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Old 04-20-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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Maybe Stevie Y will ditch us and finally save you guys, like I heard one billion ******* Wings fans ranting about when he was named our GM. In all honesty I don't think the Wings need much, just a few more young and talented players.
The Wings need roster turnover. They're the same team they've been since losing in the finals in 2009. That offseason they lost Hossa, Samuelsson and Kopecky and didn't replace them with capable goal scorers. Every year they've gotten farther away from Cup contention.

I don't think Jimmy Howard is the problem. When healthy, there aren't more than five goaltenders you can say are DEFINITELY better than him. He hasn't stolen them any playoff games, but when a team scores 9 goals in 5 playoff games and has as many egregious defensive breakdowns as the Wings just did, I can't honestly point to goaltending in any seriousness as the aspect to blame.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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The problem for the Wings is there doesn't appear to be much room for roster turnover.

Holmstrom will retire, leaving all of these guys in the fold:

Franzen - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Filppula - Zetterberg - Hudler (UFA, but hard to believe he won't be re-signed)
Cleary - Helm - Miller
Emmerton - Abdelkader - Eaves (should be back from concussion, signed 2 more years)
Jan Mursak
Nyqvist will get a full-time spot on the team.

There's no room for forwards. Cleary and Bertuzzi are expendable if not for the fact that they're signed. No trade value, and that's not the Wings' style anyways. Way too loyal to even consider it.

On defense, I expect Lidstrom to be back and Stuart to depart. Even if Nick retires, the Wings have six defenseman under contract still:

Kronwall-Ian White
Quincey-Ericsson
Kindle-Brendan Smith (who, like Nyqvist, gets a full-time spot)

Big pressure on Ken Holland to change this team significantly enough.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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I love Datsyuk...*shudders*...and it makes me feel dirty to say, but there's a legit case to make for guys like Toews, Stamkos, Giroux and even Kovalchuk, Ovechkin. Personally I take Dats over everyone except Stamkos, Crosby and Malkin.

PS I just want to congratulate Quincey on giving the Avs more than we could've every hoped from him this season, an awesome winger and a Red Wings first round loss. I'm pretty pleased with this season.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 04-20-2012, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Do you guys think Luongo is traded this summer? And if so where and for what?
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Do you guys think Luongo is traded this summer? And if so where and for what?
Vincent Lecavalier in a swap of absurd contracts. With some odds n ends.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Vincent Lecavalier in a swap of absurd contracts. With some odds n ends.
Could make sense if the Bolts have no ambition of getting past the first round ever again, i guess.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Crosby and Malkin are the only ones I'd firmly put ahead of Pavel.

This is just in the framework of this asinine argument I'm in where the guy says playoff performance is all that matters. Stamkos is on a lousy team that missed the playoffs, 13 points in 18 playoff games last year. Giroux is excellent, but doesn't have the track record of Pavel. Small sample size comes into play. Toews is certainly capable of being great, but has the same stats as Pavel facing elimination tomorrow. Joe Thornton is famously absent in the playoffs. The Sedins? No.

Man, people are dumb.
**** track record. If it was about track record, Detroit wouldn't have just been knocked out of the playoffs. We've been watching Giroux's growth for years. Guy is a flat out stud and there is no reason to discount him.

And I won't say you can't win with Howard, but I still think you overrate him.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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I think the big reasons the Wings lost were because they were missing Helm, Franzen didn't make an impact, and poor defense. They were terrible at picking up the late guy to the play all series.

Radulov is pretty beastly. If he starts to finish watch out. Weber and Rinne won the series for Nashville.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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**** track record. If it was about track record, Detroit wouldn't have just been knocked out of the playoffs. We've been watching Giroux's growth for years. Guy is a flat out stud and there is no reason to discount him.

And I won't say you can't win with Howard, but I still think you overrate him.
If I want to win right now, I might still take Datsyuk over Giroux for this year, maybe next. Building a team, well of course give me Giroux.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Could make sense if the Bolts have no ambition of getting past the first round ever again, i guess.
Playoffs would be progress for a team who's second best player is now 36. *shrug* Stamkos is a beast but Yzerman is driving that team around him into the ground unless their prospects hit in a big way. I just hope he has the good sense not to let himself get Iginla'd by TB.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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**** track record. If it was about track record, Detroit wouldn't have just been knocked out of the playoffs. We've been watching Giroux's growth for years. Guy is a flat out stud and there is no reason to discount him.

And I won't say you can't win with Howard, but I still think you overrate him.
I think it's crazy that I've had to play the role of Howard defender tonight (not here, but elsewhere in discussions, mostly on Twitter). I'm not his biggest supporter, but I know damn well he's not to blame for the Wings last 2 playoff exits.

And I love Giroux. Keep in mind I only brought this "top 5 forward" discussion up based on the idiotic premise of this guy I was arguing with. He didn't even name Giroux as a better player (that should give you an idea of his intelligence).
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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If I want to win right now, I might still take Datsyuk over Giroux for this year, maybe next. Building a team, well of course give me Giroux.
Hard to argue with this. I don't know how good of a defender or faceoff man Giroux is cause I don't watch him enough. That's usually the tie-breaker I use to elevate Pavel above equally gifted offensive players.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Giroux's defensive game is quite good.

At this point you could argue either side, not taking age into account. Giroux has already surpassed Datsyuk offensively. Of course Datsyuk is one of the best 2 way forwards in the game but Giroux is not far behind in that respect either.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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If I want to win right now, I might still take Datsyuk over Giroux for this year, maybe next. Building a team, well of course give me Giroux.
I wasn't even specifically trying to compare the two, I just think it's foolish to use that as a base when a player is as good as Giroux. That said, give me Giroux, either way.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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I wasn't even specifically trying to compare the two, I just think it's foolish to use that as a base when a player is as good as Giroux. That said, give me Giroux, either way.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SuperMcgee again.

Dammit McGee, stop being so awesome! I think it's time I bring back that Giroux sig I had made when I first joined DC.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Saw some poll from a Philly newspaper website that says 72% of Flyers fans now expect to lose this series in 7.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Saw some poll from a Philly newspaper website that says 72% of Flyers fans now expect to lose this series in 7.
Why is that? Fleury not sucking balls is not something that will repeat itself over and over.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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My Sharks have been getting murdered by the Blues penalty kill & power plays.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...ent-power-play

Everybody said the Blues play the best team overall defense in the NHL, & they were right.

No joy in San Jose this weekend as the Sharks continue their playoffs woes

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Old 04-21-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Wings special teams were bad all season. I think they finished in the low 20s in both categories, which is completely unheard of for the Red Wings over the last 15 years.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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soooo 25 games for Torres lawl
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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The inconsistency of Shanny is laughable.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Shanahan has the worst job in sports.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:45 PM    (permalink
Job Reborn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
Shanahan has the worst job in sports.
Possibly, as anything he does will be wrong in the eyes of half the fans. Still, it doesn't change the fact that he's not very good at it.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:49 PM    (permalink
Jensen
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lol, Torres gets more games than Bertuzzi for ending Moore's career and more than Matt Cooke.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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lol, Torres gets more games than Bertuzzi for ending Moore's career and more than Matt Cooke.
I'm not defending Shanahan's decision or Bertuzzi's act on Moore, but I don't think Todd had a previous track record like Raffi Torres does.

Torres is a scape goat for the "new" NHL, but he's probably a good choice of scape goats, comparatively.
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