler and first-team All-Pro Maurice Jones-Drew. Smith was also extremely valuable in the passing game, with a DVOA of 27.2 percent, good for eighth best among running backs.

By demonstrating the utility of the rest of the offense, we expose the severe issues with Detroit's offensive line that conventional statistics obscure. Detroit sported the second-worst offensive line in the league by ALY, and Smith and Best look even more impressive in light of the fact that the Lions' line allowed the defense to stuff 21 percent of all running plays. Although none of these linemen distinguishes himself in any way, center Dominic Raiola and right guard Stephen Peterman played particularly awfully and greatly contributed to Detroit's 28th-ranked power running game.

Tackles Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus, on the other hand, were poor in pass blocking; Backus gave up 7.5 sacks, according to tape analysis, and Cherilus 6.5. Most of these sacks were complete failures to block anybody, including one play when Cherilus was beaten on a two-man rush. Fortunately, Detroit can make immediate repairs in the 2012 draft, which has a number of quality linemen projecting out somewhere around Detroit's 23rd pick. Players such as Wisconsin's Kevin Zeitler and Ohio State's Mike Adams, both of whom could play immediately and be instant upgrades, should still be available.
Some interesting oline analysis.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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That article makes sense. Kevin Smith looked amazing before he injured his ankle. He should be brought back. We have three above average running backs but can't rely on any of them. Sort of a weird situation. The Bell pick up could end up being an under the radar move that pays dividends. He created some buzz last year in training camp for the Saints. I don't think he has a contract for next year but we can keep him because of that exclusive rights mumbo jumbo.
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